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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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Comments

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Whereas other reviews, such as in USA Today, Car and Driver, etc.... have lauded the Tribeca... are you seeing the point- Hometown Herald is the Detriot News. (Also note that the Tribeca wasnt actually given ratings in that article, its so very thorough and exhaustive).

    ~alpha
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That 2nd article only goes to show their bias...

    They go way out of their way just to try to create "The Next Aztek" to draw attention away from that bomb.

    Look at this photo and tell me the Tribeca looks more like an Aztek than it does an Alfa Romeo.

    Tribeca sales continue to grow and it's been far from a bomb for Subaru.

    -juice
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I can tell you the "HomeTown team" doesn't guarantee them to be biased favorably towards domestics. I follow that publication closely and that's a common thinking, but the car industry is rooted there for the most part, so obviously they have more stories to publish because of the industry... This is the same publication that usually allocates a little square at the bottom of the page when Honda/Toyota have a recall, as so many others do..

    Now if you want to see a publication biased favorable to domestics (yes, there's one that actually exsists), that would be the Free Press' reviewer Mark Phelum.... Ironically, all the vehicles tested that other publications rate lower in the scales, they happen to love, prize and sing praises over it. In fact, reading his "Top 10 in each segment", reads like a GM brochure. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When Honda had the engine fire issue with the CR-V they plastered a flaming CR-V right on their front page.

    A very small number were affected, there are recalls on domestics that create fires all the time yet you don't see huge front-page layouts like that.

    They see blood, they jump at the opportunity.

    -juice
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    So one or 2 stories, that contradicts the personal biases that some people will have, and that dooms their opinions forever? Doesn't seem very fair. This same publication has plastered Ford, GM, DCX recalls as the first story, WHILE displaying the Honda/Toy ones in a small article elsewhere.

    Or the "Wave up, wave down" approach....

    http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0509/07/01-307006.htm

    First they mention the Ford recall (understandable since it covers more vehicles), then briefly mentions a Toyota recall of almost 1MIL vehicles...just 2 paragraphs which hardly detail which vehicles specifically it covers, just a vague general statement (eh, some 4Runners, Pickups, old T-100s, etc).

    Then picks up again on the Ford recall and goes on and on.

    And this coming from the same publication that is supposedly biased, when it gave a good review on the Fusion and it seems to contradict the perceptions some have about other automakers of choice.

    Now on another story...there's many other recalls announced as well days ago which didn't even make it into the headlines of other publications, nor Detroit News.

    http://www.cars.com/go/news/Story.jsp?section=news&subject=recent&story=090605storybAN&ref- erer=&aff=national

    A bunch of Hyundai's (including the new 2006 Sonata which receives 2 recalls... and Tucson) already being recalled, some Kias's thrown into the mix as well. Nissan had one as well on the Murano and the Maxima...Some Inifiniti models also affected.

    Even Toyota joins in with a recall on the Tundra as well the prior story posted today didn't even mention the 2nd recall...(and a few other resources I have been following as well didnt' even mention the 2nd recall). And that earned it just 2 sentences, at the end of this article. Of course, Toyota public relations will brush it off and call it a "Consumer Satisfaction Advisory" and not a recall. ;)

    Now in relation to the CRV's bursting in flames, a small number HAVE exploded, but it affects ALL the CRV's, not just a few. It's a design issue, it's just a problem IF/WHEN the oil isn't replaced in the exact methods as described by Honda's technicians. Meaning, years after when it's paid for, and chances are people are not going to the dealership to replace their oil because they just don't care or don't wish to deal with the expense, will take it upon themselves to replace it (like most of us do), then we'll see a rise and more reports of it.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    I wonder why they decided to cut costs so severely that they couldn't include an 1/8th inch input jack for a portable aux audio device?
    Nevermind expensive things like navigation and bluetooth.

    Other things needed are optional VSC and a sportshift automatic so you can control gears better then just Drive and a Low gear that's really multiple gears you can't control.
  • xj220xj220 Member Posts: 78
    I'm no Honda fan, but the first time I saw the Fusion I thought this.
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    Wow, there is quite a bit of similarity between the Fusion and Prelude's lights. Thanks for posting that pic!

    But anyway, a lot of companies today mimic the design of other vehicles. Examples? Look at the taillights of a Grand Cherokee, and then a Torrent. Or, better yet compare the taillights of an Azera with an Accord. The Accord will be refreshed for 2006 with new taillight design, so that's going to change.

    And the Hyundai Sonata's designers wanted to mimic the Audi A6, and The Five Hundred designers probably wanted to go for a Passat/A6 look as well, with the curved roof.

    And take a look at the new 2007 Mercedes S Class. The interior is a virtual clone to that of the BMW 7 Series.

    Bottom line? Sure the lights do look similar, although since the overall look of a Fusion is so much better than a Prelude, I don't think most people are going to care or notice. Thanks anyway for that pic, I would never have noticed otherwise. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Only the lights, and even then mostly the front lights. The rears are just triangles, which you'll find on approximatly half the cars on the market. And they're clear so they really end up looking nothing at all like that Prelude.

    On top of all that, those are two different generation Preludes!

    So really all you have is the basic front headlight shape.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Five Hundred designers probably wanted to go for a Passat/A6 look as well

    The designer is actually the same person. J. Mays moved from Audi to Ford.

    -juice
  • xj220xj220 Member Posts: 78
    Yes, they are different gens, but it's still a Honda. In fact, the taillights look more like an older gen Accord. Also there's more to it than just the headlights/tailights, but they are more subtle (not to mention the Prelude is a 2-dr sporty coupe, so there will obviously be differences).

    My point is that the new Fusion looks like it wanted to blend in with the Hondas and the Toyotas, just like Hyundai and some others are doing. Could you blame them? When you ask the avg person what they think about Accords or Camrys, they'll probably tell you build quality and reliability. The domestics (along with Hyundai) need to change that perception -- real or not.
  • xj220xj220 Member Posts: 78
    I meant change the perception that they are inferior to Honda and Toyota -- real or not.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't think Ford tried to copy the Prelude's design, that model sold so poorly it was discontinued.

    Ford's been doing New Edge for a while now. Their light is more tapered, flaring out towards the outer sides, and the detail of the light is also quite different up close. The tails are Altezzas, so that might have been going for the import look in general, but I still don't think they copied Honda.

    For the USA, it's a new look, but look at the euro Ford Mondeo, profile looks similar. Also look at the (new) euro Ford Focus and Ford Fiesta. There is a family resemblance there, we're just not used to seeing those models.

    So when it replaces the Taurus, sure, it looks like no other Ford to Americans.

    -juice
  • f111df111d Member Posts: 114
    I think we are going to see similarities, there only some many ways to put workable headlights and tail lights on usable shapes. Of course Pontiac tried, we all know how scary that was? It didn't even qualify as modern art?
    The more I look at it the more I like the look, hopefully it means it won't get old so quickly???
    Paul
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    BMW 6 series completely copied the Pontiac Aztek. Look at them.

    -juice
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    http://www.carsmart.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_int/722">link title

    That was a great review. I have been less interested in the Fusion due its weird styling, considering instead one of the other mid-sized cars, but I am really intrigued by the handling reported by the review - and by the quietness of the car. I love my Focus for its great Euro handling, but wouldn't mind a slightly quieter car. The Fusion with a stick shift and 4 cylinder engine might fill the ticket for me. I wish they included ABS and side airbags, though.
  • shopperx8shopperx8 Member Posts: 8
    I know that the Fusion is a stretched Mazda6 and that the Mazda CX-7 is based on the Mazda6. Where does that leave the Ford Edge, or the Lincoln Aviator for that matter? Will they be based on the Fusion, in which case they will be larger than the CX-7, or will they simply be based on the Mazda6, and therfore roughly the same size as the CX-7?
    Does anybody know? perhaps ANT?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The Ford "Edge" (Name not set in stone, just an insider nickname), CX-7, and Aviator are built upon the CD3 (Fusion, Zephyr, Milan), which is an improved Mazda6 platform. Improved in the sense of stretched (as the Fusion was) and improved side impact performance as well. So it's the same, just improved.

    "My point is that the new Fusion looks like it wanted to blend in with the Hondas and the Toyotas"

    Trust me when I tell you, the design team did not at all use anything in relationship to Honda/Toy for even one micron of influence when it went for styling inspiration. Audi/VW, MBenz, Ford of Europe vehicles, Pinifarina were the major influential brands.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Interesting article about design on Fusion/Zephyr

    http://tinyurl.com/c9728
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Thank goodness Fusion doesn't borrow styling influences of Camry or Accord, as both of these leave much to be desired, styling wise. Camry especially looks to be bulbous and unwieldy. Current Accord is a bit better than Camry, but still not a great looker. Their Acura versions have much better styling, perhaps on purpose. Previous Accord generations were nicer, in my opinion.

    I think Ford got the styling just about right. Some will complain about a bit too much chrome "bling", but be assured the critics would be howling if Fusion came out more understated. Then they all would be howling about how Ford introduced another anonymous rental special, and the rants would go on for years.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I didn't realize Ford would get a version. I only knew about the CX7 and Aviator.

    They should make it big, they have to distinguish it from the Escape.

    -juice
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    The Fusion reviews remind me of the old cereal commercial - even Mikey likes it. It seems as if the factory will indeed be running at its 300,000 vehicle annual capacity.

    The 3.0 V6 seems just right for this car - 221 HP and 205 Ft. Lbs in a 3,280 Lb. SEL is plenty, and 21 City and 29 highway MPG on regular is good and right for the times. By the way, it is an efficient engine:

    2006 Accord 3.0V6 - 81.3 HP and 70.3 Ft. Lbs. per Liter
    2006 Fusion 3.0V6 - 73.67 HP and 68.33 Ft. Lbs. per Liter
    2006 Altima 3.5V6 - 71.4 HP and 71.1 Ft. Lbs. per Liter
    2006 Sonata 3.3V6 - 71.2 HP and 68.5 Ft. Lbs. per Liter
    2006 Camry 3.0V6 - 63.3 HP and 65.7 Ft. Lb.s per Liter
    2006 Malibu 3.5V6 - 57.4 HP and 63.1 Ft. Lbs. per Liter

    Did anyone else notice that the dealer ordering guide indicates that Ford expects half of the Fusions sold to be equipped with the V6? Based on my observations, that is a far higher percentage than for the competitors sold in California. Anthony (ANT14) - isn't that a far higher percentage than for the Altima, Accord, and Camry?
  • todd11todd11 Member Posts: 23
    The season premiere of Autoweek Sep. 9th will have a first drive of the 2006 Ford Fusion.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    I think you mean the season premier of Motorweek, the PBS series on television, right? Autoweek is a weekly magazine published by Crain Communications of Chicago, the same company that publishes Automotive News and Advertising Age. Motorweek is not affiliated with Crain Communications, or vice versa.

    You also said will on September 9. Wasn't that yesterday?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Because I saw Motorweek Wed night and they didn't have a Fusion.

    Engine power and torque are good for a 3.0l, but remember competitors are for the most part using bigger engines. Plus you have to account for weight and gearing.

    So far 0-60 estimates are in the low 8s range, that's certainly not slow by any means but most competitors are quicker. Accord, Altima, and even Sonata are now down near 7.

    -juice
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    has one. A Milan that is. Black and fully loaded premier. Looks really sweet!!! I must say this car looks way better than I thought it would.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    A couple of people have mentioned that certain optional equipment should be made standard,

    ABS
    Traction Control,
    Side Curtain Airbags.

    The fact that this equipment is optional is going to give Ford dealers a kind of back door advantage.

    The window sticker markup on the base MSRP without options is around 7% and the window sticker markup on optional equipment is 13%. (not counting holdback)

    So if a customer comes in and wants a car with a lot of options, there is more markup in that car and hence more room for the dealer to move to "make a great deal"

    It doesn't bother me that equipment is optional if the dealers actually order it and make it available.

    I just get mad when its impossible to find a car with the options that I want. For instance try to find ABS, Traction Control, or Side Airbags on a new Focus.

    Very difficult.

    I think Fusion is going to be very successful with pushing the Value for the Dollar.

    It is my experience that Ford shoppers get very adamant about not having to pay for equipment they do not want. This IMHO is why there are no Ford models with Standard Moonroofs.

    Some people are griping about some options that are not available at on all the Fusion.

    Manumatic transmission
    Navigation
    Stability Control
    mini-plug for iPod
    Rear Seat DVD

    The last 2 I dismiss completely because they are easily installed aftermarket. Navigation is also available aftermarket. I think people need to keep in mind that this is still a Ford.

    Ford has the best selling SUV 14 years and counting, the Explorer, and 2006 is the FIRST year for factory navigation. Do Ford customers really want a $2,000 navigation system in the $18,000 car? (over 10% of the total cost of the car)

    Most of the Ford customers I get look at a manumatic transmission in one of my pre-owned cars and go "what the heck is that?" not COOL, but "Oh I don't need that."

    As for stability control, you just try to explain that to someone.

    Well, there is a yaw sensor in the vehicle that measures actual cornering force and then compares that to expected cornering force based on speed, steering input and throttle position and uses that to determine whether the vehicle is experiencing understeer or oversteer and then activates the brake for the appropriate wheel to counteract said over or under steer and can even reduce the throttle.......

    I usually just get nodding heads.... and I can almost hear the customer thinking..(ok how much is this going to cost me for something I can't understand?).

    Incidently, if anyone can explain how stability control works better than that without sounding to simplistic, please let me know.

    The bottom line is that THIS IS JUST A FORD! A midsize family sedan for people who already own a Ford F-150 or Explorer (thats alot of people), for one of the 50,000 people per year who trade their Mustang for a midsize, or a for one of the people that trade up from their Focus.

    This car will be successful if it just conquers FORD/CHEVY CUSTOMERS switching Cam/Cord customers will be GRAVY.

    Ford has the BEST dealer network in the country and we will sell the hell out of these cars.

    Mark
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    No. You do not know that an AUX input can be installed "easily" or at all on a Fusion. Years after it's debut, Ford F-150 owners are still stuggling to find a way to install an AUX input in 2004 and newer trucks.
    It would have only cost a tiny amount of money per car in mass production to add an AUX input at the factory during assembly vs the cost and labor required to attempt this after the car is built and delivered. They can't say that the cost of a simple AUX jack during the design and assembly would have priced the car out of the market.

    There is no need to try to explain VSC in the detail you did to people who don't want to understand it in that detail. You can just say it stands for vehicle stability control and it helps to greatly reduce the chance of the car skidding out of control or rolling over. If they want to know deep technical details, then they can ask or look it up.

    It doesn't even need a super-fancy manumatic, but it does at least need more than just Drive and Low so you can hold a gear without the transmission hunting back and forth unable to "decide" which gear it should be at certain speeds especially on hills. At least an overdrive lock-out plus Low 2 and Low 1 should be on all and a full sportshift would be "nice to have" at least on the top of the line model.

    Every review I have read on the Fusion comments on the the transmission and how you have zero control to hold any gear since the car will still shift several gears even when you put it in Low.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    http://www.autobytel.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_page_order_in- t/1/article_id_int/722

    As for an aux imput on a 2004 F-150, here is a link to the page ath crutchfield.com showing the first 20 of the 83 aftermarket head units they carry with AUX jacks that fit the 2004 F-150. Prices start at $79.99.

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pbT6Q2bgMGd/cgi-bin/prodgroup.asp?g=300&avf=Y&nvpair=AG_Gen- eral%5FFeatures%7CYCAUX%5FInput#see_all

    Mark
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    The link to Crutchfield doesn't work. I was referring to the new style F-150 anyway. There was a 2004 F-150 "Heritage" model (old body style) that the link may be referring to that did not have the problem with installing AUX adapters aftermarket. The problem installing AUX adapters happened after a change in the radio design and wiring and only with the new-style F-150s.

    Even if an AUX adapter were available now for the new F-150s, it was a 2 year wait for it now and $79 and up hardware costs plus time and labor to install vs maybe less than $5 if the car had been designed with it to begin with.
    The same or worse problems may exist with the Fusion's radios.
    Why make excuses for them? It would have been so cheap for them to have just made an AUX input a standard feature on a brand-new design.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Mark - How about explaining stability control using something like:

    You know how ABS helps you stop and traction control helps you go...Well this is a safety feature that helps prevent losing control of the vehicle (or it helps prevent skidding/sliding and rollovers). Like traction control it also helps you go in the snow, only it is better because it also helps you maintain control (so you don't slide off the road like all those 4WD vehicles). It actually works by using a number of sensors and applying the brakes to individual wheels in a way that will stop the skid and help you maintain control of the car.

    In addition to reading about it, one thing that sold me on the value of this is a guy I know who has always said "gotta have 4 wheel drive" admitted that his new honda minivan with stability (and with only 2 wheel drive) was better in winter conditions than his 4WD SUV.
  • todd11todd11 Member Posts: 23
    Yes johnclineii, thanx for the correction. You can go to the Motorweek website for details. The broadcast window of each episode begins on friday. It's the start of a new season, and reruns popup during the following week like on public television and I think the Speed Channel as well?

    I
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    The order guide for the Zephyr version of the car indicates that Ford only expects 15% of the people buying the most expensive / fanciest version of the car to order it. There are three excellent alternatives:

    1) Paper maps / map books
    2) A laptop with a map DVD and/or a cellular internet connection, which also has the advantage of having a radically larger screen than any navigation unit, all for less than the cost of teh navigation unit (making all of the other computer functions free)
    3) An aftermarket navigation unit, which has the advantage of being easy to move from car to car, but the disadvantage of having a tiny screen
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Yes the V6 model will account for a majority of the sales, why ? Research shows that most buyer's don't mind paying a few hundred more for a V6, which it's few economy is not that different from the 4 cylinder and using regular fuel. Some other manufacturer's will group their V6's with more expensive packages, and require premium. Therefore the take-rate on the V6 will be equivilant, to other's 4 cylinder take rate.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Maybe only 15% of people need navigation because the rest always drive in the same area.
    If you need navigation, those alternatives are poor and dangerous, not "excellent."
    The laptop and portable units will go flying around in a crash, possibly impaling or killing you when the airbags go off and paper maps are extremely dangerous to try read while driving.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Yes, besides allowing people to buy a V6 Fusion without paying for all kinds of other things which they do not want, Ford is very wise to allow people who want the top of the line SEL Fusion to have cloth seats if they prefer them, and to not have a sun roof if they don't want it.

    It is much more difficult for me to understand why antilock brakes are optional, since no human can stop a car without them as well as a car with them.

    If the Ford dealers are flexible, and are willing to obtain or order cars equipped as people want them, the additional flexibility will be an enormous advantage over Toyota and Honda.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    I thought it was obvious that a laptop or paper maps would be used by a passenger or a driver who has stopped the car. A driver who is looking down at (or should I say squinting to read and interpret) a navigation screen while driving is an unsafe driver.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    the car looks really good(at least it black). i think it will do really well. i'm trying to figure out how to fit it into the fleet. :cry:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • todd11todd11 Member Posts: 23
    Motorweek will have a full blown road test of the Fusion on Sep. 30, 2005. As I mentioned before the Sep. 9th date is only a First Drive Intro.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    http://www.boston.com/cars/articles/2005/09/11/fords_latest_fuses_some_fine_features/

    This one's last line bears quoting:

    "If you are looking at a Camry or an Accord or a Volkswagen Jetta or a Nissan Altima, add a Ford to your shopping list for an infusion of American car-building at its finest."
  • stuartboniastuartbonia Member Posts: 56
    My TV guide shows the 2006 Fusion piece will be on MotorWeek today, Sept 11th at 10 a.m.. It looks like it will be repeated a few times during the week.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Are there any suspension differences between the Fusion and Milan?
  • ronstrazzronstrazz Member Posts: 1
    :confuse: I'm employed at a Ford dealership in Ohio and ordered a Fusion SE V6 with the Safety & Security Package last week. The mid-line SE V6 with minimal options seems to be the best value. The only thing that concerns me is that the SEL is only way to get the 225/50x17 Michelin tires ( 6 AND 4 cylinder ). The S and SE only have 205/60x16 Continental tires. Ford should have put the beefier tires and bigger wheels on ALL 6 cylinder Fusions, not just the Flagship model. It will be an "interesting" drive. As a side note, I'm wondering why most manufacturers now skip speedometer digits in the 10MPH increments. Instead of quickly readable 10-20-30-40-50, etc. they read 20--40--60--80-- etc.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    I saw two Mercury Milans in New York City when I was there over the weekend. Both had manufactuers plates and were there for some sort of promotion parked in front of the hotel where we were staying in Times Square. So I got a GOOD look inside and out (the manufacturers rep was there and when I showed an interest he let me get it in, etc). This car is a winner and I'm sure the sister FUSION will be also. Absolutely CAMCORD competition. Ford can "come back" to the midsized car market with this providing the quality is as good as touted. Congrads Ford for getting it right!
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