My 2003 Jetta is consuming oil

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Comments

  • giniminginimin Member Posts: 4
    so we brought the car in at 1084 mi... we had a trip so we went a little over. the dealer checked the car and we were down 1 1/4 quart of oil!!! so of course they inform me that's BAD!!! duh. I have been telling them for 3 years/ 38000 mi that it was bad and they reply "that's normal" You see my wife loves volkswagons or maybe loved? She has had 6 of them and no complaints. we had an 88 jetta and sold it to a friend with 195,000mi with no oil burning, no problems other than a water-pump and timing belt and it was GAS not diesel and its still running mint!! So now they say another 1000 mi test and its going in they don't need a third. they topped off the oil and we are in the early miles of this test. Now I have two gripes with them... 1-does this cause damage to anything other than the rings (Thats the fix for VW) and 2- my wife does not have a car for 2-3 weeks......... That's not sitting too well with us because now I have to rent a car for up to 3 weeks!!!!!!! I don't see how that's fair, it's not my fault the little gremlins in white jackets said these cars were good for sale!!!!!!
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    but IMHO it was close to the edge. most cars have something close to a quart of reserve oil to guard against "some idiot user" running it dry, that's the mandatory ADD mark on the dipstick. you can run a little lower without damage, but at some point, depending on the car, you don't have the crankshaft touching oil any more.

    that's bad, because the lower engine is splash lubricated in all engines I know about. that means crank, rods, pins.

    if you didn't have noise, you probably didn't have damage... but it's a good thing you're only going through another cycle of this.

    I would suspect that since they have to disassemble the lower engine to get the pistons out and change rings that they will gauge the crank bearings anyway, and it's hard to avoid seeing the wrist pins when they come out. if additional damage is caused by their sealed testing, they should be on the hook for it.

    disclaimer: but they don't ask me for my advice.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    one quart of oil consumed every 867.2 miles! (I used my calculator). That is almost twice the consumption rate of my 1/4-million-mile Integra...I can't believe they could be building them that badly, but here's the proof...

    It seems to me they should have to provide a loaner car once they have seen that there is most likely a problem that will require warranty repair.

    swschrad/other knowledgeable parties: if you had to do one or the other (gun to your head or whatever) would you overfill the oil half a quart, or let the oil level fall a half quart below the ADD line on the dipstick?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    but you're talking about two quarts of oil difference between the examples, so it's hard to see how I'd be in that position. I have been known before a trip to pour in 2/3 quart to top mine off....
  • giniminginimin Member Posts: 4
    my wife's idea of an indicator is to tell me the car is ticking!!! has happened 5 or 6 times in 3 years. one time we were on a long trip to another state and I heard it and pulled off to a rest stop and topped it of with 2 1/2 qaurts of oil! How bad is that to the lower engine? You see, we bought a new car so that we didn't have to go under the hood. At no time did anyone or anything tell us to add oil between oil changes........ although I did figure on adding oil for the first 10,000 mi as new engines burn a little as rings, valves, etc seat themselves. but, come on this is ridiculous..... they say I can trade it in, but I paidit off in 14 months............ now I get a new car and $12,000 in payments????? this stinks!!!!! I can't believe there is no recourse, better business bureau or attorney general? While I'm rambling; has anyone noticed how the fabric on the seats are just like giant lint collectors??????
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    And the VW guys have you if you try to use the "I didn't know you're supposed to check your oil" line.

    Every manual I've ever seen says you should check your oil every time you fill up with gas.

    What year and model is your VW?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I don't think two quarts down will damage an engine under normal driving. The engine doesn't use all its oil at once anyway. You might run a touch hotter but as long as you have oil pressure you should be okay.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    if you're driving up and down hills, you are not doing yourself any favors under those conditions at all.

    I don't know where folks get the idea that they don't have to check levels and pressures any more. if anything, you have to rigorously check them more often yourself, because the old-time full-service attendants who filled your tank, washed the windows, checked the oil, tested the tires, and accidentally let the lapdog out have been gone for 20 years and longer.

    it's all on your shoulders, now. "no scheduled maintenance for 100,000 miles" has an asterisk next to it in the ads. when you read the fine print, it says, "HAH! caught you!"

    I've said it before and will say it again until somebody finally laughs... if you get your auto maintenance advice from The Onion ("Oil is a valuable resource. Don't add any more until you are out.") you belong in the mansion with the nutty publisher emeritus Zweibel.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    probably DO think that "no scheduled tune-ups until 100K miles" means they don't have to do any maintenance before that mileage...

    I know you are supposed to be checking your oil very regularly (and I do) but if the car is pretty new and you have been doing the oil changes at the recommended intervals, you might be able to make a case that the car shouldn't have been that low in normal useage...myself, I'd be pretty ticked if my car used even one quart of oil between changes before it turned over 50K miles.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    and it amazes me how many people believe that they should never have to open their hood.

    They are thoroughly insulted when something breaks, thinking a vehicle should be perfect.

    If vehicles were perfect, over a million ASE-certified technicians would be out of work.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Burning some oil is quite normal. Lots of cars regularly burn oil. Speak to any Ferrari, Porsche, Cadillac Northstar or Corvette LS-1 owner and they will probably tell you this.

    If you are upset about burning a quart of oil in say 3,000 to 5,000 miles, you are upset about nothing, quite frankly. It's a self-created worry with no actual bad consequences.

    Even consumption greater than this only indicates that you raise your level of attention. When it drops to the quart every 1,500 or 1,000 miles, then you go to "orange alert". Even then, if the car has lotsa miles, you may not have a real worry.

    Bottom Line: "oil burning may or may not be a symptom of a a disease".
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    there, now I have come up with one I/they can leave up.

    I just can't fathom somebody spending tens of thousands of dollars for a box of bolts and not read the (fine) manual that says how the features work, and how to keep any part of it working longer than a few months.

    it's just foreign to every fiber of my being that it's not read.

    now I need therapy... ;)
  • vwsucks1vwsucks1 Member Posts: 11
    I have a 2000 Jetta. I was burning 1 quart of oil every 900 miles. The car is now on its second set of rings and still burns 1 quart every 2000 miles. As far as I am concerned a car should not burn an ounce of oil. In between rings they made me wait 10,000 miles because they said the rings need to seeth. Regardless, if the rings seethed or not it should not burn 1 quart every 900 miles. I even had a tech tell me that the bottom of the groove in the dipstick is only a half quart. I was not born yesterday. They have played games along the way. During a few of the consumption tests they would overfill with oil, so I would comeback and it would be only 1/2 quart low which they would tell was normal. To top it off they only gave me a rental car for the time they were installing the second set of rings. AWFUL CAR AND AWFUL CUSTOMER SERVICE.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    but SOME oil consumption, proven by engineers and long-time car guys here, is OK; in fact, it's very normal.

    Note I said SOME.
  • fish8fish8 Member Posts: 2,282
    Sorry to hear about your VW experience. Do you still own your VW? I guess I should feel lucky that I have not had any problems with my '02 2.0.
  • vwsucks1vwsucks1 Member Posts: 11
    Yes, unfortunatley I still do have the Jetta. I went to the dealer Thursday morning to show them that the car was still burning oil. It was a quart down after less than 2000 miles. The service tech once again tried telling me that when the oil is below the groove in the dipstick it is only half a quart, as I watched him pour a quart into the vehicle. I argued with him and he just kept saying that it was a half quart, and the service manager said it did not matter anyways because the new rings were still seething. A car should not burn a quart of oil in 2000 miles while the rings are seething. They are just playing games because they do not want to put a new motor in the car. I would have gotten rid of the car a long time ago but since these cars have this problem the trade in value has dropped like a rock and with the lemon laws in MA I can't sell it. Therefore I owe more than I can get for a trade and cannot afford to take the $4,000 hit. To anyone thinking of buying a Jetta, or a VW for that matter, do yourself a favor and don't!!
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    The car is OK to burn a quart in 1,000 miles during normal operation, so to burn a quart in 2,000 miles while breaking in new rings is perfectly normal. It's not only normal, it's well within the manufacturer's specs.

    You may be upset, but for people to tell you that cars don't burn oil is ridiculous - you've gotten some bad information and are reacting to it quite badly.

    Get the single espresso instead of the triple, buy some oil, check it like you should, and enjoy your car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Well, if the rings are truly "seating", this shouldn't take too long, so the oil consumption should start to improve. Really though the new rings should be doing their job in a couple thousand miles.

    A quart of oil every 2,000 miles is okay, and pretty normal for high speed driving, not saying it's great for a new car but not a sign of disaster coming either.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    for most VW gas engines....
  • vwsucks1vwsucks1 Member Posts: 11
  • vwsucks1vwsucks1 Member Posts: 11
    How is it normal to burn a quart of oil in 2000 miles? I can see if I bought a 10 year old car for $1,000. We are talking about a 2000 Jetta, with one owner that is listed for almost $20K. I agree some cars burn some oil (although I have never owned a car before this that ever burned an ounce of oil) but not a quart in 2000 miles. Like you said it is not a catastrophe that this happens, but I didn't buy a brand new car to constantly worry and have to check the oil. If I knew this was the case I would have bought the 10 year old car for $1,000. Why spend the extra money? VW has 10 year or 100,000 mile powertrain warranty in which time I would like to get this problem fixed. From my previous expereinces thus far I am not optimistic. How can I be when the service tech lies to your face and tells you it is a half a quart low when it is a quart. Obviously this is a problem VW has, or they would not tell the service techs to lie.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    and no, I don't work for VW. I see many, many VW cases, along with other manufacturers. VW's standard, and acceptable limits for oil consumption, is using one quart per 1,000 miles. Most other manufacturers have different standards. GM says 1 quart in 2,000 is OK; Chrysler says 1 quart in 3,000 miles is OK.

    That's their standards, both mechanically and legally - I deal with VW's standards and warranties every day.

    You're irritated, as I would be, but there is no legal recourse.
  • vwsucks1vwsucks1 Member Posts: 11
    Since they topped it off last week we put 500 miles on it and it is almost quart low!!! What is VW going to say to me now?
    Is it agreed that the groove in the dipstick is a quart not a half quart?
    How can it be legally acceptable to burn a quart in 1000 miles?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Engine consumption varies with engine design. PLENTY of new engines burn oil. It is not a defect per se to burn oil. Any engineer would tell you that. In fact, burning a bit of oil is actually beneficial.

    The question is one of degree therefore. I don't think there is an automaker in the world who will give you a new engine based on consumption of a quart of oil every 2,000 miles.

    Now a quart every 1,000, I think we all agree is NOT acceptable in a new car.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    "Now a quart every 1,000, I think we all agree is NOT acceptable in a new car."

    VW says its OK, and the courts stand behind them on it.
  • vwsucks1vwsucks1 Member Posts: 11
    and why I'll never buy another one again.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    I love to drive a Golf GTi or Jetta VR6, but I'd never own one after all the problems I've seen.
  • vwsucks1vwsucks1 Member Posts: 11
    How in the world did VW get the courts to agree that losing a quart of oil every 1,000 miles is normal?
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    or disagree - what you're not seeing is that the manufacturer of an automobile made a standard (in this case, oil comsumption) and they warranty their product around that standard. The courts can hold them to THEIR standards, not GMs, DCCs, Fords, or yours.

    Like it or not, if you build an engine and warranty it, you get to set the standards - period.

    I didn't say it was right, just telling you how it is.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    It's a terrible ruling and probably wrong, because if the standard is a quart every 1,000 miles, then let them put that right on the window sticker and see how many people buy the car. This is how I'd argue the case to the judge or jury.

    Also an interesting wrinkle---now that California is requiring rolling dyno smog tests (smog test at higher rpm under load), it is conceivable therefore that a brand new VW burning a quart of oil every 1,000 miles would be unsmoggable in California. I'd like to see VW get THAT past the courts in the near future.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    and a great possibility.
  • samcqsamcq Member Posts: 13
    Yes, my '00 Jetta is also burning oil. I just finished my oil consumption test and I am getting the run around from the dealer service department. If you live in the Philadelphia area, DO NOT go to YBH VW/Audi. Their service department is horrible. That aside, I am waiting for the service department to hear back from the VW rep.

    Is this the same process you have gone through? What can I expect next?
  • vwsucks1vwsucks1 Member Posts: 11
    Unless you are like me and $3K or $4K upside down in the vehicle.
    It sounds like the same service department here in Westoborough, Massachusetts; Colonial VW. The saga will continue.
    Have they put new rings in yet?
    They will call you and tell you they have to do more tests or they will tell you that they will replace the rings, which won't work.
  • samcqsamcq Member Posts: 13
    I am admitting off the bat that I am not an automotive expert.

    What rings are you talking about? I wanted to be prepared for whatever the service dept comes back at me with.
  • vwsucks1vwsucks1 Member Posts: 11
  • samcqsamcq Member Posts: 13
    I am admitting off the bat that I am not an automotive expert.

    What rings are you talking about? I wanted to be prepared for whatever the service dept comes back at me with.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    drop me an e-mail, please.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Remember that National Lampoon magazine that had the bogus auto repair bill?

    Some of the items were:

    brake shoes --$50
    brake socks -- $25
    gas $20
    electric $15
    water $12
    hem piston skirts $400
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    muffler bearings - $75, per side....

    turn signal fluid - $15

    turn signal fluid flush procedure - $60
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    rotate, clean, wax rocks in tire treads -- $125.93

    blow static out of radio -- $85

    mechanic waste disposal fee -- $25

    baldface lies -- $12

    shim bill -- $10

    grease brake pedal -- $17.50
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Stop---this is sounding all too real!
  • sequoiasoonsequoiasoon Member Posts: 223
    Replace winter air with summer air $89.95 with free rotation!
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    complimentary 17-point safety inspection -- free

    (check red boxes until boat payment is met)
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    http://www.kalecoauto.com/

    They have everything from a budget lowering kit (nails) to the "air-filter bypass kit". They even offer the hard to find " cross-drilled brake lines" 8-)
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    thanks, bpeebles, great "deals", I have my card from The East Bank of the Mississippi out now ;)
  • edglock21edglock21 Member Posts: 5
    In addition to having your oil changed, try changing your oil.

    I stopped using petroleum-based oil about 18 years ago and love it. I've only read one post recommending synthetic oil (Havoline). I use Castrol Syntec or Red Line and just change the oil every 5000 mi. Yes, it's more expensive, but 25 bucks for a six-pack of Syntec, or any other synthetic, every few months is a heck of a lot cheaper than a new engine (regardless of who is paying for it).

    My truck (98 RAM) and my girl's 95 Jetta (2 liter gas engine) get the same oil at the same interval and we both have over 120,000 miles on our vehicles.

    Synthetics will also offer some additional protection when running low, BUT THE OIL LEVEL MUST BE CHECKED OFTEN. If it needs some add it. Just do it - and take comfort in knowing that the "blood" of your engine is healthy.

    P.S. No, I don't work for Castrol. I've also used Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Red Line, and Amsoil. My local wholesale club stocks Syntec, so that's what I use now.
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