Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?

carguy58

"You need to own more than 50% of a company to have OUTRIGHT control - but in reality Ford has effective control over Mazda - anytime a company owns much over 25-30% of another company they basically call the shots IF THEY WANT TO"

we all saw when Ford took some control of Mazda in 1994; lets turn them into Toyota. Ahhh! Wrong! Mazda customers dropped like flys in the mid 90's because Mazda was not going after the same customer that they were going for from 1986-1994. Final in 98-99 Ford I think let Mazda do their own thing. The 03 MZ 6 was a big exterior styling upgrade from the 98 626 and the 99 Protege was a big styling upgrade from the 95 model. In conclusion Mazda has the freedom to do what they want because I think Ford see's its in Mazda's best interest to let Mazda do what they want. Mazda. On the negative side though Ford can use whatever Mazda platform they want though.

mirth

Mazda is doing great, and Ford is getting better, so what's the problem? Plus, do you think the average person knows that the Mazda6 and Fusion share a platform? This is not like GM rebadging the TrailBlazer 50 time with all the trucks looking the same. Platform sharing allows a LOT of differences in the final product.

autonomous

Platform sharing allows a LOT of differences in the final product.
Good point!

carguy58

"Mazda is doing great, and Ford is getting better, so what's the problem? Plus, do you think the average person knows that the Mazda6 and Fusion share a platform?"

I agree with you and I disgree with you. I agree with you that platform sharing does make a difference in the final product in some cases: I don't think an Acura TL drives like a Honda Accord and they share the same platform. At the same time why would Ford change anything up in terms of the way the Fusion handles when they are using the already good Mazda 6 platform? The averge person will know know that the Fusion and Mazda 6 share the same platform if they do their reaearch correctly when buying a car. Look at what happened when Mazda developed the Trib/Escape twins Ford had a great sales success with the Escape where as Mazda really didn't have a Mazda 3 sales-esque success with the Tribute and they need a 5,000 discount just to empty them off of lots. The Tribute looks better and I would buy one over the Escape and Honda CR-v but sales numbers tell otherwise. The Tribute looks better than the 01-04 Hyundai Sante Fe but now the Hyundai Tuscon is the competitor to the Tribute since Hyundai took the 4 cyl out of the Sante Fe and put the Tuscon in their line-up where the 4 cyl Sante Fe used to be.

mirth

The averge person will know know that the Fusion and Mazda 6 share the same platform if they do their reaearch correctly when buying a car

Like I said, the average person won't know, lol. :P

derrado1

See, you Americans are spoilt. Less people are buying the Mazda6 because of small interior room (I haven't sat in one myself personally) but the average American is probably no bigger than the average Brit, Canadian or Aussie. Too many bloated fat [non-permissible content removed] Camries and Accords around, it's gotten to you head :P

nvbanker

LIke it or not, only Nissan and Mazda are building good looking Asian cars right now - everybody else including GM, Ford are building very plain looking ordinary cars. I think Mazda has a GREAT future in the US.

carguy58

"LIke it or not, only Nissan and Mazda are building good looking Asian cars right now - everybody else including GM, Ford are building very plain looking ordinary cars. I think Mazda has a GREAT future in the US."

I agree Mazda and Nissan are making some eye-catching cars. The Domestics still got Chrysler and Caddy though.

carguy58

"See, you Americans are spoilt. Less people are buying the Mazda6 because of small interior room (I haven't sat in one myself personally) but the average American is probably no bigger than the average Brit, Canadian or Aussie. Too many bloated fat [non-permissible content removed] Camries and Accords around, it's gotten to you head"

I have sat in a 6(hatchback model though) and the interior is actually pretty roomy but not as roomy as Altima. I was at an Auto show when I sat in the 6 and I heard somebody saying they liked the camry than whatever car they were comparing it too because it had more room. This lady was pretty thin too who was saying the Camry was roomier than whatever car she was comparing it too.

miffed

Have you ever sat in a Mazda 6. It not very comfortable if you are 6 foot or over. The performance of the vehicle is outstanding the gas mileage is great. The interior IMO sucks. Mazda could compete against the Accord or the Camry if it's interior room was better. Mazda revamp it and compete it with the other big boys your sales will increase trust me. :confuse:

autonomous

Mazda could compete against the Accord or the Camry if it's interior room was better.

Mazda heard you as I've read that a larger Mazda6 is already in the works for 2007 (or 2008).

Personally, I find many recent mid-size cars look bloated, the Camry and Altima exemplify this. Hopefully, manufacturers balance the size and weight with the function of the car. Heavier machines require bigger engines; bigger cars have parking issues, they also consume more dino-fluid (and the list goes on). On the other hand, they are handy if you have a family. If cars were designed to be roomier and lighter I think that would be an improvement; if they were roomier inside, smaller outside and lighter that would be great.

mz6greyghost

Have you ever sat in a Mazda 6. It not very comfortable if you are 6 foot or over.

I'm 6'3", about 250 lbs, and my 6 fits me just fine, with headroom and legroom to spare. My 6 even has a moonroof!

The interior IMO sucks. Mazda could compete against the Accord or the Camry if it's interior room was better. Mazda revamp it and compete it with the other big boys your sales will increase trust me.

I bought the 6 because it was NOT the Accord or Camry. The "big boys" as you call them are too bloated and way overweight for their size. I have had four adults (including me) sitting comfortably in my 6 for a 2-hour road trip, none of them shorter than 5'8", and they didn't complain once about any lack or room.

BTW, Mazda tried to fit in with the "big boys" in the mid to late '90's. The result? They almost went back to Japan with their tail behind their legs! I consider Mazda to be the alternative to the other makers, with an emphasis on driving FUN! Great performance, good features, and plain FUN to drive. I still smile when I'm behind the wheel of my 6, and it's been almost 18 months and over 21K miles.

Could I say that about Honda or Toyota? Uhh, no...

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the 6 in the future, but I hope that they keep the true driving enthusiast in mind when they introduce new models. Without them, they're nothing...

carlisimo

I sat in an MX-5 yesterday. I couldn't get as comfortable as I could in the old Miatas; it's designed for people taller than me. I'm 5'7", but I have a short torso even for that height, I guess.

I blame the tall people =p.

nvbanker

"BTW, Mazda tried to fit in with the "big boys" in the mid to late '90's. The result? They almost went back to Japan with their tail behind their legs! I consider Mazda to be the alternative to the other makers, with an emphasis on driving FUN! Great performance, good features, and plain FUN to drive."

That's how I feel too, and honestly, if I'm looking for an Asian sedan these days, Mazda is where I look first, Nissan or Infiniti second.

carguy58

"Have you ever sat in a Mazda 6. It not very comfortable if you are 6 foot or over. The performance of the vehicle is outstanding the gas mileage is great. The interior IMO sucks. Mazda could compete against the Accord or the Camry if it's interior room was better. Mazda revamp it and compete it with the other big boys your sales will increase trust me."

I'm not 6 foot but I;m about 5-6 or 5-7 and the 6 hatch like I said before felt roomy enough for me.

carguy58

"Hopefully, manufacturers balance the size and weight with the function of the car."

I'm sure all car manufacturers or at least hope are taking a look now how to put as much interior room in a car that they can without the car itself gaining too much weight over its previous generation model.

"If cars were designed to be roomier and lighter I think that would be an improvement; if they were roomier inside, smaller outside and lighter that would be great."

The roomier inside smaller outside analogy goes well with the 06 Hyundai Sonata. The Sonata looks reasonably sized on the outside but is rated by the EPA as a full-sized car(from what I hear anyway.)

carguy58

"BTW, Mazda tried to fit in with the "big boys" in the mid to late '90's. The result? They almost went back to Japan with their tail behind their legs!

No, what the other poster was saying I think to you was that Mazda has to bring the 6's interior room to Alt0ima, Camry, and Accord standards to get their fair share of sales in the mid-size segment. Mazda and even Nissan try to be like Toyota in the mid to lte 90's which led Ford to buy more of a share of Mazda in 96 and Renault to bail out Nissan.

"I consider Mazda to be the alternative to the other makers, with an emphasis on driving FUN!"

Its hard to believe how Mazda;s core buyer has changed so much since I had a 98 626 from 98-01. Mazda back in 98 really had no core buyer or anything like that. Now Mazda owners are so passisionate about their cars. I am happy though Mazda has a following with Generation Y and maybe some generation X people although Honda really has a heavy following with the generation X buyer from the 96-00 Civic days.

nvbanker

but Gen Y really seems to have adopted Mazda as their mascot, and you're right, they're passionate about it.

carguy58

"It'll be interesting to see what happens to the 6 in the future, but I hope that they keep the true driving enthusiast in mind when they introduce new models. Without them, they're nothing... "

Mazda for the next 6 has to maintain the sporty ride of the current 6 while a making the next 6 bigger in size. I have seen a picture of the next 6 in a magazine over the summer. The next 6 on the front of the car looked like the front of the 98-99 Toyota Avalon which is a pleasent looking car pared with an enlarged 01-02 Millenia grille. The photo's were just drawings but that particular magazine was pretty accurate on what other cars would look like like the current Civic and the Mazda Cx 7. However, they were totally wrong of what the 03 Honda Accord would look like. I am sorry for the 6's sporty looks to go in favor of more contempary exterior look if the photo's were correct but at least the photo of the next 6 didn't look ugly.

nippononly

at the auto show Friday (probably its busiest day) there were only a handful of car companies whose areas were SO PACKED you couldn't walk through easily, and had to wait in line no matter which model you wanted to take a look at. And yes, somewhat to my surprise, Mazda was one of them, along with Toyota, Honda, Scion, and Mini.

NOT Nissan, another surprise for me.

Actually overheard one guy tell a spokesperson that he had probably just made a sale on a Mazda6 hatchback, and that he was going straight from there to a dealer. I like the hatch, but I thought they were killing the hatch and the wagon on the Mazda6 line?

Oh, and I GET the Mazda5 now! I like it a lot, sat in every position in the car, even the third row which has enough leg and head room for me, a less-than-slender 5'9" guy. It has a ton of cool stuff (love the sliding second row, lots of ways to get comfortable there, and the 17" rims - are those standard?) enough that you really do a double-take when you look at the sticker and find only a $20K bottom line. I figure it is probably slow in action, with several hundred extra pounds to haul around vs the Mazda3 hatch which has the same standard engine. But apart from that it seems a fabulous idea, and lots of people at the show seem to agree with me. I am rooting for it now more than I was before. This type of vehicle could do a lot for furthering the cause of downsizing American vehicles. It is not the living room in motion that the minivans are, but it is perfectly sufficient for transporting five to seven people and some luggage in comfort, without scrunching them all up.

I hear Mazda will finally get a hybrid version of the Tribute, only a year after Ford got one? Or is it two years? I think that will sell well too.

carguy58

at the auto show Friday (probably its busiest day) there were only a handful of car companies whose areas were SO PACKED you couldn't walk through easily, and had to wait in line no matter which model you wanted to take a look at. And yes, somewhat to my surprise, Mazda was one of them, along with Toyota, Honda, Scion, and Mini."

"NOT Nissan, another surprise for me."

I'm surprised Nissan wasn't packed considering the roll they have been on sales wise since release of the 02 Altima.

"Actually overheard one guy tell a spokesperson that he had probably just made a sale on a Mazda6 hatchback, and that he was going straight from there to a dealer. I like the hatch, but I thought they were killing the hatch and the wagon on the Mazda6 line?"

I didn't know Mazda was killing the 6 htach and 6 wagon line. In my opinion though they should kill the wagon. I mean how most of the 6 wagons are sold to rentals I think. I do see some 6 hatches around around the lower half of Northern NJ and Central NJ that are not rentals because they have the dealer advertising around the liscence plate.

"Oh, and I GET the Mazda5 now! I like it a lot, sat in every position in the car, even the third row which has enough leg and head room for me, a less-than-slender 5'9" guy. It has a ton of cool stuff (love the sliding second row, lots of ways to get comfortable there, and the 17" rims - are those standard?) enough that you really do a double-take when you look at the sticker and find only a $20K bottom line. I figure it is probably slow in action, with several hundred extra pounds to haul around vs the Mazda3 hatch which has the same standard engine. But apart from that it seems a fabulous idea, and lots of people at the show seem to agree with me. I am rooting for it now more than I was before. This type of vehicle could do a lot for furthering the cause of downsizing American vehicles. It is not the living room in motion that the minivans are, but it is perfectly sufficient for transporting five to seven people and some luggage in comfort, without scrunching them all up."

The 5 is a looker for what they call a small mini-van!

nippononly

a micro van! :-)

mirth

I sat in a Mazda5 about a month ago and I really liked it as well. My wife and I are probably going to get a minivan soon and I would definitely have considered the 5. Unfortunately, my wife hates the exterior design so I'm stuck with a classic minivan. Sigh.

nippononly

Mazda's full-size minivan is most uninspiring, at least to sit in. Maybe the drive is fantastic or something.

asafonov

...but it is perfectly sufficient for transporting five to seven people and some luggage in comfort, without scrunching them all up.

Does not Mazda5 come in only a 6-seat configuration? (no 7-people seating as in minivans?)

nippononly

well it has a full-width rear seat, which I assumed would seat three, but I never actually saw three people in it, so maybe it would only seat six. The seventh person would have to be pretty small to be comfortable anyway, so yeah, how about six people? :-)

bobw3

The Mazda5 has three rows with 2 seats each. Of course you could always squeeze three kids in the 3rd row, but only 2 of them would have seatbelts, unless you put two kids under one seatbelt.

nippononly

but you know what, with the width of that third row seat, the two passengers sitting there will be comfortable, a small miracle in the world of third row seats.

Can Americans let go of the supersize mandate long enough to make the 5 a sales success? I hope so.

PF_Flyer

Escape the holiday madness and enjoy some time with your fellow Mazda enthusiasts!

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stefx

Mazda5 Selected “Best New Multi-Purpose Family Vehicle” by the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada

http://www.ajac.ca/english/news/index.asp?lang=1&function=detail&newsid=71

Not bad!

carguy58

Basically the same story as October sales:

MZ 6 sales down again. I'm surprised this car as it ages its sales numbers are dropping into the 4,000 sales mark range a month the past 2 months.

MZ 3 sales up again. Its up to selling 90K units this year which is great for Mazda.

Tribute sales down-The car is showing its age.

Miata sales up-Its interesting Mazda sales statistics show its sales numbers its up because I have only seen 1 06 Miata on the road since its debut and I live in Jersey. In Jersey you see your share of 3's, last generation Proteges, and 6's, some Tribtes and yet I have only seen 1 06 Miata.

RX 8 sales down-Not a surprise there.

BTW, I think what has killed Mazda sales in the past few months is the big recall/stopsale on the Mazda 5 and to a lesser extent declining MZ 6 sales. Mazda still needs a 27-30K car to compete with the Maxima, 300, Hyundai Azera, Buick LaCrosse, and Toyota Avalon. Thats a big hole in MAzda's line-up in my opinion. In my opinion though Mazda has not mastered the 20K-25K price midsized car so they should not put out a 27K-30K car out till the master the 20K-25K midsize car category.

richml

I live at the Jersey Shore, and there are many, many Tributes on the road in these parts, more than Ford Escapes, in my estimation.

With that said, my wife (loves her Tribute) would gladly trade it in when the new CX-7 comes out.

My unscientific observations also indicate more 6's than 3's on the road around here.

PF_Flyer

Since it's gonna be below zero here tonight, I'm looking forward to the warm glow of the monitor :P

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smaria

If Mazda wants to have a good future, they should probably start being more careful about their website.

The current problem with the website is that it's advertising the MPG of the AT Mazda5 as 21/23 (click on Mazda5, Performance, Miles Per Gallon), but the EPA rating is actually 21/26. Even 21/26 seems low compared to what people are posting as real-world numbers. Are they TRYING to make the Mazda5 look bad?

Can you tell I'm a Mazda5 owner?

mazda6s

Even though I am a Mazda fan I'll be one of the first to say that their web site sucks. They have had numerous errors and delays in updates.

aviboy97

For those of you that have not seen the latest issue of Consumer Reports, the Mazda5 got a really nice write up. Consumers did an article on large wagons/microvans. They compared it to the Pontiac Vibe, PT Cruiser and a few others. Although, it did not receive a perfect write-up, as does no car with Consumers, from what I read, it was just what that vehicle needed to kick start sales. I hope it works. It received the best review of any car tested against it. Way to go Mazda!

stickguy

Did they finally make the fixes and start selling these? I do think it is a nice package, although they should have been able to get better MPG ratings.

Gearing is the problem IMO. If they had a 5 speed AT with better ratios (maybe the 6 speed?), and the manual really needs another gear or a better cruising gear. Way too buzzy on the highway.

stickguy

One of the monthly car magazines (might be Automobile) had a pic of the next (non-US) MPV. Looked slick, and sounded like a vast improvement. Might actually be able to sell more of them, but it would conflict with the 5 I guess, and is still smaller than the class leaders.

mirth

Just saw the official pics and engine specs for the CX-7. 244HP and 258lb-ft from a turbo 4 that averages 23MPG. Gotta start working on the wife now to get this instead of a minivan...

guss

wait too see the CX-7. If Mazda can keep it in the $25k range I would be very intereseted.If 23 mpg's is realistic , that would be as good as my 6 wagon. Hmmm...

whipped95

Looking at the frontend I can't help but think they stole this from the Mazda3, it looks just a bit more rounded from the pictures anyhow. Just my thoughts.

nippononly

it does also like a mouse-ified version of the front of the new Avalon and Camry, a look which Corolla was going to follow for the '08 model, although they have since put that one back in the hopper for some changes.

I keep waiting for Mazda to do promotional incentives for the 3, but I guess I will wait in vain, eh? It still sells strongly, I know. They have specials running on many models now where I live, but the 3 is not among them. The RX-8 can be had very cheaply now, one local dealer put on a newspaper ad with 5 of them priced at $20,9 after their own discounts and all the Mazda incentives. They still have a bunch of '05s, maybe they are starting to worry.

carguy58

"I keep waiting for Mazda to do promotional incentives for the 3, but I guess I will wait in vain, eh? It still sells strongly, I know."

Ah, Mazda had a bullsye with the 3. It'll be interesting to see if it gets discounted with the new Civic out on the market. If it gets discounted like Mazda's in the 90's I think some shoppers might take the 3 off their list of cars that they are considering. One of Mazda's weakenesess has always been resale value when compared to Toyota or Honda.

"They have specials running on many models now where I live, but the 3 is not among them. The RX-8 can be had very cheaply now, one local dealer put on a newspaper ad with 5 of them priced at $20,9 after their own discounts and all the Mazda incentives. They still have a bunch of '05s, maybe they are starting to worry."

The RX-8 just doesn't sell well. The gas miledage is not good on the Rx-8. Its just isn't promoted enough by Mazda either. I sat in an RX-8. The car has a great interior and great looks but it's just so low to the ground for me I wouldn't even consider one.

carguy58

To me Mazda has missed some opportunities in the Us in the past 3 years to gain sales in the US:

1.) The Mazda 6 launch in 03 gone horribly wrong. They miscaculated on the build combonations that custiomers wanted and the car suffered a slow lauch and slow sales in its first few months of its debut.

2.)Mazda 3 not having enough supply in the US market for the 04 model year.

3.) Stop sales on Mazda 5's; this also cost alot of missed sales because of the recall. Because of the stop sale of in my opinion the Mazda will not record a year to date increase in sales.

4.) First year bugs with the RX-8 sports car.

A look at Mazda sales for the past 5 years:

2000: 252K
2001: 269K
2002: 258K
2003: 258K
2004: 263K
2005: 239K so far.

Here's a look at 3/Protege sales since 2001:

2001: 78K
2002: 83K
2003: 68K
2004: 76K
2005: 90K so far

Here's a look at 626/6 sales since 2000:

2000: 71K
2001: 50K
2002: 40K
2003: 65K
2004: 72K
2005: 66K so far

Mazda had recorded a year to date increase 6 out of the last 7 years since the 1998 model year. Mazda just seems to miss opportunities that they could capitalize on to gain sales in the US on a year to year basis especially in the last few years because of mistakes they make with their product.

BTW, I know Mazda has cut down some of their sales to rental fleets as well the past few years because they want to establish good residuals.

z71bill

You say "If it gets discounted like Mazda's in the 90's I think some shoppers might take the 3 off their list of cars that they are considering. One of Mazda's weakenesess has always been resale value when compared to Toyota or Honda"

So you think Mazda will sell more cars if they DO NOT discount the price?

No way - this is just not reality.

How many customers would say - PLEASE don't give me a $2,000 rebate NOW - because if you do I will get $1,000 less in 5 years when I trade the car in.

This pricing strategy can work - if you are selling some luxury products - but just does not fit when you are selling economy cars in a market packed with competition.

The price of a new car is obviously one (major) factor in resale value - but think about it - its not just the price of a new Mazda3 that determines the resale value of a used Mazda3. Its the price of all the other used cars - & also the price of a NEW car from some other companies (Kia maybe).

The other major thing that determines resale is how reliable the car is - I think that a big part of Toyota & Honda (high) resale price is because they have a REPUTATION for building reliable cars. Mazda does not have this reputation.

carguy58

"So you think Mazda will sell more cars if they DO NOT discount the price?"

Well Honda and Toyota fans always look to throw jabs at Mazda because they discount and they always say Mazda discounts so I won't buy a Mazda because it doesn't have good resale.

"How many customers would say - PLEASE don't give me a $2,000 rebate NOW - because if you do I will get $1,000 less in 5 years when I trade the car in."

I understand what you re saying there. BTW, you have the option of taking the discount and combining it with the transaction price of the car or just taking the factory rebate and getting cash back. I know getting the cash back its not going to higher the car's resale value.

I know a manufacturer or dealer will put factory rebates or dealer discounts on their cars out if a car on their lot isn;t selling quickly.

"The price of a new car is obviously one (major) factor in resale value - but think about it - its not just the price of a new Mazda3 that determines the resale value of a used Mazda3. Its the price of all the other used cars - & also the price of a NEW car from some other companies (Kia maybe)."

On the topic of resale value I myself thought for each individual car its resale value was affected by how many rebates were given, sales to rental fleets of that individual car, and how long that individual car is in demand on used car lots. It didn't know for example say a Mazda Protege's resale could be effected by how much say a new Kia Spectra is selling for.

"The other major thing that determines resale is how reliable the car is - I think that a big part of Toyota & Honda (high) resale price is because they have a REPUTATION for building reliable cars. Mazda does not have this reputation."

Yes I know REPUTATION with Honda and Toyota does pull alot of people into the showrooms especially Toyota. I seen people on the internet over the years ask is Mazda reliable as Honda. I guess people just want the best built car possible. I don;t get why people can't buy a car because they like it instead of asking is so and so car reliable as Honda or Toyota? I like Honda so I;m not looking to diss Honda at all but I'm just saying people should buy a car because they like it.

sandiegoguy

"but I'm just saying people should buy a car because they like it"

It seems GM, Ford and Chrysler are with you.

But, after years of buying all kinds of cars I aim to buy cars "I like" that are "reliable". I will chose a car I like a little less for a significant gain in reliability. I think most people make similar judgements- eventually. You have to buy a few "dogs", and waste time and money getting repairs before you come to that conclusion. Of course there are exceptions. If I had lots of money I'd probably own some really unreliable Italian sports cars. But I'd still have a reliable daily driver.

The reliability translates to either 1)satisfactory trouble-free longterm ownership, 2) better resale, and 3)it'll sell faster used.

I would agree with you if there were no likable reliable cars. A reliable box with wheels would not be so much fun.

carguy58

"but I'm just saying people should buy a car because they like it"

"It seems GM, Ford and Chrysler are with you."

I;m not making this a Domestic Big 3 vs Toyota and Honda or something like that. I'm just saying you should buy what you like wether it be a Honda, Chevy, or Mazda. In 1999-2000 when the Toyota Celica came out I really loved the bodystyle however I wouldn;t buy a Camry I don't think even though they are made by the same brand. To go further into it I look at Consumer Reports for reliability. If the car has at least an average reliability than I will buy it. Most cars(Domestic and Japanese branded)except for the Europeans have at least average reliability ratings. Even Hyundai has improved in this regard. Alright lets get back to talking about Mazda here if possible.

mdaffron

Well, this should help answer that question:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060109/BUSINESS03/601090396/10- 02/BUSINESS

Meade

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