Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?

herrkaleu

Will Mazda ever bring the Mazda 2 to the US?
I mean, since Toyota and Honda bring their small cars...
wouldn't cost them too much since the car already exists...

rockylee

Both are very nice cars, just short of being Acura killers. The Mazdaspeed6 is just missing some bells and whistles that Acura/Lexus offers from being a really awesome car.

Rocky

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nippononly

to see pics of the Mazdaspeed 3 last night in some mag, Autoweek I think. Then I began to read................and discovered they are not putting the AWD of the MS6 in the MS3?????? Same engine, FWD? OMG! No! Talk about traction control (or the lack thereof). They NEED to put the AWD in the MS3.

rorr

"They NEED to put the AWD in the MS3."

yarrrrg!

What IS IT with this fascination with AWD???

The new MS3 will have revised steering geometry, half-shafts of lightly different thicknesses (designed to equalize torque left/right) and a standard Limited Slip Differential.

If torque steer is handled, why go to the extra expense and weight of AWD?

When was the last time Mazda screwed up the handling and chassis of one of their cars (particularly a Speed version)? I'd prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that their engineer's know what the hell they're doing without jumping overboard just because they aren't offering AWD.

nippononly

torque steer - it is breaking the front wheels loose ALL THE TIME because there is way too much power for them to stick to the ground as the weight of the whole car shifts backward when you accelerate.

I had an RSX that was a pain in the butt to drive, especially in the rain, for this exact reason, and now here is the MS3 with about the same weight and ANOTHER 50 hp. :-(

rorr

A few of points:

The car will have traction control (in addition to standard stability control.

Having to 'soft pedal' a car occassionally means (for me anyway) a more involving car to drive. If I've got more traction than hp/torque, there's no challenge. I want to have to balance my available traction with the power; where's the fun in simply mashing the gas whenever you want without having to take into account wheel spin?

And finally, just how fast do you want to go in the rain anyway? AWD isn't gonna help you corner any better (except of course when trying to appy power in the corner) nor slow down any better.

nippononly

you can talk all about all the advantages you want, but in a sport-oriented car, I am looking for rear driven wheels. It can be RWD (preferred) or as part of AWD if need be, but front-drive high-powered cars are just all wrong - the fronts are for STEERING.

The limits of traction vs power are just too low with FWD. And BTW, as much fun as it is to drive a fast car fast just for the sake of it, the reality is that 90% of the time you are running errands and going to work, and plenty of that 90% of the time it will be raining or some other thing. At those times, it is a pain in the butt to be nursing the clutch like crazy just to leave a stoplight without theatrics.

Yes, traction control will help minimize that, but that's just ME spending money on a software package because THEY didn't want to spend the money to develop a proper RWD platform. Mazda is not the only guilty one here of course. Either way I swore off front drivers with my last one.

rorr

"...but in a sport-oriented car, I am looking for rear driven wheels."

Absolutely agree 100%.

But I don't think we'll be seeing a RWD Mazda3 anytime soon (but I have high hopes for the Kabura!).

But I disagree regarding AWD on a performance car. To me (and this is just IMO), part of the 'fun' of a street driven performance car is that it rewards good driving.....and exacts a penalty on sloppy driving. To me (and again, this is just IMO) AWD is a bit too.....safe. A bit too easy. It's basically gas it and steer - gas it and steer. Certainly it may be the 'quickest' way around; just not necessarily the most rewarding.

"And BTW, as much fun as it is to drive a fast car fast just for the sake of it, the reality is that 90% of the time you are running errands and going to work, and plenty of that 90% of the time it will be raining or some other thing."

And 90% of the time you won't be dipping into all that hp/torque so it shouldn't be a problem anyway. And no, plenty of that 90% it WON'T be raining or whatever (at least not here in south central Texas).

Besides, there's several hot AWD hatches already out there: WRX, Mitsu EVO, Volve S40, Saab 9-2x, Audi A3, and VW R32 (if/when it comes over this fall). Yes, I know that AWD is currently the 'in thing' with performance hatches. Subie did it because they've staked their company image to AWD for every car in the lineup and they needed something to get rid of their stodgy image. Mitsu jumped in as an extention of their rally participation and to offer competition with the WRX. But I'm not sure how sales are going for the EVO, S40, etc. (although WRX sales are still strong). Would there be room for another in the form of an AWD MS3?

For me, personally, I will give strong consideration to a reasonably priced FWD MS3. I will give virtually 0 consideration to an AWD version (just as I care not a bit for a WRX or EVO).

nippononly

would there be room for an AWD MS3? I think it would have the looks category won the second it hit the street. The performance would have to be all there of course. I figure it would sell for around the price of a WRX, or a little more.

Look at the MS6 - low $30Ks and available in very limited numbers - its obvious competitor is the Legacy GT. One of the car mags just did a comparo between those two and a bunch of near-lux or lux AWD small cars, and the Legacy and MS6 beat them all. There is the same if not more room for the MS3 in the AWD under-$30K compact performance segment.

So I think it is OK if the MS3 comes out pricey, as long as it has all the good qualities of the MS6 in a smaller version. Besides, how many do they want to sell anyway? Not many.

stickguy

I agree that to much power in a FWD car is just a drag. When I test drove an A3, it was very easy to spin the wheels, even on a dry road. Just takes the fun out of a torque monster motor.

On the Mazda, the engine is lower powered than on the 6, so that might help a little.

One new competitor for the speed 3 is the Dodge Caliber SRT (replaces the old Neon). Very similar power, with some nice chassis/powertrain go fast goodies I believe, and it is also a 5 door hatch.

Should be an interesting comparison, and another case of Mazda taking too long to get a unique product to market, and letting the competition get there first!

stickguy

Actually, if they did the speed 3 powertrain in the 5, I would have to seriously think about trying to hustle my wife out of her Odyssey, although I'm not sure if she is ready to go back to a stick...

I truly think they would sell quite a few speed 5s, and it is the one model that could really use the extra power. And if the engine is certified, it would even be pretty cheap to do.

mz6greyghost

A Mazdaspeed 5? One word, awesome. A smaller plain-jane minivan that just happens to spank all the 16-year-old Civic drivers out there. It would sell well in Europe, but probably not in the US, considering that it's just TOO practical for US tastes.

As far as the MS3 goes, RWD would be nice, but AWD would shoot the price way up, and AFAIK, the MS3 will only be available as a 5-door. Having AWD would require extra bracing in the rear of the car, which would render the 5-door useless as a cargo hauler.

Witness the MS6. That's only available in a sedan, and the rear seats "technically" don't fold down, due to the rear cross-bracing behind the seat. The 5-door lacks the structural bracing to handle the AWD. Adding the extra bracing would add too much weight, and would kill the available cargo space due to the non-folding rear seats.

(BTW, there IS a way to fold down the seats on the MS6, but that's a different topic entirely... )

aviboy97

A Mazdaspeed 5? One word, awesome. A smaller plain-jane minivan that just happens to spank all the 16-year-old Civic drivers out there.

Funny you mention that. In Japan and Europe, the new 2007 MPV looks identical to the Mazda5, obviously much bigger, and it has the MZR2.3L DISI Turbo. In Hong Kong, it's the Mazda8.

http://autonet.ca/Autoshows/story.cfm?story=/Autoshows/Tokyo/2005/10/05/1249880.- html

rockylee

About the next generation 6 ?

Will it be marginally better or alot better ?

How bout the Mazdaspeed6 ? Will it get a real bump in performance to over take Subaru and Mitsubishi ?

Keep me informed since I'm interested if any of ya'll have any rumors or facts....

Rocky

mz6greyghost

About the next generation 6 ?
Will it be marginally better or alot better ?

Depends on what you call "better". The '08 6 is supposed to grow in length, wheelbase and width in order to be more competitive with the Accord and Altima. I'd think this would be better IF they maintain the excellent handling, brake feel, and steering that the current 6 has, which is far better than the competition (IMO). If Mazda can figure that out, along with bumping the Duratec 35 up to 270 HP and mating a 6-speed manual, then they've got a gem on their hands, and more than a few repeat buyers. Obviously, styling is subjective, and to each their own on that. But if the 6 grows, yet continues to be a true drivers car, as well as maintains it's good looks, it'll do just fine. It may be even more of a sales success than the current 6 has.

How bout the Mazdaspeed6 ? Will it get a real bump in performance to over take Subaru and Mitsubishi ?

The MS6 was never built to be a STi/Evo killer, as some may think. It's supposed to be for a more mature driver that still likes a little fun. Saying that, I don't think the next-gen MS6 (if there is one) will ever be a STi/Evo killer either, but more of an evolutionary take on the current MS6. If it can put the Leg GT Spec B in it's place, that'll be good too!

slaughter5111

a mazda dealer would buy a 2004 mazda that I want to get rid of? carmax is too low...would mazda pay a little more for it or will they not buy the car without me buying another vehicle

carguy58

"About the next generation 6 ?
Will it be marginally better or alot better ?"

"Depends on what you call "better". The '08 6 is supposed to grow in length, wheelbase and width in order to be more competitive with the Accord and Altima. I'd think this would be better IF they maintain the excellent handling, brake feel, and steering that the current 6 has, which is far better than the competition (IMO). If Mazda can figure that out, along with bumping the Duratec 35 up to 270 HP and mating a 6-speed manual, then they've got a gem on their hands, and more than a few repeat buyers. Obviously, styling is subjective, and to each their own on that. But if the 6 grows, yet continues to be a true drivers car, as well as maintains it's good looks, it'll do just fine. It may be even more of a sales success than the current 6 has."

I think also with the next generation 6 Mazda needs to improve the interior materials and overall interior theme in the 6. Not everybody took a looking to the current 6 interior overall. I think thats an area where Mazda has to work on. I didn't mind the interior myself but the controls for the A/c did look a little complicated.

Here's my thoughts on Mazda's current stance in the US market:

Ever since the new Honda Civic came out its taken a bite out of MZ 3 sales because I don;t see as many 3's with new car tags as I used too before the new Civic out. Mazda did say 3 sales were down last month from last years numbers(March 06 vs March 05) because of limited supply or a lack of options I think. I'm just thinking about if Mazda can't keep up their US sales at a good pace without dumping cars to fleets. The new CX-9 should add 20,000-30,000 a year units in the US at least. I don't see who Mazda is going to take market share from. In my opinion the 08 6 has to be like the 02 Nissan Altima in terms of sales to win some market share. The Rx-8 didn't get too much of a good reception sales wise despite the eye-catching styling. Mazda just doesn't have an idea of what Us buyers(sales wise anyway)want in a car hasn't had a grip on US car buyers since the early 90's. It looked good for Mazda before the new Civic came out. It'll be interesting to see if the next 6 can win Accord or Altima buyers. See what bothers me is Mazda always says we are going to build Camry or Accord fighter and in some way it just never happens sales wise anyway. The 93 626 was the last car that Mazda really had that would fight the Camry and Accord but Mazda blew that one with the Ford Tranny in 4 cyl auto 626 94-97 models. The 98 626 the suspension was too soft and the styling was too bland. For the 2000 model year improved the 626 but it was too late. The current 6 the car is lacking interior room, and the interior theme and materials not everybody can take a liking too. I should also add Mazda needs a sub-compact to compete with the Toyota Yaris, Hyndai Accent and Honda Fit.

carlisimo

It's got the Mazda2/Demio in the rest of the world, but I hear it's not that great. They should design the next generation with the US in mind and bring it over.

rockylee

TOKYO - Mazda Motor Corp. said Friday that its profits jumped 46 percent in the last fiscal year on rising sales and a one-time gain, and the Japanese automaker predicted net income would climb 12 percent in the current business year.

Net income rose to 66.7 billion yen ($580 million) in the year ended March 31, from 45.8 billion yen a year earlier, the Hiroshima-based company said.

Sales increased 8.3 percent to 2.92 trillion yen ($25.4 billion).

Mazda did not provide fourth-quarter figures, and company spokesman Toshio Yamane said it doesn't release those results.

Mazda, an affiliate of Ford Motor Co., is among the Japanese automakers reporting relatively good results at a time when U.S. automakers are struggling with losses and giving up U.S. market share to the Japanese and other Asian makers. Last year's profit was bolstered by a one-time gain of transferring part of the company's pension obligations to the government.

Sales were helped by Mazda's efforts to expand dealerships in Japanese metropolitan areas, ramping out sales capacity in China and increasing the percentage of U.S. dealerships that are linked exclusively to the company.

Looking to the current business year through March 2007, Mazda forecast net income to rise to 75 billion yen ($657.9 million) on an increase of sales to 3.1 trillion yen ($27.2 billion).

While sales are expected to be helped by steady economic growth in Japan and the United States, Mazda warned that rising oil and raw material costs remain possible hurdles in the current business year.

Mazda's sales rose 8.9 percent last year in Japan, the company's single biggest market by value, making it the region with the fastest revenue growth. Regionally, Mazda also booked its biggest jump in operating profit in the Japan market, where earnings rose 71 percent to 100.2 billion yen ($879 million).

Overseas sales accounted for about 70 percent of Mazda's overall revenue.

The company's share price has about doubled in the last year. The shares were down 0.2 percent at 730 yen ($6.40) at the end morning trading on the Tokyo Stock Exchange.

What this means to you ? Mazda does have a future here in the U.S.

Rocky

carguy58

Strenghts:

Styling(some of the best looking cars on the road today if not the best.)

Fun to drive factor(Mazda has been often called the Japanese BMW because of their fun to drive factor.)

A loyal following of Generation Y buyers and women in their 20's, 30's and early 40's.

Interiors quality is good but could be a little better but still a strength.

Weaknesses:

No dominant big car like Honda and Nissan have with Acccord and Altima repectively(this is being addressed.)

Dealership Network(this is being addressed.)

Preception of Reliabilty or lack there of(Mazda's reputation for reliability lets be honest is not good like Honda's and Nissan's is.) In reality its pretty even with Nissan but customers look a the Mazda tri-star emblem and don't see a reputation for reliability.

Resale Value(again another category where the trail Honda and Nissan but are actually making headway.) The 3 has good resale value I think and the 6's resale value is not too shabby from what I see in Consumer Reports. Miata has always had strong resale value. Still perception of Mazda's rsale value is not there where Honda and Nissan have it from a perception standpoint.

Sales in the US of Mazda automobiles in the US has not been picking up much since 1998. Mazda's current market share in the US is 1.7%. I think in the late 90's it was about the same maybe 1.5% or 1.6%. Mazda needs to market their product a little better here. It gets harder to win Honda and Toyota buyers with each passing year it seems.

Oh yeah Mazda has a new guy(his first name is Laurens)in charge of design from what I hear. The guy(moray Callum) who was in charge of Mazda's designs with the 03 6 and 04 3 I think has been moved to Ford. The new guy that is in charge of Mazda's designs had been working with Ford. This change has been made ASAP with the designers for Mazda and Ford.

nippononly

considering that the Mazda3 is the most successful model Mazda has had here in YEARS AND YEARS (well except for the iconic Miata of course - I was kind of thinking more of mainstream cars), does anyone besides me think the time is ripe for them to bring a smaller model here? I love what I have seen of the Mazda2, several other carmakers are introducing smaller-than-compact cars here this year, and Mazda's strength is in small sporty cars. I can't imagine that the Fit would be much of a problem for Mazda to topple with its own offering, in terms of sportiness and fun factor, not to mention styling.

mirth

They make more money on the bigger people-movers (CX-7 and 9).

I agree with you - just offering the explanation.

audia8q

I would like to see the Mazda2 come here also...but my first choice would be a sedan above the MZ6. We have alot of new Mazda owners who are driving the MZ6 but they have nowhere to go next. We are starting to see alot of first generation Mazda6 owners who want something a little more upscale than the 6 and we don't have anything in the Mazda lineup. So far, we have been selling them Lincoln Zephyr's.

wonderwall

I read somewhere that it's made in England at a Ford plant or something. If they bring the 2, I want it to come from Hiroshima.

carlisimo

They also build it in Valencia, Spain, next to Ford Fiestas.

carguy58

"We have alot of new Mazda owners who are driving the MZ6 but they have nowhere to go next. We are starting to see alot of first generation Mazda6 owners who want something a little more upscale than the 6 and we don't have anything in the Mazda lineup. So far, we have been selling them Lincoln Zephyr's."

Zephyrs really? I think that car is awkward looking(boxy looking if you will.) One Internet aricle that I read said that this salesman at a Lincoln dealership claims he can;t keep the Zephyrs in stock. I have seen some Zephyr sightings in NJ.

About Mazda adding a car above the Mazda 6... I don;t know Mazda is not really a player in the mid-size category that Honda or Nissan are. I would wait I would for the 6 to be a major player sales wise(that might happen with the next generation) to launch a car above the 6.

rockylee

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060504/AUTO02/605040421/- 1148/AUTO01

:surprise:

Rocky

rockylee

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/BUSINESS01/605020351/10- 14

Rocky

odie6l

I heard a rumor today that Mazda will be getting a model above the 6 called the Mazda7 and will be based on the Ford Falcon XR6 from Australia. Then they will also be getting the New Mazda8 (Japan version MPV) for 2008. Also was told the Falcon Ute (Think Ranchero) will be called the Mazda9. I don't know how true these rumors are, but with Car-N-Driver running an article about the Ford Falcon's (XR6 Turbo, XR8 GT, UTE) with it's last issue... I could see them coming here. Whether or not they will be Ford's, Mazda's or both is beyond me.

Odie
Odie's Garage

carguy58

"I heard a rumor today that Mazda will be getting a model above the 6 called the Mazda7 and will be based on the Ford Falcon XR6 from Australia."

I would have thought that if Mazda put a car out that was going to be slotted above the Mazda 6 it would be based off the Ford 500 and not a Ford car from Australia. Thats shocking that Mazda would use a Ford from Australia to be a basis for one of their(mazda)US future vehicles.

odie6l

Maybe the main reason is to have more of a Zoom-Zoom with the larger vehicle instead of a blahh look. The other reason I can see (I will check when I get home), but I think I remember the article had stated that the Falcon is built in Hiroshima. Wouldn't that mean Mazda is already building this vehicle as a Ford product similar to the way they built the Probe for Ford years back.

Odie
Odie's Garage

bumpy

Naah, the current Falcon is made at the plant in Broadmeadows which was built in 1959 for the original Australian Falcon.

odie6l

sorry, forgot to check when I got home. No it doesn't say where they are built but the article also talks about the European Focus that is shared with the Mazda3 platform.

Odie
Odie's Garage

odie6l

I asked 2 local Mazda dealers today about any update on the 2007 MY for the Mazda5. I was told that Mazda is being very tight lipped about the '07, and that the dealers usually find out by end of april any news about model changes so they can push the current MY out before public becomes aware of changes. I was told by 1 of the 2 dealers that there is a rumor of the 215hp V6 from the Mazda6 coming in for a Grand Touring trim and a possible Speed5 trim between the Sport and Touring trim levels (which would mean 4 trims - Sport, Speed5, Touring, Grand Touring). I don't know how much of this holds water, but I guess we will need to wait and find out.

Odie
Odie's Garage

wonderwall

I think Mazda should put the Escape hybrid motor in the 5.

audia8q

I think Mazda should put the Escape hybrid motor in the 5.

Actually they will be putting the Hybrid set up in the 2008 Tribute which should appear early next year.

aviboy97

I have yet to hear of any changes to the Mazda5 only 1 year into production. Also, the Mazdaspeed trim of all past, current, and up-coming Mazdaspeed vehicles is the top of the line, not the middle. IMHO, I don't see the Mazda5 ever getting the Mazdaspeed treatment. It would be neat to see one, but, I don't see there really being a market for it.

I would like to see a Mazdaspeed RX-8 with sequential twin turbos at least 300hp that would dust the Nismo 350Z, or another Mazdaspeed MX-5 before a Mazdaspeed5

schmidtj

I think Mazda is finally getting it's act together. I have a friend that has an '06 Mazda 5 Sport. She loves it. Another friend of mine has an '05 Mazda 6i. It is the best car she has owned. I think the next ('08) 6 needs to grow a little bigger, but keep it's sports car feel. A revoutionary restyle would be nice. The Mazda 3 is a great small car, possibly the best. In my opinion the butt ugly Honda Civic doesn't stand a chance. Just because it's a 'Honda" doesn't mean it's better...anymore. The Tribute is in need of a re-design badly, but that is coming. The B-Series is also in need of a big re-design. The Mazda 5 could use a little more power, but otherwise is just fine. I have driven both the 5 and 6. The RX-7 Sells in small numbers, but wasn't it suppose too? The MX5 is the best sports car, right??? I think the new MPV would do great here, as a bigger option to the 5. The new CX7 and CX9 look like winners, especillay against the boring Highlander, the dated and borning Pilot, and the crappy Fords and Chevrolets. I do think that Mazda needs a small car priced under the 3 to go head-to-head with the Aveo, Accent, Rio, Fit, Yaris, Forenza/Reno, and Versa. Maybe Mazda will bring over the next 2....

audia8q

The Tribute is in need of a re-design badly, but that is coming.

no Tribute at all for 2007 but the Tribute will return in 2007 as a 2008 model with a fresh new look.

rlyon

From what I've read the 500 is a dud. So I can see why Mazda would be wise to go another route.

I want the Japanese MPV!!

carguy58

"From what I've read the 500 is a dud. So I can see why Mazda would be wise to go another route."

Well, the reason the 500 is a dud is because of its bland styling and underpowered 203 HP engine I think.

carguy58

"I think Mazda is finally getting it's act together."

Yeah they are getting their act toghether but it doesn't show up sales numbers wise in the US though. Mazda is pretty profitable now though.

"In my opinion the butt ugly Honda Civic doesn't stand a chance. Just because it's a 'Honda" doesn't mean it's better...anymore."

Uh, the new Civic is selling pretty well. I'm not fond of the sedans look but the Coupe has a nice style to it. I have to say the 3 looks better than the Civic Coupe or Sedan models though.

"The RX-7 Sells in small numbers, but wasn't it suppose too?"

Thats RX-8 now not RX-7.

"The new CX7 and CX9 look like winners, especillay against the boring Highlander, the dated and borning Pilot, and the crappy Fords and Chevrolets."

I agree the Highlander is starting to look old. Ford-Wouldn't the Freestyle be the direct competitor to the CX's? Chevy doesn't have a competitor to the CX-'s though.

carguy58

"no Tribute at all for 2007 but the Tribute will return in 2007 as a 2008 model with a fresh new look."

So, will an 08 Tribute come out early like in March of 07 as an 08 model?

audia8q

I don't know the exact timetable yet...but I've heard Jan 2007 as a target date.

rorr

Speaking of target dates......what about the release of the upcoming Mazdaspeed3? I've heard dates of anywhere from mid-summer of this year to early spring of '07.

audia8q

I keep hearing late fall...subject to change

aviboy97

Early fall for the MS3. Our first allocation was placed yesterday.

carguy58

Mazda claims they have only a 30 day inventory for the 3 and a limited inventory for the MX-5 Miata as well. I don;t get how Mazda can only have a 30 day(limited)inventory of 3's while 3's sales were down a little bit from May 2005 figures. Wouldn't it make sense that Mazda would have as much as inventory 3's in May 2006 as they did in May 2005 but Mazda claims limited inventory but yet sales were down of the 3? Is it that Mazda is running low on inventory on 3's because more of the US buying is putting emphasis on buying cars that have good fuel miledage that the 3 is a hot ticket? Mazda sold 11,600 3's in my compared with May 2005 in which they sold 12K-12.2K of 3's.

I also have a theory on why RX-8 sales are down: fuel mileadge.

audia8q

worldwide demand...they are turning inventory faster than it can be replaced. Mazda North America has to fight other markets for production space and cars.