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The fact that Ford is promoting this as an exclusive feature really irks me. They obviously never tried it out in the Odyssey.
I guess Honda didn't think it was that big a deal. I don't even think it is mentioned in the owner's manual (which would lead one to conclude that is wasn't designed that way - when we bought the van, the salesman showed us. regardless of it it was intentional, it works well).
As for the storage wells, anyone with van that has the foldable seat will tell you that it is a pain to have to clear those out whenever you want to stow the seat. You end up keeping the seat either up most the time or down. Going back and forth isn't really an option unless you are religious about keeping them empty - sort of defeats the purpose of extra storage room, eh?
With Chrysler's "Stow 'n Go" 2nd & third row seats and just about everybody else's stowable 3rd row seats (+ the latest rumour out of the Honda camp that the 2005 Odyssey will also have stowable 2nd and 3rd row seats), GM's short-sightedness is even more apparent. What I don't understand is that, in the Opel Zafira (their European "mini"minvan), GM has had a pretty innovative seating sytem called Flex-7, whereby 2nd & third row seats all fold flat, for years. And the upcoming 2nd generation Zafira will have an improved version of this system. Could not GM have reworked Flex-7 for their NA Minivans? (oh, I almost forgot, they're not minivans now but pseudo-SUV crossover sport vans!) I guess they'd really better hammer away at those fuel-economy #'s, 'cause that's about the only advantage they're going to have.
Why make stupid assertions that arent based in reality? There are plenty of other domestic models that CR rates well.
~alpha
As for Malibu reviews being great, that would be a bit generous. Every review I've seen has been favorable, but most everyone says its a solid single instead of the home run GM needs if they are ever going to take on Camry and Accord.
Is there a rule at GM that a Chevy sedan has to have dull styling? When people drive their new car home they kind of want the neighbors to notice. Why couldn't the Malibu have good looks to go with good engineering?
alpha : Really? They recommend some domestic brands, more than ever true. But when I read reviews of new cars it's quite clear what they prefer. It's not stupid it is reality but perhaps hate was too strong a word.
Seems to me, I notice the CTS a lot quicker than anything from Acura.
-juice
GM and their apologists just don't get it. You need to do better, not just be "competitive". It's the only way to regain market share and profitability.
It will be the G6's job to compete with those who prefer the pretty face of the Passat - with luck the G6 will stay out of the garage more than the Passat.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I'll keep updating you when more information comes OUT!
It is a bit pricey in Europe already. I do not think many US buyers would pay with the added premium a E1.22 to the dollar will bring.
BTW, logic1....the Zafira would be perfect for our small family, so anytime GM wants to bring it over would be fine by me. They'd have to split the difference in price between the Vibe (around 20K $CDN, give or take) and the maxivan entry price (which seems to be around 30K $CDN, give or take, for me to be interested, though.
Question is, can that same engine pull this van without straining? Dunno, but I'm not holding my breath.
-juice
All that can be said for the 3.5L in GMs 'sportcrossovers'-
Car and Driver ran the 8Pass Sienna to 60 in 7.8 seconds, and the Malibu LT to 60 in 7.9 seconds..... now, we all know the 'Bu is what? a good 500 lbs lighter than the quadruplets? Probably not the most able powertrain, and even if the Malibu averages 24-26MPG in mixed driving, that is going to suffer.
~alpha
That may be gearing, or poor tires (and they are poor), but torque was impressive. Fuel efficiency is too, CR said the V6 got better mileage than their 4 cylinder Camry and Accord, and you can't ignore that key advantage.
But...but...in a heavier mininvan you may be giving up both acceleration and efficiency.
Also, the bar is constantly moving. Chevy had the 3.0l V6 Camry along for comparison, not the new 3.3l V6 (which is also the engine in the Sienna).
We'll see. I'll have to try it out. Malibu impressed me. Will the vans? Dunno. I'm sure not as much.
-juice
freelander?
Not if they have good parenting!
"BREAKTHROUGH"
2007-2008......those who want all new will have to wait 3-4 more years.....
So.......I am guessing 10+ second 0-60 time.
Compare apples to apples which would be the Grand Caravan. You'll find equally equipped, little or no cost advantage to the Odyssey or any of the other minivans. The short wheelbase model is not very popular, in fact only GM and Chrysler still bother to make one. If you buy one, you should be sure to get a great deal, because the resale is very poor.
I'm no big Chrysler fan but the Caravan is pretty much top notch in terms of features, style and design.
~alpha
That said, I'm still trying my best to avoid vans all together.
;-)
I don't trust DC reliability one bit, but their vans are almost unbeatable steals otherwise. Styling, check. Decent performance, check. Features, check. Space, check. Up until the new Sienna hit the market, if I were looking to buy a minivan, I'd have been in the Dodge/Chrysler showrooms..
This dealer is no-haggle, that price even includes freight. It's a Grand with a 3.8l V6, too, not the weaker engines.
-juice
-juice
One thing I noticed that I really disliked about the new GM vans: their version of the fold-flat seats doesn't create a "canyon" in the back to store it in. Instead, the fold forward causing the cargo floor to be raised up by about 3 inches. The Odyssey, Freestar, Monterey, MPV, Quest, Sienna, and the 2005 DC Vans have their rear seat fold backwards in a tumbling motion to save more room. GM must've forgot about that...
~alpha
As an aside I drove by the Freestar plant here in town yesterday and noticed the shipping yard had thousands of Freestars sitting. Lot was 3/4 full, not good.