By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
It folds, it carries 3 whatever bike(I have my wife bike with a baby seat mounted vertically), it is very sturdy(no rattles). Allen rack seems to be on the low end(meaning it may be rattling)
-Water
K
Sorry, envious American here.
TWRX
Only 3 quality gripes after a thorough going over of the car, one I expected, one caused by careless handling, and the third by I don't know what.
The first one (expected) was all the tires set to 40 lbs. Reset the pressure this morning before I left for work and it certainly rides better now.
The second (careless handling) is a long thin scratch in the top of the center dash compartment. They'll have to replace the lid for that. I looked for things like that yesterday when I picked up the car, but it was outside in the sun, and unless you're in the shade you really can't see the scratch.
The third one I just missed (shame on me) is that the turbo gauge is indexed slightly clockwise, such that the "0" is not horizontal. If I installed it myself I could have done better... but upon looking closer, not only is the gauge indexed off of center, but the shroud assembly around the steering column is also indexed clockwise. I'm kicking myself for missing that one because I wouldn't have taken it off the lot like that.
Oh well, I've got a service appt for a week from Friday and we'll see what they say.
Anyone out there ever have the shroud off? I'm not adverse to trying to realign it myself if its not too painful.
Not to sound negative though, because I absolutely love this car.....
If anyone else has a chance can they see how level the tops of the steering column shrouds are? I know the one on my other Forester was very level.
Thanks
Larry
as far as I am concerned, you can have them all even without the invasion (you aren't too good in that anyway
lfdal:
you open an interesting question: when normal healthy care for things changes into OCD. Any new thing is going to get bruised very quickly and that "newness" is going to wear. I know how upset I was to find small scratches in clear coat where dealer's logo used to be (I got my car through dealer exchange so it was prepared twice). Well, after a couple of days I took that car for 150 Km off road trip. Oh boy, did my prospective change after that
-subkid - I agree, being an old geezer now my cars tend not to get much rough use except when they have to, but new is new and even though I might beat it up later, its gonna be right at the start. The cener armrest console is a great example - there's no scratchs on the lid now, but I bet there will be within a month.
The zero mark on mine is exactly at the horizontal diameter, and the column shroud is dead flat. My only minor quibble is that with engine off, my needle is about a half-needle-thickness below zero. I don't think there's any adjustment to zero the pointer, and it's not far off anyway.
The gauge displays intake manifold pressure (or vacuum, which is merely a pressure smaller than atmospheric) downstream of the throttle butterfly. There is no 'good' or 'bad'. The lowest reading you'll see is when you shut the throttle at high RPM - that's when the engine draws maximum vacuum. It will also read almost that low at idle, when (again) the throttle is closed. Readings on the gauge are roughly proportional to induction airflow sucked (at small throttle openings, drawing a vacuum) or forced (with larger throttle openings and when the turbo is compressing) into the engine.
Fuel flows are proportional to airflow. Therefore, readings far down on the negative (vacuum) scale accompany small throttle openings and low power output (and therefore low fuel consumption). Readings high on the positive region indicate that the turbocharger is singing its song and packing additional air into the cylinders (well above unitary atmospheric pressure), with accompanying high power production and (inevitably) high fuel consumption.
http://www.atlyrics.com/quotes/c/canadianbacon.html
ballistic: does that gauge serve any performance purpose? Can you get better performance reacting to its reading, or it's there just to inform you what's going on?
BTW, there is a difference in tires between X and XT. On X, there is a white lettering, on XT it's black. I prefer XT's
K
It's actually a very nice feature for me, it's the best way to cinch up a child safety seat or a booster and keep the kid in place.
Larry: congrats. You can't catch every detail. The dealer should work with you, for the first 30 days especially.
-juice
Other than the novelty of knowing when you're on boost, the turbo gauge can help you improve fuel milage by letting you know when to back off the throttle. Unfortuantley the latter is easier to accomplish with cars where boost comes on higher up in the RPM band (ie. WRX). I suspect the XT is on boost from quite a bit lower.
FYI, the X/XS tires can be mounted with the white letters inwards.
Ken
Juice - thanks, I'm hoping that's how the dealer feels about it too.
Larry
I have a 98 S 5-spd, seriously considering upgrading to a XT AT for the extra performance at high altitude. Drove an AT several weeks ago - great performance but only a short drive as the dealer would not allow long drives. No Reno/Carson City dealers have any MT's, so I can't try one. Also all dealers have about a $2500 dealer markup for XT's - which I would never pay anyway - so probably will buy through an inter net dealer, which means no test drive until the car arrives.
I think I would prefer an AT as the MT sounds very much like my 98 - short 1st gear and big gap to 2nd - which I am tired of putting up with, especially up here in at Lake Tahoe where all the roads are two lanes, winding, up and down, with stop signs. Also the altitude is a big factor - 6250 ft, even Reno is 4800 ft.
Specifically, could some of you AT owners give me some feedback concerning the performance of the AT? Does it "hunt" for gears or downshift when crusing on the freeway at 75-80 mph and you give it a little gas? What about going up and down long and or steep grades - does it constantly change gears every time you let up or press down on the accelerator? What about accelerating out of curves?
I have never owned an AT car (I used to be a sports car guy) and all the AT's I have driven in the mountain's have had these hunting traits which I find extreamly annoying. But I am really tired of having to put up with "bad" MT ratios at slow speeds and going through two, and now maybe three, clutchs in 110,000 miles.
My 98 will not downshift into 1st unless stopped or double clutched and 2nd is to "high" to start off in or pull away from blind corners at 10/15 mph. The short 1st gear has just became real tiring - 25 mph is about 4400 rpm and 30 mph is about 5800 rpm. Without being able to drive an XT MT, I don't want to get stuck in the same situation.
TIA, TC
At normal day-to-day RPMs, you'll already be shifting into second halfway across intersections.
They geared it for performance.
-juice
On short trips and intermittent climbs and descents, its not nearly as noticable. Obviously, MT gives you the greatest control.
My wife's Audi A6Q with Tiptronic AT gives you the ability to "shift on the fly" between gears when you want to or use the AT when you dont. It has proven to be a perfect combo for the mountains and the kind of driving we do, including steep climbs and descents on icy roads.That's one of the reasons Ive decided to wait and drive the new Legacy with the Sportshift AT before I decide which to buy, Forster XT or Legacy GT.
Mark
We have an AT, but I haven't driven it enough to give detailed feedback.. aside from the lag switching between R and D, there didn't seem to be any delay downshifting manually and it's generally very smooth. I haven't driven any extended trips yet to know if it hunts a lot.
PS, an IM conversation with my wife (of "I love love love this car" fame):
*** (4:04:49 PM): do you wnat to know two cool things about my car
*** (4:05:15 PM): if you leave the headlights on by accident, it doesnt beep to tell you you left them on...instead, it turns them off for you
*** (4:05:49 PM): and 2, i can easily smoke out most cars on the highway, including my first spotted Evo
*** (4:06:06 PM): and i was only going 80, unknowingly o course...
*** (4:06:13 PM): before i knew it the car hit 90!
*** (4:06:18 PM): but i slowed down immediately
*** (4:06:27 PM): and it still didnt go over 4000 revs
Good to see she's paying attention to the break-in procedure (if not the speed limit!) ;-)
"...and it still didnt go over 4000 revs"
LOL!!
-jim
Bottom line - you'll probably be happy with the AT because the XT's power (especially torque) is so great that it won't be shifting up and down very much.
Our 99 Forester S with automatic has 60k miles - virtually all in the Santa Cruz Mts. Grades are steep and roads are narrow and winding though altitude tops out at 3000 ft.
The AT gear spacing is well suited to the engine's power curve, so even with only 165 hp it doesn't "hunt" much because the torque is high-ish (160 ft-lbs). On long inclines above 4000-5000 ft (like I-80 over Donner Summit) it will kick down to 3rd and stay there.
Because its a console shift lever, and I can select 1, 2, 3 or D4 its easy to hold it in any gear by shifting it manually. When descending, its a big help to hold it in 2nd or 3rd as appropriate. When climbing on twisty mountain roads its also better to hold it in a lower gear so it doesn't shift up when you let off the gas coming into a turn.
On long grades, if the AT shifts down I'll sometimes select 3 to further minimize the possibility of "hunting".
The XT appears to derive its significant increase in horsepower from a huge increase in torque. I haven't driven the XT, but I think the automatic would be a very good choice - especially if it easily allows manual shifting when needed.
My wife will not be driving this vehicle for the most part since she won't turn loose of her Audi A4 3.0.
The biggest problem we have had with the outback has been the brakes. Had the rotors turned three times and replaced once. They do not seem to like the New York weather much. Also the headlights on the 2001 outback
have not been overly impressive. I hope the forester headlights are better.I really think I would like a silver XT MT. Has the brake problem been resolved for 2004? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Juice glad to see you are still out there. Always enjoy your commentary.
Thanks
Don
I've owned a 2000S Forester for four years. Brakes always felt a bit mushy, but they performed well. No problems in 52K miles with components failing. But I'm a flatlander who drives carefully, esp in winter, so I've been kind to the brakes.
Headlights are another matter. I was surprised to find Subaru is using the same headlamps, basically the same headlight system, as my MY2000, which is one of the dimmest headlights I've seen.
Subaru made minor changes but not much improvement in visibility, distance that the beam illuminates, or the light spectrum.
That's disappointing for us living with with long winter nights. And it's strange when you tick off the many other improvements in vehicle safety over MY2000(eg much better brakes, SAB, that now offer head & torso protection, major structural upgrades to passenger cage protection). I don't get it.
Audi, in fact most Euro automakers, do better much better with headlight offerings. Since I bought my 2000 Forester, many Asian autos upgraded headlight systems as well as offering HID lamps on top trim offerings. OK, I realize this means higher vehicle prices, but I'd gladly pay for the option.
There are aftermarket bulbs worth trying, at small expense. Phillips makes one for the H4 lamp on the Forester.
Crummy headlights notwithstanding, I think MY2004 is worth buying. I have one on order. For my money the 2004 Forester is one of the best vehicles made for safety, handling (esp XS),and reliability.
The 2004 brakes, introduced in MY2003 are much better than those on MY2000. Excellent performance on independent test tracks wrt stopping power and brake fade. "Feel" is better too. WRT durability: drivers influence that a lot but Forester is built in Japan and tends to have fewer defects, compared to OBs. Hear more brake complaints from OB owners, if it's not an OEM part issue, I say look at those other factors, and maybe buy a Forester.
Hope this is some help,
Jake
Cheers
Pat
Beech Mtn. NC
Eastern America's Highest Town
I do have another question however. Does the turbo need a cool down period after driving than shutting down?
The last time I had a turbo was on a Mercury Cougar XR7 145 HP (1984).
Thanks,
Don
I'm sitting on my wallet in Asheville until the Legacy GT wagon arrives next summer and seeing a therapist to deal with my Xtreme Turbo Envy in the meantime!
Mark
C&D in an earlier issue stated steering for the 2.5X is 3.0 lock to lock.
why the longer turn on the XT
Don: No need to cool down the turbo, although it couldn't hurt. I can't recall the link, but Subaru has designed the turbo so that it continues to siphon coolant through it even after the engine is shut off. This action should be more than sufficient to cool your turbo after normal driving. After a spirited run where the turbo is still glowing red, I'd drive gently for a few minutes before shutting off, just to be sure.
Ken
Undoubtedly a true HID option (which is in fact available on Foresters in other markets - why can't American buyers get the good stuff?) would be even better, but I'm completely satisfied with the XT's lighting.
Kullenberg: I'm 5'11" and have adjusted my seat nearly as high as it'll go and just far enough back that I have to stretch to put the clutch all the way down - and I can hop in back in complete comfort with about 2" of space between my knees and the seatback. I no longer have any space concerns about the Forester at all. I do, however, wish the throttle was about 2" farther away.
Thanks for your comment; as I may have told you before, I'm 6'5", with a 32" inseam, so most of my height is in my body. In addition, I'm 68, and not as flexible as I used to be, so getting in and out becomes an issue. For instance, the Outback wagon is a pain! Having said all that, I also need a vehicle that is extremely snow worthy; thus my short list has narrowed down to the 4Runner, Honda Pilot, Jeep Liberty Diesel (doubtful if it will be out in time) and the XT, not necessarily in order of preference, as it's not established yet. These all come in at/under $3oK
Cheers
Pat
Thanks to those that replied, but you can't compare an XS to an XT. Also can someone tell me if you can accelerate/de-accelerate on the freeway without it shifting gears? AT's that "hunt" between gears drive me crazy - I won't but one.
With respect to getting an MT, I don't care about the gas mileage - so long as it's around 20 or better. And high revs AT SPEED don't bother me as I am use to reving some sports cars to 7-8000 rpm.
It's a drivability issue with me. Because everything is a two lane road up here, you spend almost all of your time between 10 and 40 mph especially in the winter. The problem with my 98 S 5-spd is there is NO power below 2000 rpm up here at 6500 feet. This coupled with the big gap between 1st and 2nd makes it tedious to drive at low speeds - below 25 mph. It won't pull in 2nd (2000 rpm is around 19 mph) and double clutching into 1st at 3800 and then shifting up again after 200 feet all the time is no fun.
Given the XT MT gear ratios, and not being able to drive one, I am concerned about the same drivable issue.
BTW, I have driven a WRX wagon, but being use to instant power from sports cars, I can't stand the turbo lag, so would never consider buying one.
TIA, TC
Tahoecharlie: No need to worry; an XT 5-speed delivers astounding power in 2nd gear at 1400 rpms, and remains flexible clear down to about 1,000 rpms (8-9mph). Plus, the turbo solves your thin-air issues. For what you described, I'd be surprised if you *ever* downshift to 1st unless you have to come to a full stop. I never do.
TC
Can't help you with oral comments Fryingbologna....
Steve, Host
I purchased my bulbs from here:
http://www.autolamps-online.com/halogen/visionplus1.htm
No retailer in the US will carry these since they're not DOT approved. The link above charges US$28 including shipping. I've bought two pair from them already.
Ken
My take on the general consensus seems to be just give the car a few moments to calm down before shutting it off if you just ran a race, otherwise not to worry.
PS: headlights.. I think the headlights on the XT are much stronger than my WRX.
Ken and Jack make fair points so I'm willing to back track a little: "crummy" as an adjective for Forester's headlights is too harsh. When I wrote that word I had just driven a very dark interstate highway. At one point, I was passed by a BMW with HID. What a difference they made: seemed to throw low beams much farther than my Forester, and I've no doubt intensity and quality of illumination was superior to my Forester's. I'm with Jack, wish SOA was distributing Foresters with HIDs.
While Ken (and Jack, hey, welcome back Jack) is probably correct that Forester's headlights meet or exceed DOT's spec, I wonder if that spec is tough enough, especially for older drivers, who will require more candlepower and lower wavelengths (compared to young) to "see" what's before them.
Other issue is the distance illuminated. I'd say it's an issue for all ages (especially those who may be pushing the speed limits). The trouble is "one can't see, what one can't see" until it's too late to stop.
While the Forester's headlights arn't as critical to the collision avoidance performance as brakes or emergency handling characteristics, I think they merit more attention from Subaru. Particularly since it seems many Forester buyers are getting older (Crocodile Dundees driven more by what's outside, than "what's inside").
I'd welcome a better OEM halogen. HIDs may not be a panacea. Consumer Reports recently tested 41 new vehicles (fourth with HIDs) and found distance illuminated by HIDs wasn't as a rule greater than halogens. HIDs create brighter, crisper illumination, not necessarily a greater distance illuminated.
As for cargo space in the Forester, I agree it's a bit less than OB, but it seems more accessible due to the structure of the Forester vs OB. OB sleeker profile has a price, access is one (especially for tall drivers: I can wear a Stetson in my Forester, something I could never do in an OB).
Hope this helps,
Jake
I appreciated your comments (& Jack's, etal) wrt to these bulbs. I've got a friend in Montana who loves them, though they arn't something one finds at the local NAPA, etal.
I've not installed them in my MY2000 but will when I pick-up my 2004.
Jake
I was hoping SOA would have a pdf for those of us who drive on the right side of the road. If they do, I can't seem to find it. I'd appreciate a URL.
Thanks,
Jake
http://www.zainobros.com/
Cheers
Pat
Zaino Car Polishes/Products--Your Experiences (Part 2)
Steve, Host
libertycat "Jeep Liberty diesel" Aug 13, 2003 9:41pm
Steve, Host