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Comments
CR wrote: "Six out of 10 vehicles with HIDs and 9 out of 31 with halogens reached the 400-foot marker on our test course with low beams, compared with an average of 335 feet for all models tested."
That's 60% for the HIDs but only 29% for the halogens.
DOT standards require that foreign manufacturers actually degrade their headlight performance to comply.
We currently operate four cars, the two European cars I've converted to European standard e-code headlight lenses, the Honda had acceptable illumination to begin with and the 4th car, a rusty old example of Detroit iron used for excursions to the beach and veterinarian, is hopeless because there are no improved headlights available.
In any case, simply adding brighter bulbs does not correct the underlying problem and may create new problems.
In any event, I'm finding that the low and high beam patterns produced by my XT reflectors are up there with the best DOT lighting I've seen. If they'd been poor, I would have reluctantly considered importing a pair of European Forester e-code headlamp shells, but I've been pleasantly surprised by the OEM units. With the clear Philips premium bulbs, I'm satisfied. I may still install a set of quality, long-range driving lights, but the Forester's nose doesn't provide any good mounting locations.
Jake sez, "especially for older drivers, who will require more candlepower and lower wavelengths (compared to young) to "see" what's before them."
Assuming by 'lower' you mean 'longer', HID systems go the other direction - to shorter, 'higher' wavelengths. Maybe they're counterproductive for those of us in the Geritol set.
I actually don't like the expensive HID lamps on my sister's '02 Audi Avant Quattro 3.0. They have a razor-sharp horizontal cutoff with no upward-rightward slash, and thus have essentially zero light anywhere above the cutoff. When driving on undulating roadways (very common where I live), every time the road rises in front of you, you have no visiblity whatsoever beyond where the cutoff hits the pavement very close in front of you. In residential neighborhood settings, I call that dangerous. When oncoming traffic is frequent, you can't realistically be going back and forth between low and high beams every few hundred feet.
HID units like those on her Audi would take some serious getting used to. I very much prefer the lighting my XT delivers.
In city traffic situations I find the torquey 2.5 has no problem getting off the line quickly.
My own self imposed preference is not to exceed 80 MPH in the Washoe Valley flats. The X gets there and beyond smoothly and quietly if I don’t pay attention with just moderate pedal. For an AT it just shifts quietly and effectively. With 80% highway and 20% city I’m getting right at 28 mpg on 87 Octane. The XT AT should comparably get mpg in the low 20’s with the 10%-15% more expensive premium. And getting to 80 MPH flat out in the XT would be much too brief, :>)
On the Mt. Rose highway I drop the gated shifter from D to 3 for the entire middle part of that steep twisty trip. I don’t perceive much in gear hunting at all. So even the lowly X, thanks to the Subarus wonderful AWD, has me sometimes chickening out on a few steep curves.
I’d suggest test driving the AT version of the of the X/XS versus the XT at the Carson City dealer. Turn left out of the dealership and go north on 395 up the nearby and fairly steep Lakeview hill stretch. When I take that hill up, I drop the shifter from D to 3 for better pedal response and eliminate any gear hunt. At 65 MPH the X is pulling 4K rpm in 3; then at the top shift back up to D and rpm drops to ~ 2.5K. Try it a couple of times once with the shifter in D the whole time then again just using 3. At the same time continue a bit into Washoe Valley to get a sense for highway cruising.
Yep in that Tahoe basin environment sometimes you can make better time on roller blades versus any car. So mpg and performance at Tahoe will suffer no matter what you drive.
Wish I had your quandary, decisions decisions. Have fun.
I have the same problem with our '01 Forester's headlights, which as you know, are not HIDs. I've had them re-aimed, and they are a bit better now, but still not great on dark hilly roads.
Bob
If you drive your '01 to a vertical wall and turn on the headlights, don't they produce (above the horizontal cutoff) two upward-rightward slashes of light? If so, that gives you at least some light above the cutoff, and that's what's completely missing from the HIDs on my sister's Avant. In addition, the horizontal cutoff itself is a bit 'fuzzy' on my XT (giving a litte light above), whereas on her car it is absolute - lots of light below, none whatsoever above. I'm the one who recommended that she spend big bucks for the HID option, and I regret that now.
Right you are: I meant to say "higher" frequency and "shorter" wavelength (ie color biased toward the blue-white, instead of yellow). Especially in older drivers, such a bias improves both contrast and brightness (within the illumination "cone").
This can (as you said) create a problem due to very sharp boundaries between light and dark (vs halogens). Not sure how that's baked in the cake. Is it due more to higher light frequency or is it an issue with beam focus, etc? The latter could be more easily remedied.
HIDs as offered today have pluses and minuses wrt to older drivers. It could be that improvements to halogen systems are a better option. But no matter which, buyers need to be aware of what is possible in headlights not just what is allowed by DOT, or offered in America by automakers like Subaru.
BTW as we age, glare recovery takes longer. HIDs, especially if poorly adjusted, pose hazards to on-coming drivers too (akin to flashbulb blindness).
Bob,
Thanks for the details on the CR headlight test I alluded to in my post. Headlights are indeed more subtle and complex than they may appears at first glance. They get too little "respect", witness the proliferation of those inane colored bulbs that do little to help, and often diminish illumination.
Jake
John
To echo Jack's comments, the Forester's headlights are pretty darn good for DOT lights. I don't think they get much better without going to e-codes.
One other thing you can do is to adjust the aim of your fog lights to use them as auxiliary lighting. There should be a single screw that allows some vertical adjustment.
While the fogs are not driving lights, they do help light up the road much more than with the low beams alone. I use my fogs in conjunction with my low beams whenever I'm driving on a dark twisty mountain road.
What I really wish Subaru would offer is not more lighting up front but a single fog light in the rear! Those are crucial in some of this foggy Bay Area weather!
Ken
My '98 has excellent visibility with slightly re-aimed lamps and no one flashes at me thinking I have the brights on. I also have a pair of NAPA super white H4 lamps (xenon) that provide better and whiter illumination at standard power at a cost of $20 per pair. They are easier to find and less expensive than the others mentioned above, but probably less sophisticated in design.
If you want to see really bad headlamps, check those on the early Chrysler Concordes and similar models. They are very thin slits and use the awful H7 lamps that have the filament in the opposite plane from all other headlamps. Worse, the lenses cloud over with time. When it comes to headlamps, bigger is better.
The nose (and headlamp aim) definitely does rise under WOT! Not sure that's my solution to driving in residential areas, though...
Maybe yours are different, but most of the 'super white xenon' bulbs I've seen have an all-over blue tint on the tube. The tint acts as a blocking filter, taking out most of the yellow wavelengths. That leaves less light on the road, not more. I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole.
They were far too expensive for me I mainly wanted the boost gauge. I would also have liked to get the oil temp gauge that comes in the cluster, but the third dial (voltmeter) is IMO next to useless. So I settled for the popular column-mount boost gauge, at a third of the Performance Gauge Pack's price. Plus, I still have my dashtop cubby as the future site of a portable GPS unit.
These are bright white bulbs with a xenon gas mixture, whiter than standard halogens and no blue coating. Before these, I had a set of the earlier Hella/Osram super whites. They were not as bright and lasted only a few months. You are right, the blue coated things give less light and usually have flaws in the coating that distort the pattern.
As a sidenote, many lighting specialists recommend installing heavy-duty wiring harnesses and relays, to assure that full battery voltage bypasses the headlamp on-off switch and actually reaches the headlights in order to maximize their light output. However, the wiring diagrams in the current Forester service manuals appear to indicate that they're already equipped with headlight-circuit relays - and that's consistent with the audible 'click' I hear when turning the low beams on and also when activating the high beams. Certainly sounds like relays to me. Therefore, except for the possible benefit of heavier-gauge wiring, it appears that new Foresters have already taken care of at least part of the the voltage-reduction problem.
"When I finally decide to go ahead and get an XT, I very much want the auxiliary gauges. But Subaru's price is out in the Plaides. Has anyone come up with an alternative?"
Expensive, true. Another drawback in addition to losing the handy storage bin (as Jack pointed out), is Subaru's stock location of the oil temp sending unit inside the oil drain bolt. Installed here, you can't use a Fumoto quick-drain valve, and the sender and wire are subject to damage every time you change your oil. Of course, you could just relocate it to an engine galley port.
One of the alternatives is to purchase the gauge pod housing parts from Subaru (assuming they sell the pod assembly separately from the gauges - I'm pretty sure they do) and install three aftermarket gauges of your own choosing. Omori and Greddy gauges are popular (but expensive) because they offer gauges that closely resemble Subaru's stock instrument design and illumination. This route may end up costing you almost as much as the "Performance Gauge Pack," but at least you can choose your gauges. Less expensive gauges are offered by Auto Meter and VDO.
Another option is to buy this complete center pod, gauge, sender and hardware package from WRXtra ($400 - I'm not sure if this pod housing fits the Forester). Note: you will lose your storage bin AND your digital clock with this setup (Subaru's center pod retains the clock) - but if a clock is important to you, ask WRXtra to switch one of the gauges for a clock gauge.
Defi also offers this freaky-looking center gauge pod. And speaking of Defi, you could go a completely different route with this six-gauge electronic engine information display. ($$)
You can also install one, two or three gauges on your A-pillar. I'm not a big fan of this gauge location because I believe it's slightly distracting by placing the gauges too close to your eyes (at least w/ three-gauge pods) and it also blocks your left-hand visibility ever so slightly. And as Juice once pointed out, gauges protruding from this location could pose a potential head injury threat in an accident. I'm not sure if the Impreza pillar pods will fit Foresters, but you can check Lo-tek and Auto Meter.
I believe the ultimate auxiliary gauge location is a replacement Instrument Cluster Bezel. These are currently only offered by Auto Meter for the WRX (a shop in Houston is also working on a prototype) and only hold two 52mm (2 1/16") gauges. Hopefully, eventually a Forester model and four-pod versions will be offered. It would be a good idea to write Auto Meter about your interest.
For my money, the Instrument Cluster Bezel is the best location (except perhaps a Heads-Up Display) and I wish that Subaru would adopt it for their auxiliary gauge location, perhaps even designing a four-pod version using 45mm gauges (same size as the current steering column-mount boost gauge).
Of course, if you are running low on space, you can always install these aircraft instrument-like "dual combination" gauges by Westach (warning: may crash Safari). This company will pair together just about any gauge combo you like, along with custom logo, lettering, etc. printed on the gauge face.
Something to keep in mind with all electrical (as opposed to mechanical) auxiliary gauges is the gauge dimming issue (except Defi link systems which have a built-in dimmer). You won't be able to control the dimming of your gauges simply by hooking up the gauge illumination wire(s) to Subaru's instrument light circuit if your gauge does not have a separate ground wire for the bulb and the electric gauge itself - most do not. This is because Subaru uses a reverse instrument illumination system: +12v = no light, 0v = 100% light. You can solder together an inversion circuit, install a separate rheostat (dimmer switch), or just let your gauges stay at 100%, which may be rather bright.
Plz let us know which gauge options you decide to go with.
-tom
Ken
Go to this scoobymods thread, scroll down a little, and read the "Impreza/Forester Performace Gauge Pack Installation Manual." ....
One thing I am unsure about is whether the current OEM gauge pod design retains the digital clock. I've seen two pics, including one on Subaru's site, that shows it without the clock, and one pic that shows it with the clock (scroll down to "XT Performance Gauge Pack" ... though the accompanying text does say, "Replaces standard clock.").
Ken: thxs
-tom
There may be some stuff in Subaru Crew - Modifications II.
Steve, Host
One usable galley port, toward the front of the motor, is currently in use by the stock oil pressure sending unit that talks to the instrument cluster idiot light. If desired, you could connect another oil pressure sending unit here for use with a real pressure gauge by using a "T" fitting, thus retaining the warning light and having a gauge as well.
The other port in the rear of the motor (plugged and not in use) would be ideal for an oil temp sender. And, the consensus seems to be that this location will give a more accurate reading of the current oil stress as compared to the bottom of the oil pan where the oil has had time to cool. But, I'm sure Subaru engineers had their reasons for putting the oil temp sender where they do.
Both of these mods are well documented at scoobymods, and I have the links, but ... I've been warned
By the way, no offense intended Steve, but I believe this no-other-forums-link policy, which is apparently meant to help Edmunds become "the" car info site, is very ill conceived. If I can't share knowledge, wherever it may be found, then I'll just post less here - not more. But that's just me.
-tom
PS: Jack, I forgot to thank you too.
Sharing knowledge is what these boards are all about. Promoting other forums is not. One does not preclude the other. You'll find that almost all other forums have similar policies and it is pretty much an industry standard.
tidester, host
Seems to me that one is at cross purposes with the other.
Also, this is the one and only forum of the many, many
But, I understand the terms of service here and will comply, with reservations as stated. ... Wait, I bet my membership says I agreed to comply "... without reservation ... " haha.
-tom
This message (and the thread around it) pretty much explains all.
/direct/view/.ef0b764/1382
Steve, Host
While the Town Hall agreement states "other forums" I believe the intent is to prevent members from straying to other chat/conversation boards. In this case, I think links to highlight a specific modification should be allowed.
Ken
Again, I refer you to that Ask the Town Hall Hosts thread. This isn't the place to debate our policies - if you prefer you can email Tidester or myself, or our manager (sylvia@edmunds.com). Thanks,
Steve, Host
Tank #2: 20.8 MPG, mixed city/hwy, A/C on 100% of the time.
Happy motoring ;-)
Instead of keeping a tank-by-tank log, it's also good to take a continuous average. That way, you won't see mpg swings due to when the pump clicked off.
Ken
Steve, Host
Ken
Len
Lights - my '98 has great lighting, even with stock bulbs. Bob's 2001 is not as good, for some reason, maybe the reflector design. I have not drive a 2003+ at night.
But this tells you all you need to know - a good reflector is all you need, not hyper-expensive HIDs. At most make it a stand-alone option. I'll keep my cheap, effective, $10 replacement cost halogens.
-juice
If you agreed upon a model with a price on a purchase and sales agreement he's legally bound to deliver you the car you ordered (at least here in Mass). The down side is you might have to wait for the next batch.
It stinks he did that, IMO. I know the dealers here all have a list of the models coming in ahead of time, usually with no options, then have what they call (again, at least around here) port installed options. Cheaper for the dealer since he doesn't have to tie up his staff. Also, in general better quality work since all those guys do is install options.
I had to wait about 4 weeks for my XT to come in through RI to get to eastern MA. In my particular case the dealer made a special effort to get the options installed at the port because I had so many of them..... In fact, the only option the dealer here did, he screwed up. I have to take it to the shop on Friday to get the steering colunm shroud adjusted. Looks like they messed it up mounting the boost gauge.
I'd hate to say they're using the old bait and switch on you but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck......
HTH
Larry
The power is really good without even flooring the gas paddle during the breaking miles at 7000 feet altitude. I was concerned that the NA engine might be overly taxed at this high altitude. I'm very glad I waited a year for the XT. I've yet to try out it's climbing capability by driving it down to Phoenix. The way back to Flagstaff is almost uphill all the way. I can imagine zipping pass whatever car I choose to if I'm willing to pay for the speeding tickets :-D
No hassle whatsoever dealing with the dealer in town through the ACA VIP program. I paid invoice price and ordered exactly what I wanted. It came in 6 weeks as the dealer projected. There was a surprising "lieu tax" that we had to pay on top of the sales tax and document fees. At first, I thought they were pulling my legs. But after checking with my colleague, it turns out that this is some sort of a "luxury tax" levied in Arizona. Given all the problems that the state has with the gas pipelines, they might as well invent a "pipeline tax". All in all, I'm just savoring the new car one day at a time.
Pin
If you want the stuff, sure, but if you don't, I'd wait.
Don't get me wrong, I don't expect the dealer to GIVE you those options, I just expect him to keep looking.
-juice
GREG
Cheers
Pat