Subaru XT Turbo Forester

once_for_all

The rear diffy is robust and well tucked away. I use it for a floor jacking point, because it is the only solid point in the back.

I don't have the protector, but I am not rock hopping either. There are numerous other items underneath that are also vulnerable. Note that the "splash plate" up front is mere plastic, whereas it is solid steel on my Trooper. The Forester just isn't designed for impacts underneath, so protecting one small area, albeit an expensive area, IMO, isn't worth the bucks.

John (PS, has nothing to do with my extended warranty or lack of refund if I use it :-)

ateixeira

You just *had* to bring that up! ;-)

-juice

iluvsubaru2

John,
What I found in talking with my service dept was that many people bought the rear diffy protector, most concerned about potential ice damage. But I found no examples of ice damage to the rear diffy in those who ran unprotected on city streets (our streets get lots of ice).

Most underbody damages Service encountered were, indeed, from "rock hoppers" in summer months who mistook their Foresters for Humvees, with a lot more damage than to just their rear differential.

This issue reminds me a lot of condom debates: if a guy can't clearly see where he's going maybe he shouldn't go there at all (or if he does, go VERY slowly, and not be afraid to backout...:-)

Jake

paddyk

Well I just joined the Town Hall.
Took me a week to read everything!

I purchased a MT XT two months ago and love it.
It replaces a 93 Explorer which I always hated.
There is no comparison between between the BIG Explorer and the XT. The XT is too much fun to drive.
MPG during break-in 100% city(Detroit suburbs): 21-22mpg.
MPG on freeway: 24 and 28,(28 in flat Ohio)(24 in bumpy Pensilvania)
Not sure what the MPG is now after break-in.
Today will be the first try at trailering a 1000lb pop-up tent camper.
Saturday I plan to do a few laps at Gingerman Raceway in South Haven,MI. Primary lap car will be a 93 Miata.

paddyk
Westland, MI

lfdal

Rear differential = $1390, Read diff protector = approx $65. That and I've seen how careless the shops are when they jack under the rear diff. In fact that was the main reason I bought it.

Larry

Kirstie_H

paddyk, welcome to Town Hall, and congratulations on your purchase! The Subaru owners here are real enthusiasts, if you didn't notice already. We're glad to have you here, and look forward to hearing more about your new XT.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

once_for_all

congrats!! welcome and all!! I thought I had licked XT envy until you told me your mpg. Now I see the dark side rising up again...

I am gratefull that the fall/winter is on us again, my mpg on the XS 5speed are back up to 28.0, 80/20 on highway/city.

John

ateixeira

Jake: I have a couple of scuff marks on my diffy protector. Minor, but still.

Welcome, Patrick. A couple of notes - you'll fit right in, given you have a "K" in your name (very common among Subaristi), and I have a Forester and a '93 Miata too, what a coincidence!

My Forester is a '98 L, so yes, I suffer from XT envy too!

-juice

envyabull

I love my Forester XT AT PP. Not a single problem after 2700 miles up until yesterday. The cruise control (CC) light is flashing on and off and the CC master switch has no effect on it. CC is not working either.

The owners manual, checked while in traffic jam, does not mention the possibility of a flashing CC light as indication of a CC failure, although it certainly appears to be one. The guy I called at my Subie service department had never heard of a flashing CC light, but seemed somewhat confident that it indicated a CC failure. I made an appointment to have it checked out.

Anyway, I do not often use CC, but even if I did would not expect a problem with it in a new car. Just wondering if anybody has had a similar experience with any of their Scoobies? Maybe someone has some relatively easy things for me to check on my own to fix the problem.

In a hopefully unrelated incident, my "Check Engine" light is also on. I immediately suspected the gas cap was loose and it was. My local Sunoco dealer has full service for the same cost as the no-name gas stations next door. Unfortunately the kid doing the pumping did not tighten the gas cap until it clicked. I have refilled the tank and been through about 5 ignition cycles and the light remains on. I am now tempted to disconnect battery to reset the electrical systems in the hopes that the light will go out. Is it possible that the Check Engine light is responding to the CC failure?

What else? Oh that buzzing noise! Actually the car is very quiet with no interior buzzes or rattles. However, I have found an annoying buzzing that I can hear outside at certain speeds with my driver window down. It sounds like it is coming from my sideview mirror. the sound is just like when blowing a blade of grass between one's thumbs if you know what I mean. The frequency of the buzz does not change, however it only occurs within a certain (air) speed range. I felt around and was able to stop the sound by touching the window weather stripping in its lower forward corner just about where the mirror attaches. It appears that the weather stripping can set up a vibration. I wonder if this is similar to the buzzing others have heard. I just roll up the window and I can not hear the any more.

Besides that all is well. It is a extremely fun card to drive and the stereo sounds extremely good for a factory system. I boost the mid +2 and the Bass +1 to get what I think is a more balanced sound in my leather interior.

I took the car out on a Rhode Island beach last week. The car did great even through the looser sand. I did not need to reduce my tire pressure either. I got lots of looks from the folks in their big fat tire trucks who seemed surprised at how easily the little Subie handled the conditions. I have pictures if anyone is interested.

A girl I work with was looking at various small SUV's. She had tried Mazdas, Mitsubishis, Hondas, Kias and Toyotas, but not Subarus. I insisted that she try mine. She was hooked from the first push of the accelerator! Then the first higher speed turns also impressed her. Now there are two Forester XT's in our lot! She bought a MT and now owes me a drive!

ateixeira

Those mirrors break away, try folding them to see if the noise stops. You could tape the seams, maybe, if that's the source.

Let the dealer look into the CEL. The CC light blinking is a first, never heard of that. I'm sure it's related.

She was comparing the Xtreme Torque Subie to mere mortal competitors. Nothing else can touch that 235 pound-feet of torque!

-juice

kens

28mpg on an XT must be a record!

Ken

lbhaley

I had a similar problem on my previous 98 Forester. In my case the air bag light came on and the cruise control and the horn stopped working. It turned out to be a part called a 'clock spring' that is located in the hub of the steering wheel. I was out of warranty so it cost me almost $500 to get it fixed. You are still under the warranty so that shouldn't be a problem.

I now have just over 4000 miles on my XT MT and I still love it. I am getting around 21 mpg around town and close to 23 mpg on the highway. I still can't get over how quick it is!

ateixeira

OK, who is going to bring over a broken-in AT model for me to re-test. )

For scientific purposes only, of course!

-juice

iluvsubaru2

While getting a block heater installed on XS I got another chance to drive an XT w/AT. Contrary to my first test drive, I found handling between XS and XT about the same, which is to say very responsive and compliant (routine driving). Body roll & brake dive I noted previously were both absent on the XT I recently drove. Perhaps Subaru adjusted the XT's suspension since July, or maybe I just drove an XT that was out of whack (or, I was out of whack:-)
 
I look forward to the NHTSA dynamic rollover test, as that should tell us more of the 2004's handling in "emergency" situations. As many of us know, one of the few mediocre safety ratings Forester has is for rollover risk based on it's static rather than dynamic stability. I'm looking forward to a higher rating on the upcoming dynamic test. We'll see.
 
Larry, Juice, re: the diffy protector. OK, I guess I'll do it again & get the protector. Weak link is a weak link. This one's an easy fix.

John: I hear ya. I grew up in CA, but unless you drive the John Muir Trail in January, ND's got CA trumped for "ice rocks" on motorways.

Thanks for your inputs,
Jake

miamixt

Driving in swamp-like conditions, and with the AC or AC/Defroster/Defogger/Dehumidifier/Heater on, I have found it is possible to average about 15 Miles per Gallon with the XT, but it's 15 miles of Fun and yes, your "Confidence Surges" as Subaru suggests, tried my first full throttle maneuver around a problematic non moving semi Truck, wow!
With all the recent Subaru Warranty discussion, does anyone know of an Extended Warranty that didn't offer your Money back ?( pro rated of course!)

paddyk

Well I'm back from Gingerman Raceway.

Trailer towing was awesome. Other than the bad suspension of the 1000lb trailer transmitting an annoying bounce, I could hardly tell the trailer was there. On ramps were no trouble, just hit the gas and hold on. I haven't checked the trip back, but I got 17mpg on the way there 75mph no A/C. Note the 28mpg on the no-trailer trip may have had a tail wind.

Track time was fun. Pumped up the tire pressures to 38. The stock Geolanders rolled over quite a bit. I was surprised at how evenly balanced it was through the high speed corners. Lots of tire squall, but it was very predictable, no overstear or understear, nice even drift. I did notice a bit of body roll but not a much as I thought. never felt that I was going to roll over. Now the straights were the best. A friend in a Porche 928 was barely able to inch ahead but only between the 60 to 90mph stretch. Hunted down and passed a couple of Alpha's on street tires but got passed by the gang of Corvettes and a turboed Miata. The rest of the field wasn't fast enough to catch me in the 15 minute session (all of the cars were started with large spacing). Brakes heated up but I never felt any fade. It seemed as though the car needed better brakes at the end of the 90mph straights but I had just finished 45 minutes in the miata. I was the fastest SUV on the track. OK I was the only SUV on the track. No other SUV would even been allowed on the track, but I had no trouble with the event chair at letting me go out and play.

Had a great time. Other than the Miata, it is the best car I have ever driven.

Patrick
Westland, MI

paddyk

Just checked MPG from last fill, 92 miles.

18.2mpg towing 1000lb trailer with set of race tires in the back, one passenger, no AC, 74mph freeway on cruse control. Headed east, so tail wind helped.

Patrick
Westland, MI

deadeye5

miaixt--- Saw you post about the mpg. Lowest I have seen/read on this site. Hope it was all in heavy traffic. I just ordered a Gold XT up here in the FL Panhandle. Am hoping to get the 21-24 MPG
that I see other users are getting..

             Enjoy your Posts. Deadeye

paddyk

Just checked MPG from last fill, 92 miles.

18.2mpg towing 1000lb trailer with set of race tires in the back, one passenger, no AC, 74mph freeway on cruse control. Headed east, so tail wind helped.

Patrick
Westland, MI

ballistic

I've driven Alfas, but never an Alpha.

leo2633

maybe you beta!

Len

corkfish

Someone over at a different site posted their quarter mile time slip of 13.92. I knew the cooler fall air would bring better times.

ateixeira

17mpg towing is good. I average 17.3 mpg towing about 1500 lbs last time, and that's with my normally aspirated 2.5l. So the turbo didn't cost you any extra fuel!

I am SOOOOOOOO jealous that you were able to get your XT on the track. OK, calling my therapist now....

-juice

PS real-world 1/4 in the 13s, aye aye aye, you're trying to kill me!

ballistic

Very good. Kappa-tal effort, in fact.

envyabull

I posted last week about my Check Engine Light being on along with a flashing Cruise control light and disabled CC. I was confident that a gas station attendant was responsible for a lose gas cap that led to the Check Engine Light. However, I was baffled by the flashing CC light.

I went to an AutoZone where they checked my error code for free. It indicated the vacuum leak from the loose gas cap but said nothing about CC. We double checked the gas cap and then cleared the Check Engine Light with the reader device. The CC light still flashed while the car was running. Upon the next start up, the CC light went out and CC was functioning normally again. The car took about three seconds to fire after re setting the error. I assume it had to do with the fuel management system adjusting to the new settings.

The guy at the AutoZone mentioned a lot of turbo Subarus coming in with Check Engine Lights due to loose gas caps. They are very sensitive to this. 5 or more clicks of cap recommended. However, the flashing CC light was new to him.

So I am assuming that the car automatically disables the cruise control when it detects a vacuum leak error whether by a loose gas cap or other cause.

I read on another message board about a WRX STi with CEL and flashing CC light. So maybe disabling the CC if a vacuum leak is found is something unique to the 2.5 turbos.

Hope this is helpful to others. I imagine it will be a common occurrence.

leo2633

This turbo stuff, it's all Greek to me...

Len

lfdal

To all the DIY's out there - don't believe what you read. I switched my XT over to synthetic this weekend. Checked the owners manual - 4.2 qts (4 Liters) as in the 03's. Primed the filter (that didn't take much), added a little more than 4 qts to the crankcase to total 4.2 and the oil was just a little above the L on the stick.

Left the stick out, had a coffee, read "War and Peace", walked the dog..... re-measured and still just above the L.

Contacted SOA yesterday morning and received an e-mail back in the afternoon. It appears the manual on the 04 Foresters at least up through mine has the wrong capacities. According to SOA the XT takes 5 qts now with the filter. Also, the non-turbos takes 4.8 qts vs the old 4.2 qts.

Dropped in the missing .8 qts this morning and stick now reads where my 03 did - between the F and the hole in the stick above the F.

Also - the new filters for the XT are black and have the word "Engine" stamped on the bottom. I let the dealer do the 1k change. Noticed the filter he installed was white. Confirmed with SOA that the part number on the black filter is correct. Guess the dealer was out of the recommended and decided wahtever he had on hand was okay.

Wouldn't have been so bad, but my end-cap filter wrench I bought for the black filters was too big for the white filter. Took a lot of misery to get out the dealer installed filter.

Larry

once_for_all

it is that "whatever on hand" attitude that keeps me out of dealers and car shops. I can do the "whatever on hand" at home much better than any car shop. Why on earth do we take cars to the professionals if we get the "whatever" and "it doesn't matter" attitudes? Ok, where is the offramp from this soapbox.

John

pleiad7

Thanks for the heads up, Larry! I was in the same situation this past weekend when I did my 1k oil change... put in 4.2 quarts, measured - oil level just above L. Re-measured an hour later after making sure the car was on level ground, with the same result. Hesitantly added another .3 quarts and thought for sure I'd be overfilling it somehow... Guess I can dump in the rest of the bottle now!

John - I bought a small supply of XT oil filters ahead of time after I heard that many dealers/shops either don't have the appropriate filters in stock yet, or possibly never even got the memo that the XT uses a different filter. That way I can supply the correct filter even if I take the car in to have the oil change done by the so-called "professionals." Better safe than sorry…

ateixeira

Thanks for the report, envyabull.

Guess we should always keep an eye on the oil level, regardless of stated capacities.

-juice

ballistic

I also can confirm that 4.2 quarts leaves an XT nowhere near full. This was discovered to my annoyance when I drained and filled at the 1000 mile mark. I had to go out in the other car to buy another quart.

deadeye5

Does anyone have a correct number (black seems vague) for the XT filter ?? I have a new XT on the way---looks-sounds like I may go back to changing oil myself again. My sales-dealer is about 60 mi from here. I saw on earlier posts that a crush washer was mentioned relating to the filter-is that so ??

bkaiser1

Here's the part number from Subarus' tech page:
#15208AA080.

Last time I was at the dealer they sold me the #xxx060 filter for my WRX, but I didn't know it was wrong until I'd already installed it. Since the WRX has been using the 060 filter for years, I figure it's not going to kill anything this time, but in the future I'll insist on the updated part number.

ballistic

Note that the new XT/Baja filter is smaller in size than earlier models. It's 68mm in diameter (2.67 inches). If a dealer tries to sell you an 80mm filter (3.15" diameter), it's the wrong one.

lfdal

Same old crush washers for the drain plug. Simple, cheap, effective, but one time use only.

The Subaru part number for the oil filter the dealer put on my XT was SOA5165108 - whatever that goes to.

And yes, 15208AA080 is definitely the number for the black filters - I've got the box next to the keyboard.

Larry

dcdouglas

I'd like to thank all the posters who have helped bring about this moment!

I'm happy to announce our newest family member:

SubaRufus Douglas (we're calling him "Rufus")

He's a strapping silver XT w/PP.

His mom and I are doing fine. I'll keep you abreast of his progress.

--dcdouglas

jim_loves_cars

I hope the delivery wasn't too painful for you...

Congrats on the new car. Please don't drag race me.

-Jim
2004 WRX Wagon

deadeye5

Congrats on the new addition. Anxious to take delivery on my Gold, XT in a few weeks. What does /PP stand for ??

                     A Subie nerd..

bluesubie

deadeye5

Congrats on the new addition. Anxious to take delivery on my Gold, XT in a few weeks. What does /PP stand for ??

                     A Subie nerd..

bluesubie

ateixeira

Congrats, dcdouglas. Add one to the list of names of owners I envy! ;-)

You got the PP? Double the envy, I love that roof!

Is there an echo in here?

Is there an echo in here?

Guess so. LOL

-juice

joyridea4

Congrats DCDouglas on your new baby. I am expecting the Stork to be winging its way to me with my new addition a Cayenne Red XT 5sp very soon. Anyone know the flight time from Japan to the East coast? Ordered Sept 27,was on the dealers allocation list. Just added the options I wanted.
Don

kens

Congrats on the new XT!

Flight time from Japan to the East Coast is around 13 hours, but I don't think they ship cars using air freight!

Ken

ballistic

13 hours? Storks can't beat their wings that fast...

kens

If you get that jetstream as a tailwind -- look out! ;-)

Ken

lite1

Been reading posts for several hours and have learned so much ... thanks to all of you.

Likely to purchase XT, possibly very soon if can locate one with proper options and pricing. Your opinions/advice on following is appreciated:

Currently drive Toyota Avalon - a real boat, but at least the XT MPG won't be much worse than it. Helped friend buy WRX 20 months ago and occasionally get to drive it. Did short test drive of XT MT and loved it, but after reading here I think AT will be better choice for me. I live in southern Oregon at about 2,500 feet and have some fun two-lane, hilly terrain to traverse getting to the trail heads where I like to hike or back pack. Rarely get over 5,000 feet but touring around Pacific northwest might get to some higher passes. Love the performance of the Forester but seems that I may be one of the few here who actually plans to use it (perhaps 10% of the time) offroad. Nothing serious, but dirt, holes, loose gravel, sometimes mud in getting into the back country. Of course we get plenty of rain here. Will get somewhat into snow and some ice for a only a few months of the winter when I ski. Drive interstate to work daily; very rarely am in city traffic. Biggest town is 40,000 here.

1) AT or MT Given where I'll be driving any thoughts on whether AT or MT would be better tool? As I said I'm leaning toward AT in part because from what I've read here of gap in first to second that this might be unpleasant on dirt and gravel roads when needing to travel in the 5 to 30 mph range.

2) Tires: Should I consider replacing them with something that would be "more suitable" for off road? I am reluctant to consider this a) because of the expense, and b) even more so because there is bound to be a trade off and a loss of highway behavior. I really can not stand road noise and changing tires if the choice is wrong can really lead to obnoxious road noise. If you do have a tire suggestion please be as specific as possible since manufacturers seem to have so many models that sound the same.

3) Security upgrade option: I live in a low crime area, but might get the security for some peace of mine and the minor insurance premium break. Is the Subaru option a good choice or is a third party a better idea? The Subie website really has no info. on how this particular security/alarm system works. Will ask the dealer again whether this blows the horn/flashes the lights etc. but two sales people asked did not know!!

4) Color: Wish they offered the blue or green for the XT the way they do for the XS. Probably will go for Silver or Red but am concerned about how they might show dirt. Never had a black interior and it gets in the high 90's here alot; might end up having to get seat covers to keep from cooking even with a good windshield sunblocker.

I'm new to the discussion, and again value all of the posts here. Has and will save me from making too many wrong turns. Can't offer much to help others yet, but in case you are not aware of it the Subaru Mastercard gives you 3% Subie coupons on all purchases issued in $100 increments. You can earn upto $500 a year in coupons. I already have $700 so will make purchasing a little bit easier. By the way I have a couple of dealers that are quite happy with $500 over dealer invoice and will charge invoice on any options that they need to add that are not already on from the factory or the dock.

Thanks,
Edward

cmuniz

I live at 3,400 ft elevation in the mountains of North Carolina and have a red XT with A/T. It has been a great car. The A/T works quite well. I use 2 and/or 3 when going downhill and it holds the speed well. I'll have to use 1 this winter on steep snowy downhills around my house but the rest of the time the A/T works fine. The power and the nimbleness on the mountains roads is great. I've decided to keep the original tires this winter and see how they work on the snow. May change them if I'm not happy with them, but so far no complaints. I'm not sure that the security upgrade is worth it. I have it on my car, but don't think I would need it up here as car thefts are very low. It happened to be installed on the car that I wanted. Finally, I really like the red color, but silver would show less dirt if that is a real concern. I just think red looks better on the XT. Good luck on your new purchase.

lbhaley

I think that the gap between 1st and 2nd in the MT is a non issue. I have a XT MT and it certainly is not a problem for me. After going up through the gears a few times you learn where to shift and forget about it. Overall I find the MT to be a delight to use, (and a lot of fun). It's not quite as smooth as a BMW, but shifts much better than my previous 98 Forester. I think your decision on AT vs MT should be made on preference and need, not the 1st to 2nd gap. Either way you are going to love your new XT!

lark6

Not an XT owner (2000 S), and my driving differs quite a bit from yours, but I do use my car similarly. I live in NE PA and drive in a lot of traffic, but I am in the Delaware River valley and not far from the Poconos. Hence I see a lot of bad, gravelly, potholey roads on which the Forester's long-travel suspension really shines. I haul my kayak down back country roads from time to time as well.

I'm considering trading for a XT in the next year because the only thing my S really lacks is power for passing, on-ramp/off-ramp maneuvers etc. I replaced my OEM Yokohama Geolandars (not the same, but similar, to what come on the XT) with Dunlop SP Sport 5000s. They aren't a dedicated off-road tire - more of a high performance all-season - but they work well in the conditions you describe. I have a set of 17" wheels and tires that I use in the summer; also high-performance all-seasons but geared more for spirited driving. I'd even consider swapping those in at the dealer.

My Forester is an AT, due mostly to the fact that I have bad knees (old sports injuries are my rationale, but I suspect genetics and diet play a role too), but in heavy NE Corridor traffic I'm glad I have it. Sometimes I miss the days when I could row my own and I really wish Subaru would put the SportShift AT (already in the Legacy GT, soon to be in the Baja Turbo) into the XT as well as the rest of the product line. Foresters and WRXes in Japan and Oceania already have them.

Many people see the torque split of MT Subies as an advantage; they are 50:50 whereas typical AT torque splits are 90:10 varying to 80:20. AT Subies with VTD (e.g., WRX) have a 45:55 torque split. I'd appreciate having a torque split in my AT car that makes it less of a front-driver, myself.

Security has been a problem in this part of the country. Many WRXes, including those belonging to some posters on Edmunds, have been stolen in the last two months. My concern is that once the general riffraff get wind of the XT they will make become targets as well. Hence I think that next go-round I will pass on the factory security system (unless I have no choice) and go with an aftermarket system that is harder to disable.

Colors? My Forester is black (a car care masochist or OCD as we say here) but I don't care for the current Forester black (too brown IMO). The problem with the XT is that the cloth seats on the non-premium cars has a blue weave which clashes with all of the current colors except white and silver. Too many silver cars on the road. The current gold is too yellow-green, and I'm through with red cars for my lifetime. That leaves white as the only current XT color for me. Personally I'd like to see the current dark Woodland Green for the X and XS made available as a monotone; I'd also like a nice gunmetal gray. Finally I think making Subaru's trademark World Rally Blue available on models other than the WRX would be a nice touch as well; racing heritage aside it's a very pretty color.

So more color options, SportShift and VTD would make the XT darn near perfect for me.

I also have the Chase Subaru card and used the SubaruBucks coupons to pay for my 60K service this year. Consider joining one of the VIP programs like IMBA or ACA and, after 6 months, you will become eligible to purchase an XT at invoice.

Hope this helps a bit.

(also an) Edward