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Subaru XT Turbo Forester

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    All that pollution control junk helps those of us with asthma breathe better, they're not necessarily a bad thing! :-)

    -juice
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    krccrkkrccrk Member Posts: 36
    I'm now getting around 25 mpg with my mix of in-town and mountain/canyon driving in my 5-spd XT. Range has been 23.3 to 27.5 mpg with no interstate driving yet. I stopped using the AC last month. I used the boost guage to learn how to limit the acceleration when it is not needed. I don't look at it anymore.

    The clutch is still a pain, but we have gotten use to each other. I can always shift smoothly if I'm wearing my old tennis shoes with the worn out soles.

    I do have a couple of intermittent interior rattles that I am just ignoring.

    Had my first scary incident where the ABS disengaged brakes briefly while vigorously stopping. This only happened about once a year in my previous Forester.

    Overall a great car.

    Ken
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Driving mocs...

    -juice
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    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    ballistic: I wonder how long we'll have to wait before we see an STi/XT powerplant in a light plane. Hmmm, maybe an excuse to go to Oshkosh next year!

    Ed
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    ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I'm now getting around 25 mpg with my mix of in-town and mountain/canyon driving in my 5-spd XT. Range has been 23.3 to 27.5 mpg with no interstate driving yet.

    Ken,

    Your worst tankful, with no Interstate driving, is better than my best tankful with about 80% Interstate. That disparity remains a total mystery to me.

    It is easy for me to see why you're far happier with your XT than I am with mine. And yet, mine doesn't appear to be uniquely awful. Quite a few other XT 5MT drivers are reporting about the same numbers as I'm getting.

    Very strange. It's almost as if there are two distinct groups of XTs - the good ones, and the bad ones. You got one from the former group, and I wound up with the latter.
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    ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Ed,

    I'm not well informed on aviation matters, but don't most or all aviation piston engines require dual spark plugs per cylinder? There are many conversion cylinder heads (for VW, Corvair, and Porsche engines) that convert them to dual ignition for aircraft use. But I don't know whether that's an actual requirement, or just a good idea.

    In any event, the same attributes that I cited for a marine conversion would certainly make the XT/STi engine appealing for flyboys - compact dimensions, light weight, and very high power output per pound.

    On the other hand, keeping propeller tip speeds in the acceptable subsonic range would require either de-tuning the engine to operate at substantially lower RPMs, or else a reduction gear to cut the output shaft RPM by about 1/2 to 2/3.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll still trade with you for mine, JB. ;-)

    You still complaining about too-short gearing? Ha Ha

    -juice
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    ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    You still complaining about too-short gearing? Ha Ha

    Some things never change...<sigh>
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    forestirforestir Member Posts: 8
    As a prospective XT buyer, I'm encouraged with some of the upper-20's mileage reports. I'd be quite happy with 22 or thereabouts.

    I'm a bit discouraged with the reports of rattles. The XT I test drove seemed well screwed together, with only excess tire noise intruding. I could hear the engine, but I actually like that (or even more of it, like the WRX's growl). Did the rattling XT's rattle right off the dealer's lot, or did they develop the rattles after a few miles?

    You're right on with the torque addiction--the 5 speed was sweeeeet!
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    jason_elsjason_els Member Posts: 57
    Mine developed both rattles a few hundred miles off the lot. The one in the passenger door is now quite pronounced and when I take it in for service tomorrow I'm going to have them look for both. One rattle I can dismiss but two with less than 1k on the odo concerns me. Not what I expect in a $25k car.
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    lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Most of my XT's have accumulated over time -

    Here's my list:

    1) drivers door - buzz comes and goes

    2) rear tire area - seems to go away when I'm carrying something so I suspect its the foam material rubbing with no weight on it - makes a kind of squeak

    3) plastic "flexing" sound roughly in center of dash - hard to describe but kind of a snapping / popping sound - really obnoxious, arrived with lower ambient temperatures i. e. below 50 deg.

    4) what sounds like a harness buzz behind the drivers knee panel

    It's already been at the dealers for the first two, neither of which the dealer could replicate
    (big surprise).

    Probably one of the best drive trains around for the price, but I would just as soon not have to crank up the tunes to compensate for poor build quality. The engine may be rocket science, but there's no excuse for these kind of squeaks/rattles/snapping/buzzing problems in a vehicle at this price point.

    Especially when I know Subaru can get it right judging by the absolute quiet in my wife's OBW with 10.5 k on it.

    Larry
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    ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Forestir, the worst of my rattles (just under the dashtop in the passenger airbag area) started about 3 miles from taking delivery, on my way home. All it took (and all it takes ever since) to set it off was to drive on concrete worn down by studded tires. When I get around to taking the XT in for warranty work on the rattles, I'm going to insist on taking the service writer out for a spin. I won't let him out of the car until he acknowledges hearing what I hear.
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    miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    Is it possible that the rattles and buzzing with the XT is from poor American workmanship at the Point of Assembly, Newport News Virginia? What do they do there, and what is the difference between the Point of Assembly, and a Final Point of Assembly? It seems that some options in the Premium Package are making noises, you would need to be driving one to know why I question the quality, sure is nice looking though! (strangest Black I have ever seen?) If Gas Mileage OR Noise is a concern, the XT has the potential to disappoint you!
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    lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    I think its "port of assembly" at least for Subaru of New England. For us that's in Rhode Island.

    Granted its where they add the options, if you catch them in time, but if you wonder about their installation quality I had the turbo gauge installed at my dealer - only took three trips to get it fixed so that it was aligned properly and didn't blow out the instrument light fuse.

    Seems that the port installed options are better installed in general than the ones I've had done at the dealer - another example is the Subaru factory alarm option, commonly done at the dealers - on my 03 the module was just tossed in loose behind the dash, and not properly anchored - that would have required an extra 5 minutes and time is money after all. Also, unless there's two different kits, my 03 done at the dealer's never got the add-on horn that mounts on the strut tower. My XT done in RI does have it.

    jack - by some chance you didn't get the security system did you? That module made exactly the noise you're describing - and the position is about right.

    Larry
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    lbhaleylbhaley Member Posts: 91
    My XT MT now has 4500 miles on it. The only annoying noise is a light buzzy rattle somewhere in the dash on rough roads. It only happens when I hit a bump. I have six CDs in the CD player and have a hunch that this may be the source of the noise. I plan to remove all the CDs sometime soon and see if that's it. Except for that my car is as tight as a vault. I feel the build quality of my car is very good. We also have a 2000 Passat and in many ways I feel the Subaru is higher in overall build quality than the VW. The only quirk I have to complain about has to do with the climate control system. I gave up trying to use the Auto mode because of it's excessive attempts to heat or cool the car in the shortest possible time. I now control the heat and cooling manually. The weird thing that sometimes happens is that the air conditioning will suddenly come on even though it is not in Auto mode. This happens about once a day. I plan to mention it at the next dealer service. I am still getting 20 to 23 mpg depending on driving conditions. The torque is certainly addictive. I find myself gently goosing it as I am driving just to feel that surge. What a wonderful engine and drive train. I am totally satisfied with my XT.
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    f1_roxf1_rox Member Posts: 23
    Many of you indicated the change in driving style by having a boost gauge. I was wondering how can I make the change accordingly without having the gauge. May I ask what is the boost from 1k to 3k?

    If I want to conserve fuel what should I do?

    How about a smooth and quick acceleration?

    Is boost dictated purely by RPM or does it also affected by the way you press the throttle (gradually or suddenly)?
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    ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    jack - by some chance you didn't get the security system did you? That module made exactly the noise you're describing - and the position is about right.

    I didn't order the security upgrade. The buzz seems to be higher than anything located down under the dash. I think it's coming from the passenger airbag cannister.
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    ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Is boost dictated purely by RPM or does it also affected by the way you press the throttle (gradually or suddenly)?

    Boost has much more to do with throttle than with RPM. You can be cruising on the freeway at 3,000 to 3,500 RPM with just enough throttle to maintain speed, and the boost will be negative (below zero on the gauge). Nudge the throttle and the boost soars. Same goes for puttering at 2,000 RPM - light throttle, negative boost. Heavy throttle, the boost climbs.

    At moderate speeds (20-45MPH) you'll be able to monitor the boost by listening for the rising or falling pitch of the turbo whine as you add or reduce throttle. At higher speeds (or if your radio is on) you won't be able to hear the turbo over the other sounds.
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    littlebrotherlittlebrother Member Posts: 3
    at price mentioned earlier, $110 high than what edmunds has. I called subaru and they gimme the invoice $9 lower than dealers.

    There is a $250 rebate on 2004 forestor, even in New England, but it's a dealer-only thing, it's up to them to give it to u or not. We are not supposed to know about it.

    Break-in: thx for gr8 break-in tips, how long is it gonna take? I just can't wait to floor it.

    extended warranty: $1380 Believe it, it's fully refundable when expired and not used. Sales rep mentioned at least 10 times when trying to sell me. It worked.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Congrats on the XT!

    Make sure you remember to apply for that refund in a timely manner if you don't wind up using the extended warranty. No salesperson is going to be calling you ten times then to remind you :-)

    Steve, Host
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    ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Break-in: thx for gr8 break-in tips, how long is it gonna take? I just can't wait to floor it.

    Views on break-in vary widely. My XT was never floored, not even once, prior to reaching 2,000 miles. I never exceeded 3,000 RPMs during the first 1000 miles, and never exceeded 3,500 RPM during the second thousand.
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    corkfishcorkfish Member Posts: 537
    Break in isn't as critical as it used to be. Some even say driving it gingerly for too long will result in improper ring seating. If gentle break in was critical, there'd be no market for cars coming off their lease. I mean, who observes a break in period on a leased car? I guess that like evrything else in life, moderation is the key.
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    forestirforestir Member Posts: 8
    Sooo, if I order an XT without any dealer installed options, my chances of having a rattle-free car are pretty good? I'll take that.

    If there's any consolation, most of the other cars I'm considering have their reports of rattles or other annoyances as well. And fuel mileage is surprisingly poor across the board for any "interesting" cars--worth the added cost for the super torque though!

    Thanks for describing the rattles so well. Sounds like they can be fixed when found.
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    iggsoiggso Member Posts: 31
    I have read everywhere that Manual Foresters are rated up to 2400 pounds and AT rated at 2000. I then noticed in the owners manual that Turbo Foresters with AT are also rated at 2400 pounds.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Congrats, lil' bro!

    -juice
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    miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    Ooops, I meant Port/Assembly. My CRV's Sticker said Final Port. I found it real hard keeping my XT under 4000 RPM for the first 1000, the Manual does say except for "Emergencies", and who knows what procedures were followed before I claimed my XT with 30 miles on it. Therefore, I do suggest the "Added Security" at the obscene Retail price. Does anyone know the true deal on subaruwarranty dot com which is now gone, and subaru(dash)warranty dot com which is there, but is not real? Ifdal, about your rattle/buzz problems, the Drivers Door Rattle could be from the Sound System upgrade done at the Port, even my Tweeter buzzes, and thats when its off! Check your door Weather-stripping, the 2 XT's I looked at have bad Weather-stripping (port?). The Rattle from the center of your Dash might be the Storage space holder, a great idea unless it makes noise. And your Harness buzz is probably just that, very annoying, and you might be able to fix it yourself, if it's the one around your left Knee. Again, these are the common areas taken apart for the Upgraded Stereo, the Alarm, the Electric Mirror, and don't get me started on the Moonroof and that Flap that shifts when you open and close it, incredibly great Rattle there. It could of been a bad Day at the Port?
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I tried to email you bur your mail bounced. Make sure you check out the Subaru Crew Community Home page:

    Subaru Community

    Steve, Host
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    krccrkkrccrk Member Posts: 36
    The boost guage is just a convient means to judge how hard I'm pushing the car. I would normally just try to keep the guage in the negative region meaning the turbo is not pushing air into the manifold hard enough to raise its pressure above that of the air outside. Just keeping the rpms down and not accelerating faster than traffic around you is probably just as good.

    I probably get better milage than most because of my unique driving conditions, dry thin air, most travel at 45 mph, and only having to stop about once per mile while in-town. Either that or there is something wrong with my calculator or my favorite gas pump.

    Ken
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    cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    why do you think subaru-warranty.com is not "real", its site looks real enough, in fact I have a feeling its subaruwarranty.com at a "new" address. Why do I think this, because they gave the same prices I paid subaruwarranty.com and where I got a real SOA Added Security warranty!

    You can also check out subaruwrxparts.com which sells Added Security too, I purchased my subaru 17in wheels from them as well as various other things. They don't show any zero deductible warranties on their website but I'll bet if you called them they will give you a price.
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    deadeye5deadeye5 Member Posts: 93
    CRUZAN1234 & LITE1
      
    ANXIOUS TO HEAR YOUR COMMENTS AFTER PICKING UP YOUR XT ...
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    miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    Yes the Website looks real, better than real(40% off and no Credit Check??) however you will notice NO contact information at any of the pages or at the bottom, had my Credit Card out, submitted my Information to them, expecting to pay for my "Purchase", and NO payment is accepted, "someone will get back with you", and they never did. I read at another Subaru Board that indeed this Company was attempting to sell Warranties, however they were not affiliated with Subaru in any way, and were worthless. Also that SOA was suing them to cease and desist using the official "Added Security" web page that you can view at most Dealer Sites ( click on new Vehicles, then Added Security). More important, what happened to SubaruWarranty dot Com? It is gone, went away about the same time Warranty Gold went out of Business. 3 out of 4 Extended Warranty companies have folded in the past 10 years, it makes Dollars and Sense!
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    lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    It's a dealership in south-eastern MA whose price listings did I believe cause SOA to get upset at them. They're a real dealership, I had saved the contact information from when their site was up. In fact I bought my warranty through them. I'm not going to name names as they are quite capable of watching these boards and could find one way or another to post their existence if they wanted to.

    Larry
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    subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    I have read two reviews on the new Acura TL in the past two days and both specifically mentioned how the rapid onset of torque in the Acura FWD set-up created some real, if momentary, handling scaries. In the thousands of posts about the XT and the new Legacy Turbo already released in Asia, I have not seen a single word of control problems due to torque steer or uncertain traction . There might be something to this "Symmetric AWD" stuff Subaru is always talking about;-).

    Mark
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Ooooo swamp you baaaaaaad :)

    -Dave
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    raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    Is the real site. I'm not familiar with subaru-warranty.com.

    Most dealers will sell a warranty online for the 40% off figure, as long as it's the 7/100 or close to it.
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    lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    There *is* no subaruwarranty.com at this time.

    Having looked at subaru-warranty.com, the lack of information on the vendor (as opposed to the warranty itself) is something I find very interesting. Send in an application and we'll get back to you.

    If I were Subaru, I'd be all over them--especially since they're using the logo.
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    raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    There was a subaruwarranty.com site, administered by Curry Subaru. Seems to have fallen by the wayside.
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    krccrkkrccrk Member Posts: 36
    I haven't had any problem in my 5-spd when the wheel is pointed straight and the road is dry.

    I have gotten some excitement by flooring the gas pedal in 1st gear while turing left at intersections. I don't do that anymore in the XT.

    I did drive to work this week on icy roads for the first time, no problem.

    The torque, at least in the 5-speed, is not a problem as long as you use your head and don't get to excited with the gas pedal.

    Ken
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    cruzan1234cruzan1234 Member Posts: 5
    Hi All,

    Got my new baby (I also have a 2 year old son) on Friday and LOVE IT! The ride is so smooth and it has taken real discipline on our part not to just gun it...You can tell the engine just wants to go. No rattles so far...

    I just went to take a joy ride in it and my husband has it again! He loves it too.

    This is our first Subaru and I am very impressed.

    Thanks for all the comments on the board. You all helped me so much to be an educated consumer.

    Just a recap: I got a 2004 XT AT Platinum Silver. I skipped the extended warranty stuff. My dealership has been great (unbelievable to say, given our past experiences with the haggle-haggle), and the finance guy did not even try to hard sell the warranty stuff when I told him I was not interested.

    We are thrilled. No if my husband would get back, I want to take my baby for a drive!

    Natalie.
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    cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    they never took payment info from you on the website, they took your contact info and your VIN number and then sent you the genuine Subaru Added Security applicatiion forms all filled out with your info except for your signature and how you wanted to pay for it. You sent back the stuff and payment to them and Subaru sent you your Added Security contract.I did that just 18 months ago.They are a east coast dealer. They used the VIN number to get all the factory fitted options on your car (presumably by cross checking with SOA with the Mulroney sticker).

    I found some papers I had been writing on when researching the price of my ext warranty.The prices subaru-warranty are listing are identical to subaruwarranty.

    While I haven't gone through the subaru-warranty.com website and filled out stuff, their MO seems the same as the subaruwarranty.com. If SOA is after them its no wonder they don't identify who they are.
    I see no danger in sending them contact info and VIN number only and seeing if they are "genuine" by contacting you with genuine Subaru application materials.
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    ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I have gotten some excitement by flooring the gas pedal in 1st gear while turing left at intersections. I don't do that anymore in the XT.

    I floored mine once in 1st, and will probably never do it again, straight line or otherwise. Thanks (!) to the gearing, you're at (or past) the redline in an eyeblink. It did nothing to change my opinion of the 4.44 gearing.
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    miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    The bottom line about the XT, it is incredibly powerful off the line, and is impossible not to red line. While the XT is no Race Car, or Race SUV, it might be the one of the fastest little things off the line. It's a good idea to not be turning(left or right) while testing the XT's maximum power, this is a SUV that can easily get away from you if not careful! Final Warranty word, I am sure you can save money by picking any one of a hundred other Vendors, but if your SUBARU ADDED SECURITY(R) plan was not administered by Minnehoma Automobile Association, Inc. (member of the Old Republic Insurance Group) from Tulsa, Oklahoma, you don't have the plan backed by Subaru, no wonder now all those reports with pricing difference!
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    jason_elsjason_els Member Posts: 57
    [quote]I have gotten some excitement by flooring the gas pedal in 1st gear while turing left at intersections. I don't do that anymore in the XT.[/quote]

    Ain't it the truth! Twice I've hit the rev limiter doing that and now never again. No wheel spin, just [b]LAUNCH![/b]

    It's a real eye opener to say the least.

    The Subaru boxer is laid out longitudinally rather than horizontally. Horizontal position allows the engine to be installed in the car sideways therefore saving room but doing so means the crankshaft and transmission aren't perfectly centered and unequal length driveshafts have to be used. This means one shaft gets more torque than the other thus causing torque steer.

    Subaru eliminates this by using the compact boxer configuration in a longitudinal configuration. The engine itself is already harmonically balanced which helps with torque steer and vibration but the real advantage lies in the transmission sitting immediately behind it allowing equal length drive shafts. AWD also helps by distributing power to all four wheels. It's really quite simple but remarkably smooth in execution. I can't really think of a downside to it and surprised more manufacturers don't use this sort of configuration. Certainly saves on parts and manufacturing costs while providing all-around benefits. The H6 is even smoother and a wonderful engine its own right. Pity only Porsche and Subaru use this type of configuration.

    P.S. I REALLY wish they would post some kind of instructions on how to add tags here. Seems standard HTML doesn't work and I didn't find anything on how to do it in the, "Town Hall Help" section. Grrrr
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    beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    One disadvantage to the Soobie method of engine/drivetrain layout is that the engine and good chunk of the tranny is in front of the front wheels. Not the best place for good weight distribution.

    These past few posts talking about the instant-on power of the Forester XT in first gear are making me salivate. When I test drove the WRX I was counting the seconds before the car actually got up and moved. Don't want to have to aggressively launch to make a good 0-30 sprint!

    -B
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    corkfishcorkfish Member Posts: 537
    The 4:44 gearing doesn't bother me as much as the transmission gearing. It would be nice if first gear was a little longer.
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    lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    When I spoke to Subaru in Cherry Hill NJ they let slip that they were surprised and unhappy that Curry was posting rates on their website that clobbered most of the warranty competition......

    After speaking with a gentleman at Curry when I bought my warranty from them he indicated that it was just "too much of a hassle" to maintain the site. I'll bet SOA and the other dealers hassled him plenty. - BTW - he never said, or implied that - that's my own conclusion. He was great to deal with, gave me the best price I found anywhere, and regarding warranty authenticity its SOA that's billing my credit card, and mysubaru.com shows my warranty as gold.

    Larry
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    cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    unless they changed just this year, the "real" Subaru ext warranty isn't administered by anyone except Subaru!
    Miamixt where did you get your info about this Minnehoma Auto company. I suppose they may be the reinsurers but Added Security is run by Subaru and dealers show Added Security vehicles on their computers automatically when they put your VIN in. Its not like some aftermarket system they have to call up about.
    I sent a request to subaru-warranty on line, we'll see what response I get.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Are you not using < and > to enclose your tags?

    We don't permit a lot of html stuff in the posts, but the usual html formatting works for the stuff that is allowed (bold, italic, small, etc.)

    <B>bold</B> for example.

    Lots of tutorials use brackets ([) instead of angles (<) in their examples so the example won't be converted to html format. So just substitute [ for < when you run across those.

    Steve, Host
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    bobshere1bobshere1 Member Posts: 59
    While not all the accessories shown are sold everywhere this is a very interesting site to play with....
     
          http://accessory.subaru.co.jp/forester/3d/index.html

           Bob G
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nice as the TL is, you gotta wonder what the power delivery limit is for FWD. For that price, they should offer AWD.

    Natalie: I guess you had a REALLY Happy Halloween! Congrats!

    -juice
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