Subaru XT Turbo Forester

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Comments

  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Oh - I almost forgot to share this. On my trip over Christmas, running on the interstate with the vent blowing (no a/c) and generally leaning on the optional armrest, at some point the armrest built up this big static electricity charge. It was not normal static electricity that zaps you. The thing just stayed charged through the rest of my trip. It would make the hairs on my arm stand straight out when I got near it or touched it, almost like it was magnetic.

    I wonder if static electricty has any thing to do with the random volume changing incident that I had with the radio, that has not replicated itself since.
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    I know that back in the days of carburetors, all my manual trans vehicles had a device called a dashpot that kept the throttle from snapping shut when you let off the gas. I believe it was supposed to allow for smoother shifting. Perhaps the XT engine has some type of electronic feature to perform the same function.

    Len
  • troop2shostroop2shos Member Posts: 235
    Dashpots, at least in all of my British cars, had no effect on the piston falling - only controlled the piston rate of rise & corresponding enrichment mixture affecting driveability with large / quick throttle openings (oil viscosity weight dependent).

    The throttle "hang" some seem to experience in the XT (& others) seems related to the ECU &/or TPS sensor. I have no problems with the drive by wire throttle in my Troop. execpt for replacing a board once when it threw a CEL on - still no driveability issues.
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    Sounds like your British dashpot was a lot more sophisticated than my American (Ford) dashpots were. Basically they were a device, bolted to the side of the carburetor, with a small plunger that the throttle lever would rest against at idle. When you opened the throttle, the plunger would protrude slightly, and when you allowed the throttle to close, it would contact the plunger, slowly pushing it back into the dashpot body. As I recall, there was an adjustment on the dashpot, which allowed you to increase or decrease the resetting of the plunger (for lack of a better term).

    This was back in the bad old days of Ford's emission controls, such as their EGR system and AIR pumps (the worst, IMHO). I recall my detuned '77 Mercury Marquis with it's 400 cubic inch, 2 barrel carb engine. If I recall correctly, it was rated at a whopping 160 (yes, I said 160) horsepower. Getting back on topic, that is less than the 165 HP in my '01 Forester.

    Len
  • johnb2251johnb2251 Member Posts: 33
    I'm glad I've never had the "throttle hang" syndrome on my XT, so there are XTs out there that don't have it. Never would have bought it if I had noticed it on the test drives, which underscores the importance of smart and deliberate purchasing. I was suspicious of the DBW throttle because of the crappy one in my '00 Jetta, but the XT's is superba in comparison.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    To defrost the windshield, DON'T use the front defroster (it's completely useless, blows only cold air, meant for defogging only). Use the Heat Floor/Defrost (all the way to the right) setting and crank the temperature all the way up. This will send some warm air to the defroster vents. And make sure to turn the A/C off. The climate control in this car is nothing short of idiotic.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Yes, the RPMs are kept up by the computer between shifts as long as the vehicle is in motion. The computer will eventually learn your driving style and won't keep them up as high between shifts if you shift conservatively. This is "supposed" to make shifting easier and smoother, but has quite the opposite effect on experienced stickshift drivers. Another electronic gremlin (of many) in the XT.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    John brings up a good point, though. If you're not looking out for it, you may not notice.

    For example, our 2002 Legacy's throttle is not very linear. It's almost "on/off". We did not notice in our test drive, despite going for a very long one. It makes normal driving not so smooth. But driven hard, you don't notice. We were sort of pushing it during the test drive so that characteristic never showed up.

    Next car we buy, I'll be looking for that, so I'll notice.

    -juice
  • stuhallstuhall Member Posts: 59
    It's been beaten to death, but how in world could Subaru, the supposed king of foul weather cars, screw up climate control? That should be something they would get right.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cut it out, reduce costs and make everyone happy.

    Heck, gimme an X model with the turbo only, unpainted bumpers and manual A/C, at a lower price. It would be a lot easier to sell the idea to my wife.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Them SVT 5 door Foci are cheap right now.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    If you're not looking out for it, you may not notice.

    No excuse. Smart and deliberate purchasers let no detail, no matter how obscure, escape their attention.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Basically they were a device, bolted to the side of the carburetor, with a small plunger that the throttle lever would rest against at idle.

    Yes, many carbs had those, long before the emission-control era. Their main function seemed to be preventing the engine from faltering and dying by keeping the throttle from snapping shut abruptly; the dashpot would make that happen a bit more gradually. Dashpots affected the throttle only at its nearly closed position, though, so they had no effect on engine behavior above (say) 1100 or 1200 RPM. With the XT throttle (or at least some of them), revs don't seem to matter. Anytime your foot comes off the throttle, no matter the RPM, the engine maintains that same RPM for a half-second to a second before the engine speed drops.
  • overtime1overtime1 Member Posts: 134
    I used the Edmund's email quote service and immediately received two quotes for the exact car I'm looking for (Silver XT, AT with PP) right around Invoice. :)

    I was sorely tempted to go complete the deal last night but with preparations for an upcoming trip to Tahoe tonight AND with information on the new Legacy/Outback due out next Monday I have decided to wait one week.

    Next Monday should be fun! (unless of course the new Outback is rated at 280hp and reasonably priced...then I might have to reconsider hehe). Any tips and tricks for paying and picking up car for a first time Subie owner?

    overtime
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    A common complaint/critique of the WRX's engine is that the RPM's drop too low between shifts, putting you in the off-boost NA 2.0 range too often.

    It could have been an area that SoA/FHI addressed for the 2.5T because of the previous complaints.

    -Dennis
  • stuhallstuhall Member Posts: 59
    My recommendation for dealer pickup would be:

    -Thoroughly inspect the car, inside and out, for cosmetic problems.
    -Demand a copy of the dealer prep to ensure that they say they performed all the necessary checks and so you have a record after the fact.
    -DRIVE IT before you sign paperwork. Vary speeds, open the sunroof, run the AC, find different road surfaces etc.

    IF ANYTHING is not to your liking, do not drive it off the lot until it is corrected. They will tell you they will fix it when you bring it back and your desire for the car will be strong, but hold out until everything is perfect BEFORE taking delivery.

    Trust me on this....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    JB: ease up on the irony, we're all friends here. :o)

    We did take a long test drive with our Legacy.

    I'd add that you should take delivery in the day, with sunlight, which we also did. That allowed for a detailed inspection.

    Lucky was delivered without flaw, by the way. They even had the tires inflated properly. OK, be honest, how many of you actually checked tire pressures at delivery?

    We tried the A/C, all accessories basically. Ours had no moonroof (it's aftermarket) at the time.

    On my dad's Outback I found two very minor flaws, pointed them out at delivery. They were fixed at the first service.

    So I tend to notice details, but the abrupt throttle is something you don't notice if you're driving hard. It's only when you are going very slowly, trying to drive off smoothly, that you notice the throttle mapping. You don't notice it every day, just in bumper to bumper traffic, easing up slowly.

    I guess the only way to be completely thorough is to rent one, if available, for a week. Live with it, then determine. Or consult with folks on these threads, so at least you know what to look for to see if you can live with it. FWIW, noone on the Legacy/Outback thread had pointed that out to me. After the fact, I spoke with Bob Holland and he agreed his wife's Forester has throttle mapping that is not that smooth.

    I doubt the climate control would bother me at all, BTW. If it turns on the compressor, so what? It's efficient and keeps internal seals lubricated, so I don't have to remember to do that myself.

    -juice
  • johnb2251johnb2251 Member Posts: 33
    Smart and deliberate purchasers let no detail, no matter how obscure, escape their attention.

    Throttle hang is obscure? Well, whatever excuse you want to use. After all, for some people, nothing is their fault.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    RPM's drop too low between shifts, putting you in the off-boost NA 2.0 range too often...It could have been an area that SoA/FHI addressed for the 2.5T

    Hadn't thought of that, but this seems plausible. Holding the throttle open between shifts certainly could help maintain boost. If so, it would be a plus for a performance driver, just as it's a minor annoyance for us plodders.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    we're all friends here. :o)

    Adapting the line from Aldous Huxley's Animal Farm...some are moreso than others.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't you need a load for the turbo to produce boost? If so, keeping rpms up doesn't really prevent lag.

    Whatever they did, lag is non-existent, IMO. The engine gets zero complaints from me.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    If you're below 3-3.5k (any speed) on the WRX, you have an NA 2.0. You don't really need load for boost (or maybe I should say turbo spool-up??).

    After my first test drive in an XT (after 1 year in a WRX), I felt that the WRX was the better driver for cruising around town (25-35mph). It seems easier to control the spool-up on the WRX. Lag was a good thing in some situations.
    Like you said, zero lag on the XT.

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just say it, it's too fast. ;-)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    AMEN, to your last post! LOL! :)

    bob
  • danielldaniell Member Posts: 128
    Animal Farm - I think the author is George Orwell, not Huxley...
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Thanks - I'll try that next nasty weather. Around here that could be any time. If that's how the climate control really works that's about as brain dead as anything I've seen - which does actaully fit my overall opinion of the auto climate control.

    Larry
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Perfectly linear throttle on mine, any speed, any rate of change of speed. No flats, no jumps. Can see where transducer variance would have a *big* effect here.

    Haven't noticed any hanging revs between gears - I assume that's a manual tranny thing that the auto smooths out?

    BTW - after missing that steering column in mine, you'll never hear me critique anyone else's initial inspection. Still can't believe they did that..... AND that I missed it :<).

    Larry
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    I put the Initial Dealer Prep right up there with "Scotch Guard" listed as an "option" on every Car I have ever bought. My Dealership had never seen an XT, nor had Mechanics who knew anything about them, so all they did is remove the Plastic Sheeting, inflate the Tires to 40 PSI, and had the Lot Person clean it. And these reports about the XT's Engine/Transmission upward Power Surge are accurate, even with the A/T XT. Also my Mechanic insisted on using Synthetic Oil with my first Service @ 1500 Miles/ 3 Months, and this eliminated most of my Turbo noise, still hear some "flutter", the noise that sounded like an exhaust leak is gone!
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Couldn't keep those two straight 42 years ago. Nothing has changed. <sigh>
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Actually, I should rephrase that. You can't drive the XT like the WRX in daily driving. I was used to keeping the revs up on the WRX.

    You just have to be more gentle on the throttle with the XT in daily driving. :-)

    -Dennis
    p.s. - Don't recall if I mentioned it here, but I picked up my XT last Friday. :-)
  • johnb2251johnb2251 Member Posts: 33
    BTW - after missing that steering column in mine, you'll never hear me critique anyone else's initial inspection. Still can't believe they did that..... AND that I missed it

    There's a considerable difference between missing something big during a detailed inspection and kicking yourself for it, and missing something big during a highly inadequate, rushed inspection, and blaming everything but your lack of personal responsibility for it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it's tougher than it sounds. You're excited about the new vehicle, and directly comparing it to your old one, which might be 7-10 years old. Any new vehicle will seem far better.

    Often when I rent a car for a week, some of the nagging issues only come up on the 3rd or 4th day. There's just no way to simulate every kind of driving you'll do on a test drive, no matter how long.

    Just MHO.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Juice is right. Good intentions are fine but in the excitement of taking delivery it's awfully hard to stay focused and methodical enough for a thorough inspection. I know I didn't remember to check to see if my steering wheel was on straight (and I supposedly knew better).

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's why they give you a one year adjustment period, to fix things like that no questions asked. At least things that aren't characteristic of the vehicle. They're not gonna put new gears on there for ya. ;-)

    -juice
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    juice wrote: "Just say it, it's too fast. ;-)"

    juice - your XT envy is showing through. You really should see someone about that. Ross you out there? ;-)

    -Ian
  • mikef11mikef11 Member Posts: 74
    Way back in post 2570 Samian wrote "To defrost the windshield, DON'T use the front defroster (it's completely useless, blows only cold air, meant for defogging only). Use the Heat Floor/Defrost (all the way to the right) setting and crank the temperature all the way up. This will send some warm air to the defroster vents. And make sure to turn the A/C off."

    Sorry, this just is not logical. To defrost a windshield, you need hot, preferably dry, air. By selecting floor/defrost, you're sending half of the air to the feet instead of the windshield. You should select Defrost and max temp to get the best defrosting action. You should turn the A/C off (if it was ever on in freezing temperatures), at least until the engine is warm and blowing hot air.

    MikeF

    PS. What happened to winter? All our snow up here has melted after several days of rain. Bring back the snow! :-)
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Well I experiemented today with shifting and watching the tach to see what the revs did. It appears that the engine maintains the same RPMs for almost a full second after you depress the clutch. Now I'm wishing that I'd checked my 2001 to see if it did the same thing. Also, is this something new across the line or XT specific? I'm still going to play around with it some more to see if conservative vs sporty shifting makes a difference but thus far, it doesn't seem to effect my shifting so I'm not concerned about it. However, I'm still curious as to the why.

    -Frank P.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Well I experiemented today with shifting and watching the tach to see what the revs did. It appears that the engine maintains the same RPMs for almost a full second after you depress the clutch.

    You and I and everyone else who observe the same behavior are total idiots for not having caught such an obvious flaw during our hasty predelivery checkrides.
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    any new Model or re designed Models are subject to all types of problems. For all the "flaws" the XT exhibits, I am not disappointed in the least. There is a 3 Year Bumper to Bumper Warranty (Limited Warranty) extended to 6 Years for $1170 extra. While my friend 'warned' me not to get the XT, I look back on the trip I took with him last Month in his 03 Forester, had to let him down and tell him the difference between the two models is "breathtaking", no comparison!
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Jack- As far as I'm concerned, the jury's still out on whether that's a flaw or not. It's quite possible that the engine was intentionally designed to keep the RPMs constant while shifting. I certainly wouldn't even have noticed it if someone else hadn't pointed it out.

    -Frank P.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    a "turbo" characteristic? Meaning is that part of the nature of the beast? Might it have something to do with the fact that the turbo spins so much faster than the engine? Do all turbos, Subie XT or otherwise act that way?

    Bob
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I thought I read about the RPM hold after clutch press a year or so ago. Something about it related to emissions stuff. I'll try and scrounge around the 'net to see if I find it.

    FWIW, our '97 Saturn SL MT did this...

    -Brian
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    jury's still out on whether that's a flaw or not

    Agreed. You missed the tongue planted firmly in cheek.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I'm still convinced it's the ECU's programming, based complaints about the revs on the WRX dropping between shifts. Just like people are posting now about them holding, WRX forums had numerous posts about them dropping.

    I'm willing to bet the '05 Legacy GT will shift the same way.

    -Dennis
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Mike,

    If you press the front defogger button, the A/C will be on automatically and only cold air will come out of the defroster vents, even with the temperature cranked up. Only usefull for defogging inside fog, not defrosting snow and ice. The only way I found to defrost ice from the windhsield, is by using the floor/defrost setting, temp on high, fan on high, A/C off.

    I know this defies logic, but then so does the entire XT climate control system.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    You can improve on that situation. Move the mode dial to the Defrost position - then tap the A/C button. This turns the compressor off, but leaves the ductwork lined up to pump most of the air to the windshield, fully heated (the A/C compressor won't be cooling or dehumidifying the airflow).
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    A happy New Year to everyone.

    I'll be moving to the Bay Area in a few months, so, given the price of housing there, my new car purchase will unfortunately have to wait a while.

    JB: I am glad to see you develop a thick skin. Just wanted to let you know that I truly enjoy reading your posts. Please stay with it and keep posting. Sometimes things need to be stated over and over in a medium with changing audience like this one - it should be easy for long-term users to realize this and to adapt to it.

    My favorite as a kid was the Fiat 600. A bit more mature looking than the 500.

    My now 10-year old manual Golf always had a bit of a throttle hang - I believe it is for emissions reasons and to avoid back firing. It's been a long time and so I have adapted to it - I don't even notice any more that I lift the gas a bit earlier than I used to.

    This car seems to have the same gearing as the Forester, so I will be fine if I get the latter (although I agree that given its performance, the XT doesn't need that type of gearing).

    I have co-owned four cars in 18 years, two of them with significant mileage when I bought them. I co-owned 2 other cars in 12 years before that, but I hardly ever drove them (used my bicycle and scooter, instead). So, I understand what it means to own a car for a long time, although I also have to admit that I don't baby my cars, and I often find that the one my wife drives registers empty on oil when I check it. However, driving with 2-3 quarts short and with oil changes every 10-12K miles has not had a negative impact on my cars.

    OT: If anyone knows about a good school district and not too expensive area to purchase a home in the Berkeley to Walnut Creek area (oxymoron), please let me know.

    - D.
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    Here's a tip to help the defroster work more quickly when the windshield is heavily frosted: put your front sun visors down and roughly inline with the windshield's angle. This will help capture the warmed air at the windshield, rather than blowing it towards the rear of the vehicle. You might be surprised at how much this speeds up the defrosting process.

    Len
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