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Comments
I wonder if static electricty has any thing to do with the random volume changing incident that I had with the radio, that has not replicated itself since.
Len
The throttle "hang" some seem to experience in the XT (& others) seems related to the ECU &/or TPS sensor. I have no problems with the drive by wire throttle in my Troop. execpt for replacing a board once when it threw a CEL on - still no driveability issues.
This was back in the bad old days of Ford's emission controls, such as their EGR system and AIR pumps (the worst, IMHO). I recall my detuned '77 Mercury Marquis with it's 400 cubic inch, 2 barrel carb engine. If I recall correctly, it was rated at a whopping 160 (yes, I said 160) horsepower. Getting back on topic, that is less than the 165 HP in my '01 Forester.
Len
For example, our 2002 Legacy's throttle is not very linear. It's almost "on/off". We did not notice in our test drive, despite going for a very long one. It makes normal driving not so smooth. But driven hard, you don't notice. We were sort of pushing it during the test drive so that characteristic never showed up.
Next car we buy, I'll be looking for that, so I'll notice.
-juice
Heck, gimme an X model with the turbo only, unpainted bumpers and manual A/C, at a lower price. It would be a lot easier to sell the idea to my wife.
-juice
No excuse. Smart and deliberate purchasers let no detail, no matter how obscure, escape their attention.
Yes, many carbs had those, long before the emission-control era. Their main function seemed to be preventing the engine from faltering and dying by keeping the throttle from snapping shut abruptly; the dashpot would make that happen a bit more gradually. Dashpots affected the throttle only at its nearly closed position, though, so they had no effect on engine behavior above (say) 1100 or 1200 RPM. With the XT throttle (or at least some of them), revs don't seem to matter. Anytime your foot comes off the throttle, no matter the RPM, the engine maintains that same RPM for a half-second to a second before the engine speed drops.
I was sorely tempted to go complete the deal last night but with preparations for an upcoming trip to Tahoe tonight AND with information on the new Legacy/Outback due out next Monday I have decided to wait one week.
Next Monday should be fun! (unless of course the new Outback is rated at 280hp and reasonably priced...then I might have to reconsider hehe). Any tips and tricks for paying and picking up car for a first time Subie owner?
overtime
It could have been an area that SoA/FHI addressed for the 2.5T because of the previous complaints.
-Dennis
-Thoroughly inspect the car, inside and out, for cosmetic problems.
-Demand a copy of the dealer prep to ensure that they say they performed all the necessary checks and so you have a record after the fact.
-DRIVE IT before you sign paperwork. Vary speeds, open the sunroof, run the AC, find different road surfaces etc.
IF ANYTHING is not to your liking, do not drive it off the lot until it is corrected. They will tell you they will fix it when you bring it back and your desire for the car will be strong, but hold out until everything is perfect BEFORE taking delivery.
Trust me on this....
We did take a long test drive with our Legacy.
I'd add that you should take delivery in the day, with sunlight, which we also did. That allowed for a detailed inspection.
Lucky was delivered without flaw, by the way. They even had the tires inflated properly. OK, be honest, how many of you actually checked tire pressures at delivery?
We tried the A/C, all accessories basically. Ours had no moonroof (it's aftermarket) at the time.
On my dad's Outback I found two very minor flaws, pointed them out at delivery. They were fixed at the first service.
So I tend to notice details, but the abrupt throttle is something you don't notice if you're driving hard. It's only when you are going very slowly, trying to drive off smoothly, that you notice the throttle mapping. You don't notice it every day, just in bumper to bumper traffic, easing up slowly.
I guess the only way to be completely thorough is to rent one, if available, for a week. Live with it, then determine. Or consult with folks on these threads, so at least you know what to look for to see if you can live with it. FWIW, noone on the Legacy/Outback thread had pointed that out to me. After the fact, I spoke with Bob Holland and he agreed his wife's Forester has throttle mapping that is not that smooth.
I doubt the climate control would bother me at all, BTW. If it turns on the compressor, so what? It's efficient and keeps internal seals lubricated, so I don't have to remember to do that myself.
-juice
Throttle hang is obscure? Well, whatever excuse you want to use. After all, for some people, nothing is their fault.
Hadn't thought of that, but this seems plausible. Holding the throttle open between shifts certainly could help maintain boost. If so, it would be a plus for a performance driver, just as it's a minor annoyance for us plodders.
Adapting the line from Aldous Huxley's Animal Farm...some are moreso than others.
Whatever they did, lag is non-existent, IMO. The engine gets zero complaints from me.
-juice
After my first test drive in an XT (after 1 year in a WRX), I felt that the WRX was the better driver for cruising around town (25-35mph). It seems easier to control the spool-up on the WRX. Lag was a good thing in some situations.
Like you said, zero lag on the XT.
-Dennis
-juice
bob
Larry
Haven't noticed any hanging revs between gears - I assume that's a manual tranny thing that the auto smooths out?
BTW - after missing that steering column in mine, you'll never hear me critique anyone else's initial inspection. Still can't believe they did that..... AND that I missed it :<).
Larry
You just have to be more gentle on the throttle with the XT in daily driving. :-)
-Dennis
p.s. - Don't recall if I mentioned it here, but I picked up my XT last Friday. :-)
There's a considerable difference between missing something big during a detailed inspection and kicking yourself for it, and missing something big during a highly inadequate, rushed inspection, and blaming everything but your lack of personal responsibility for it.
Often when I rent a car for a week, some of the nagging issues only come up on the 3rd or 4th day. There's just no way to simulate every kind of driving you'll do on a test drive, no matter how long.
Just MHO.
-juice
-Frank P.
-juice
juice - your XT envy is showing through. You really should see someone about that. Ross you out there? ;-)
-Ian
Sorry, this just is not logical. To defrost a windshield, you need hot, preferably dry, air. By selecting floor/defrost, you're sending half of the air to the feet instead of the windshield. You should select Defrost and max temp to get the best defrosting action. You should turn the A/C off (if it was ever on in freezing temperatures), at least until the engine is warm and blowing hot air.
MikeF
PS. What happened to winter? All our snow up here has melted after several days of rain. Bring back the snow! :-)
-Frank P.
You and I and everyone else who observe the same behavior are total idiots for not having caught such an obvious flaw during our hasty predelivery checkrides.
-Frank P.
Bob
FWIW, our '97 Saturn SL MT did this...
-Brian
Agreed. You missed the tongue planted firmly in cheek.
I'm willing to bet the '05 Legacy GT will shift the same way.
-Dennis
If you press the front defogger button, the A/C will be on automatically and only cold air will come out of the defroster vents, even with the temperature cranked up. Only usefull for defogging inside fog, not defrosting snow and ice. The only way I found to defrost ice from the windhsield, is by using the floor/defrost setting, temp on high, fan on high, A/C off.
I know this defies logic, but then so does the entire XT climate control system.
I'll be moving to the Bay Area in a few months, so, given the price of housing there, my new car purchase will unfortunately have to wait a while.
JB: I am glad to see you develop a thick skin. Just wanted to let you know that I truly enjoy reading your posts. Please stay with it and keep posting. Sometimes things need to be stated over and over in a medium with changing audience like this one - it should be easy for long-term users to realize this and to adapt to it.
My favorite as a kid was the Fiat 600. A bit more mature looking than the 500.
My now 10-year old manual Golf always had a bit of a throttle hang - I believe it is for emissions reasons and to avoid back firing. It's been a long time and so I have adapted to it - I don't even notice any more that I lift the gas a bit earlier than I used to.
This car seems to have the same gearing as the Forester, so I will be fine if I get the latter (although I agree that given its performance, the XT doesn't need that type of gearing).
I have co-owned four cars in 18 years, two of them with significant mileage when I bought them. I co-owned 2 other cars in 12 years before that, but I hardly ever drove them (used my bicycle and scooter, instead). So, I understand what it means to own a car for a long time, although I also have to admit that I don't baby my cars, and I often find that the one my wife drives registers empty on oil when I check it. However, driving with 2-3 quarts short and with oil changes every 10-12K miles has not had a negative impact on my cars.
OT: If anyone knows about a good school district and not too expensive area to purchase a home in the Berkeley to Walnut Creek area (oxymoron), please let me know.
- D.
Len