Subaru XT Turbo Forester

14950525455131

Comments

  • ezshift5ezshift5 Member Posts: 858
    I'm sure it can be done and wish I were able to provide pointers. But I can't. But I can wish you luck......ez
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Whenever I use the Front Defog button, I only get ice cold air out of the defroster vents, regardless of the A/C button setting or the temp setting.
  • mikef11mikef11 Member Posts: 74
    Sam,

      A silly question, but is the engine warm? It will take a few minutes for the engine to warm up and for you to get hot air. If you still aren't getting warm air out of the defrost vents, you should have it checked out as that is definitely wrong.

    MikeF
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    JB: I am glad to see you develop a thick skin.

    Thanks for kind words, but several here would replace skin with skull.

    However, driving with 2-3 quarts short and with oil changes every 10-12K miles has not had a negative impact on my cars.

    Yikes. I locked the engine of my first car up tight when it developed an oil leak and emptied the crankcase. Not pretty.

    area to purchase a home in the Berkeley to Walnut Creek area (oxymoron), please let me know.

    Look for a nice, conservative Republican neighborhood. Oops - forgot - there aren't any there.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    My favorite as a kid was the Fiat 600. A bit more mature looking than the 500.

    Although, there were darling, tiny 2-seat 500 coupes. I couldn't find a photo of the particular model I liked best, but here's another (check the 3rd row):

    http://home.planet.nl/~fredr079/fl-overig/f500-en.html
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I'm not saying my XT's ability to defrost the windshield is terrific, but if you're turning the A/C compressor off and still getting nothing but cold air from the base-of-windshield slots, yours sounds even worse than others. I'd suggest having it checked.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    I will have the dealer look at it during the next service. In the meantime, using the Floor/Defrost works fine for me.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    JB, I remember that 500 coupe.

    To bring this back to topic, the 600 was obviously the forerunner of the Forester in terms of sun roof size (the liner covering almost the entire roof would roll up)...

    - D.
  • akasrpakasrp Member Posts: 170
    Bit off topic but wondering, especially from the CPA-inclined among you (JB) when is the best time to sell a car - specifically an XT - and receive the best return? Part of my reluctance to buy the XT despite her maddening siren song is that I fear I won’t be able to run (read: be happy) my usual 10+ years with her (my observations that this is a rather noisy vehicle and subject to rattles etc - not lighting a match - just my own observations). If I went in knowing that I was going to sell in, for example, 3 years at about a 70% return much of my apprehension would be mollified. So, is there a magic time to sell?

    New White XT in the local lot has a nice sample of my DNA (drool) on the hood...

    -srp
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    srp- Any CPA will tell you that the longer you keep a vehicle, the better the return on the investment. I think that there's actually a book out that champions the theory that if someone keeps each of their vehicles for an average of 10 years, the money they would save through the years would allow them to retire 5 years earlier. In any case, I think the industry average for residual value after 3 years is only 41%. And while some brands do better than others, you'll be hard pressed to find any vehicle that retains 70% of its value after 3 years. FWIW, my XT is completely rattle free (of course it's still early) and seems very solidly built and I certainly hope to keep it for 10 years :-)

    -Frank P.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I can't give you a very good answer. I don't yet have any Subaru-specific knowledge about year-by-year resale retained-value percentages. Perhaps this data is available on Edmunds and/or other auto websites.

    The optimal year for selling a vehicle depends in part on how well or how badly that make and model retains its value. But as a general rule of thumb, the longer you drive any car, the lower its lifetime average per-year TCO (total cost of ownership) becomes. This is because loss of value from depreciation is greatest in the early years, and tails off to very small annual losses in value in the more distant years.

    Most cars, given reasonable maintenance, are prefectly capable of providing reliable transportation for 80K to 100K miles - often more - before any major repairs become likely. At the average driver's typical 12K miles per year, this suggests that from a pure reliability standpoint, there is usually no need to replace a car oftener than every 6 to 8 years. Replacing a satisfactory car sooner than necessary is usually an extravagant proposition. Those who can afford it and to whom owning the latest model is important, willingly accept the added cost.

    While I could afford to replace my cars every year, my priorities and frugal nature dictate otherwise. So, I instead typically keep them for at least ten years - even longer if the car continues to be satisfactory.
  • krccrkkrccrk Member Posts: 36
    I like to trade cars every few years but all of the incentives from car makers has made it a buyer's market for used cars these last couple of years. I got 60-65% on my three year old Forester S trade-in.

    I will probably keep the XT longer.

    Ken
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    all of the incentives from car makers has made it a buyer's market for used cars these last couple of years.

    No kidding. The highest trade-in offer we received on our 1-owner creampuff loaded (AWD, airbag, ABS, etc) '91 Grand Caravan with barely 100K miles was barely 5% of its original $23K purchase price.

    It's worth more than that to me, as a tow vehicle or mass-mover of people or cargo exceeding the XT's capacity. So I kept it and worked out a deal with State Farm where we suspend all of the insurance except comprehensive between very infrequent uses. We restart full liability, etc. each time we use it, and then suspend again afterward. This way, it won't cost more than $100/year to keep it around. We probably won't put more than a few hundred miles a year on it anymore, so at that rate it'll last forever - and save wear and tear on the Forester for the heavy jobs.
  • akasrpakasrp Member Posts: 170
    Sure, I understand the 10 year ownership benefits - I've never sold a car with less than 10+ years on it - and I always sell - never trade - I 'get' frugal ;-)
    So, what I'm wondering is when does the big hit resale nose-dive occur - i.e., if I were to sell earlier than 10+, when do I sell to minimize loss? My gut says expect a precipitous value drop after 3 years/36K/end of warranty. But I reckon there must be tables on this sort of thing. And of course, hopefully all this ends up moot and the XT and I fly off into the sunset like a couple of Canada Geese. Thanks guys!

    -srp
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    srp- Actually, I think the deprecation for most vehicles is worse during the first three years and noticeably lessens with each succeeding year.

    -Frank P.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    With very rare exceptions, depreciation on any new car will always be greatest in its first year, somewhat less than that in year 2, still less in year 3, and so forth forever. This reality is the practical basis for double-declining-balance and sum-of-years'-digits accelerated depreciation methods used by accountants. I have never seen any data indicating that (in your example) the depreciation for the year after the warranty expired exceeded the depreciation in the prior year (i.e. the last year of the warranty). I personally would not base the timing of my sell-and-replace decision on when the warranty runs out. Except for the Korean 100K-warranty cars, that will usually occur when the car is still in its early, comparatively high-decline years. If you always sell and replace then, you're never owning long enough to get into the genuine low-cost years.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    "And of course, hopefully all this ends up moot and the XT and I fly off into the sunset like a couple of Canada Geese."

    First I have heard of the XT getting raptured up along with believers! I like the idea though :-)

    John
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    like a couple of Canada Geese.

    I think akasrp is getting carried away with thoughts of goosing his XT.
  • akasrpakasrp Member Posts: 170
    ...And you get in your car and you drive real far
    And you drive all night and then you see a light
    And it comes right down and lands on the ground
    And out comes a man from Mars
    And you try to run but he's got a gun
    And he shoots you dead and he eats your head
    And then you're in the man from Mars
    You go out at night, eatin' cars
    You eat Cadillacs, Lincolns too
    Mercurys and Subarus...

    From Rapture Blondie 1980

    now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

    -srp
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    She sang about Subarus in 1980?

    They weren't being sold outside Japan much before that. My wife had one before we met, probably a '77 or '78. Wow, were they homely back then. (Subarus, not wives).
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    jb,

    I'm not sure if you're following the new Legacy GT intro, but the preliminary specs are out. The GT uses a "reinforced" 5MT, probably similar to what the XT uses. The ratios, however, are:

    1st 3.166
    2nd 1.882
    3rd 1.296
    4th 0.972
    5th 0.738
    Final 4.11

    How does that compare with the XT?

    Ken
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Ken,
    All I know is that the XT final is 4.44. Sounds like the new GT will be a better cruiser. I know this is off topic but...I read in another discussion that you want the Auto in your new GT. What's your reasoning? Just curious and trying to decide for myself. ;-)

    -Ian
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    1st 3.166
    2nd 1.882
    3rd 1.296
    4th 0.972
    5th 0.738
    Final 4.11


    The XT's 5-speed ratios are:
    1st 3.454
    2nd 1.947
    3rd 1.366
    4th 0.972
    5th 0.738

    So, compared to the XT, your numbers for the Legacy indicate that its 1st gear is 9.1% taller than the XT's, its 2nd is 9.67% taller, 3rd is 5.4% taller, and 4th and 5th are identical.
    Its 4.11 final drive is 8% taller than the XT's - but the effective overall ratio will also depend on how the tire diameters compare. If the Legacy offers 17" wheels, then its tire diameters may well be as large as the XT's tires even if the Legacy uses a lower high-performance tire profile. So: Assuming similar tire diameters, the Legacy's overall gearing will provide 18% taller 1st, 18.5% taller 2nd, 14% taller 3rd, and 8% taller 4th and 5th.

    I would have been far better off waiting for (and paying more for) the Legacy. <sigh>
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Primarily, 1st gear will get you to a much higher speed, so it should be better geared for real-world driving. Yet it might not produce the jack rabbit starts that get the XT to 30mph quicker than a Ferrari Enzo.

    Let's see about gas mileage. It's lighter and more efficient than the old Legacy.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    "If the Legacy offers 17" wheels, then its tire diameters may well be as large as the XT's tires even if the Legacy uses a lower high-performance tire profile."

    Not to cause you buyer's remorse, but the GT will get 215/45/17's.

    -Dennis
  • corkfishcorkfish Member Posts: 537
    You can always get the Subaru Bucks credit card and pay all your bills with it. Maybe get $500. By year end if they run 0% financing on the Legacy, maybe the sting of selling a relatively new Forester and buying a new Legacy won't be as bad. Alternatively, I bet the tranny from the new Legacy would drop right into the Forester. I wonder what the cost would be though.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    the GT will get 215/45/17's.

    Wow - that's an extremely low profile, lower than I'd want. It's not easy to reduce NVH using such short sidewalls.

    Moreover, by my calculations, that tire is about 9.4% smaller in diameter than the Forester's 215/60x16. That means the Legacy's entire 8% advantage from its taller 4.11 final drive is more than cancelled by its ultra-low-profile tire, even on the larger 17" rim. The Legacy will actually spin (slightly) more RPMs per mile than the XT. Really dumb. If they were going to use that tire, they should have gone to the WRX's 3.9 axles at the very least.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    By year end if they run 0% financing on the Legacy, maybe the sting of selling a relatively new Forester and buying a new Legacy won't be as bad.

    I never finance cars, so 0% wouldn't matter unless there's a cash-rebate alternative. The Legacy GT wagon will probably cost about $30K, and a used XT probably won't bring more than $20K. Too much difference for me, unfortunately.

    Alternatively, I bet the tranny from the new Legacy would drop right into the Forester. I wonder what the cost would be though.

    Quotes I got months ago indicated that swapping in used WRX parts to convert the transmission and rear diff to 3.9 ratios would cost between 2 and 3 thou, parts & labor.
  • corkfishcorkfish Member Posts: 537
    If you make 2% on a money market (ING Direct) and can get 0% financing, you'd be crazy not to finance. I bet dropping a brand new Legacy tranny would be closer to $5000. Unfortunate, because I'd consider a swap.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I actually have one sitting at my shop with 18K on it. The whole driveline from the tranny -> Diffy, etc.

    -mike
  • krccrkkrccrk Member Posts: 36
    The outside temperature guage never showed below +1 degree in the sub-zero (f) weather here in Colorado. I wonder if it is a guage limitation.

    The A/C still comes on in sub-zero weather when I turn on the front defroster. I'd like to replace the automatic POS with the old manual climate control system.

    I get a lot of lifter noise with a cold engine under moderate acceleration. Service guy says that this is normal for Subarus and is okay as long as the noise goes away after the engine warms up.

    Ken
  • overtime1overtime1 Member Posts: 134
    Picked up my new Platinum XT Auto with PP last night. WOOT! I got the following 'extras' - armrest extension, spoiler, splashguards, cargo tray, security system upgrade. I'll describe the purchasing experience more in the more appropriate thread but I got this vehicle right at Invoice. I did wait for the new Legacy specs to be announced before buying. That car looks nice but it is going to be considerably more $ and the hp is similar. I actually prefer the bland/clean/stealth look of the XT more as well (can't believe I said that hehe).

    I'm a pretty happy camper right now...the car only had 10 miles on it when I showed up and was in perfect condition (as you would expect). I know I'm not supposed to go over 4k rpm but its hard to contain myself...I find myself trying to peg my accelerations between 3.6k rpm and 4k rpm now ;-).

    This now becomes the triathlon vehicle and my enormous dog even fits adequately with room for a future friend (but smaller friend!). My 2yr old daughter loves it and is in awe of the sunroof (as am I).

    I'll certainly be posting my thoughts (both positive and negative) here as I gain more experience.

    Thanks for all the great information posted here!

    overtime
  • akasrpakasrp Member Posts: 170
    Lots of buggys up here with the dubious security system/auto dim mirror package.
    SWMBO is vehemently anti-car alarm. Can a dealer remove or disable the XT&#146;s factory security system? If so, your thoughts on the wisdom of the local boys tinkering under the hood and playing with wires.
    And how does window tint (20-35%) affect the auto-dimming mirror?

    -srp

    ps: congrats on the silver pony, overtime!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Pull the brain of the alarm. Should be mounted under the parking brake area.

    -mike
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I bet dropping a brand new Legacy tranny would be closer to $5000. Unfortunate, because I'd consider a swap.

    Probably about right; too bad, because the new Legacy 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ratios are very big improvements. Too bad there isn't also a 6th, about 25% or 30% above 5th, though - that would be perfect.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I actually have one sitting at my shop with 18K on it. The whole driveline from the tranny -> Diffy, etc.

    Tempting, except: A WRX swap would do nothing about the uncomfortably large step between 1st and 2nd, and any conversion of this sort would void the 3/36 and 5/60 warranties. Also, I'd be leery of a used WRX driveline; those cars seem to be bought mainly by people who drive the cr@p out of them.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well this one I happen to know the owner. Never raced, etc. etc. Car got stolen and recovered, but there was an engine fire so the car was totalled. We bought it back for $500 and are parting out the good parts. :)

    -mike
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    The outside temperature guage never showed below +1 degree in the sub-zero (f) weather here in Colorado. I wonder if it is a guage limitation.

    Can't say; we dropped to about 10 above in Portland yesterday evening and overnight, and the temp readout tracked that. That's plenty cold enough for me, brrrrr. I froze my @$$ late last night closing off all of my foundation vents to prevent pipe freezup. Too late to drain the sprinkler system <sigh>.

    The A/C still comes on in sub-zero weather when I turn on the front defroster. I'd like to replace the automatic POS with the old manual climate control system.

    FWIW, I never even try to use the automatic settings anymore. I definitely needed defrost/deice at 5am this morning in 10-degree weather. I was able to get HUGE volumes of very hot air from the windshield-base defroster slots. Here's how I set the system, in case you want to see whether it works for you: (1) Temp dial rotated to max heat. (2) Fan dial rotated to max, though I backed that off before long to reduce the noise and to avoid roasting my face. (3) Mode dial rotated to the rightmost (defrost) position. (4) Tapped the upper button within the mode dial, which apparently puts all airflow to the windshield (cold feet, but can't have everything). (5) That last setting turned on the A/C compressor, which I didn't need, so I tapped the A/C button to turn it off.

    With these settings, I got huge amounts of air to the windshield, and as soon as the engine warmed up it was very hot air. In due course this de-iced the entire windshield except for the uppermost leftmost corner. Maybe the slots don't extend quite far enough out to the outer ends of the windshield? Meanwhile, the electric rear hatch defroster did a dandy (albeit slow) job of de-icing the back glass.

    By 10 am, we have another 3-4" of snow, and predictions of freezing rain/black ice arriving soon. With no studded tires yet to handle ice, I'm not going to hang around work much longer.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    "And how does window tint (20-35%) affect the auto-dimming mirror?"

    The mirror on my WRX still worked fine with 35% tint. As long as you have light coming in from the rear, it should still dim I believe.

    Ken - Another website is gathering info on the auto-climate control problems to forward it to SoA. The guy organizing it said it performs nothing like the auto system in his VDC.

    -Dennis
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Overtime- Congrats! Sheesh! So much for having a unique vehicle, now everybody's driving them :-)

    John- Re. 0% financing: My thoughts exactly. By paying cash you're actually losing money!

    srp- Are you the one who doesn't like the auto-dimming mirror? 20% tint definitely reduces how much the mirror dims but the end result is about the same. If you're watching out for cars with light bars on their roofs, then turning off the auto-dim function is still your best bet. It's been years since I had to worry about such things but I swear, if I make it a whole year without getting a speeding ticket in the XT I'll consider myself extremely lucky!

    -Frank P.
  • krccrkkrccrk Member Posts: 36
    It's very dry where I live, I've haven't had to defog the interior windows in the 6+ months that
    I've owned my XT, so it is especially stupid to have the A/C always trying to come on.

    A/C units need to run every once in a while to keep them lubricated. I wonder if that is why Subaru is so aggressive about turning it on all the time.

    It really is just a minor irritation but I just don't like people complicating my life by trying to stupify things.

    Ken
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    So much for having a unique vehicle, now everybody's driving them :-)

    Even the riffraff. <sigh>
  • overtime1overtime1 Member Posts: 134
    I wouldn't worry about the XT becoming to ubiquitous. I think I've seen only one on the streets of the East Bay (CA) the last month or two.

    overtime
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I absolutely agree that it's ridiculous for the A/C to automatically come on in several of the modes. I do use it for wet-Oregon defogging now and then, but I'm perfectly capable of engaging it when needed.

    I thought you might have been the one who wrote that he wasn't getting anything but cold air out of the windshield defroster slots, so I wanted to say how I got all the heat I could handle.
  • subawoohoosubawoohoo Member Posts: 5
    I've lived with my 5M XT for two months and almost 2k miles now, and would like to make the following comments:

    THE GOOD:

    1. The engine has loosened up very nicely. It seems to run smoother every day, and I am always (pleasantly) surprised at its seemingly inexhaustible desire to scoot. I've made a conscious effort for the last few weeks to run every gear out to 4000-4500 rpms, and my gas mileage has actually gone up about 1 mpg. I'm getting between 19 and 20 with about 50% heavy stop and go commuting.

    2. The heater and AC (on manual), the heated seats, and visibility all rock.

    3. The grin factor is the highest of any vehicle I've ever owned.

    THE NOT-SO-GOOD:

    1. The stereo is so-so at best (even for an OEM unit, and especially for an "upgraded" OEM unit).

    2. The unlit rocker for the door lock kinda irks me. The window rockers are lit - why not the lock button? The button is small, my arms are long, and I still have a hard time finding it in the dark.

    3. When the window lock button is activated (to keep a certain 3-year-old from rolling the rear window down), even the driver can't operate the other windows until the switch is turned off. On every other car I've owned, the driver's switches overrode the lock button. Weird design - bit of a PITA.

    4. Why, when SOA went to so much trouble to differentiate my XT from the X or XS by painting it a "monotone" Cayenne Red, did they go to the extra trouble of painting the side view mirrors, B-pillar, and a stripe on the rear hatch some kind of weird grey? Strange design choice, if you ask me.

    SUMMARY:

    I am very pleased with this vehicle. My complaints are mostly nits. I never expected a 24k car to be perfect, but the XT delivers a lot of bang for the buck. Color me a happy camper.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Benny- I'm actually quite pleased with the XT's stereo. The few people to whom I've given rides to thus far have also been complimentary. I agree with your other not-so-goods (although the grey accents look kinda good with the silver). I suspect you omitted as a not-so-good the AC in auto mode ;-)

    -Frank P.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    My 1999 Legacy has most of these quirks too: window lock disables every friggin window, and the defroster kicks on the A/C. Come to think of it, my '86 4Runner did that as well.
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    Isn't the reason the A/C kicks in during the Defogging mode is to lower the Humidity, thus clearing the Windshield? I know my CRV worked the same way. Living in Miami, the land of Humidity and gigantic Bugs sucks, and Subaru is virtually an unknown Brand down here, I am still quite happy with my XT, yet to see another Subie!
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Sure, that's why the A/C can be useful in severe fog conditions, but that doesn't mean it is always needed. More often, all that's needed is to blow some air at the glass. In those conditions, running the compressor is a drag. I'd rather turn it on occasionally when I need it rather than having to switch it off every time I don't.
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