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Comments
These ideal WOT shift points (even in Drive), together with the excellent ratios and amazing thrust, are what led me to say that the automatic XT I test-drove in early June was as close to perfection as anything I've experienced. Truly delightful.
The 5-speed has a few advantages, but overall the automatic XT is the better car.
I'm not sure whether or not anyone has answered your posts on this issue yet so I'm postin' my experience. This was a super easy installation! I ordered the rear seat and 2 side cargo nets online from subaru.autowebaccessories.com (very good pricing!). The instructions come with the nets. You do need to drill one hole in each plastic cover in the rear cargo area just over the wheel wells and another in the rear of the vehicle just over where the cargo cover slot is located (that was already done by the dealer because my xt pp at came with a rear cargo net installed). It took me all of five minutes to do and I'm glad I did. It's a great place for windshield wiper fluid, no rockin' around and it's quiet!
mikenjenn
Before the first service (which is scheduled at
12,500km) I've noticed that oil level was getting low. I've topped it up at around 4000 mark with exactly 1 liter of oil, and again at around 8-9000 with another liter.
At the service I've told Subaru about it, few eyebrows raised, "running in perhaps, very thin oil initially, keep an eye on it" etc. etc.
I did keep an eye, and after 3200km took it back to Subaru where they had to to up another 0.7 liters. That raised an alarm a bit, so I questioned normality of this.
What I got as response rang the alarm bells even more ! Apparently, anything up to one liter of oil per 2000km is still considered "normal" by Subaru.
Well, if my car was 25 years old with a blown gasket, perhaps. As is, I have this wonderful high tech engine that could burn more oil than does petrol, and that to me doesn't sound right.
Anyone with similar problem ? Sorry, "experience", as clearly Subaru doesn't see this as a problem.
Bratislav
I disagreed then, and I disagree now. About the time that adding 3 qts of oil between oil changes becomes normal I'd start adding STP in big doses. Of course that usually doesn't happen until the engine hits 150,000 miles or so.
Larry
Let's say that you change oil every 4,000 miles, and that it's not objectionable to have to add one quart between each oil change. If you drive the typical 12,000 miles per year, this means you'd be buying 3 extra quarts per year.
Suppose instead your car requires adding a quart every 1000 miles (thus needing 3 quarts between changes, instead of one). The difference between the high-consumption vehicle and the "normal" one (above) is 6 extra quarts annually. That works out to about 6 bucks per year of additional expense. I would never expect a car manufacturer to absorb substantial expense overhauling or replacing my engine just to save me 6 bucks per year.
Therefore, while mine is undoubtedly a minority viewpoint, I don't find Subaru's position on what constitutes "acceptable" oil consumption to be even slightly unreasonable unless it is due to messy leaks.
The one quart between per 3000 mile interval is pretty much industry standard, not just for Subaru.
-juice
Imagine a 5EAT Sportshift like in the Legacy GT and Outback XT. Those are gonna be sweet!
Agreed. The current XT automatic is so good that I'm drooling at the thought of a 5EAT.
We also talked about gearing for the Outback XT 5 speed. I was wondering if you thought the spacing was any better than the F-XT 5MT.
-juice
John
Subies tend to be high in calcium, or was it magnesium? Within normal specs, though. :-)
-juice
I guess I'm a klutz; I never have any luck finding anything in the various Future Models threads. If you can indicate here what the new gearbox ratios are, I'll be glad to compare and comment. Bear in mind that any comparison among final drive ratios must take differing tire sizes into account.
John
Yeah, got these from media.subaru.com, just click on Outback under Product Info then open the PDF files they link to the right.
OK, OB-XT gets a 4.44 final drive ratio. Gears are as follows:
1st 3.454
2nd 1.947
3rd 1.366
4th 0.972
5th 0.738
reverse 3.333
Tire size is 225/55R17.
Legacy GT is *totally* different, 4.11 final drive with different ratios, but let's leave that model out of this for now.
The site does not have XT specs for ratios.
-juice
The XT appears to reach full operating temp within 2 miles. The closest store to my home is over 5 miles away, and my daily commute is 12 miles each way. I only rarely encounter true stop-and-go congestion. I don't tow, and I rarely carry much of a load. Most of my driving is on Interstates, and I never abuse the machinery.
Despite manufacturer-suggested intervals, many shops suggest short 3,000 mile change intervals even for vehicles in light or normal use, let alone severe. With ordinary oil, I would probably change at 5,000 mile intervals under my driving conditions. I don't think I'll spring for synthetics unless my change intervals can reasonably be extended to 7,500 miles.
Pros? Cons? Comments?
Yep, it's all in there.
FYI, here are the top-gear equations for each.
RPM = ALPHA x MPH
Where ALPHA is given by:
Outback 2.5i MT 45.186
Outback 2.5i AT 38.894
Outback 2.5XT MT 41.184
Outback 2.5XT AT 37.526
Outback 3.0R AT 34.277
Legacy 2.5GT MT 41.415
Legacy 2.5GT MT 37.237
Forester XT MT 42.107
Forester XT AT 39.597
ALPHA takes into account wheel diameter, final drive ratio, and the top gear ratio.
Craig
John
I was trying to look at the 1-2 gap in shifts that JB brings up on occasion.
-juice
1st 3.454
2nd 1.947
3rd 1.366
4th 0.972
5th 0.738
Tire size is 225/55R17.
I don't see anything in this to celebrate. The transmission gear ratios you listed are identical to the XT (and WRX), meaning (among other things) that what I consider to be a huge, awkward gap between 2nd and a too-low 1st is unchanged.
Additionally, with the identical 5th-gear ratios and final drives, and with tires that are only 2.2% taller than the F-XT's (despite being on 17" wheels), the OB-XT's engine will be spinning only 2% slower than the F-XT's at any given top-gear MPH. So, instead of the F-XT's 3,500rpm at 80mph, the OB-XT will be turning 3,430 - an insignificant, unnoticeable difference.
The Outback XT would redline in 1st gear at a slightly higher speed, right? Didn't you complain about having to shift to 2nd before the end of the intersection?
Any how, seems like 1st gear is a creeper gear for towing and such. Towing is rumored to be 2700-3000 lbs or so.
-juice
1st 3.166 (3.454) OB XT in parethesis
2nd 1.882 (1.947)
3rd 1.296 (1.366)
4th 0.972 (0.972) -> same!
5th 0.738 (0.738) -> same!
reverse 3.333 (3.333)
So interestingly, 4th and 5th are the same, but spacing for 1st-3rd are all taller. You might like that better, right Jack?
Tire size is 215/45R17 instead of 225/55R17, but the taller final drive basically offsets the difference in tires sizes.
So JB, there you go, ask Subaru to put Legacy GT gears in the XT!
-juice
Equipment model: 2.0L Turbo
Oil use interval: 5,427
Oil type & Grade: Mobil 1 10W30 SS
Make-up oil added: 0
Miles on unit: 13,375
Air filter: Amsoil
Oil filter: OEM (Purolator)
Properties
SUS Viscosity @ 210F: 59.1 (Should be 58-64) Flashpoint: 415F (>370)
Fuel %: .5 (<1.0)
Antifreeze: 0 (0)
Water: 0 (0)
Insolubules: .5 (<.5)
Dennis: Copper and Silicon both read high in this sample, though neither are high enough to worry about. silicon may show some dirt getting past the air filter, and this could be causing some of the copper TBN 3.3, so the oil still has some life left
Equipment make: Subaru
Equipment model: 2.5L
Oil use interval: 3,875
Oil type & Grade: Castrol GTX 10W30
Make-up oil added: 0
Miles on unit: 70,848
Air filter: K&N
Oil filter: OEM (Purolator)
Properties
SUS Viscosity @ 210F: 60.3 (Should be 59-65)
Flashpoint: 365F (>360)
Fuel %: .5 (<2.0)
Antifreeze: 0 (0)
Water: 0 (<.1)
Insolubules: .4 (<.6)
Dennis: Everything looks very good in the initial sample from this engine. All wear read well below average, which is a good indication of normal wearing parts and careful operation (wife's car
-Dennis
-juice
The Outback XT would redline in 1st gear at a slightly higher speed, right?
No, the XT's final drive is 4.44, identical to what you listed for the OB-XT. The only difference between their redline speeds in any gear will be the OB-XT's 2.2% taller tire diameter, which is insignificant. That would add only about 6/10 of 1 mph to the redline speed in 1st gear.
Yes, except that according to earlier calculations on the Legacy GT's final drive, 5th gear ratio, and tire size, it is only about 1.5% taller than the F-XT. It needs at least a 3.9 final drive, and 3.7 or 3.55 would be better still.
But I'm looking at 1st, and the shift to 2nd. That would occure at a higher speed, so you could at least get across that intersection.
In other words, it might cure one of your two concerns with the gearing.
-juice
/WebX?ed_displayMakeModelRelatedD- iscussions@@.ef14c39!make=Subaru&model=A- ll
Now, the question is: Is the rest of the Edmunds-Subie community ready for for you?
Bob
For those who have done this, when did you change to synthetic oil?
- I've been using synthetic on my (non-turbo) cars for a long time, but I didn't do it until 30k or so (too little, too late???...depending on who you ask).
"Unless a car leaks oil, which would mess up my garage floor and driveway, or unless it's burning so much oil that it won't pass emissions requirements, I don't get too concerned about adding oil now and then.
Let's say that you change oil every 4,000 miles, and that it's not objectionable to have to add one quart between each oil change. If you drive the typical 12,000 miles per year, this means you'd be buying 3 extra quarts per year."
I have no problem with spending more money on oil.
What I'm not so easy with is the fact that there's something not quite right with my engine (obviously a vast majority of people do NOT have their engines burn that much oil). It doesn't give me much confidence that it will last for very long if its tolerances are sub standard.
Bratislav
Please advise-I'm probably paranoid, and still getting used to the incredible difference from the Outback to Rocket.
Thanks.
Bob
-Frank P.
Bob
Not bad!
-juice
Do you know what kind of dyno was used?
Don
-juice
This tank = 20.9 mpg (~70% highway/30% town mix).
Average on all 811 miles = 20.46 mpg.
91 octane was $1.93 @ Costco in Lancaster CA.
Maybe it's just me, but I still think the idea of conquering an Oil Rich Sovereign Nation sounds good ;-)
-srp
1st tank = 23.6 mpg @ avg 75 mph
2nd tank = 23.0 mpg @ avg 80 mph
3rd tank = 24.5 mpg @ avg 80 mph
On the last tank I finally got smart and took the cross bars off which gave me a 1.5 mpg boost. I am quite pleased with the 24.5 mpg considering how fast I was going :-)
With almost 4k on the odo, combined avg mpg = 23.1 (eat your heart out Jack)
Richard- How in the heck do you get only 13.2 mpg?!?! Are you dumping the clutch at every green light?
-Frank P.
the idea of conquering an Oil Rich Sovereign Nation sounds good ;-)
With each hike in pump prices, I begin thinking the same thing.
combined avg mpg = 23.1 (eat your heart out Jack)
My long-term average through 5,800 miles now stands at just over 21.3, in approx 70% freeway, 30% suburban driving. I'm using mostly mid-grade 89-octane during the cold weather, though I may switch back to 91 this summer.