Subaru XT Turbo Forester

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Comments

  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    It does upshift at 6500 on the button if I keep it floored.

    These ideal WOT shift points (even in Drive), together with the excellent ratios and amazing thrust, are what led me to say that the automatic XT I test-drove in early June was as close to perfection as anything I've experienced. Truly delightful.

    The 5-speed has a few advantages, but overall the automatic XT is the better car.
  • mikenjennmikenjenn Member Posts: 1
    stuhall,
       I'm not sure whether or not anyone has answered your posts on this issue yet so I'm postin' my experience. This was a super easy installation! I ordered the rear seat and 2 side cargo nets online from subaru.autowebaccessories.com (very good pricing!). The instructions come with the nets. You do need to drill one hole in each plastic cover in the rear cargo area just over the wheel wells and another in the rear of the vehicle just over where the cargo cover slot is located (that was already done by the dealer because my xt pp at came with a rear cargo net installed). It took me all of five minutes to do and I'm glad I did. It's a great place for windshield wiper fluid, no rockin' around and it's quiet!

    mikenjenn
  • bratislav3162bratislav3162 Member Posts: 9
    My Forester XT (5m) has covered around 16,000km (~10,000 miles) so far. Mostly city, some interstate.

    Before the first service (which is scheduled at
    12,500km) I've noticed that oil level was getting low. I've topped it up at around 4000 mark with exactly 1 liter of oil, and again at around 8-9000 with another liter.
    At the service I've told Subaru about it, few eyebrows raised, "running in perhaps, very thin oil initially, keep an eye on it" etc. etc.
    I did keep an eye, and after 3200km took it back to Subaru where they had to to up another 0.7 liters. That raised an alarm a bit, so I questioned normality of this.
    What I got as response rang the alarm bells even more ! Apparently, anything up to one liter of oil per 2000km is still considered "normal" by Subaru.
    Well, if my car was 25 years old with a blown gasket, perhaps. As is, I have this wonderful high tech engine that could burn more oil than does petrol, and that to me doesn't sound right.

    Anyone with similar problem ? Sorry, "experience", as clearly Subaru doesn't see this as a problem.

    Bratislav
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    This thread appeared earlier and the person having the problem - I think it turned out to be PCV valve that was stuck received the same response - unless its more than 1 qt per month/per 1000 miles everything's fine.

    I disagreed then, and I disagree now. About the time that adding 3 qts of oil between oil changes becomes normal I'd start adding STP in big doses. Of course that usually doesn't happen until the engine hits 150,000 miles or so.

    Larry
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Unless a car leaks oil, which would mess up my garage floor and driveway, or unless it's burning so much oil that it won't pass emissions requirements, I don't get too concerned about adding oil now and then.

    Let's say that you change oil every 4,000 miles, and that it's not objectionable to have to add one quart between each oil change. If you drive the typical 12,000 miles per year, this means you'd be buying 3 extra quarts per year.

    Suppose instead your car requires adding a quart every 1000 miles (thus needing 3 quarts between changes, instead of one). The difference between the high-consumption vehicle and the "normal" one (above) is 6 extra quarts annually. That works out to about 6 bucks per year of additional expense. I would never expect a car manufacturer to absorb substantial expense overhauling or replacing my engine just to save me 6 bucks per year.

    Therefore, while mine is undoubtedly a minority viewpoint, I don't find Subaru's position on what constitutes "acceptable" oil consumption to be even slightly unreasonable unless it is due to messy leaks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    JB: Imagine a 5EAT Sportshift like in the Legacy GT and Outback XT. Those are gonna be sweet!

    The one quart between per 3000 mile interval is pretty much industry standard, not just for Subaru.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I would consider 1 quart per 3000 miles to be completely normal. The issue is that several people have apparently been told by Subaru that the company doesn't consider consumption of 1 quart in 1000 miles to be sufficiently abnormal to require warranty repair. My message was to indicate that unless the oil loss is due to visible leaks, or unless it prevents passing emissions tests, I agree with Subaru. I would not expect them to repair or replace an engine merely because it burned 1 quart in 1000 miles.

    Imagine a 5EAT Sportshift like in the Legacy GT and Outback XT. Those are gonna be sweet!

    Agreed. The current XT automatic is so good that I'm drooling at the thought of a 5EAT.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did you see Future Models? A while back I commented on the final drive ratios for all the new Outbacks.

    We also talked about gearing for the Outback XT 5 speed. I was wondering if you thought the spacing was any better than the F-XT 5MT.

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    does not exist on my 2.5 NA engine. 7,000 miles since last change (running Mobil 1 5W30) not a drop different. I am impressed.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Most of the guys here that have sent their oil for an analysis have reported great results.

    Subies tend to be high in calcium, or was it magnesium? Within normal specs, though. :-)

    -juice
  • corkfishcorkfish Member Posts: 537
    John, when did you switch to synthetic? I'm thinking or putting some Amsoil in at 6000 miles ( too soon?) I know turbos are supposed to respond well to synthetics, notice any difference?
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Did you see Future Models? A while back I commented on the final drive ratios for all the new Outbacks.

    I guess I'm a klutz; I never have any luck finding anything in the various Future Models threads. If you can indicate here what the new gearbox ratios are, I'll be glad to compare and comment. Bear in mind that any comparison among final drive ratios must take differing tire sizes into account.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I switched at 1,000 miles. Others have different opinions.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was thinking of your concern with the 1st-2nd shift. Let me see if I can find the #s for the Outback XT now...

    Yeah, got these from media.subaru.com, just click on Outback under Product Info then open the PDF files they link to the right.

    OK, OB-XT gets a 4.44 final drive ratio. Gears are as follows:

    1st 3.454
    2nd 1.947
    3rd 1.366
    4th 0.972
    5th 0.738
    reverse 3.333

    Tire size is 225/55R17.

    Legacy GT is *totally* different, 4.11 final drive with different ratios, but let's leave that model out of this for now.

    The site does not have XT specs for ratios.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Subaru specifies changing oil at 7,500 mile intervals, except for severe conditions. Severe conditions are usually defined as including factors like trailer towing, hot and/or dusty environment, a preponderance of short trips (where the engine can't fully warm up), stop-and-go driving, and so forth.

    The XT appears to reach full operating temp within 2 miles. The closest store to my home is over 5 miles away, and my daily commute is 12 miles each way. I only rarely encounter true stop-and-go congestion. I don't tow, and I rarely carry much of a load. Most of my driving is on Interstates, and I never abuse the machinery.

    Despite manufacturer-suggested intervals, many shops suggest short 3,000 mile change intervals even for vehicles in light or normal use, let alone severe. With ordinary oil, I would probably change at 5,000 mile intervals under my driving conditions. I don't think I'll spring for synthetics unless my change intervals can reasonably be extended to 7,500 miles.

    Pros? Cons? Comments?
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    is Craig's post from the Future Models:

    Yep, it's all in there.

    FYI, here are the top-gear equations for each.

           RPM = ALPHA x MPH

    Where ALPHA is given by:

    Outback 2.5i MT 45.186
    Outback 2.5i AT 38.894
    Outback 2.5XT MT 41.184
    Outback 2.5XT AT 37.526
    Outback 3.0R AT 34.277
    Legacy 2.5GT MT 41.415
    Legacy 2.5GT MT 37.237
    Forester XT MT 42.107
    Forester XT AT 39.597

    ALPHA takes into account wheel diameter, final drive ratio, and the top gear ratio.

    Craig
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I switched to synthetics in order to get 7,500 miles between changes. Since I am a DIY, I have 2 vehicles with 15,000 per year, I am under the cars 4 times instead of 10 times like I would be for a 3,000 mile interval. I think it pencils out economically, but mainly it is the time issue for me.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, but that's looking only at top gear. So you can figure that the Outback 2.5i will rev highest on the highway.

    I was trying to look at the 1-2 gap in shifts that JB brings up on occasion.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    OK, OB-XT gets a 4.44 final drive ratio. Gears are as follows:
    1st 3.454
    2nd 1.947
    3rd 1.366
    4th 0.972
    5th 0.738
    Tire size is 225/55R17.


    I don't see anything in this to celebrate. The transmission gear ratios you listed are identical to the XT (and WRX), meaning (among other things) that what I consider to be a huge, awkward gap between 2nd and a too-low 1st is unchanged.

    Additionally, with the identical 5th-gear ratios and final drives, and with tires that are only 2.2% taller than the F-XT's (despite being on 17" wheels), the OB-XT's engine will be spinning only 2% slower than the F-XT's at any given top-gear MPH. So, instead of the F-XT's 3,500rpm at 80mph, the OB-XT will be turning 3,430 - an insignificant, unnoticeable difference.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What is the final drive for the XT? I thought it was 4.7:1 or something like that.

    The Outback XT would redline in 1st gear at a slightly higher speed, right? Didn't you complain about having to shift to 2nd before the end of the intersection?

    Any how, seems like 1st gear is a creeper gear for towing and such. Towing is rumored to be 2700-3000 lbs or so.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, now let's bring the GT back in to this discussion. It gets 4.11:1 final drive and:

    1st 3.166 (3.454) OB XT in parethesis
    2nd 1.882 (1.947)
    3rd 1.296 (1.366)
    4th 0.972 (0.972) -> same!
    5th 0.738 (0.738) -> same!
    reverse 3.333 (3.333)

    So interestingly, 4th and 5th are the same, but spacing for 1st-3rd are all taller. You might like that better, right Jack?

    Tire size is 215/45R17 instead of 225/55R17, but the taller final drive basically offsets the difference in tires sizes.

    So JB, there you go, ask Subaru to put Legacy GT gears in the XT!

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    This is part of my used oil analyses that I did on the WRX and the OB. UOA by http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

    Equipment model: 2.0L Turbo
    Oil use interval: 5,427
    Oil type & Grade: Mobil 1 10W30 SS
    Make-up oil added: 0
    Miles on unit: 13,375
    Air filter: Amsoil
    Oil filter: OEM (Purolator)

    Properties
    SUS Viscosity @ 210F: 59.1 (Should be 58-64) Flashpoint: 415F (>370)
    Fuel %: .5 (<1.0)
    Antifreeze: 0 (0)
    Water: 0 (0)
    Insolubules: .5 (<.5)

    Dennis: … Copper and Silicon both read high in this sample, though neither are high enough to worry about. … silicon may show some dirt getting past the air filter, and this could be causing some of the copper …TBN 3.3, so the oil still has some life left …

    Equipment make: Subaru
    Equipment model: 2.5L
    Oil use interval: 3,875
    Oil type & Grade: Castrol GTX 10W30
    Make-up oil added: 0
    Miles on unit: 70,848
    Air filter: K&N
    Oil filter: OEM (Purolator)

    Properties
    SUS Viscosity @ 210F: 60.3 (Should be 59-65)
    Flashpoint: 365F (>360)
    Fuel %: .5 (<2.0)
    Antifreeze: 0 (0)
    Water: 0 (<.1)
    Insolubules: .4 (<.6)

    Dennis: Everything looks very good in the initial sample from this engine. All wear read well below average, which is a good indication of normal wearing parts and careful operation (wife's car :)). Insolubules (oil oxidation due to heat, use and blowby) were low at 0.4%, showing good oil filtration. No fuel dilution or anti-freeze was found. Silicon was not excessive at 11 ppm, so we think your air filtration is still getting the job done. At 70,848 total miles, this engine appears to be doing well."

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You know, if you were debating whether to keep a vehicle or trade it in, this might not be a bad test to try. Seems like it could really tell you how well your engine is performing on the inside. It's like an X-ray, almost.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    What is the final drive for the XT? I thought it was 4.7:1 or something like that.
    The Outback XT would redline in 1st gear at a slightly higher speed, right?


    No, the XT's final drive is 4.44, identical to what you listed for the OB-XT. The only difference between their redline speeds in any gear will be the OB-XT's 2.2% taller tire diameter, which is insignificant. That would add only about 6/10 of 1 mph to the redline speed in 1st gear.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    So interestingly, 4th and 5th are the same, but spacing for 1st-3rd are all taller. You might like that better, right Jack?

    Yes, except that according to earlier calculations on the Legacy GT's final drive, 5th gear ratio, and tire size, it is only about 1.5% taller than the F-XT. It needs at least a 3.9 final drive, and 3.7 or 3.55 would be better still.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    1.5% taller in 5th.

    But I'm looking at 1st, and the shift to 2nd. That would occure at a higher speed, so you could at least get across that intersection.

    In other words, it might cure one of your two concerns with the gearing.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Yes, the Legacy GT's closer spacing would provide higher speeds in the first 3 gears, even though it offers scant improvement in top.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Here's how I have my Edmunds-Subaru threads bookmarked. This shows every Subie thread on Edmunds, including Future Models.

    /WebX?ed_displayMakeModelRelatedD- iscussions@@.ef14c39!make=Subaru&model=A- ll

    Now, the question is: Is the rest of the Edmunds-Subie community ready for for you? ;)

    Bob
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    I am yet to live in an area that didn't qualify as a severe area. Miami is the Tropics, and my previous Home of Southern California was a Severe Condition area. And I would think any area that Freezes would also be a severe area. At 3 Months I made the change to Saab Synthetic Oil, and immediately noticed less Turbo Flutter. Synthetic was highly suggested by the Subaru Master Tech. This also allows me to extend time between Severe Service intervals. It is also important to keep up some sort of Relationship with your Mechanic, and Oil changes are a good way of starting off your Service History at a relatively cheap cost?
  • madison_1madison_1 Member Posts: 2
    I'm about to buy an F-XT (MT). And after reading your excellent board, I'm convinced that I will not regret the purchase (except for the speeding tix).

    For those who have done this, when did you change to synthetic oil?
    - I've been using synthetic on my (non-turbo) cars for a long time, but I didn't do it until 30k or so (too little, too late???...depending on who you ask).
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    Make sure it's exactly what you want , try em' in a few different Colors & Styles, take one home for an extended Test Drive this Holiday Weekend! Your question about using Synthetic Oil is good, I would like to admit it might be a total waste at this point, as is using 93 Octane gas , but the Mechanic insisted. In fact I had just said No, but something about the Language Barrier ( I don't speak Spanish) and that the Aluminum High Performance Turbo Engine deserves the best oil possible. Of course my worthless free Subaru Pre Paid Maintainence plan (4 Oil changes for around $300) does not include Synthetic Oil!
  • bratislav3162bratislav3162 Member Posts: 9
    Ballistic wrote :

    "Unless a car leaks oil, which would mess up my garage floor and driveway, or unless it's burning so much oil that it won't pass emissions requirements, I don't get too concerned about adding oil now and then.

    Let's say that you change oil every 4,000 miles, and that it's not objectionable to have to add one quart between each oil change. If you drive the typical 12,000 miles per year, this means you'd be buying 3 extra quarts per year."

    I have no problem with spending more money on oil.
    What I'm not so easy with is the fact that there's something not quite right with my engine (obviously a vast majority of people do NOT have their engines burn that much oil). It doesn't give me much confidence that it will last for very long if its tolerances are sub standard.

    Bratislav
  • xtpremiumxtpremium Member Posts: 9
    I have 1,700 miles on a new Forester XT. I traded an '01 Outback 2.5L. I know Boxer 2.5's sound different overall when running, but I can hear a tick at low RPM's (less than 20 MPH) that I'm curious about. Is it normal for the 2.5 turbo to have a bit of a tick a low RPM's or is it time for a service call?

    Please advise-I'm probably paranoid, and still getting used to the incredible difference from the Outback to Rocket.

    Thanks.
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
  • thors_hammerthors_hammer Member Posts: 32
    Anyone have the link to the dyno testing of the XT? I tried a search and couldn't find the link. Thanks in advance.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Bob- I couldn't get that link to work. From the file name I'm guessing that it's a picture of the dyno readout for your FXT. So what did the dyno show? The suspense is killing me :-)

    -Frank P.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    But now it doesn't. Must be sunspots.
  • bobshere1bobshere1 Member Posts: 59
    I understand I can't supply a more specific link in this forum because of restrictions here. You could try googling "foresterxt files" and see if you can find anything ;) It would be in "Files".

             Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So far dyno tests peg it at about 250 hp and 265 lb-ft of torque.

    Not bad!

    -juice
  • andmoonandmoon Member Posts: 320
    That's not at the wheel is it?
    Do you know what kind of dyno was used?
    Don
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Several different dyno installations have evaluated the XT - Cobb, Vishnu, etc. They estimate its actual HP at the crankshaft to be around 240-250, based on its observed HP at the wheels (around 190) compared to various other vehicles (most commonly, the WRX, which apparently produces around 170 HP at the wheels).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I meant at the crank, not at the wheels.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Don't get cranky with us...
  • rslnp1rslnp1 Member Posts: 29
    Just filled up my FXT/AT at the same pump as my last fillup. The car got 13.2 mpg in all city driving (about 6 stop and goes per mile). This was one half mile per gallon less than the last fillup. The last time I did all highway driving between fillups, I got 24 mpg averaging 75mph. My FXT now has 2300 miles.
  • akasrpakasrp Member Posts: 170
    Just filled up today, too.
    This tank = 20.9 mpg (~70% highway/30% town mix).
    Average on all 811 miles = 20.46 mpg.
    91 octane was $1.93 @ Costco in Lancaster CA.

    Maybe it's just me, but I still think the idea of conquering an Oil Rich Sovereign Nation sounds good ;-)

    -srp
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I took a 900 mile hwy trip this past weekend:
     
    1st tank = 23.6 mpg @ avg 75 mph
    2nd tank = 23.0 mpg @ avg 80 mph
    3rd tank = 24.5 mpg @ avg 80 mph

    On the last tank I finally got smart and took the cross bars off which gave me a 1.5 mpg boost. I am quite pleased with the 24.5 mpg considering how fast I was going :-)

    With almost 4k on the odo, combined avg mpg = 23.1 (eat your heart out Jack)

    Richard- How in the heck do you get only 13.2 mpg?!?! Are you dumping the clutch at every green light?

    -Frank P.
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    Now I know why I too have been getting such bad Mileage with my A/T XT , have been too hard on my Clutch! p0926, just imagine the possibilities if you slowed down to the posted speeds, I see 30 MPG in your future?
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I was really, really low on the gauge today and was sure I would run dry. But after filling to the second click (as I always do), the tank only took 13.4 gallons on 313 miles, or 23.35 mpg. That's my second best tankful ever, but I suspect somehow the tank was left less-full than usual. It wasn't one of the stations I usually use.

    the idea of conquering an Oil Rich Sovereign Nation sounds good ;-)

    With each hike in pump prices, I begin thinking the same thing.

    combined avg mpg = 23.1 (eat your heart out Jack)

    My long-term average through 5,800 miles now stands at just over 21.3, in approx 70% freeway, 30% suburban driving. I'm using mostly mid-grade 89-octane during the cold weather, though I may switch back to 91 this summer.
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    you don't claim average Speeds of 80 or 90, or to wave at cops when you buzz by them. Actually it's always a bad idea to wave at Cops. Now to your weak points, not keeping at least 1/4 Tank at all times, and not using 91 Octane, per the Manual!
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