Subaru XT Turbo Forester

ballistic

"Those of us with the NA engine discuss how to improve performance, while those with the Turbo discuss how to reduce performance, increase mpg..."

I'm apparently the only one in the latter category. The thing is, I ordered my XT back in May, when the ONLY authoritative indicator of its performance was Subaru of Canada's published 0-100KM in 6.1 sec, equivalent to 0-60mph in 5.8 or so. I had a certain expectation as to both performance and fuel cost. Unlike most XT buyers, that latter item actually does matter to me. No one knew back in May that it definitely would require premium grade; no one knew the EPA ratings would be substantially lower than the WRX's, and certainly no one knew the thing would turn out to be as mind-bendingly quick as it actually is. Prior to the C&D test, I don't think there was one sober person who actually predicted 0-60 in 5.3 or 13.8 in the quarter.

So: Lots of people are ecstatic about their XTs. There are even some XT owners who are busily planning modifications to get even more power. Me, I'm tooling around in a car that actually exceeds my acceleration expectations, which would have been fully met if 0-60 took somewhere around 6 seconds. That would easily have been within reach if Subaru had chosen to go with taller 3.9 gears, which would have provided a different balance between performance and operating costs. Would anyone have complained if the XT came with 3.9 gears, did 0-60 in 5.9, and finished the quarter in 14.1 at 94 - AND got EPA ratings of 20 city and 25-26 highway? I think the answer is NO - people would still have fallen all over themselves praising those numbers. But, unpredictably, Subaru went for all-out acceleration instead, sacrificing fuel consumption, highway RPMs, and several other qualities.

Because I don't happen to need THIS much performance, I'm seeking ways to bring both the performance and the operating costs somewhat closer to my initial goals.

As they say...different strokes.

jb

subearu

I managed to finally get an email from SOA on what 'direct control' is in relation to the XT AT. See subearu "Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II" Jul 18, 2003 5:15pm

Nothing we already didn't know - it's not VTD or biased 45/55 like the WRX AT. Just the standard 4EAT renamed.

-Brian

kens

Brian,

Nice work. Finally a definitive answer from SOA. Too bad it wasn't anything more than a rebranded 4EAT.

It seems kind of lame that they would focus attention on it in their press releases/brochure when it's nothing new.

So then, the answer begs the question -- why rebrand it just on the Forester XT? Why not change all their 4EAT naming to Direct Control?

Ken

subewannabe

i recently worked through all the variables in connection with shopping an extended warranty for my wife's audi A6 that was about to go beyond the very comprehensive audi factory warranty. While i was concerned that many aftermarket warranty underwriters wont even offer A6 extended warranty policies, and even a brief tour of the posts in the A6 boards leaves you feeling that audi owners are masochists ( frequent use of the term "breathtaking" in reference to out-of-warranty repair costs!), what made my decision in the end was a careful comparison to my first 3 years' service records to the coverage terms of the extended warranty.
    Conclusion: NONE of the repairs required in the first 3 years would have been covered under the most comprehensive aftermarket plan offered! I am starting to believe that most modern cars, like TV's, computers and other electronics, will leave the factory with most of the problems they will ever have, kind of like gentic codes: If the problem hasnt surfaced in 45K miles,its a low probability threat. That made it easier to keep that $1800 in my checking account, where it may , or may not, be needed one day !
Mark

p0926

Juice- We'll have to agree to disagree on the extended warranty (which IIRC, you use to be against) but for me the bottom line is that if they are such a good deal and money saver for buyers, why are dealers so eager to sell them? The answer is easy; they are a major source of profit. So even using rudimentary logic, if the dealer/warranty provider is making money, somebody has to be losing out in the deal and that somebody is the buyer.

John- Hmmm... quite the fascinating observation and how true!

Jack- You're right; the XT's performance figures have astounded everyone. On the other hand, I think everyone was pretty much assuming that premium would be required (heck there are plenty of high-performance non-turbo engines that require the expensive stuff). And while the hwy mpg is 2-3 mpg less than expected, 18 for the city is about right given all that low-end torque. Look at the bright side; the XT still has better EPA numbers than many competitors and can run rings around them!

Jason- I just finished that One Lap article also. Yep, it would be awesome if an XT could beat the Cayenne (a vehicle costing almost 4X as much) and you're right, it wouldn't take that much in the way of mods ;-)

-Frank P.

ballistic

Frank says, "I think everyone was pretty much assuming that premium would be required (heck there are plenty of high-performance non-turbo engines that require the expensive stuff)."

That's true. But it's also true that the same basic engine produces 300bhp and 300 lbs/ft in the STi. I think it would have (maybe even should have) been *possible* to de-tune that powerplant to 210bhp by, among other things, re-programming the ECU to regulate boost and advance so that the engine would operate operate satisfactorily on 87-octane. Viewed in that light, it's not that far-fetched.

jb

p0926

Jack- Well they probably could have but then they would have been bucking the industry trend which seems to be more and more towards designing engines that demand the higher octanes.

-Frank P.

mgpotter

I had been looking to replace my 1993 Impreza and I have 2 young kids so a WRX wasn't practical. Our other car is an Outback, so I didn't need to get anything too large. I almost bought a Forester last year, but delayed the purchase and I'm glad I did now that the XT is out.

I live in the East Bay of SF and I went between the dealers here. I managed to get the car for $500 over invoice, which is the most over invoice I've paid for the 3 cars I'm bought previously. I got the sense that I could have purchased it for a little cheaper if I had negotiated much harder, but the dealers were much less willing to offer up lower prices compared to the 2003's.

I ended up getting it at Livermore Subaru which is where we're been taking our cars for more than routine maintenance.

I chose the Automatic and Cayene Red. I like Red and drove a non-red car for 10 years, so this time I was going to make sure the car was red.

The only options I chose were the bumper cover, cargo nets, cargo spotlight (I've done a fair amount of camping and a bright light seemed like a good idea to me), and splash guards (2 different "popular equipment" groups.

The only glitch was in the final payment. I wanted to put $2K on my credit card (might as get a few miles out of it) and the back-end guy gave me a song and dance story about the legal problem that causes because it creates 2 lien holders.

That sounded like BS to me and a call to my credit card company confirmed it. When I told them I was willing to just buy the car at one of the other dealers (hard line to take with the new car sitting there ready to drive away), he relented (and my sales man had told me that a couple grand on the credit card would be fine). Let a very sour taste in my mouth and ruined what had been an enjoyable buying experience up to that point.

The real story is that they've been burned by customers contesting charges after they leave plus (I'm assuming) they don't want to pay the 1.5% or so. If they had been upfront about not accepting CC payments (they should post a sign), I would have been fine with it. I really don't like being told a made up story.

The only bright spot was that we were hostile enough to each other in the signing process that the only upsell he tried was extra serial numbers on the glass (I declined).

I've only had the car 1 day and driven it for one commute into the office and back.. I have to go up and over a decent sized hill (Sunol Grade) and it is much more responsive with much more power to spare than my 1.8l Impreza (poor comparison, but that's all I can make easily for now.

I don't like sun roofs and I don't like leather seats, so I wasn't going for the premium package for sure. The security system upgrade was much more expensive than 3rd party systems and the autodimming mirror seemed expensive for what you got.

It would have been nice to have the option of a GPS navigation system, but I'll look into third party systems for that.

Michael

kullenberg

I wouldn't worry too much about p#@sing off the F&I guy - he's there to get in your wallet, nothing more. I generally tell the sales mgr, with whom I deal, to tell the F&I guy to lay off or I will walk! You don't want to adopt him or have him to dinner so "fugedaboudit" More importantly' if the service there is good you're miles ahead - enjoy and congrats. Tell us more about it and post some pics.

Cheers
Pat

lbhaley

I personally feel that having to use premium fuel is a small price to pay for the fantastic performance of the XT. I don't mind paying another $1.20 per fill up (I always used 89 octane in my 98 Forester so the jump to premium is about 10 cents a gallon). I bought my XT for the extra performance and I want it to run the very best it's capable of running. Sure running 87 octane may save a few bucks at the gas pumps but your engine is going to be running less efficiently and may even suffer damage over time from low level detonation. Also your mileage will probably be worse because your engine will be running with retarded timing. Why trade off the brilliant engine performance and risk possible engine damage to save a few bucks? to me that just doesn't make sense.

dcdouglas

Well, after a couple of attempts, my wife finally got some seat time in the XT! Both of us drove the MT and AT back to back (in that order) for a total of four short laps.

Observations:
TRANSMISSION--
Maybe it's just me, but the very large torque band in the XT coupled with the low-end grunt gearing make the MT a more challenging drive. With such an ample and wide powerband (expecially with the 1st and 2nd gearing) low speed control is more work. You have to be much more attentive to what your feet are doing in order to avoid the jerky back and forth results from less than smooth clutch operation. CONCLUSION: If you live in a largely urban area, you should think long and hard about life with an MT with these characteristics.

The AT was simply much easier to drive. Without having to concentrate on perfect execution of clutch and gas, I was able to enjoy the finer qualities of the vehicle. The AT was much more adept than I was at handling the copious power delivery to the four wheels.

FOUR WHEEL DRIVE SYSTEM--
My limited exposure to the AT AWD system is making me think it could be better. (I currently drive a '92 Legacy wagon with the tried and true MT viscous differential AWD setup.) With my history, I'm used to giving my MT engine a little gas in tight corners to engage the AWD system. The AT was engaging even during breaking. I took a sharp right hander at low speed to confirm what was happening. It just felt solid and did not need any active input from the driver standpoint to function properly.

INTERIORS and ETC.
Like everyone else, I'm upset that Subaru doesn't offer leather and the sunroof as stand-alone options. My wife and I are thinking about starting a family soon, so I've been pushing for the leather seats to facilitate juice box cleanups in the back seat. We talked about aftermarket leather seating but realized that the side airbag warranties would be null if we went with aftermarket seats.

I could care less about the sunroof, but it was really nice. The huge opening brought an even airier feeling in the cabin. Driving with the sunroom and side windows fully open was a pleasant experience.

FINAL THOUGHTS
After this latest test drive (my third), my wife and I have decided on a AT Premium. The color's still up in the air, but we're thinking either silver or red. (If it would only come in blue!)

We're working on our financing (any help with suitable vendors would be helpful...juice?). Maurice at Fitzgerald Subaru was quite helpful. He said we could have it in 8-10 weeks. The wait is getting too much!

--dcdouglas

tidester

Refrain from posting the names of salespersons!

Thanks.

tidester, host

ateixeira

you use[d] to be against

True, but a couple of things have happened since then. A 626 lightened my wallet by $2500, and I know a lot more about the issues common to Subies. But most importantly, I didn't even realize the other benefits, such as roadside assistance and guaranteed loaner cars, existed.

Humorous Scenario, bare with me, for fun.

My car stalls with a CEL. I get a hernia (and huge medical bills) pushing it to the shoulder, then a tow truck operator finances his bass boat by towing me to the dealer, who them charges me $92 an hour just to LOOK at my CEL. Next appt is tomorrow PM, so I need a rental for 3 days, another $$$ outlay for a lame automatic Geo Metro. Best-case scenario the actually cash outlay is less than the warranty. Even then, do I feel like a winner? No.

My wife has the same problem the next day. She calls roadside assistance and gets a free tow and ride to the dealer, who offers her a free latte and has a Baja loaner awaiting when she arrives. They realize she's a VIP so they fix her car early in a cancelled time slot, but she's enjoying the Baja so they let her keep it and return it at her convenience.

Sound far-fetched? Nope - she complained about her throttle not being smooth and at her next scheduled oil change that's pretty much what they did. Rolled out the red carpet, loaner waiting, free coffee, same day service. They replaced the entire throttle assembly (overkill, I just asked them to lube it) as a preventative maintenance. They really go the extra mile.

That's not worth it to you, then fine. Hernias aren't so bad! ;-) She sure felt special, though.

Dealers are eager to sell them, but remember something, they make a profit up-front, and then they have a guarantee that Subaru will reimburse them for any service! That's the beauty! They are not reluctant to fix anything. It's not quite cost-no-object, but they sure do aim to please, knowing they're being paid for whatever they do, without having to peeve a loyal customer with big expenses.

So, buy from a wholesaler, the dealer doesn't make that profit, but you still get the red carpet service, and they get paid for the work so to them it's just more good business.

Congrats, Michael.

-juice

corkfish

I'd stay away from low octane gas. I've noticed that mine exhibits an almost imperceptible pinging when you accelerate. You can barely hear it so I almost thought it was just the noise the intake makes when it sucks air in. I'm sticking with 93 octane because I don't want to test to see how much it pings with 87 or 89.

ballistic

dcdouglas comments, "the very large torque band in the XT coupled with the low-end grunt gearing make the MT a more challenging drive. With such an ample and wide powerband (expecially with the 1st and 2nd gearing) low speed control is more work."

I completely concur with your assessment. Had I known ahead of time that the much-more-powerful XT would get ridiculously short 4.44 gearing, leading directly to the driveability issues you cite, I would have either bought the automatic or a 5-speed XS, or would have waited for the next-gen Legacy (which surely will have more sensible gearing). Driving my XT, particularly in traffic, is not the pleasant, relaxed experience I anticipated. Low gear is a joke that is best avoided whenever possible. The 4.44 final drive ratio, together with the huge 77% gap between 1st and 2nd, are both major shortcomings.

jb

ateixeira

Just curious, but can it start in 2nd? Probably too tall...

-juice

p0926

Juice- You are hardly being objective when you combine a fictitious worst-case scenario with a best-case real life scenario (see my previous remarks regarding rationalizations). Even worse, you're indirectly comparing Subaru's reliability to that of a Mazda with troublesome Ford parts! Wouldn't a better measuring stick be how much you've spent for out of warranty repairs on your 98 Forester?

-Frank P.

once_for_all

Could you explain again what you found about the engaging/disengaging of the center diff on turns? What do you mean about the AT AWD engaging on breaking (braking?). How can you tell when it is "off", I thought the MT center diff was "on" all the time but the AT used an electric clutch.

John

ballistic

Juice asks, "Just curious, but can it start in 2nd? Probably too tall..."

2nd is borderline too tall for starting from a standstill on level ground; it can be done, but requires too much clutch slipping. Obviously the same is true on uphill starts. But if my wheels are rolling at all, or if I'm stopped on any degree of downhill slope, I now always start in 2nd.

jb

ateixeira

Frank: the Forester is still under warranty, so I don't know that yet. Also, the 626 started having problems after the 5th year, and past 50k miles, I'm just now reaching that point.

My post above was meant to be humorous, of course. I dramatize the worst case scenario because that's what you are trying to avoid when you buy the piece of mind of the Gold warranty, however unlikely that extreme case may be.

Sorry about comparing them to Ford parts. I'll go in time out now. ;-)

I think a sold argument against one is that Subaru does cover the wheel bearings and the failed gaskets under the powertrain warranty. They're even replacing clutches for Crew members, which is usually a wear and tear item. So the standard 5/60 warranty is pretty long and covers most typical problems.

$2 grand for an Audi extended warranty? See, I wouldn't pay that either. Just keep in mind we're talking about 1/3rd that amount, less when you count not having to pay AAA membership fees.

-juice

tidester

Humorous Scenario, bare with me, for fun.

That is strictly prohibited on the Town Hall boards regardless of the intent! :-)

tidester, host

subewannabe

Right or wrong, my skeptical nature makes me suspect that my local Subaru dealer is a for-profit enterprise. Given that, my likewise sceptical suscpicion is my local Subaru dealer will be a lot more flexible about selling me a much-wanted Forester XT Premium or '05 Legacy GT turbo at invoice (under VIP plan) if I give him /her something to work with, e.g., extended warranty or dealer add-on options. Since both the cars Im looking at come fully- loaded with options from the factory, there's not much the dealer can sell me besides a rubbber cargo mat and/or an extended warranty.
   Depending how much the warranty covers and the price, maybe its a compromise on my fiscal policy I can live with, especially when I can offset some of the monthly $$ by cancelling my AAA membership and/or the towing and rental car coverages on my insurance policy. For further rationalizations, I can add on the anxiety of a first-year model on the turbo 2.5L and spread the cost of the warranty over a few years, finance the car with my local banker on a record-low interest rate home equity loan.
    Without a doubt, extended warranties are money makers for the dealer in EVERY instance, but they are a profit or loss for the underwriting insurer on a case -by-case basis. The underwriter is going to be profitable in the big picture, but just think how much they lost on the first generation Ford Taurus! Maybe it is like betting against yourself, and your car, but you can do a lot worse in Las Vegas!
Mark

lbhaley

Come on guys, it's really not that hard to drive the XT MT smoothly. Just get it rolling in 1st (very easy to do with the low gearing) and shift to 2nd at about 15-20 mph. From there just drive it like any other five speed standard. I don't find my new XT any harder to drive smoothly in traffic than my old 98 Forester S. The only time the low gearing and gap between 1st and 2nd causes problems is when you really wind it up in 1st. Then I admit it's almost impossible to get a smooth shift, but oh boy is it fun!

ateixeira

WHOOPS! Bear with my grammar! )

Mark: I agree. What people don't consider some times is that it is Subaru that is really selling you the warranty. The Dealer is just a broker that makes a commission on the sale.

For the dealer, it's win-win. They make money, then they have a guarantee that repairs will be paid for (by Subaru) and that the customer will be happy (with no-charge repairs).

For Subaru, it depends. Reliable brands probably do make a little money (not much left after $700 minus what they pay to the Roadside Assistance service, which is outsourced), but even if they just break even it establishes good will with the customer.

I have a friend that works for a Ford dealer as a mechanic and he urges other friends to get them, it's just much easier to get things covered and they often pay off.

I should ask Jake what he thinks, he's a Subaru mechanic now. That would be an interesting perspective.

-juice

once_for_all

as Juice has reminded us before, let's not forget the extended warranty helps sell the car during its period of coverage. It might easily get a few hundred dollars more to the buyer that wants peace of mind on a used car transaction. On a 7/70k, selling the car at 6/60 k gives the buyer several months of security, which ought to be worth a few hundred dollars to him/her.

John

ballistic

ibhaley opines, "Come on guys, it's really not that hard to drive the XT MT smoothly. Just get it rolling in 1st (very easy to do with the low gearing) and shift to 2nd at about 15-20 mph."

20mph in 1st gear requires nearly 4,000 rpm! That is FAR above what I'd consider to be a reasonable shift point when merely moving along with normal traffic away from an intersection. On the other hand, if you upshift much sooner, the car behind you practically rear-ends you because nobody expects a car to pause so soon after moving off.

My opinion: First gear is simply too low. WAY too low.

Then there's the huge jump to 2nd, with a very large rev drop to accomodate. Is it possible to make the 1-2 upshift smoothly? Of course. Does it demand more concentration than it should, thanks to the extremely low 1st and the big gap to 2nd? In my opinion, yes - moreso than any of the dozens of other manual transmission vehicles I've ever driven going all the way back to 1959.

It is so pointless. I seriously doubt my XT will ever see full throttle in 1st gear, which would demand an almost-immediate upshift less than 1.5 seconds later to avoid over-revving.

jb

cptplt

others on other threads have been bored to death with my ext warranty experience but for those who haven't, the following points may be of interest

get an ext warranty for a car with a lousy reliability record - have made money on my wifes Chevy Venture after 40K!(Who said GM was better these days???)

it is indeed all pure luck -
had a ext warranty on my in laws 02 Legacy which she hardly drove, needless to say everything went wrong after the ext warranty finished!
however, having paid out big bucks on my own 92 Legacy (stupid pneumatic suspension system) I got an ext warranty on my 98, I have broken even after 5 years and about 3/4 of that was for non drivetrain stuff - primarily a/c.

my local dealer has also done work which is not covered by the ext warranty as good will when they have done other work which was covered, while some of this is strictly OCD stuff which many would never pay to get fixed (burned out light bulbs on some HVAC controls), others have been more useful - replace timing belt when fixing cam seal leak by charging SOA for "damaged timing belt from leaking oil"!)

never pay full price. I think at least 30% off minimum and I know people who have managed close to 50% off "MSRP"

enough on ext warranty, I probably know the first person to have a crash in an XT! Someone at work hit someone who ran a red light at 45, his front hit the rear wheel well of the guys van. He's ok but the front of the XT is gone. Surprisingly, no airbags went off.Had 900 miles only !

lbhaley

Maybe 20 mph is too high. I was just guessing sitting at my desk. I just shift when it feels right. I doubt that anyone driving behind me even knows I shifted unless they were watching very closely. I do agree that 1st is too low and you need to be aware of that fact if you floor it in 1st. You have to be quick, but it is very possible to shift just before red line if you are expecting the quick wind up. The rev limiter should save you if you don't shift soon enough.

ateixeira

That really stinks. I hope the other guy has good insurance.

BTW, I agree about the goodwill and the little stuff you'd not even bother to fix without the warranty.

We're having that recall done on the Legacy. No problem getting a loaner, they even promised a nicer than average one (last time we got a base Lancer) when I mentioned the wife was a Subaru Gold customer. I'll let you know how it goes.

-juice

ballistic

ibhaley says, "I just shift when it feels right. I doubt that anyone driving behind me even knows "

The thing is this: Say you do wind it up to 20, or even only 15, starting off in traffic. When you shift to 2nd, you have two choices: Given that 2nd is a long jump from the too-low 1st, you either wait for the revs to drop all the way down until they match roadspeed in 2nd before letting out the clutch (to get a smooth, lurch-free upshift) - or else you let the clutch out sooner even though the revs don't yet match - giving a lurch that's anything but smooth. I dislike the latter, but the former requires a longish 'pause' in your acceleration. That's what makes the car behind you climb onto your bumper, because he's not expecting your acceleration away from the stoplight to pause so quickly, at such a low speed.

I contend that a car with the XT's potent low-end and midrange torque and flexibility ought to redline in 1st gear at 40mph or so, not a paltry 33.

jb

dcdouglas

Tidester,
Sorry about the Dealer reference. I've been lurking here too long to make that kind of mistake!

John (Once_for_all),
All MT Subarus need power for their AWD systems to engage. If you're taking a sharp corner at higher speed, you will need to have your foot on the gas during the turn to engage the AWD. (Read: break before the curve + acceleration in the curve = AWD and marvelous traction.) Otherwise, it behaves like a normal car would without AWD.

With a MT Subaru it is very difficult to brake while also trying to engage the clutch and accelerate if you've just downshifted to take a tight curve.

The AT subaru does not have that apparent problem. I took a hard sharp right while braking--the AWD felt like it engaged.

--dcdouglas

ace1000

How about this for a compromise? Using regular instead of premium gas saves about 1 cent per mile, or $1,000 after 100,000 miles. That pays for an extended warranty, and you will probably never miss what may be only a 5 hp decline in performance. Using regular gas does not void the warranty if the owners manual says that regular gas can be used. If the regular gas damages the engine, the warranty will pay to fix it, and you get all of the additional benefits of the warranty.

I have bought 8 new cars between 1987 and 2000, and on the five we kept, we never needed a repair after the factory warranty ended that would have justified an extended warranty. We got rid of two of the cars after a couple of years because we discovered we didn't like them, and an extended warranty would not have affected the value on these because we sold them at a bargain price to relatives who could use the cars. The last one that I bought in 2000 got totaled, so an extended warranty would have been worthless if I had bought one before the accident.

I bought only one extended warranty, and never needed it during 8 years and 80,000 miles. Our 1995 Volvo has 146,000 miles and has needed only a few minor repairs. The other three had 60,000 to 100,000 miles on them before we got rid of them.

In my case I have saved a pile of money by not buying the extended warranties. As cptplt recommends, I would buy one only on a car that has a history of problems. But if you feel you need one on an XT, pay for it with the savings from using regular gas if using regular gas does not void the warranty.

once_for_all

I thought the MT center diff was entirely independent of braking, accelerating, turning, etc. It just allows slip when it has too.

The AT center diff I don't fully understand--it being electric on-off, partial on, full on, etc., a lot more complicated. Either tranny though, aren't they truly AWD? The Honda Element, and others, they are the ones that only engage when needed.

John

kullenberg

I was re-reading the XT test, in the "reading room", for about the third time, and it occurred to me to thumb back to the Cayenne test again. It's been touted all over these forums that the little Forester XT is only .3 sec slower to 60 than the Cayenne. Has anybody noticed that it whips a#s to 30, 40, & 50mph. That's amazing! And to think you've saved 60 large!
Cheers
Pat

ballistic

Pat's observation reminds me of yet another XT advantage: Unlike with a Porsche, you don't have to argue with anyone about how to correctly pronounce the name of the car you drive!

Widespread mis-usage notwithstanding, Porsche is not a one-syllable word!

On the other hand, we do now and then have to gently point out that it's 'Forester' - not 'FoRRester'.

jb

subewannabe

Maybe the best that can be said of the observations on the MT shift excitement in the XT as well as the gnashing of teeth over the final drive ratio will be that Subaru puts a sensible 6 speed MT in the next generation XT, which will maintain the excellent acceleration down low, make for smoother upshifts, and give better gas milage overall, esp on the interstate. Send those emails to FHI and SoA!
Mark

tidester

Since we're picking nits, the word misusage is not hyphenated - or is that high-fen-eighted??! ;-)

tidester, host

ace1000

The C/D figures illustrate the gap between the 1st and 2nd gear ratios. The 0-30 time of 1.3 seconds is .2 of a second faster than that of the Enzo Ferrari tested the previous month. However, it takes another 1.3 seconds to get to 40, which is a big loss of momentum. A more typical increase between 30 to 40 would be .8 to 1 second.

It would be interesting to see the acceleration times for the AT. Its 0-40 time may be very close to or even better than that of the MT.

lbhaley

Driving to work this morning I was very aware of my shift points and the smoothness of the 1st to 2nd shifts. It turns out I do take it to about 20 mph in 1st and that is about 4000 rpm. Even under gentle acceleration the engine revs so effortlessly and smoothly I didn't realize the rpms were that high. A nice gentle shift to 2nd produces a smooth, lurch free transition. I know that some cars shift smoother than others even within the same year and model. Our 2000 Passat is a good example. It is very difficult to shift smoothly. The demo we drove before buying it shifted very smoothly. My XT is very smooth in all areas of operation. Others may not be.

ateixeira

FWIW, if your car is totalled, you get a pro-rated refund on the extended warranty. So if it's totalled before the standard 3/36 warranty, for instance, you get a *full* refund.

So the XT is quicker than the Cayenne all the way to 50mph? LOL! By then you could say you were laughing so hard, you lost your concentration. Or that you let the poor wittle Porsche turbo pass you out of pity! ;-)

Quicker than an Enzo to 30mph? Oh, the beauty of AWD! :-)

-juice

PS We got a free upgrade on our loaner, Frank, told ya so. Though it's a Ford Windstar, I wonder if that's really an upgrade, LOL!

mgpotter

I would never buy one. If the car needs one, I shouldn't have bought the car. The dealers make a good profit on the warranty which means the insurance company gets much less than the premium. In the vast majority of cases, the insurance company makes money off of the warranty.

I'd rather just make sure I had a "rainy day" fund at all times in case a repair does come up. Mind you, I'm also the type that kept my Impreza for 10 years and saved enough money that I paid cash for the XT I just bought.

Plus I'm a Chartered Accountant (Canadian CPA title, I live in the US now), so I crunched the numbers and compared by repair bills on my Impreza and my wife's Outback ('97) to the cost of the warranties and I came out way ahead by not buying the warranties.

Michael

ps - I filled the tank up for the first time yesterday. About 240 miles with a little less than a quarter tank showing on the gauge. I had a business golf outing at the Olympic Club golf course just sounth of SF (the course was very nice but wasted on me because I'm a horrible golfer) and I appreciated the acceleration to get around in the onramp and feeder highway traffic.

ateixeira

The rainy day fund idea would work better if you could pool the money among 5-6 family members, maybe.

The thing is, big repair bills can hit $2-3 grand easily nowadays, for a rebuilt tranny or something like that.

-juice

PS My rainy day fund also let us pay cash for our Legacy, in fact it paid for the extended warranty too, LOL

stoner420

With a MT Subaru it is very difficult to brake while also trying to engage the clutch and accelerate if you've just downshifted to take a tight curve.

Heel-and-toe, baby! Not so hard once you get the hang of it. WHEE! ;-)

subewannabe

We've got XT envy, Porsche pity and Ferrari funnies. Where else can you have so much emotional investment in a car ??

kullenberg

Juice: I'm giving some thought to getting the ext war. when I purchase an XT, next spring, but only if I can get the cost down. What did you have to pay for yours (e-mail me a reply -see profile)? TIA
Cheers
Pat

p0926

Don't forget, as has been pointed out previously, you don't have to buy an extended warranty when you get your vehicle. You can buy one at any time during the 3/36 factory B-to-B warranty period. And by waiting, you can at least keep that money working for you for up to 3 years. Which reminds me, for those individuals who role the cost of the warranty into their car note, the actual cost becomes considerably higher when interest is included.

-Frank P.

samlater

I'm looking to purchase a Forester XT 5-speed. What do you folks think is a fair value for a trade in on a 96 legacy L wagon 5-speed with 57k miles and immaculate condition in and out? I think the dealer is trying to rip me off with a $4000 trade-in. All advice appreciated.
Thanks.

p0926

Well to be honest, fair market value is whatever you can sell it for. Naturally what the dealer's willing to pay is always going to be on the low side. If you feel it's worth a lot more than $4k, I recommend you try and sell it to a private party. You've got nothing to lose.

-Frank P.

lfdal

I stopped by the dealer tonight to pick up a cabin air filter for he wife's Outback, and let the silver tongued devil talk me into taking a XT automatic for a test drive.(Okay he didn't have to try too hard....) Really wanted to keep going, felt like I could outrun about anything :<).

The dealer understood I'm not buying any lot demo car before I drove it off the lot. I had a very reasonable test drive with moderate acceleration and never pushed the tach too high. Still felt like i got enough out of the test drive to appreciate the XT's engine.

Doing my pricing homework over the next few days and with luck will be able to hammer out a deal. If not, I'll wait, the price will become more negotiable after the novelty wears off.

As I enter the price /package negotiations I was wondering how folks feel about the 3M clear protectent. It's not cheap, but I can't use a hood deflector with the air scoop.....

Thanks in advance...
Larry

hypov

Larry-
If properly and well applied, it is worth the dollar spent.
Not that inconspicous over dark colors though.

-Dave