Subaru XT Turbo Forester

corkfish

Yep. I bought in CT. The dealerships seem to have more of a non-negotiable attitude and I just don't trust them. Fortunately for Subaru, I was so taken with the XT I didn't care.

njswamplands

just bought a xt premium tonight, check out the prices paid area that our fine host setup for details.

stever

Here's the link:

njswamplands "Subaru Forester: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" Jul 28, 2003 9:40pm

Steve, Host

njswamplands

stever

Right click on the post number, copy shortcut, return to the discussion you want to be in, and paste :-)

Steve, Host

jlemole

Congratulations on your new XT! Do give us a detailed report after some time behind the wheel.

Jon

ateixeira

Liberty has great parts prices too, sounds good.

Congrats.

-juice

onemoremile

I am a Subey sales guy and can say that the edmunds invoice price is correct and matches my price list exactly. remember that you need to look at an invoice price that includes destination. Buying a car at invoice forces the dealership to sell more cars at higher markups to make up for that 0 profit unit. Dealerships are businesses and need a little profit to keep the lights on. They are in the busuiness of selling cars and will do what they can to get the deal when you are in the showroom. You only have power to dicker until you leave the showroom.

once_for_all

For what it's worth, kudos to you for balancing sales and profit. My local Subie dealer probably didn't give me the best price in the whole USA, but he was transparent and up front about it being a business and I respect him for it. I think that we have all accomplished our goal when both the customer and the salemsan can walk away satisfied.

John

mcscully731

My Java Black Pearl XT auto-premium is here. Had a somewhat trying sales experience...but now I'm pumped! I have to wait until 5 p.m. today (CST) to pick it up Grrrrr. I have a feeling driving this car is going to take some getting used to - especially since my first (and only) car was a 96 Tercel. Come ON, clock!!! Move faster!!

ateixeira

I won't break your heart and tell you that the firts 1000 miles (break-in) will take even longer.

Oops, I just did! ;-)

-juice (still suffering from XT envy, enacting a little revenge)

ballistic

"Come ON, clock!!! Move faster!!"

I can identify with that! My XT arrived at my dealer on the transporter on Friday afternoon June 20 - too late to prep it for delivery. I had to go through an entire weekend without it - and even then I had to wait until 5 p.m. Monday after work before I could finally go get it.

njswamplands

njswamplands

ateixeira

Now is the time for a pre-delivery check list. If you don't keep busy you'll go insane anyway, LOL.

When you take delivery, try not to salivate, first of all. It messes up the fabric. ;-)

Seriously, though, look around from every angle. Walk around the outside twice, looking for dings, scratches, flaws, paint runs, or orange peel.

Take a tire pressure gauge because they forget to air down 90% of the time.

Pop the hood and check the fluids, all marked in yellow so it's easy. Take a rag with you.

Inside, sit in every seat position. Fold the seats, make sure everything works properly. Open all windows and the moonroof (if you're lucky enough to have one). Make sure they all open and close smoothly and seal properly.

Try every accessory to see if they work, the A/C, the radio, a CD (again, bring one). Check the Monroney (window sticker) and verify that all options on there are on your car.

Only then, go for a test drive. Drive your actual car, make sure everything works smoothly. I do not recommend driving it hard, though, the brake pads are not seated properly and the engine is very green, so take it easy, just make sure it runs smoothly.

If not - bring it to my house, I'll swap with you. My '98 is in great shape. I even have a moonroof and a 6CD. Wait...come back! It even has 16" rims! ;-)

-juice

kullenberg

Juice: That's a pretty good checklist. I would add that any new owner should have some sort of acceptance checklist written out, and go thru it meticulously, BEFORE YOU SIGN FOR THE CAR!!!. Dealers, no matter how honest or well meaning would much rather promise to fix everything later, under warranty, than now, before delivery. And it may be that some things have to get fixed that way, but get it in writting, even in the form of a deferred work order, if you have to.
Cheers
Pat

ateixeira

Watch. He'll walk in, pay, then run to it salivating, forget to check even the tire pressure. LOL!

It's like a kid in a candy store...

-juice

kullenberg

Another thing - never take delivery on a car at nite, for that matter don't buy at nite - they look much different ( read better) under the brite lights of the dealer's lot, than in daylight. Also, be mentally prepared to not take delivery that day, because of things that need fixing, which means, come with a ride home!
Cheer
Pat

lark6

Congrats and please keep us posted on the new purchase. I'm considering an XT as my next car and I could option it very similarly to yours. I haven't convinced myself I need leather and a moonroof, though.

Ed

fryingbologna

As an owner of a 2003 Honda Accord EX-V6, I check out the (voluminous) Accord discussions, and someone over there just slagged C & D for the inaccuracies... using the Forester XT numbers! I had to post that the XT would waste both a V6 Altima and a V6 Accord (that's the discussion topic), but I know they won't take kindly to it.

I know its not Halloween yet, but you might want to put on your troll masks...

subewannabe

The last car I bought was a 2001 Mitsu Eclipse Spyder Gt , used, with just over 3500 miles on the odo. The dealer told me to take it home over the weekend and see if I liked it...I was on a business trip and live over 140 miles away from that dealer! I put just under 400 miles on my test drive...and I did not commit to buy the car..until 2 weeks later. It showed that the dealer put a lot of confidence in both the car and his staff for checking out the car. It turned out to be my best car purchase experience ever...until my kids outgrew that tiny back seat.
     Drive that new car! Would you marry a woman you had not spent any time with?
Mark

ateixeira

Thanks for the heads up about the Accord thread, but I'm in no mood for troll bait.

Mark: mail-order bride? LOL

-juice

subkid

subewannabe says:
>>>>
Drive that new car! Would you marry a woman you had not spent any time with?
>>>>

Why not, if everybody else says she is great. That many people can't be wrong. ))

subewannabe

Does this means anything more than 3 miles on the odo of my new subie means Ive gotten myself a "slut"? That could be my vanity license plate, "TURBO SLUT"

jb, my kids still fight over who gets to ride in "the way-back", dog smells and dog barrier notwithstanding!
Mark

ateixeira

No, I think 12-13 miles are normal.

200 is not. That would be the one that went around the block a few too many times. ;-)

-juice

njswamplands

sales dude agrees with juice on the 12-13 normal mileage.

ballistic

"sales dude agrees with juice on the 12-13 normal mileage."

I didn't want any leadfoots screwing upu my XT before I got it. So, I required my dealer to commit in writing that no one would drive mine any more or any farther than absolutely necessary to prepare it for delivery.

I inspected it as they rolled it off the transporter; it had 2.2 miles. When I arrived the following Monday to take possession, it had 2.6.

prisc

Hi folks!

I took a MT 2004 XT out for a test drives a few weeks ago. I thought it was a great car and was lots of fun to drive. I did have the following reservations:

1) Since this is a new engine it might need a few minor tweaks. Perhaps waiting for the 2005 (or the 2004.5 if there is such an animal) might be a wise thing to do.

2) I didn't like the fact that a moonroof was not available with a 5spd. Another reason why waiting might be worth while.

3) Orderall gas mileage seemed a bit low. I live in the Washington DC area so AWD is not really necessary. I like the way the subies drive/handle thought...

I was hoping to get some typical mpg from recent ownerss. Please share your resulting mpg data if available.

Thanks :-)

ateixeira

Jack: could they even get to the gas station? LOL

Jack (the new one): I'm in DC too, keep in mind how much snow we got last year! AWD is one of those "nice to have" things all the time, too. It's more fun, less understeer, more neutral handling, more available traction all the time.

Heated mirrors in the rain keep them totally clear, did you know that? Heated seats are nice 9 months out of the year. Wiper de-icers front and rear mean no more scraping windows. Outside temp guage, weather band, the XT just plain rocks in cold weather.

Trivia: did you know that DC has more days where the temp goes below freezing than it does over 90 degrees?!

Go for the XT, I'll be envious if you do. Real-world mpg has been mostly better than the EPA estimates, this on green cars that are not fully broken in yet. Subies tend to improve with time.

-juice

tidester

Trivia: did you know that DC has more days where the temp goes below freezing than it does over 90 degrees?!

I am skeptical! But then the effects of 150%relative humidity may be influencing my recollections! :-)

tidester, host

kens

prisc brings up a good question -- any MPG updates from XT owners?

Please let us know your tranny type and driving type (city/highway).

Ken

ballistic

prisc asks, "I was hoping to get some typical mpg from recent ownerss. Please share your resulting mpg data if available."

My 5-speed XT is 5.5 weeks old and has not quite 1,100 miles. I believe in long, gentle break-ins, so even now I'm still driving more circumspectly than most XT buyers did when their cars were brand new. Also, my daily driving is about 2/3 freeway and 1/3 suburban, with hardly any city driving.

First tankful: Only 19.9 mpg, and nobody could have driven my XT any more lightly.

Second tankful: About 22.2, and this tank included a pure-freeway 100 mile trip at no more than 60-65mph.

Third tankful: Back down to barely 20mpg.

Fourth tankful: About 22 again, and this tank included a 180 mile highway trip to/from the Oregon coast.

Overall average so far is only 21 mpg. Considering my mostly-freeway daily commute and the almost-economy-run way I've been driving during break-in, I regard the gas mileage to be rather poor. And, it requires the costliest premium-grade fuel.

Much of the blame for this high cost-per-mile goes to Subaru's ridiculous decision to put drag-strip 4.44 gearing in the XT. The regular Forester's 4.11 would have been better, and the WRX's 3.9 would have been best of all.

jb

subewannabe

subaru has put that low end gearing and got amazing acceleration numbers. its going to be hard for them in the current performance-oriented market to back off the low end gearing in order to create better gas milage. their only realistic option is to put in a six speed MT for '05 to cover their tracks while they retool the final drive ratio to something more in line with the everyday use of the car.

ballistic

I don't know what SOA would have to charge for a 6-speed option on the XT, but if its top gear provided 20 to 30% taller gearing than my 5th gear, that would improve the car enormously. If, in addition, the huge 77% gap between 1st and 2nd decreased to 60% or so, the XT would be about as close to perfection as a car can get.

Unfortunately, trading my '04 to get a 6-speed '05 will be out of the question.

chassol

Thought folks here might like to be aware of this article.

Even mentions Subaru............

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-07-30-premiumgas_x.htm

Any SOA employee reading this who would like to comment, please do so.

rsholland

Now why would any carmaker suggest the higher priced premium over regular? Do you honestly think the "aura" of premium gas (over regular) is a selling point? I think not.

Sure, on some cars you can run regular gas, but you will lose some power. Honda states very clearly on their vehicles that they "recommend" using premium gas.

Bob

ballistic

I still plan to try 89-octane in my XT, and depending on that outcome, I'll probably try 87 too.

subewannabe

The USA article assumes current engine technology. A ten year old vehicle without knock sensors cannot compensate for high load conditions. For example, I run regular 86 or 87 octane in my 94 Explorer when Im going to be in the "flat lands" or the only occupant, 89 octane when I know Im running up and down the mountain grades with a full vehicle. Otherwise, I knock all the way up the grade, which is not good at all.
  I try to be vigilant on my travels about the best prices on "good" brands of gas . It is amazing how you can have 5 to 10 cent per gallon variations within a few blocks. I almost never fill up along the interstate or in the high income neighborhoods, where prices are highest. On my trip to Michigan and back last week, I never paid more than $1.49 for 89 octane, and even found $1.39 just north of Ft. Wayne, Indiana! I never knocked in the mountains, even climbing up to Flat Top, West Virginia, 3200 feet above sea level, and got 23.3 mpg for the total trip in an Explorer with four people, luggage and the Lab...approx 900 lbs.
  I have found that the best places for affordable, clean gas also tend to have the freshest coffee and best fried chicken, so it all works out. When I get my turbo Subie, Ill know where to fill it up.
Mark

kens

I seriously doubt Subaru would offer the 6-speed transmission on the XT anytime before you saw it as an option on the WRX.

Couldn't they help the MPG issue a bit by spacing out 4th and 5th gears? It would keep the 0-60 performance the same and provide better highway numbers.

Let's not forget that the current ratios were to minimize turbo lag, not to create a dragstrip monster.

Ken

ballistic

Ken,

If Subaru offered variable valve timing, semi-closed-deck block, forged internals, sodium-cooled exhaust valves, and electronic throttle control on the XT before any of those are on the WRX, I'd think doing likewise with the 6-speed might be at least a possibility...

As for widening the step from 4th to 5th, that of course would be possible. In fact, the regular Forester's 5th is nearly 40% higher than 4th, whereas on the XT (and WRX) the increase is only about 32%. On the other end, the regular Forester's 2nd gear is a manageable 67.5% higher than 1st; on the XT, 2nd is a huge 77.4% taller than 1st. In my opinion, the standard Forester's transmission ratios (and 4.11 axle) are clearly superior in every respect to what Subaru inexplicably chose for the XT.

rsholland

The WRX needs the 6-speed more than the XT, both from a function and image standpoint. I'd rather see the XT just get the 3.90:1 final drive for the 5-speed.

Bob

ballistic

The WRX and XT would both benefit if the 6-speed was offered as an extra-cost option for those who would appreciate it.

The 3.9 final drive, though, ought to be standard regardless.

kens

Is any of this getting to the Subaru suggestions forum?

Ken

rsholland

ateixeira

I would not say "only" 21mpg. Vue Redline won't match that.

I don't expect much technical accuracy from USAT. Read this:

The only modern engines that should really need premium are those with superchargers, which force-feed fuel into the cylinders

Duh? Turbos don't? Most 7 year olds know that. Who wrote that article? A 4 year old?

Tuning an engine is a science. Subaru surely tuned the XT conservatively. Not so with the STi, and boom - it had detonation issues early on even with premium fuel (since addressed). So if you chip your engine or adjust the boost at all, the engine needs higher octane.

-juice

fryingbologna

Duh? Turbos don't? Most 7 year olds know that. Who wrote that article? A 4 year old?

You mean in dog years, right? I hope so, because if so, there's still hope for me!

This will probably be the BIG sticking point for me getting the XT over the XS during spousal negotiations. If I can say that y'all said regular or mid-grade will make no difference to the longevity of the engine or service required, I should be in like Flynn.

ace1000

ConsumerGuide's review of the 2004 Forester, including the XT, is at:

http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/- - 37615.htm

There are some errors, for example, showing the XT "w/Prem. Pkg., leather, man." when the acceleration score of 6 is probably based on the automatic. The total score of 55 is best in its class for the 2004 models so far, which doesn't include the ones rated Best Buys. The 2003 CR-V scores were 61 to 62.

It makes the comment under acceleration that "Automatics tend to upshift prematurely and hesitate in downshifting." Has this been people's experience with the XT AT?

stever

Chat goes live in less than 30 minutes. The link is all over the page!

Steve, Host

dcm61

My '89 Subaru GL-10 1.8L Turbo recommended 87 octane. Of course it only had 115hp and 134lb/ft.

DaveM

krccrk

So far 23.2, 23.8, and 25.8 mpg for my 5-speed.

-Mostly 40-50 mph
-1/3 to 1/2 is mountain or canyon driving
-altitudes 5000-10000 ft.