Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options

Subaru XT Turbo Forester

1…1112141617…131

Comments

  • Options
    tmstevietmstevie Member Posts: 30
    Hello all... I'm new here. I've really enjoyed reading your posts & views. I bought my MT XT about 2 weeks ago (in spite of being unable to get the sunroof w/the MT). I began researching this car about 6 months ago when the local dealer told me about it. I said I liked the Forester-but- "needed" more power. I vowed never to own another 4 cylinder. Well, the turbo has cured that! I've test driven everything in & around its class (as long as stick was an option). For the money, given the AWD, raw power, and nicely appointed interior & decent exterior design, this car is -so far- well worth the $24K price.
  • Options
    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Wow, I didn't realize the CR-V was geared so short. I guess it really depends on what you're used to. My 98 Forester turns 3000RPM@70mph and 3250RPM@80MPH so I'm pretty used to not having a "relaxed" engine. ;-)

    But I still think outright acceleration was not the primary motive for Subaru's gearing selection on the XT. They could have kept it in the 6 second range and still have gotten positive reviews.

    I wonder if Patti could ask a product planner about the XT 5-speed -- what do you think, juice?

    samlater -- 34/32 works very well for me on my 98 Forester S. You could probably lower the front to about 32 and the rear even more if you wanted. I believe the door jamb sticker on my vehicle says 29/26 for a light load. I tried that once for grins and found that handling was comprimised.

    Ken
  • Options
    njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    a/c on about ½ the time
  • Options
    fargfamfargfam Member Posts: 30
    Just curious if anyone would like to share their top speeds with their new XT? I, with my new AT XS, reached about 90-95 mph the other day. I felt like I could've pushed it a little more if I wasn't such a chicken. Have I started something ugly here?
  • Options
    tmstevietmstevie Member Posts: 30
    In keeping w/the MPG discussions, I have to say I haven't tried to max out speed on this car. As it is, I swear I can watch the gas meter drop as I drive along the back roads in my part of the world. I don't care. It's been worth it. It's part of the trade off I expected when I made the decision to buy the XT.
  • Options
    lbhaleylbhaley Member Posts: 91
    I just read the new STI vs Evo review on Edmunds. The 0-60 and quarter mile times for BOTH of them were slower than the Car & Driver Forester XT times (by a lot 5.8 and 14.2). I wonder what gives with that.
  • Options
    pleiad7pleiad7 Member Posts: 59
    fargfam - I don't have my XT yet, but as far as I know, top speed is governor limited to 107 mph on the X/XS and 139 mph on the XT. I can only imagine what "maxing out" for extended periods of time would do to a Forester's gas mileage... the husband and I were returning from Los Angeles to the Bay Area a few months ago and hubby kept the MY00 Outback Sport cruising at 90-100 mph for about one third of the way (until I suspended him from any further driving privileges for the remainder of trip...). Needless to say, on this drive we averaged our worst gas mileage ever in the OBS - a whopping 16 mpg!!!
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ken: try my Miata for a day, then you'll see how relaxed the Forester is. At 70mph, it's like a bee hive. I've never even tried 80.

    Any how, I'll ask Patti to look into their decision to use a shorter final drive on the XT.

    As for 0-60 comparison, you have to stick with the same publication, because they use different methods with varying levels of clutch abuse, LOL.

    Silke: time to update your profile, it says you're still shopping! :-)

    Also, I'd like to invite all the new owners to the chat on Thursday night.

    -juice
  • Options
    pleiad7pleiad7 Member Posts: 59
    juice - I AM still shopping :-(
    This is turning out to be quite the frustrating buying experience... My dealer has been trying for about 6 weeks now to locate a silver auto XT for me, with no luck... I even decided to ditch the premium package in order to increase my chances of snatching one up. I guess it's not helping the sales guy's motivation that I'm paying invoice under the VIP program...
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, if they even accept that, I think you would have gotten the best deal so far. Hang in there, be patient, it'll pay off (literally).

    -juice
  • Options
    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    pleiad7: It's too bad you don't live on this side of the country. I test drove a silver auto XT without premium package last Saturday. There's got to be one closer than 3,000 miles from you.

    Ed
  • Options
    pleiad7pleiad7 Member Posts: 59
    I believe there is at least one other person on NASIOC who has bought theirs at invoice also. My dealer agreed on selling to me at that price, but mentioned that it may test the limits of my patience. He's right on that one, I think I need some of your envy meds soon!
  • Options
    pleiad7pleiad7 Member Posts: 59
    lark6 - as of yesterday my dealer found nine silver XT's within a day's drive and tried to arrange a dealer trade. Eight of them were sold, and one suffered lot damage. Back to the waiting game... sigh.
  • Options
    erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    maybe I can trade my Miata for your XT :-)

    The Miata gets better gas mileage, but then again the revs at 70+ are just a bit higher than the XT.
  • Options
    tmstevietmstevie Member Posts: 30
    It seems my message posted a 2nd time- sorry about that. I think it might have happened when I "timed out" and then logged back on.

    As for finding a silver XT- I know exactly what you mean. The MTs are even harder to find. I grabbed the first one I found (after a test drive & 2 day cooling off period).
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    If you refresh your browser after posting without going elsewhere in Town Hall first, your message will get reposted. It's a feature of our software.

    You can delete your own posts at any time with the delete button by your message title. The hosts try to clear duplicates out too when we see them.

    Steve, Host
  • Options
    tmstevietmstevie Member Posts: 30
    Oops- I did it again. I'm refreshing to get to the end of the thread. I'm really sorry. How do I get to the end w/out using refresh?
  • Options
    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    How do I get to the end w/out using refresh?

    Click the "Recent messages" link at the bottom of the posts.

    tidester, host
  • Options
    jason_elsjason_els Member Posts: 57
    Any of you mechanically-inclined out there care to describe just what is necessary to drop the final drive to 4.11 or 3.91? Would it really be so much?

    I have to say I'm somewhat concerned about the super-high final drive ratio; enough to postpone getting a XT. I've waited a year for the XT and now I'm thinking maybe I should wait yet another to see what happens with it. If nothing happens then search for something else.

    I can't fathom what is going on with this drivetrain. It doesn't make a bit of sense. Subaru has always been weird, we all know that, but this doesn't sound like a car I would want to drive day in and day out. I'd much prefer the manual but even the auto seems too short and the milage is just horrendous for a car of that weight and size (yes I know it's not terribly aerodynamic either).

    I loved the auto XT I test drove but didn't pay a bit of attention to the tach. The traffic was just too heavy to look away considering the speed I was going (ahem).

    Would dumping a WRX or STi tranny do anything?

    Just wondering here...
  • Options
    pinngpinng Member Posts: 10
    Silke,
       Have you thought about ordering one from Subaru? I did that in late June with the ACA VIP program and my dealer called me today telling me that mine was already on the track and should arrive in two weeks. I hope that's true.
       I must say I'm getting rather concerned about the 1st to 2nd gear gap, the final drive ratio and the mpg issues. I guess I'll find out if they really matter that much to me SOON hopefully.

    Pin
  • Options
    lbhaleylbhaley Member Posts: 91
    jason_els, I would suggest that you drive a MT XT and make your own decision. I think this gearing thing has been blown WAY out of proportion. My MT XT is a wonderful daily driver. It is smooth, quiet and shifts great. I had a 98 Forester before which also had a large gap between 1st and 2nd so I hardly noticed the difference with the MT. I can see how reading these posts could give you the idea that the the MT XT is a foul shifting beast. Nothing could be further from the truth. The first thing I noticed when I took delivery of my XT was how smooth it was and how nice it shifted compared to my 98. The only time the gap is noticeable to me is under very hard acceleration. In every day driving I honestly don't even think about it. Would the XT be even better with different gearing? Probably. Is it a reason for not buying an XT? From my perspective, definitely NOT!
  • Options
    nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    A couple of years ago we were on a 1000 mile trip driving overnight and my wife fell asleep. I drove her 2k OB Ltd at about 100mph with a full tank for 2 hours straight across the mid-west. IT DRAINED THE TANK in 2 hours!!!! 206miles/13.0 galons = 15.8mpg. Ouch.

    Give me a well broken in STi with new clutch for a couple of hours and I'll probably get you in the low 5s if I dont have to pay for any damage I do :)

    There are 3 basic ways to launch high hp cars:
    1) Low RPM, feather the clutch, wait for it to grab, and then hammer it. This is no different than gently working a manual transmission. Usually your times will be 0.5 to 1 full second slower than the the other 2 ways in an AWD turbo 4 car. I get my best times in RWD V8 cars using "normal" driving launches.
    2) High RPM (3k-5k), drop the clutch, pray. This usually works very well with AWD that are turbo charged. This results in varopized tires if you try it in a Mustang or related RWD muscle car. It worked best in my old VR-4 at 3500rpm. Brings you boost way up so you are at max hp (and usually torque) and takes you to the edge of AWD traction. The major problem with this is that you are exposing your clutch and transmission to max torque all at once. As you can image its not so good for the life of your clutch. In the WRX I can get the tires to chirp and actually break traction with a 4k rpm launch. Getting low 6s is pretty easy and only measures your willingness to tolerate clutch replacement not really driving skill. I imagine its even more fun in an STI.
    3) Feathering at high rpm. I dont do this because I have never figured out how car mag guys to it without killing the clutch. I did try it a few in the first car I bought (used Mustang 5.0) but the fried clutch smell is not that great and my launches were worse. I'm sure with a racing clutch one could do this in an AWD car but I never learned how to get it right. I read about it and have watched people do I but I never got it. I have heard that the very best times are attained this way by the car mag pros.

    Edmunds reviews are pretty good but I would like more detail in certain areas. For example when they are testing performance cars it would be nice to say how they got their best launces, 1/4 times, and so on.
  • Options
    tmstevietmstevie Member Posts: 30
    For those w/XTs on the way, if you are half as happy as I am, you will be in good shape. My MT XT shifts every bit as well- or better- than a BMW I had just a few years ago. It also has more room, horse power, and is AWD. I'm sorry to hear some of the complaints and concerns being posted, but some of us are so far very happy!
  • Options
    pleiad7pleiad7 Member Posts: 59
    Pin, I asked my IMBA rep at the dealership back in June if I could order one directly. He first acted like he didn't know what I was talking about and then proceeded to explain that ordering was out of the question since I was "only" paying invoice - as if it was a cost factor for them! He said I could either wait until a silver XT shows up on their lot, or they could try and acquire one through dealer trading... I can't help but feel they've been giving me the runaround for 6 weeks now.

    Recently I contacted another dealership and they were willing to let me order one for $500 over invoice. Thanks, but no thanks.

    It must be a geographical problem - here in the Bay Area price gouging still seems to be a common theme among dealers - some are actually marking up Premium XT's over MSRP. Sometimes I feel like I'm shopping for an STi and not a Forester...
  • Options
    mgpottermgpotter Member Posts: 6
    I don't see the issue for the dealer if they order from Subaru. I bought mine from a dealer (I'm in the SF Bay area invoice +$500 and I was surprised how hard it was to work that number down to +$500) and it was ordered as there were none on the lot.

    I would contact IMBA directly and tell them the dealer is not honoring the program. If they had ordered directly from Subaru when you initially placed your order, you would have your car by now.

    They still make "profit" on an at invoice sale, just not as much.

    Michael
  • Options
    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    As far as I can tell the IMBA program does not explicitly require that you take the car from dealer stock: http://www.imba.com/tcc/subaru.html

    I joined ACA in April and hope to take advantage of the VIP program in the future. I don't see that requirement in its version of the program either: http://www.acanet.org/vip-request.htm

    Ed

    (edit: Thanks Dave ;-).)
  • Options
    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    The Subaru VIP Programs does not require that your purchase must be off dealer's lot and the dealer participating in the program should accomodate your request.

    -Dave
  • Options
    gvmelbrtygvmelbrty Member Posts: 64
    The Aussie Subaru site has posted a very informative PDF for the 04 Forester XT: "Forester XT technical description MY04 supplement."

    Explained, diagramed and pictured are the turbo engine improvements including the "semi closed deck" design and others, the Active Valve Control System (AVCS), Electronic Throttle Control System (ETCS), ‘Direct Control’ 4EAT, chassis improvements over 03 Forester, and more.

    This has been out awhile, but if you haven't read it, this 32-page PDF describes in great detail all the changes the newly redesigned 03 Forester received, which the 04 XT still shares: "Forester MY03 Technical Description."

    As a side note: I think documents such as these ought to be available at the Subaru of America web site as well. If I spent millions of dollars designing, testing, redesigning and manufacturing a complex and expensive product, I'd sure like to let my biggest market know every detail of the thought, care, and engineering that makes it superior to the competition.

    -tom
  • Options
    pleiad7pleiad7 Member Posts: 59
    Ed, Michael, Pin: Thanks for the info in regards to ordering directly from the factory. I think I will give IMBA a call if my dealership rep continues to remain unresponsive...
  • Options
    ace1000ace1000 Member Posts: 151
    Tom, thanks for the link to the XT technical description. It provides a lot of good information. For example, the towing limits are shown as 3080 pounds for a braked trailer, which is higher than the US spec, but only 1100 pounds for an unbraked trailer.

    The 0-62 mph times are shown as 6.4 seconds for the MT and 6.8 seconds for the AT. That's impressive for the AT. The C/D figures show the MT taking twice as long to accelerate to 40 as it did to 30, which is probably because of the gap between first and second. The AT may be as fast to 40 as the MT.

    I found the gap between first and second on the MT a little hard to get use to, but I'm comparing it to a C5 Vette that I bought because I wanted a performance car that could do 0-60 in less than 5 seconds once in my life before I got too old to get in and out of it. I usually shift out of first at about 25 mph, which is 3000 rpm on the Vette but 5000 rpm on the MT. I found that I had a hard time keeping the revs down in the MT. The MT is definitely faster off the line than the Vette, but because the Vette has a .5 sixth gear, the engine rpm is only 1400 at 65 mph and it gets over 30 mph cruising on the freeway.

    I agree with both sides on the issue. If I didn't have the Vette (my kids keep asking me if I am too old yet to get in and out of it) and wanted a manual, I would get the MT and adjust to it. The lower gas mileage is a small price to pay for the performance. Since I have a performance alternative and don't consider myself too old to drive it, I'm looking at the AT to replace my aging Volvo 850 Turbowagon. The AT seems to be a better replacement than the current Volvo models or other performance-oriented utility vehicles like the Murano. I'm holding off for now because the Volvo is still running well and has features that the XT doesn't.
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dunno, the difference sure felt like a lot more than 0.4 seconds. Another pro-auto argument though.

    Patti did get a response, but it's nothing we don't already know. They basically said the gearing it is not related to one specific thing. The gearing is set for the best possible driveability and performance so that the vehicle operates at optimum efficiency. When shift points, etc. are set, it is done based on studies
    with the vehicles to maximize the potential - and it can vary based on model.

    Blah blah, yadda yadda, tell us something we don't know.

    I'm sure short gearing was there to eliminate turbo lag.

    -juice
  • Options
    johnb2251johnb2251 Member Posts: 33
    My XT 5-manual has just had its first oil change with just over 2900 miles on the odometer. Most of those miles were put on the car on a recent trip to Colorado. Overall, the XT performed VERY well on the trip, and I’m immensely pleased with the purchase. The turbo was great to have when driving up to 11K – 12K foot passes. It never felt like it lacked power. On the 17 hour drive there and back, the XT was more comfortable than any other car I’ve owned. Driving at ~3500 RPM at 80 on the Interstate was not unpleasant at all – this issue can be laid to rest as a non-starter. Shifting the MT was very pleasing. There has been way too much exageration and hand-wringing about the 1st-2nd gear gap. Shifting smoothly and quickly is not a problem at all! It’s a much smoother shifter than my previous car (VW VR6 5-speed). One thing I did notice was that the boxer engine was not as smooth as the VR6. It’s not that it’s a problem, but it doesn’t always have the smoothest acceleration. All in all I’m thrilled it performed so well. I’m sure I’m leaving stuff out that I meant to say about it.
  • Options
    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Tom,

    Thanks for that great find! That document answered a lot of the questions I had about the XT.

    Has anyone else seen this document?

    It shows:
    - The torque curve for the 2.5T
    - Explains how AVCS works
    - Shows that the XT turbocharger is indeed the same one used in the WRX but with lower max boost
    - Mentions that the XT 5MT is changed over the 2003 model

    Ken
  • Options
    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Thanks for the PDF link, and yes, I too wish SOA were more forthcoming with this type of in-depth info. It's funny, the premium European brands do this. Maybe as Subaru moves further upmarket, they too will offer the same.

    Bob
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Subaru Crew chats starts shortly - link is a the top and on the left.

    Steve, Host
  • Options
    krccrkkrccrk Member Posts: 36
    Some XTs are harder than others to launch and shift smoothly. So if you don't like the first one you test drive, try another. And make sure you test drive the one you buy. My XT is a great car but the clutch is a pain. I test drove another XT and found its clutch much easier to use.
  • Options
    ace1000ace1000 Member Posts: 151
    Dan Jedlicka gives the XT a positive review but only a 7 out of 10 rating at the MSN auto review site:

    http://autos.msn.com/vip/jedlicka.aspx?make=Subaru&model=Fore- ster&src=reviewers
  • Options
    pinngpinng Member Posts: 10
    What recourse do I have if the clutch on the MT XT that I've ordered directly from Subaru isn't as smooth as the others or something isn't working properly?

    I ordered my last Honda Civic direct as well in 1988 and didn't even test drive it before I signed my check. But I was lucky that the car was a piece of art to drive. In fact, I put in more than 180,000 miles before letting it go two years ago and it was still running very smoothly except some body rust. I didn't even follow the proper break-in procedure. Most of the first 2K miles were highway crusing and I was getting around 30 mpg during its last few years

    Pin
  • Options
    johnb2251johnb2251 Member Posts: 33
    Some XTs are harder than others to launch and shift smoothly

    Another myth. I test drove 3 XT 5-speeds at 3 different dealerships - no appreciable difference.
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Turbos tend to mellow out the exhaust note, vs. normally aspirated models. So it might actually be making less noise at the same rpm, the engine that is. That would at least partially offset any extra noise from the shorter gearing.

    In my test drive, I dunno, I felt it was quieter than my '98. Maybe that's due to incremental refinements along the way, but still, it didn't seem loud at all.

    The clutch seemed very smooth on the one I drove. If it had a moonroof I might have bought it on the spot.

    -juice
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, just browsed that PDF, they have the XT and WRX torque curves side-by-side, and I have trouble believing it.

    Look closely, the WRX hits 300NM of torque before 3000rpm, well before the XT does. The XT is also more peaky, in that graph.

    Real world drives prove the exact opposite, though. I realize that WRX is an overseas model, but even the 2002 WRX on that graph makes more torque sooner in the rpm band than the XT, and that just ain't true in the real world.

    -juice
  • Options
    tmstevietmstevie Member Posts: 30
    I thought my XT was riding a bit rough when I brought it home from the dealership (almost a 2.5 hour drive). After checking the tire pressure some 2 weeks later, I found they had all tires at 36- now they are down to 31/32- much nicer ride, no handling compromise (actually handles better now.) My thanks to those who earlier posted some suggestions on tire pressure.
  • Options
    tmstevietmstevie Member Posts: 30
    My clutch works smooth as can be- sorry some of you are running into trouble. The shifting is not a problem, either, w/one exception, getting into reverse is a real PIA.
    Anyone have any idea if that's just how it is, or if I should have that checked out? Others who've driven my car noticed it as well.
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's the #1 dealers miss during the PDI, tire pressures.

    Try putting it in 1st, then reverse. The gears are next to each other on the tranny, physically, so that should take less effort if reverse seems hard to engage.

    -juice
  • Options
    lbhaleylbhaley Member Posts: 91
    My XT does not shift into reverse as easily as the other gears. I found that letting the clutch out in neutral first usually does the trick. My clutch is smooth and sweet. The low gearing means you don't need a lot of revs to get moving making for very smooth low speed starts. As I have said before, 3400 rpm at 78 mph does not feel as if the engine is working hard at all, and you have instant power available when you need it. What a car!
  • Options
    tmstevietmstevie Member Posts: 30
    "What a car!"
    My sentiments, exactly!

    Thanks for the tips on getting into reverse- I'll give those a try.
  • Options
    leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    "If it had a moonroof I might have bought it on the spot."

    juice: now we know why the MTs aren't available with the moonroof. Your wife has some "juice" with SOA...:)

    Len
  • Options
    kenokakenoka Member Posts: 218
    Is that comparing a 2.5T XT vs. a 2.0 WRX, or is it the 2.0 XT vs. the 2.0 WRX? It would make more sense if it were 2.0 vs. 2.0
  • Options
    subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    I am relieved at several posts from foks who have taken their XT's on long trips, including the edmunds writers, and reported a comfortable ride. Several WRX owners reported sore butts or backs after trips over a few hours.
       3500rpm at interstate cruising will take a little getting used to...my Explorer is a sliverunder 1500 rpm at 70 mph
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I would have owed her about 2-3 dozen "Honey Do" this or that to make up for it, but it would have been worth it!

    kenoka: lemme go back to the original PDF...

    nope, it says that's the curve for the 2.5XT. I have trouble believing it, to be honest.

    The low-pressure turbo build boost sooner and more linearly, so perhaps they reversed the graphs, LOL.

    -juice
This discussion has been closed.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles