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Subaru XT Turbo Forester
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Comments
But I still think outright acceleration was not the primary motive for Subaru's gearing selection on the XT. They could have kept it in the 6 second range and still have gotten positive reviews.
I wonder if Patti could ask a product planner about the XT 5-speed -- what do you think, juice?
samlater -- 34/32 works very well for me on my 98 Forester S. You could probably lower the front to about 32 and the rear even more if you wanted. I believe the door jamb sticker on my vehicle says 29/26 for a light load. I tried that once for grins and found that handling was comprimised.
Ken
Any how, I'll ask Patti to look into their decision to use a shorter final drive on the XT.
As for 0-60 comparison, you have to stick with the same publication, because they use different methods with varying levels of clutch abuse, LOL.
Silke: time to update your profile, it says you're still shopping! :-)
Also, I'd like to invite all the new owners to the chat on Thursday night.
-juice
This is turning out to be quite the frustrating buying experience... My dealer has been trying for about 6 weeks now to locate a silver auto XT for me, with no luck... I even decided to ditch the premium package in order to increase my chances of snatching one up. I guess it's not helping the sales guy's motivation that I'm paying invoice under the VIP program...
-juice
Ed
The Miata gets better gas mileage, but then again the revs at 70+ are just a bit higher than the XT.
As for finding a silver XT- I know exactly what you mean. The MTs are even harder to find. I grabbed the first one I found (after a test drive & 2 day cooling off period).
You can delete your own posts at any time with the delete button by your message title. The hosts try to clear duplicates out too when we see them.
Steve, Host
Click the "Recent messages" link at the bottom of the posts.
tidester, host
I have to say I'm somewhat concerned about the super-high final drive ratio; enough to postpone getting a XT. I've waited a year for the XT and now I'm thinking maybe I should wait yet another to see what happens with it. If nothing happens then search for something else.
I can't fathom what is going on with this drivetrain. It doesn't make a bit of sense. Subaru has always been weird, we all know that, but this doesn't sound like a car I would want to drive day in and day out. I'd much prefer the manual but even the auto seems too short and the milage is just horrendous for a car of that weight and size (yes I know it's not terribly aerodynamic either).
I loved the auto XT I test drove but didn't pay a bit of attention to the tach. The traffic was just too heavy to look away considering the speed I was going (ahem).
Would dumping a WRX or STi tranny do anything?
Just wondering here...
Have you thought about ordering one from Subaru? I did that in late June with the ACA VIP program and my dealer called me today telling me that mine was already on the track and should arrive in two weeks. I hope that's true.
I must say I'm getting rather concerned about the 1st to 2nd gear gap, the final drive ratio and the mpg issues. I guess I'll find out if they really matter that much to me SOON hopefully.
Pin
Give me a well broken in STi with new clutch for a couple of hours and I'll probably get you in the low 5s if I dont have to pay for any damage I do
There are 3 basic ways to launch high hp cars:
1) Low RPM, feather the clutch, wait for it to grab, and then hammer it. This is no different than gently working a manual transmission. Usually your times will be 0.5 to 1 full second slower than the the other 2 ways in an AWD turbo 4 car. I get my best times in RWD V8 cars using "normal" driving launches.
2) High RPM (3k-5k), drop the clutch, pray. This usually works very well with AWD that are turbo charged. This results in varopized tires if you try it in a Mustang or related RWD muscle car. It worked best in my old VR-4 at 3500rpm. Brings you boost way up so you are at max hp (and usually torque) and takes you to the edge of AWD traction. The major problem with this is that you are exposing your clutch and transmission to max torque all at once. As you can image its not so good for the life of your clutch. In the WRX I can get the tires to chirp and actually break traction with a 4k rpm launch. Getting low 6s is pretty easy and only measures your willingness to tolerate clutch replacement not really driving skill. I imagine its even more fun in an STI.
3) Feathering at high rpm. I dont do this because I have never figured out how car mag guys to it without killing the clutch. I did try it a few in the first car I bought (used Mustang 5.0) but the fried clutch smell is not that great and my launches were worse. I'm sure with a racing clutch one could do this in an AWD car but I never learned how to get it right. I read about it and have watched people do I but I never got it. I have heard that the very best times are attained this way by the car mag pros.
Edmunds reviews are pretty good but I would like more detail in certain areas. For example when they are testing performance cars it would be nice to say how they got their best launces, 1/4 times, and so on.
Recently I contacted another dealership and they were willing to let me order one for $500 over invoice. Thanks, but no thanks.
It must be a geographical problem - here in the Bay Area price gouging still seems to be a common theme among dealers - some are actually marking up Premium XT's over MSRP. Sometimes I feel like I'm shopping for an STi and not a Forester...
I would contact IMBA directly and tell them the dealer is not honoring the program. If they had ordered directly from Subaru when you initially placed your order, you would have your car by now.
They still make "profit" on an at invoice sale, just not as much.
Michael
I joined ACA in April and hope to take advantage of the VIP program in the future. I don't see that requirement in its version of the program either: http://www.acanet.org/vip-request.htm
Ed
(edit: Thanks Dave ;-).)
-Dave
Explained, diagramed and pictured are the turbo engine improvements including the "semi closed deck" design and others, the Active Valve Control System (AVCS), Electronic Throttle Control System (ETCS), ‘Direct Control’ 4EAT, chassis improvements over 03 Forester, and more.
This has been out awhile, but if you haven't read it, this 32-page PDF describes in great detail all the changes the newly redesigned 03 Forester received, which the 04 XT still shares: "Forester MY03 Technical Description."
As a side note: I think documents such as these ought to be available at the Subaru of America web site as well. If I spent millions of dollars designing, testing, redesigning and manufacturing a complex and expensive product, I'd sure like to let my biggest market know every detail of the thought, care, and engineering that makes it superior to the competition.
-tom
The 0-62 mph times are shown as 6.4 seconds for the MT and 6.8 seconds for the AT. That's impressive for the AT. The C/D figures show the MT taking twice as long to accelerate to 40 as it did to 30, which is probably because of the gap between first and second. The AT may be as fast to 40 as the MT.
I found the gap between first and second on the MT a little hard to get use to, but I'm comparing it to a C5 Vette that I bought because I wanted a performance car that could do 0-60 in less than 5 seconds once in my life before I got too old to get in and out of it. I usually shift out of first at about 25 mph, which is 3000 rpm on the Vette but 5000 rpm on the MT. I found that I had a hard time keeping the revs down in the MT. The MT is definitely faster off the line than the Vette, but because the Vette has a .5 sixth gear, the engine rpm is only 1400 at 65 mph and it gets over 30 mph cruising on the freeway.
I agree with both sides on the issue. If I didn't have the Vette (my kids keep asking me if I am too old yet to get in and out of it) and wanted a manual, I would get the MT and adjust to it. The lower gas mileage is a small price to pay for the performance. Since I have a performance alternative and don't consider myself too old to drive it, I'm looking at the AT to replace my aging Volvo 850 Turbowagon. The AT seems to be a better replacement than the current Volvo models or other performance-oriented utility vehicles like the Murano. I'm holding off for now because the Volvo is still running well and has features that the XT doesn't.
Patti did get a response, but it's nothing we don't already know. They basically said the gearing it is not related to one specific thing. The gearing is set for the best possible driveability and performance so that the vehicle operates at optimum efficiency. When shift points, etc. are set, it is done based on studies
with the vehicles to maximize the potential - and it can vary based on model.
Blah blah, yadda yadda, tell us something we don't know.
I'm sure short gearing was there to eliminate turbo lag.
-juice
Thanks for that great find! That document answered a lot of the questions I had about the XT.
Has anyone else seen this document?
It shows:
- The torque curve for the 2.5T
- Explains how AVCS works
- Shows that the XT turbocharger is indeed the same one used in the WRX but with lower max boost
- Mentions that the XT 5MT is changed over the 2003 model
Ken
Bob
Steve, Host
http://autos.msn.com/vip/jedlicka.aspx?make=Subaru&model=Fore- ster&src=reviewers
I ordered my last Honda Civic direct as well in 1988 and didn't even test drive it before I signed my check. But I was lucky that the car was a piece of art to drive. In fact, I put in more than 180,000 miles before letting it go two years ago and it was still running very smoothly except some body rust. I didn't even follow the proper break-in procedure. Most of the first 2K miles were highway crusing and I was getting around 30 mpg during its last few years
Pin
Another myth. I test drove 3 XT 5-speeds at 3 different dealerships - no appreciable difference.
In my test drive, I dunno, I felt it was quieter than my '98. Maybe that's due to incremental refinements along the way, but still, it didn't seem loud at all.
The clutch seemed very smooth on the one I drove. If it had a moonroof I might have bought it on the spot.
-juice
Look closely, the WRX hits 300NM of torque before 3000rpm, well before the XT does. The XT is also more peaky, in that graph.
Real world drives prove the exact opposite, though. I realize that WRX is an overseas model, but even the 2002 WRX on that graph makes more torque sooner in the rpm band than the XT, and that just ain't true in the real world.
-juice
Anyone have any idea if that's just how it is, or if I should have that checked out? Others who've driven my car noticed it as well.
Try putting it in 1st, then reverse. The gears are next to each other on the tranny, physically, so that should take less effort if reverse seems hard to engage.
-juice
My sentiments, exactly!
Thanks for the tips on getting into reverse- I'll give those a try.
juice: now we know why the MTs aren't available with the moonroof. Your wife has some "juice" with SOA...:)
Len
3500rpm at interstate cruising will take a little getting used to...my Explorer is a sliverunder 1500 rpm at 70 mph
kenoka: lemme go back to the original PDF...
nope, it says that's the curve for the 2.5XT. I have trouble believing it, to be honest.
The low-pressure turbo build boost sooner and more linearly, so perhaps they reversed the graphs, LOL.
-juice