Finally test drove the Hemi today. Took it by work, and got Oohs and Aahs from every single person.
Still not happy with the visibility, but friend with an Audi A8L says it seems the same as his, and that one gets used to it. Accel from about 5 MPH was very sweet, but from standing still, it had a noticeable delay, then a slight tire spin, finally a take off. Wasn't WOW fast early on, but could tell it was about to really kick in when I had to let up based on speed limit (35 or so). Felt great on freeway on-ramps.
Big news, to me, was the sign on window for the Credit Union sale this weekend in Fairfax VA (see fairfaxautomile.com for more info). This is a bunch of dealers getting together every 6 months, and all the cars have no-haggle prices posted. This stickered at 37.6 and the no-haggle was 37.1. Not great in general, but under sticker isn't bad with all the stories of markups. Dealer only had 2 left today, so no promise that there will be any left on Saturday, but for those in area, might be worth a chance.
I drove a 300 Touring today, first one on the dealer's lot, fresh off the truck. The dealer couldn't get his magnetic license plate to stick to the trunk lid. Is it fiberglass?
The car drove spectacularly well over the bumps, very comfortable ride. I was pleasantly surprised, considering Car and Driver's comment about the "crusty suspension" and USA Today's harsh comments about it riding like a "buckboard". The standard radio was excellent, a huge improvement in sound quality over the Infinity system in the 300M.
Meanwhile, the 300C I ordered January 13 still has not been scheduled to be built. Maybe sometime this summer....
I just saw the 300C commercial on the Aprentice. This car is most definitely magnificent. I think that Chrysler should emphasize the power of the 300C a little more in the commercials, however.
AWD will not get damaged if you have a blowout. You're thinking of the old four-wheel-drive systems with a transfer case. They had slightly different axle ratios for the front and rear differentials (long story why), but that's why they get damaged.
All-wheel-drive usually utilizes a viscous (fluid) coupling. My understanding is that it will be a 38/62 F-R bias, just like the Mercedes 4-Matic system. You won't damage it if you get a blow out.
Chrysler added the $1,000 Loyalty Discount information to their home page today. It says it's "for returning DaimlerChrysler owners and lessees". I don't yet have the details, but it's on the page so it is official!
Saw my first one today on the road. I hope it really drives well. Because it looks really wierd to me. I can see Daimlers influence in it. The ultra high beltline and the Sunbeam grille don't work for me.
in the mail today i received a road and track special edition featuring the 300. it's kind of a chrysler pr meets road test special edition. i guess i got it because i signed up for extra 300 info some time ago.
anyway, it explicitly states that the 4 speed auto in the LX cars is the same as that used in the LH...just slightly modified for RWD...
I saw a 300 Touring rent-a-car in Byrce Canyon earlier this week. It was dark blue and the front-end look cheap. The rear bumper looked way too large.
The local dealer called today and I sat in and examined a 300C painted Magnesium. What a difference - the chrome on the front end, the paint color, and rear proximity sensors in the bumper really made a difference.
The interior is very nice.
I am 6' 1", and think I will not order the sun roof, as I would have more freedom to adjust the seat.
I took my tape measure and found good news on the trunk. It is 57" wide in back and above the wheel wells, so an object such as my 22" x 55" folding ladder will fit. The trunk is 44" from front to back with the back seats up.
That dealer also had a black car and three others in back, and promised to have plenty for the party on 4/22. I will go then and drive one.
kvilleboy--My sources in Brampton tell me that they are not conducting any tours of the plant now. My 300M club could not get one in August last year after the Woodward Dream Cruise, but we were unsure if it was 9/11 related, or just because they were going to re-tool for the LX platform around September 1, and couldn't be bothered with such things. We had 40 odd people go through the plant the year before and Club interest was very high before the rug got pulled out from under us last year. [Course the big power outage would have probably killed the tour anyway as it turned out.]
brian211--On buying a first year build, it is a crapshoot. Some, like Fastdriver had poor luck with the new 300M. I, on the other hand, have had very good luck with mine, and only the typical electronic failed parts [probably supplied by Japanese companies!!!] that were found on almost all the new 300Ms have been encountered. But the same can be said for almost any new model car. Check the RX-8, Audi, Chevy SSR and Crossfire boards and you will see similar glitches or failed parts. The question is what kind of dealer support will you get. If you have a 2* rather than a 5* dealer, then it can be a bad experience. I fortunately have a true 5* dealer, and they have been great in servicing my 300M. As Clint Eastwood would say: The question you got to ask yourself on any first year build is "Do you feel lucky?" If so, go for it.
Found out yesterday tht my car is supposedly in the Twin Cities area waiting to be trucked to the dealership. So, "should be" next week.........geesh, what a wait it's been,..since mid-Jan.
Right now I am disturbed by the Chrysler delivery agenda. My dealer has 3-300's and sold a 300c last week. On the otherhand, I placed my order on 1/24/04 and I was informed that the vehicle could be at least 10 days away from delivery. Is this the treatment I get for taking the risk and ordering the car sight unseen? It appears that those of us who specially ordered cars that sit up in parking lots at an amusement park are now being overlooked, while the plant is first shipping the cars coming-off the assembly line to avoid storage issues.
It'll eventually come out that putting all those early vehicles in holding pens wasn't such a brilliant idea after all. We do know that there was a problem, either with engineering, or simply logistical, in that Mopar pulled the Tire Pressure Sensors on the early vehicles. Plus, there was a Canadian rail strike this spring, so who knows what really took place to delay those early vehicles. It seems that most of the 300's stickers have a "Hold for Premiere Night" statement. That program makes no sense when buyers are anxiously waiting delivery.
Add my name to list of very frustrated buyers. I, also, ordered a 300C on 1/22/04; it was completed on 2/27 (or 28) and has been in storage ever since. It appears the very early orders have been lost in the rush to get recently manufactured cars directly to the dealers. Sure doesn't seem like a good PR move on Chrysler's part. Here, we trust them enought to order a car and we wait while cars that were ORDERED after mine was actually built have already been delivered. To top it off, the Chrysler Customer Service folks have NOT been given correct information in a lot of cases and are forced to repeat the platitudes that Chrysler has told them to say.
Hopefully, all this frustration and poor communication from Chrysler will be worth the wait.
the split is 32% front and 62% rear. There was no mention of it being able to be disabled so I think its an always on situation instead of a "when you need it" situation.
andre1969 - The R&T extra is sweet. LOTS of pretty pictures and details galore. Plus I believe there is another article in the regular issue itself.
The rear-drive-biased AWD implementation will be the 300C AWD -- as noted 38% F and 62% rear under "normal" conditions. Like the other European cars (based on European cars, more accurately) the AWD is "always" on there is no four wheel drive switch or lever.
It is my understanding that under conditions of low traction, torque can be shifted to the end of the car that needs it the most. I don't recall how much of the motive force can be, for example, directed at the Front -- but it is typical that such systems would permit a minimum of 50% of the drive force to go to the wheels needing it the most.
Since Acura is making such a big deal about their side to side AWD system, I can only assume that DC's in the 300C does NOT go the extra step in "smartness" to also provide side to side torque shift.
However, I can attest that the AWD system, such as will be in the 300C will provide essentially the best of both worlds (all worlds?) of FWD and RWD. The current argument is that to be a "player" you must be either RWD or AWD -- hence the rush to market of Acura, Cadillac, Chrysler even BMW and, of course Mercedes with AWD variants. Audi and Subaru have, of course, been at this for a while too, as have Volvo and Volkswagen.
Frankly, with this much power and torque underfoot, and with the apparently compentent DC chassis and DC 5spd automatic (manumatic) I wouldn't dream of getting one without AWD especially here in SoutWestern Ohio -- even with our mostly moderate winters.
What concerns me is the apparent lack of product information that the DEALERS have. Hopefully the technicians will be better trained.
If you know, or have been told or read when the AWD versions will be available for a test drive, I would appreciate knowing.
And, question 2, will the 300C offer any kind of "On*star" (MB tele-aid?) telematics?
From a marketing perspective, I think it is smart that D-C is going to offer AWD, but I still feel that the art of winter driving has been lost.
Because I have practiced so much in snowy conditions, I have more control over my car in ANY condition. I don't panic when someone cuts me off or when someone slams on their brakes -- I simply take corrective action and recognize how the car will respond.
The automakers are appealing to people who seem to want cars that do the driving for them. Case in point: Mercedes' stupid "adaptive cruise control" (or whatever it's called) which puts on the brakes for you if you get to close to the car in front of you. Hasn't anyone heard of COASTING? It saves fuel AND wear & tear on your car. If you 'read' the traffic flow and pay attention to your driving, there is no reason to use your brakes on the highway.
Even here in Buffalo, the only time I think I'll regret not having an AWD version of the 300 is when the snowplow buries the end of my driveway. (In my Avenger, I simply back the car up at about 25 mph and vault it over the top!)
Mikemullin6 wrote: the Chrysler Customer Service folks have NOT been given correct information in a lot of cases.
I called the 800-Chrysler number to confirm the $1,000 discount as soon as I saw it posted on this board. Of course, they didn't know anything about it, but as you said, they really can't be blamed for lack of information being given to them. It does reflect something though when you get the latest news from a message board.
I haven't even considered American cars when shopping since '99...until this year. Now that Cadillac has a decent engine in the CTS and has made some other improvements, I was almost settled on buying it for my next car. That is, until I saw the 300C.
I am more excited about these domestic products than I have been about most of the Japanese and European launches lately. I guess I'm reaching that age where I appreciate seeing some of the old American muscle car nuances, such as big engines, big slab sides and RWD. Now, my only concern is quality and reliability, neither of which I've been convinced Chrylser has been capable of.
I'm going to have to rein in my emotions and wait at least a year before deciding on either car. I don't see an enormous number of CTS's around, and I prefer to not be just another car on the road. I'm a bit concerned that these 300's are spread over too much of a price range and the car will shortly become a common sight, if they sell as well as anticipated. I love the look, though. I think it's the kind of car the Green Hornet or Dick Tracy would drive today.
P.S. The trunk lid is made of aluminum. What other sheet metal is?
Can anyone think of any cars that are comparable in size and power/performance to the C for under $40k. All I could come up with was the Bonneville GXP and Lincoln LS. I don't mean what cars will it compete with for sales but rather what's physically and mechanically comparable.
yeehaw!! just got off the phone with my dealer and my car, she be in!!!! going to take delivery at 6pm!!! Will post pics tomorrow for everyone to see. it's a good day!
By price the C competes with a variety of cars, but by size, features, and power, it competes with the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, the BMW 745, the Lexus LS430, and such. The base versions of those cars cost far more than the C. One magazine said that such cars cost a Honda Civic more than the C, but with comparable power, it is more like an Accord EX worth. The C is an unmatched value.
For still more money, those other full sized rear wheel drive cars do offer super expensive options such as ultra-luxury rear seats, heated and cooled seats, and air suspensions, and brand names which some big spenders think are worth $20,000.
As far as cars that are comparable in price and V8 performance, your only choices seem to be American. This is an apples to oranges comparison, but my choices have been the upcoming '05 Mustang GT and the '05 GTO. I wanted to compare the two back-to-back this fall.
As impressed as I was when I viewed the 300 at the Detroit Auto Show, I thought, "But it's HUGE, and it's a four-door. I want a sport coupe with a stick shift!"
I'm caving in now. The 300 seems to be the best thing going, and it has a huge following. With Ford's quality being called into question nearly every day, I'm not as confident about the Mustang as I once was.
My friend's Acura TL is a great car, but the 300C incites PASSION in me. I just don't see as the Lincoln LS comes anywhere close, especially for the huge difference in price. The Pontiac GXP looks nice, though. It's looking like the 300 for me though.
of the GTO as well, although that's not a direct comparison. I guess it popped into my mind though, because if I had the money to spend on a car right now, the GTO and the 300C both interest me. I like the GTO because it's RWD, a coupe, V-8, and fast. But then I like the 300C because its RWD, V-8, fast, comfortable, roomy (havent' sat in a GTO yet...it may be comfortable but I'm sure it ain't roomy!), available with a sunroof, and I like the looks of it. I wouldn't call the 300 pretty, but it has a hulking, substantial look to it...makes the GTO look like a Cavalier coupe with a Pontiac nose grafted on!
About the only other car I can think of, in addition to what others have mentioned, that might compete with the 300 are the Mercury Marauder. It's not nearly as fast, though, and has been a bit of a disappointment to Ford and an insult to the Marauder name.
I like the Acura TL too...a friend of mine recently bought one, and for about $30-32K or whatever it seems like a great value. But compared to a 300C, I just kind of forget about it!
I don't know how you can compare the 300 to the GTO?? They are completely two different cars with nothing in common except horsepower. I would think the majority of people in the market for the 300 are not considering a coupe type vehicle. Anyway, to each his/her own....
The TL is close in price, but not size, and has a huge flaw - front wheel drive, which results in torque steer, long stopping distances, and poorer handling. Parts for the 300 should also be much less expensive than for the Acura.
The Marauder is a lousy car and not at all worth the price: the seats are super slick, it has a solid rear axle, the CD changer is in the trunk, and, given the police concerns, probably would not pass the 50MPH rear crash test that the 300 and Magnum are designed to pass. Same with the Crown Victoria and the even more expensive Lincoln Town car version. In fact, I think that DCX can take all of the police business they want away from Ford.
The Cadillac DeVille is much more expensive, only has front wheel drive, has strange seat-mounted sealt belts, and is out of date in many other ways.
I liked the 300c. Didn't get to drive one yet, though. However, I'm not sure its the car for me. My price ceiling is $27-28k, which won't get me the hemi, unless incentives get heavy. And I think I'd rather have a Caddy CTS than the 300 touring at my price point. The wheels on the 300 touring don't appeal to me, chrylser quality is even more suspect than the new caddys, and it's not like I need the extra size of the 300. Now, if incentives do appear that allow a 300c to be had for $28k, I'll be knocking down the door at my chrysler dealership. Still, looking forward to driving the hemi.
So, what kind of CTS do you expect to get for $27K? The CTS is not a real option if the $27-28K price ceiling is the only reason you're not getting the 300C.
You would have to buy a CTS-V to compete with the 300C. A V6 CTS would be far more expensive than a V6 300 Limited or Touring. The CTS base is lacking many things which are expensive options, so the only way to get a CTS with comparable equipment down to the same price as a new 300 is to buy a used CTS.
hey, has anyone else here noticed that the new 300 and magnum are the first chrysler vehicles in a looooong time that have locking exterior fuel doors...?
Have you driven a TL ? a sorry but even with front wheel drive you would be-able to drive circles around the 300C. The Crown Vic is cheaper, more interior room and has an establish history of reliability. The 300C is a nice car but lets not get carried away here
Every single weekend I see ads in the LA Times and the San Diego UnionTrib for CTSs at $28k, with auto tanny's. On the CTS board, one guy reported scoring one at $26.5. That is right at 300 touring $. Indeed, the 300's may drive down CTS and Lincoln LS prices even more. Thus, a CTS is not "far more" expensive than a 300 touring (although it can be if loaded up), and the base CTS w/auto is equipped just fine, at least for me. Now, again, if Chrysler slaps on some incentives, and drives down the 300c price to around $28k, or the 300 touring down below $25, the equation will likely change for me. Unfortunately, $28k is just my ceiling. Also, perhaps the new 300 will change Chrysler's image for itself, but as of now it just isn't a luxury name. I do hope the car does well, heck, I might buy one. But more competition in the RWD good size sedan category will be great all around in any event.
On the 300c I drove yesterday, we noticed the fuel door didn't have a thumb-tab to open it, so we looked around for a release. After not finding one, someone just pressed on the forward edge, and it opened the other side enough to pull it all the way out. Hinged about 1/4 in towards the middle, but not locking in any way. Too bad, with the price of gas.
Even though I am on the buying end (and I pay cash for cars), I sure hope and expect that the 300C will not turn out to be a flop which has to be marked down $5,000 to $10,000. It seems far more likely that the LS and CTS will have to be marked down.
To perform a valid comparison, I suggest using Edmunds to price both cars with similar equipment.
Anyone know much about this $1000 offer? The official site just says see your dealer.
Specifically, my mom bought a used Concorde, so I was wondering if I might be able to use that fact to get this discount. Does she have to be the original owner? What paperwork does she have to co-sign for me to get the discount?
Anybody know what kind of built in anti-theft or security systems comes on the 300c? Just curious as I imagine, if I were to purchase a 300c, my insurance will go up a good jump. Hopefully Chrysler has some good anti-theft tech built in to at least curb some of the insurance rate.
While I got my Car and Driver 300c review and it confirmed what was becoming the obvious answer to my earlier post questions - where are the high perf. pieces to go with the Hemi v-8 engine & 5-speed autostick tranny? C & D blurb - "No High Performance suspension will be available until the SRT version comes out next year." Bummer.
So the options for those of us who want to have the 300C in a true sports sedan configuration are wait for the SRT ("Chrysler 300 Hemi-C SRT" quite a mouthful, huh?) next year or take the current Hemi-C and try to tweak it there yourself.
Tires - You can at least go up to a 245/55 BFG gforce T/A KDS (another mouthful) to get a decent high performance all seasons. I assume those should still fit (just a tad wider). If you want anything more exotic in way of a true high perf. summer tire as far as I can tell you'd have to go into smaller diameter wheel+tire sizes that mess up the speedo (and who knows what to the suspension).
Wheels - I don't like the look of the too many spoke chrome wheels (and they look to busy & heavy for my taste). Might want 18's with a little wider rims to go w/the 245's anyway (and lose some spokes when you do it if you can). Tire Rack doesn't have any options for it spec'd/posted on their web site yet.
Axle Ratio - As I expected from seeing a "2.82" ratio on the Hemi-C, this is geared much more for mileage than for fast launch (and with the V-8 it still is sub 6!). R&T reports 44 and 72 for 1-2 and 2-3 shift points, C&D slightly higher. Not bad, Much better than the 300M 4 speed, but by my rough calcs if you could get an axle somewhere in the 3.2 range it would bring the shift points down into mid/high 30's and low 60's for better 0-60 acceleration times. The current 5th is so tall now (1800rpm reported at 60mph) that I don't think that change would hurt fuel economy or noise for high speed cruising much.
Speed limiter - As I expected thanks to the touring "H" rated tires the reviewers are reporting the Hemi-C is hobbled by a rev limited somewhere around 130mph. Probably/hopefully somebody will post the wire that has to be cut onto this site at some point.
Suspension upgrades - TBD Brake upgrades - TBD (at least they are pretty big on the C package)
So I presume that the real SRT team is working on addressing all of these points at once right now - if they do it right -(Chrysler - please, please keep the value pricing in this option too!). I'm hoping that this time it will be aimed for performance & functionality more than looks. For one thing - I'd rather see SRT stay with [different style] 18's with wider/lower profile tires that put it into the heart of the performance tire choices - after all they can alter the speedo! Fill those wheel wells up with Width not height - 20" rims look great on a show car but I've read enough about unsprung weight to think 18" is enough).
Decision - So even though I was itching for the 300 C, I think I want the whole package enough to put in another year with my '99 300M PHP. Consider how well the current 300c does in reviews and specs with those current tires (should be hurting accel., handlng, & braking #'s) - the SRT should really be in the sport sedan and high end luxury sport sedans!
I suppose I should thank Chrysler for keeping me responsible - but I really just want them to hurry up with the SRT so that they can get my money sooner! Although with those 300C ads spinning out and the prospect of seeing some of you in 300C's on the road, I can't be positive I'll be able to hold out for a whole year.
My car (Jade 300c) is somewhere between NJ and Long Island. My Dealer told me last Saturday I would have the car by Wednesday he showed me his tracking print out to prove it. On Tuesday he showed me a new print out with a 4/19 ETA. He called NJ and put a "hot ticket" on it, Now he says he's calling the transport company every hour or so and they are not answering. Anyway, Re the Loyalty Program I called today and he said I am eligible, He said you need to be a current owner of a Mopar product and you have to show the registration. Since I own a 94 NY'er I'm in. Not sure about family members suggest you call your dealer. Also, it is an instant rebate deducted from the purchase price by the dealer not a wait for a check from DC deal. In NY you still have to pay sales tax on the full price. 8.75% So you save $1000 not $1087.50. So although I am eager to take delivery, the week wait may have saved me a grand.
To get the Loyalty Discount the buyer of the 300 has to be listed as the owner on the title of the current DaimlerChrysler vehicle. They ask for a registration receipt as proof of ownership. I believe there is also a cutoff for age of the vehicle, but I don't know what that cutoff is. I do know that a 1997 model will work as my dealer added that discount to my deal today. Good luck to you!
Thanks for the help with the Loyalty question. Now I have another.
I'm considering getting a spec car that is already on it's way. This one was ordered without U-Connect, the bluetooth hands-free phone thing.
My dealer offers a dealer-installed version. He claims that they are the same, with the exception of where the buttons are positioned. On factory-installed versions, the buttons are at the bottom of the rear-view mirror, while on dealer-installed versions, the buttons come on a "pad", approximately one inch by 3 inches, that can be placed basically anywhere on the dash. Other than this, there is supposedly no difference.
fsmmcsi, you said that the cts-v compares with the 300C...well there is no comparision. the cts-v is a 400 hp beast that does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, and it's much lighter than the 300C. the 300C is what, 5.8-6 seconds? and it costs a bit more. the cts v could compare with a "Chrysler 300 Viper-X SRT-10" but would probably get its but whooped...
Sorry to rain on your parade, but changing the speed limiter is not a matter of cutting a wire. The computer has to be reprogramed.
The V6 CTS is slow compared with the 300C, and the CTS-V is far more expensive and equipped with a manual transmission, so the comparison is not as straight-forward as with other cars. Therefore, I'll change my mind and say that the better comparison is between the regular CTS and the 300C. The CTS, equipped in a similar way, is more expensive and slower than the 300C.
I got the call My Black protection II, sound II 300C is in!!!!! I picked it up at 7:00pm west coast time. Pre ordered in Feb. the window sticker says " This vehicle was built especially for" my name..$36.5xxx out the door. The General Mgr. said Pls take it home the sales people want to drive and sit in it. Wow huge trunk! Top of the line interior and very quiet. The ride quality is not Lexus but its not harsh at all. Very good brakes and lots of stares from everyone. She's safe in my garage her new home......
I almost forgot the 300C already has a recall. I saw the car at the sevice Dept. For its pre delivery set-up. The service Mgr. told me the car may pull a little when you let go of the wheel. Chrysler already is aware and is sending Dlrs. a Control-arm kit due May 8th.
Just because you see ads, doesn't mean they actually have them on the lot at that price. Each dealer can always list one at a price that will of course be sold even before the ad prints. By the time you add equipment to even match a 300 Touring, it is well into the 30's. Invoice of a base CTS, plus auto tranny and no other options is over $31K. You may be able to get them under invoice, but $3000 under invoice is a stretch and you still have a pretty stripped, basic model. If you can go get a new 2004 CTS equipped like 300C for $28K, then you should go ahead and just get it.
Comments
Still not happy with the visibility, but friend with an Audi A8L says it seems the same as his, and that one gets used to it. Accel from about 5 MPH was very sweet, but from standing still, it had a noticeable delay, then a slight tire spin, finally a take off. Wasn't WOW fast early on, but could tell it was about to really kick in when I had to let up based on speed limit (35 or so). Felt great on freeway on-ramps.
Big news, to me, was the sign on window for the Credit Union sale this weekend in Fairfax VA (see fairfaxautomile.com for more info). This is a bunch of dealers getting together every 6 months, and all the cars have no-haggle prices posted. This stickered at 37.6 and the no-haggle was 37.1. Not great in general, but under sticker isn't bad with all the stories of markups. Dealer only had 2 left today, so no promise that there will be any left on Saturday, but for those in area, might be worth a chance.
stephen
The car drove spectacularly well over the bumps, very comfortable ride. I was pleasantly surprised, considering Car and Driver's comment about the "crusty suspension" and USA Today's harsh comments about it riding like a "buckboard". The standard radio was excellent, a huge improvement in sound quality over the Infinity system in the 300M.
Meanwhile, the 300C I ordered January 13 still has not been scheduled to be built. Maybe sometime this summer....
stephen
AWD will not get damaged if you have a blowout. You're thinking of the old four-wheel-drive systems with a transfer case. They had slightly different axle ratios for the front and rear differentials (long story why), but that's why they get damaged.
All-wheel-drive usually utilizes a viscous (fluid) coupling. My understanding is that it will be a 38/62 F-R bias, just like the Mercedes 4-Matic system. You won't damage it if you get a blow out.
No stop sweating the details and go buy the car!
http://www.chrysler.com/300/index.html
in the mail today i received a road and track special edition featuring the 300. it's kind of a chrysler pr meets road test special edition. i guess i got it because i signed up for extra 300 info some time ago.
anyway, it explicitly states that the 4 speed auto in the LX cars is the same as that used in the LH...just slightly modified for RWD...
The local dealer called today and I sat in and examined a 300C painted Magnesium. What a difference - the chrome on the front end, the paint color, and rear proximity sensors in the bumper really made a difference.
The interior is very nice.
I am 6' 1", and think I will not order the sun roof, as I would have more freedom to adjust the seat.
I took my tape measure and found good news on the trunk. It is 57" wide in back and above the wheel wells, so an object such as my 22" x 55" folding ladder will fit. The trunk is 44" from front to back with the back seats up.
That dealer also had a black car and three others in back, and promised to have plenty for the party on 4/22. I will go then and drive one.
brian211--On buying a first year build, it is a crapshoot. Some, like Fastdriver had poor luck with the new 300M. I, on the other hand, have had very good luck with mine, and only the typical electronic failed parts [probably supplied by Japanese companies!!!] that were found on almost all the new 300Ms have been encountered. But the same can be said for almost any new model car. Check the RX-8, Audi, Chevy SSR and Crossfire boards and you will see similar glitches or failed parts. The question is what kind of dealer support will you get. If you have a 2* rather than a 5* dealer, then it can be a bad experience. I fortunately have a true 5* dealer, and they have been great in servicing my 300M. As Clint Eastwood would say: The question you got to ask yourself on any first year build is "Do you feel lucky?" If so, go for it.
That program makes no sense when buyers are anxiously waiting delivery.
Hopefully, all this frustration and poor communication from Chrysler will be worth the wait.
andre1969 - The R&T extra is sweet. LOTS of pretty pictures and details galore. Plus I believe there is another article in the regular issue itself.
It is my understanding that under conditions of low traction, torque can be shifted to the end of the car that needs it the most. I don't recall how much of the motive force can be, for example, directed at the Front -- but it is typical that such systems would permit a minimum of 50% of the drive force to go to the wheels needing it the most.
Since Acura is making such a big deal about their side to side AWD system, I can only assume that DC's in the 300C does NOT go the extra step in "smartness" to also provide side to side torque shift.
However, I can attest that the AWD system, such as will be in the 300C will provide essentially the best of both worlds (all worlds?) of FWD and RWD. The current argument is that to be a "player" you must be either RWD or AWD -- hence the rush to market of Acura, Cadillac, Chrysler even BMW and, of course Mercedes with AWD variants. Audi and Subaru have, of course, been at this for a while too, as have Volvo and Volkswagen.
Frankly, with this much power and torque underfoot, and with the apparently compentent DC chassis and DC 5spd automatic (manumatic) I wouldn't dream of getting one without AWD especially here in SoutWestern Ohio -- even with our mostly moderate winters.
What concerns me is the apparent lack of product information that the DEALERS have. Hopefully the technicians will be better trained.
If you know, or have been told or read when the AWD versions will be available for a test drive, I would appreciate knowing.
And, question 2, will the 300C offer any kind of "On*star" (MB tele-aid?) telematics?
Thanks.
Because I have practiced so much in snowy conditions, I have more control over my car in ANY condition. I don't panic when someone cuts me off or when someone slams on their brakes -- I simply take corrective action and recognize how the car will respond.
The automakers are appealing to people who seem to want cars that do the driving for them. Case in point: Mercedes' stupid "adaptive cruise control" (or whatever it's called) which puts on the brakes for you if you get to close to the car in front of you. Hasn't anyone heard of COASTING? It saves fuel AND wear & tear on your car. If you 'read' the traffic flow and pay attention to your driving, there is no reason to use your brakes on the highway.
Even here in Buffalo, the only time I think I'll regret not having an AWD version of the 300 is when the snowplow buries the end of my driveway. (In my Avenger, I simply back the car up at about 25 mph and vault it over the top!)
I called the 800-Chrysler number to confirm the $1,000 discount as soon as I saw it posted on this board. Of course, they didn't know anything about it, but as you said, they really can't be blamed for lack of information being given to them. It does reflect something though when you get the latest news from a message board.
PS: Thanks SuperDave for the "official" link.
I am more excited about these domestic products than I have been about most of the Japanese and European launches lately. I guess I'm reaching that age where I appreciate seeing some of the old American muscle car nuances, such as big engines, big slab sides and RWD. Now, my only concern is quality and reliability, neither of which I've been convinced Chrylser has been capable of.
I'm going to have to rein in my emotions and wait at least a year before deciding on either car. I don't see an enormous number of CTS's around, and I prefer to not be just another car on the road. I'm a bit concerned that these 300's are spread over too much of a price range and the car will shortly become a common sight, if they sell as well as anticipated. I love the look, though. I think it's the kind of car the Green Hornet or Dick Tracy would drive today.
P.S. The trunk lid is made of aluminum. What other sheet metal is?
For still more money, those other full sized rear wheel drive cars do offer super expensive options such as ultra-luxury rear seats, heated and cooled seats, and air suspensions, and brand names which some big spenders think are worth $20,000.
Could you tell me what day you ordered your car,was it a 300c and what city do you live in?
As impressed as I was when I viewed the 300 at the Detroit Auto Show, I thought, "But it's HUGE, and it's a four-door. I want a sport coupe with a stick shift!"
I'm caving in now. The 300 seems to be the best thing going, and it has a huge following. With Ford's quality being called into question nearly every day, I'm not as confident about the Mustang as I once was.
My friend's Acura TL is a great car, but the 300C incites PASSION in me. I just don't see as the Lincoln LS comes anywhere close, especially for the huge difference in price. The Pontiac GXP looks nice, though. It's looking like the 300 for me though.
About the only other car I can think of, in addition to what others have mentioned, that might compete with the 300 are the Mercury Marauder. It's not nearly as fast, though, and has been a bit of a disappointment to Ford and an insult to the Marauder name.
I like the Acura TL too...a friend of mine recently bought one, and for about $30-32K or whatever it seems like a great value. But compared to a 300C, I just kind of forget about it!
The Marauder is a lousy car and not at all worth the price: the seats are super slick, it has a solid rear axle, the CD changer is in the trunk, and, given the police concerns, probably would not pass the 50MPH rear crash test that the 300 and Magnum are designed to pass. Same with the Crown Victoria and the even more expensive Lincoln Town car version. In fact, I think that DCX can take all of the police business they want away from Ford.
The Cadillac DeVille is much more expensive, only has front wheel drive, has strange seat-mounted sealt belts, and is out of date in many other ways.
To perform a valid comparison, I suggest using Edmunds to price both cars with similar equipment.
Specifically, my mom bought a used Concorde, so I
was wondering if I might be able to use that fact to get this discount. Does she have to be the original owner? What paperwork does she have to co-sign for me to get the discount?
So the options for those of us who want to have the 300C in a true sports sedan configuration are wait for the SRT ("Chrysler 300 Hemi-C SRT" quite a mouthful, huh?) next year or take the current Hemi-C and try to tweak it there yourself.
Tires - You can at least go up to a 245/55 BFG gforce T/A KDS (another mouthful) to get a decent high performance all seasons. I assume those should still fit (just a tad wider). If you want anything more exotic in way of a true high perf. summer tire as far as I can tell you'd have to go into smaller diameter wheel+tire sizes that mess up the speedo (and who knows what to the suspension).
Wheels - I don't like the look of the too many spoke chrome wheels (and they look to busy & heavy for my taste). Might want 18's with a little wider rims to go w/the 245's anyway (and lose some spokes when you do it if you can). Tire Rack doesn't have any options for it spec'd/posted on their web site yet.
Axle Ratio - As I expected from seeing a "2.82" ratio on the Hemi-C, this is geared much more for mileage than for fast launch (and with the V-8 it still is sub 6!). R&T reports 44 and 72 for 1-2 and 2-3 shift points, C&D slightly higher. Not bad, Much better than the 300M 4 speed, but by my rough calcs if you could get an axle somewhere in the 3.2 range it would bring the shift points down into mid/high 30's and low 60's for better 0-60 acceleration times. The current 5th is so tall now (1800rpm reported at 60mph) that I don't think that change would hurt fuel economy or noise for high speed cruising much.
Speed limiter - As I expected thanks to the touring "H" rated tires the reviewers are reporting the Hemi-C is hobbled by a rev limited somewhere around 130mph. Probably/hopefully somebody will post the wire that has to be cut onto this site at some point.
Suspension upgrades - TBD
Brake upgrades - TBD (at least they are pretty big on the C package)
So I presume that the real SRT team is working on addressing all of these points at once right now - if they do it right -(Chrysler - please, please keep the value pricing in this option too!). I'm hoping that this time it will be aimed for performance & functionality more than looks. For one thing - I'd rather see SRT stay with [different style] 18's with wider/lower profile tires that put it into the heart of the performance tire choices - after all they can alter the speedo! Fill those wheel wells up with Width not height - 20" rims look great on a show car but I've read enough about unsprung weight to think 18" is enough).
Decision - So even though I was itching for the 300 C, I think I want the whole package enough to put in another year with my '99 300M PHP. Consider how well the current 300c does in reviews and specs with those current tires (should be hurting accel., handlng, & braking #'s) - the SRT should really be in the sport sedan and high end luxury sport sedans!
I suppose I should thank Chrysler for keeping me responsible - but I really just want them to hurry up with the SRT so that they can get my money sooner! Although with those 300C ads spinning out and the prospect of seeing some of you in 300C's on the road, I can't be positive I'll be able to hold out for a whole year.
Also, it is an instant rebate deducted from the purchase price by the dealer not a wait for a check from DC deal. In NY you still have to pay sales tax on the full price. 8.75% So you save $1000 not $1087.50.
So although I am eager to take delivery, the week wait may have saved me a grand.
I'm considering getting a spec car that is already on it's way. This one was ordered without U-Connect, the bluetooth hands-free phone thing.
My dealer offers a dealer-installed version. He claims that they are the same, with the exception of where the buttons are positioned. On factory-installed versions, the buttons are at the bottom of the rear-view mirror, while on dealer-installed versions, the buttons come on a "pad", approximately one inch by 3 inches, that can be placed basically anywhere on the dash. Other than this, there is supposedly no difference.
Can anyone confirm or deny this story?
who knows, it might be close
The V6 CTS is slow compared with the 300C, and the CTS-V is far more expensive and equipped with a manual transmission, so the comparison is not as straight-forward as with other cars. Therefore, I'll change my mind and say that the better comparison is between the regular CTS and the 300C. The CTS, equipped in a similar way, is more expensive and slower than the 300C.
By the time you add equipment to even match a 300 Touring, it is well into the 30's. Invoice of a base CTS, plus auto tranny and no other options is over $31K. You may be able to get them under invoice, but $3000 under invoice is a stretch and you still have a pretty stripped, basic model.
If you can go get a new 2004 CTS equipped like 300C for $28K, then you should go ahead and just get it.