Chrysler 300/300C

andre1969

was that the V-6 models would use a 3.89:1 axle, which is the same ratio the current LH cars use, while the Hemi would have the 2.82:1 ratio. that may be outdated info, though.

I had a chance to sit in a base 300 and a 300C over the weekend, but haven't driven one yet. There were a few odds and ends that I didn't like, but overall I was pretty impressed. When I first saw the specs on these cars, which only listed front seat legroom at 41.8", I was worried. I currently drive an '00 Intrepid that's rated at 42.2", and barely fits me. So I figured anything less would be uninhabitable.

With a power seat though, I was able to adjust it to where I was perfectly comfortable, so when it does come time to buy, the 300 will definitely be on my shopping list!

Most of my nitpicks were stuff like the tilt-telescope on the steering wheel of the base model felt clunky and easy to break, too much hard plastic, cheap looking carpet in the base model, etc. For the most part though, stuff I could live with.

jcz1

Okay, I may be the only one, but I am really anti-leather. Not for PETA reasons, though: cold in the winter yet hot in the summer (possibly why many cars have heated/cooled leathers), slippery, easily ripped, prone to cracking/creasing, etc.

Now, my question is: does anyone have any experience/info on mixing/matching between trim lines of a given car? It would seem to me that if they can put cloth seats in the base, they can put them in the C. I'd even live with losing the power passenger seat and the heated seats. Probably even sign a binding offer before the car arrives if I had to, since it might be tough to sell if I were to back out.

Other options I am considering are seat covers (which might not help slipping/sliding around turns), or waiting for the Charger or the rumored SRT version of the 300, in hopes of cloth options.

carnaught

I used to feel the same as you regarding leather, "cold in winter yet hot in summer". I have found that this is truly a myth and that this is not the case. BTW,another myth is that black colored interiors and exteriors are hotter. This has actually been scientifically disproved, although I can't recite the source. Living in the sun-belt I can only relate my personal experience. Once you own leather, you'll appreciate its look, strength, durability, and its (often) aromatic smell.

jameskk1

can anyone verify if the 300C's outside mirrors are chrome?? I've seen pics of the 300C in both configurations... I am about to place deposit on a Magnesium colored one that is due to arrive next week at a local dealer.

andre1969

leather is worse than cloth when it comes to being hot in the summer and cold in the winter, but still not as bad as vinyl! I don't think winter is such a big deal, since if it's that cold I'm going to be bundled up anyway. But in the summer, when I'm wearing shorts and a tank top, or other clothing made out of thin material, that's when the real fun begins!

FWIW though, I've owned two cars with black vinyl interiors...a '68 Dart hardtop and a '67 Pontiac Catalina convertible. Parked out in direct sunlight with the top down, that convertible could be painful, but once you got moving it cooled down fast.

The main reason I don't like leather, though, is that most cars do a poor job of matching the leather on the seats and the vinyl on the side bolsters, seatbacks, etc. And, just like vinyl and cloth, there are different grades of leather. I've actually seen some leather seats that looked cheaper than vinyl seats in other cars!

andre1969

and I sat in a 300C on Saturday. Can't remember if the mirrors were chrome though, sorry. The C I sat in was Magnesium, too, and I think if I were to get one, it'd be a tossup between that or the green.

mnmatches

Any links out there for it?

jameskk1

I am assuming that the C version has a different suspension/drive than the Limited, but looking at the brochure that I have doesn't confirm this.. does anyone know for sure??? I am asking because I drove a 300 Limited over the weekend and loved the car but wasn't impressed with the handling ability.. of course, my present ride is a 2002 BMW 745i. The 300 Limited drove like my mom's Lincoln Towncar. Felt like I was floating on a cloud.

dennis

I called about 12 dealers all of them said ,"should be any day now, April 22 blah blah" Same horse manuer I've been hearing for the last month. Finally found a local dealer that had 2 300 limiteds. I want a C, but went to check out the limited so I can actually see what the real car looks like.

Very nice, even with the different lights, smaller wheels, and smaller engine. Nice and roomy, seats comfortable. This one appeared to be loaded (minus a sunroof). Base price listed was $25 and some change. Get this... After options, a 3-36 maintenance package? ($1250), YTR whatever that is ($369), and a whopping dealer added markup ($4995) the car was listed for nearly $41,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This was for a limited, not a 300C. The sad thing is someone will pay that. If people only would say no, this kind of nonsense would cease. So, for those that are monitoring these boards, JUST SAY NO TO DEALER ADDED MARKUPS

andre1969

and couldn't find anything about a different suspension. I think the Limited is supposed to be the luxury version, though, and tailored more for a pillow-soft ride.

I haven't driven any of them yet, but I'd imagine that, as a rough reference here, the Limited might equate roughly to an '89 Chrysler 5th Avenue, whereas the C would be more like a Gran Fury police pursuit. Same platform, but with enough tweaks to turn it into a totally different beast.

riker2

The 300C I looked at on Saturday had a sticker of $36,000. There weren't any mark-ups. I'd challenge the dealers with big add ons and let them know you'd travel to get a fair price.

307web

No one will pay that $4995 markup etc.. Some dealers do that when they get their first few because they don't really want to sell them. They want to keep a couple on the showroom for demos etc, but will sell them to a crazed idiot if one walks in.

ruski

I have an Acura TL-S with black leather interior in South Florida and haven't had any burns on my legs yet. I don't see a problem.

lotboy

300 will likely be a piece of crap.It's a Chrysler!Plus how is a car like that gonna be made into a Police car?
Classy looking though...

DD

emale

jameskk1,

automags have said the touring and C have the same "stiffer" suspension setup...while the base and limited are softer...

carnaught

I agree with you on black and leather interiors as I previously mentioned.

What do those who've been in the 300C think of the quality of the leather?

lotboy: No need to be a troll. Give the car a chance.

joecanuk

kvilleboy- yes they are mounted on the chrome that is on the fascia. also the HID's look the same as the lights on the non HID 300C cars

jameskk1 - 300C get chrome mirrors and door handles . the other 300's get color keyed

 lotboy- crap??? . Get a life man , the 300 is one mean machine

emale

here is a cut and paste from DC media with the final drive ratios...

TRANSMISSION: FOUR-SPEED AUTOMATIC
Availability Std. with 2.7-liter and 3.5-liter V-6 engines
Description Three planetary gear sets, one overrunning clutch, full electronic control, electronically controlled torque converter clutch
Gear Ratios
1st 2.84
2nd 1.57
3rd 1.00
4th 0.69
Reverse 2.21
Final Drive Ratio 2.7-liter – 3.90, 3.5-liter – 3.64
Overall Top Gear Ratio 2.7-LITER – 2.70, 3.5-LITER – 2.51

TRANSMISSION: FIVE-SPEED AUTOMATIC
Availability Std. – 300C, included with AWD
Description Adaptive electronic control, AutoStick® driver-interactive manual control and electronically modulated torque converter clutch
Gear Ratios
1st 3.59
2nd 2.19
3rd 1.41
4th 1.00
5th 0.83
Reverse 3.17
Final Drive Ratio 2.82
Overall Top Gear 2.34

soozpk

The Hemi C has an extra leaf spring (5), a sway bar, and larger rear brakes than it's lower priced counterparts. As for crooked dealers, any dealership that tries to markup the sticker is an invitation to simply walk out of there.

cougar87

Has anyone read that while the Hemi V8 powered 300Cs will have MB trannys, the 2.7L and 3.5L will have a RWD "version" of the LH transmissions by Chrysler? The LH platform was designed to be easily used for FWD or RWD so this is probobly true. Allpar.com also says that before the merger Chrysler was planning to replace the FWD LH cars with somewhat reworked RWD LHs. If MB hadn't interfered than it would be out in 2002. It certainly makes the Chrysler 300 and 300 Touring more American than their 300C counterparts. It's interesting to see that the company that was quick to switch to FWD, and advertise Cab-Forward design was designing a RWD replacement for their largest cars all the while (almost). If I'm in the market for a replacement for my '94 Cougar XR7, then the 300 Touring will be at the top of my short list.

emale

soozpk,

the 300 does not have leaf springs...coils, yes, but not leafs...

cougar87,

per my earlier post...yes the hemi gets a benz automatic and the v6s get a chrysler automatic.

btw, to anyone interested...here a couple videos about rwd vs fwd:

http://www.dcxmediaservices.com/videoptrs/wms/dctv/Feb04/Fleet_Pa- rticipant_Response_300k.wvx

http://www.dcxmediaservices.com/videoptrs/wms/dctv/Mar04/LX_Tech.- wvx

cougar87

Thanks emale. I didn't have time to read the whole topic with 28.8k dial-up on this computer. Thanks for sharing the videos, when I go on my faster computer I'll have to take a look.

andre1969

I'm pretty sure the 4-speed automatic used in the 2.7 and 3.5 versions of the 300 is the same one the Mopar has been using in Jeep Wranglers and other trucks that use 4-speed automatics.

I'm pretty sure that the truck automatic is completely different than the FWD car/minivan automatic. Now the tranny used in the LH cars can be reconfigured for longitudinal versus transverse mounted engines, but I doubt it's ever been used in any RWD setups.

soozpk

Thanks for the correction, Emale. Somewhere, someplace I read something about the C getting a 5th link on the rear suspension. I assumed they were talking about leaf springs. In the past, they would add an extra leaf to beef it up.

emale

andre,

i can't prove it...but i think the 42RE tranny in the LX cars is more closely related to the 42LE from the LH than it is to the rwd jeep trannies from the past.

soozpk,

the LX suspension if fully independent front and rear. and yes the rear has five links. it is based closely on the e class mercedes suspension but modified for the bigger LX cars...

tayl0rd

The 42LE transmission from the LH cars was used in a RWD setup on the Prowler. Also, don't know if you knew it or not, the 3.5L V6 in the LH cars is mounted North-South/longitudinally. Not sure how the 2.7L is mounted. And, as stated, the LH cars could have been fairly easily reworked to be RWD cars. There's already the "hump" running along the floor and if you look underneath, there's more than enough room to run a driveshaft to the rear (at least, there is in the 300M). The hard part would be reconfiguring the gas tank placement and we probably would have lost a good bit of trunk space as well as the option to have a full size spare. Other than that, the LH cars could've been RWD; or better yet, AWD.

mnmatches

lotboy would be peddling the 300 like his life depended on it if there was a MB Emblem on the car instead.

One thing that worries me a little is the V8 MDS engine. Does it actually shut down two and four cylinders, or does it go from eight to four only? Does it alternate which cylinders get sut off? And after a LOT of highway driving, wouldn't you have more wear and tear on just half of your engine?

microrepair

at a different dealer this morning. This was a very short test drive as the car has been sold but the new owner agreed to let folks take "Very" short rides; mine was just a little over a mile. But this one did handle the pavement cracks and bumps somwhat better than the one I drove last week. The first one must have had way too much pressure in the tires. And the steering wasn't as jiggly either. Today's car was the Jade green and it is a really nice color; the website and the brochure do a terrible job at showing the true colors. I am impressed with the amount of room inside these cars and the smoothness of the drive train and the solid feeling of the brakes and suspension (except for the thud over large bumps). I still want to see the difference in a Limited version.

jbbw20

Borrowed from post 1195 "it is based closely on the e class mercedes". To improve overall reliability/quality the more "mercedes" parts used the better the outcome will be. First impressions show the Daimler influence, who knows maybe finally the Chrysler product will begin to improve.

barneym

I caught the Speed Channel test drive program and it was really worth checking out if you have the time. There were three segments to the half hour show.

The first segment shows lots of video of the car in motion and just gives the basics about the car which should be familiar to most readers of this board. They have a guy from Chrysler marketing as the guest.

The second segment was the best part. The host of the show and a member of the Dodge Viper racing team take a pair of 300C's and really put them through their paces on a closed test track. They are just having fun pushing the cars to their limits around turns and mock racking each other. Halfway through the test drive they turn off the ESP and start drafting through turns and leaving patches at every corner. At one point the host goes into a corner too fast and can't keep it on the course and ends up on the grass.

The last segment didn't really provide much info. They turn the keys over to a writer for Road & Track and he talks about what he likes and doesn't like about the car and it's impact / acceptance within the market. Overall the guy liked it and kept praising it's value.

As far as information goes, the only new thing I learned was that the air ducts on the front bumper are functional as cooling ducts for the front disc brakes. Again, the best part was the middle segment where they get to test the cars in such a way that few of us have the opportunity to do, much less would be willing to do, to a car that we personally own.

hmk123

I originally wanted to wait until September or so but the 300C is too exciting. Although I have not test driven one, I am eager to get one and trade in my 300M. I think I will give the Costco guy of my Chrysler dealer a call this afternoon and see what deal I can get on a fully loaded 300C. So a good price would be something around invoice? What are people paying for extended warranties/service programs?

307web

Yes, invoice would be a good price, but since the car just came out they won't sell that cheaply. If you want to pay invoice, you will need to wait months.

barneym

I really really want a new 300C, but I keep wondering if it is worth the price premium over the Dodge Magnum R/T. I get the feeling there is a lot less buzz about the Magnum. The Town Hall message board for the Magnum is at a paltry 230 some odd messages and here we are at 1200+. I think the fact that it is essentially a station wagon has cooled a lot of interest. This gives me the impression that by Fall/Winter of this year the Magnum will be heavily rebated and quite affordable. Anyone else out there debating between the two?

micweb

The report I read indicates the car runs under either 4, or 8, cylinders. The cylinders out of commisssion are deactivated by interrupting the fluid flow to the hydraulic valve lifters - closing down those cylinders. The pistons keep moving, so wear is probably balanced (although when shut down the load levels are obviously differenct on the rings and bearings). Presumably the fuel injection also deactivates to the inactive cylinders.

Not a single reporter has been able to note activation / deactivation, pretty amazing considering that the reporters (in general) complained about the poor "feel" of the electric steering in the Saturn Ion series (reporters notice these things).

mnmatches

Thanks. My wife is a little on edge about introductory technology because of our current 02 Exploders history. I guess I probably heard about the V8-6-4 in another posting that was referring to an older tech.

cougar87

You mean a Caddy V8-V6-V4??

dale48

Today my dealer faxed over my vehicle shipment status and history from 4/7 and 4/13. He was expecting to deliver my 300c to me tomorrow. The 4/7 report shows the being delivered to the dealer on 4/12 and the 4/13 report says its going to be unloaded from a railcar in NJ today and delivered 4/19 to the dealer.
He promises me he will check each day and if its in NJ he will get it to Long Island the next day.
Oh well its raining today anyway.
Has anyone taken delivery of a 300c yet?

mnmatches

I do believe that's the one!

andre1969

yeah, I know the engines in the LH cars all have longitudinal engines. I just worded that a little confusingly, I guess. What I meant to say was that the same basic tranny can be configured for both longitudinal and transverse applications, as it's the same tranny that's used in the minivans and other applications. They just call it 42RE versue 42LE. It all dates back to that Ultradrive 604 or whatever it was called that they started using in Die-Nasties and NYers back in '89.

I didn't realize that the same tranny was used in the Prowler, though.

lotboy

No really,this car is something else!I am glad to see a car company be brave and take a chance and reintroduce the RWD idea.Chrysler is pretty cool that way.They have some unique vehicles and are do for a prosperous turn around.I hope they bring back the Charger one day too!
I see a ton of these cars everyday go by on convoy from Brampton Ontario Canada.These cars look to have class and power.To me,this kind of makes the Mercury Marauder stale.Marauders are nice too but these are too different cars as far as options go.
Anyhow,it'll be nice to see the big 3 get some attention again as far as their "car" lines go.
Have a good night guys!

DD

emale

mnmatches,

i read an article (can't remember where) about the MDS...and indeed it is either 4 or 8 cylinders that operate. nothing in between. and it's always the same four cylinders that "shut down". an engineer was quoted as saying wear differences between all eight cylinders only showed up around or after 150k miles...and that the differences were very small.

andre1969

to deactivate the cylinder deactivation? Or is it automatic? With Caddy's old V-8-6-4, if the thing started acting up you could just disable it, and the end result was a reliable, torquey, if low-hp V-8.

emale

andre,

i would imagine there is a way to do it...but why would you want to?

seminole_kev

ask those caddy owners why they wanted to disable it! ;-)

dennis

picked up the may issue of car and driver and road and track. Amazing performance.... C/D got 13.9 @102mph in the quarter, R/T got 14.1 @101mph. These numbers equal or best a lot of cars such as a Porsche Boxster, 350Z, Mustang, etc...Not bad for a luxury sedan that weighs 4150lbs. Just don't meet these cars on a twisty road, heehee. 0-60mph in only 5.3 seconds, truly amazing. These numbers are right on par with my "old" 2001 Ford Lightning with 380hp.

bim1

I inherited infamous '81 Fleetwood with V8/6/4 back in 1990. I disabled modular engine feature because of v6 part. Remember this was 90 degree V8. What happens when you run it as v6? Right, terrible vibration. The engine did not run in V6 mode much. But you feel it every time it went through V6. V8 and V4 were fine although power reduction in V4 was quite dramatic. But the engine and tranny was bullet proof. Did not have to add any oil between old changes till 150,000 miles. But other parts, expecially electrical parts were causing so much headache I had to sell it. If it were just V8/4 without V6 mode, it would have been much much better. What were Cadicallc engineers thinking, or smoking???

Ben

mnmatches

Just got my R&T mag today and was delighted to see that they spiffed me a 65 page supplement on the 300. It details EVERYTHING about the cars heritage, design, and inside story, power train, a road test, and additional info on the Touring and other V6 models (it focuses on the 300c). I haven't had a chance to read the entire thing yet, but I'm eagerly anticipating my next chance!

It must have been written by Chrysler themselves because in the "book" it describes the trunk as "cavernous" with 15.6 cubic feet of space. This seems to be the polar opposite of what most others are saying about it. In contrast I believe that the Ford 500 advertises 25 cubic feet of trunk space.

b4z

C&D is famnous for testing "ringers" from manufacturers. cars that have had their engines balanced and blueprinted and who knows what else.

C&D History:
1993 Z28 Camaro LT1 engine with 275 hp. 0-60 in 5.0 secs. No other Z28 from 1993-2002 including the 335 hp SS pulled a 5.0 0-60 time.

1994 Impala SS LT1 260 hp. 0-60 in 6.5 secs.
No other '94-96 mpala SS ever recorded this time.

I would guess that most 300Cs will be around 5.8-6.0 secs.

emale

b4z,

who cares? my butt can't tell the difference between 5.3 and 5.8...lol!

mnmatches

I totally agree with with emale... The numbers only tell me that I COULD take on cars x,y,z but that doesn't mean I will. I'm totally content with dropping the hammer and passing the left lane slow poke, or using an on-ramp like it was a launching pad. There's also the benefit of lighting up the tires in front of other non-believers. (I've got a co-worker that thinks the 300c will launch like a turd)