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Comments
but i guess in GM world (not GM itself, but their loyal fans) everything is a success and golden with their newest sedans despite the evidence to the contrary. sorry, a coarse sounding engine mated to a 4 speed automatic doesn't cut it for a near luxury car.
I do not consider a $28,000 car near luxury (CXL).
I do agree though that at least the 3.6L at $33K deserves and should have at least a 5 spd. It would also be great if all the cars had at least 5 speeds.
the competition in the $30K plus or minus sedan market is fierce. both the lower and higher end models of the lacrosse face formidable competition.
the new passat will be coming out this fall, the new camry will be out in a year or so, the accord a year after that. yes, the lacrosee will see improvements but so will the competition.
Seemed a bit silly to me, reminding me of when Ford tried to compare a Grenada to a Mercedes Benz!
Where did I imply or say that? I don't think anyone is too excited about the LaCrosse either. For most it's an appliance also. I merely sid no one was really waiting for the next Camry.
As for Hyundais, all car makers should worry about them, not just GM.
The 2003 and 2004 Saturn ION used a 5 speed auto.
~alpha
Lutz and Buick would like to see their vehicles earn back where they were 40 years ago as the affordable luxury division. They have some work to do it. Lutz, if you notice, just lost some responsibilities. Perhaps his comment had something to do with it?
Funny, just today my father in law commented how he loved the 3.8L but now has an Impala with the new 3.4 and could not believe the 23 mpg in the city he was getting. Again, he was completely satisfied with the noise level of the OHV engines. But he rarely puts his foot into it which is where the noise really comes out.
But according to this board there still is light at the end of the tunnel, at least people talk with passion about LaCrosse. Unlike G6 it has a right V6 engine and no electric steering!
The LaCrosse is also of great interest as it is one of the first cars that Mr. Lutz had much influence on, for good or ill...
Notice the "complaints" on this board are mainly lack of content (5 spd, navigation, SIAB, power front seat recliners) which the program team really had no power over. Styling was also an issue with some feeling too conserative. Again a carryover platform controls dimensions like front overhang and interior efficiency.
But the team did put together the best fitting interior so far at GM. Also exterior fit and finish is the best. Dimensional contol meets and exceeds Toyota Camry's. It is one of the quietest cars in the world even with the old tech 3.8L. Quality should carryon the best in the midsize market like the Century and Regal. It has a very comfortable ride and handles well.
Why is there so much of an issue about the transmission? I agree that most people don't know or care whether it is 4 or 5 speeds. Also, few people actually need the Navigation System unless they are traveling to an unknown site. I would like to see stability control on the CXL as an option.
The remote start is a BIG deal on the LaCrosse. Whether you are in a cold or warm climate, how nice to be able to stand inside and start your car and let it heat or cool to your comfort.
Edmunds recent comparison of LaCrosse, Ford 500, Avalon and Chrysler 300 failed to note LaCrosse's remote start, failed to note Avalon's lack of a split folding rear seat, and failed to make much of the Chrysler's restricted viewing which is really bad. Also, I find the LaCrosse much more attractive than the boxy Chrysler.
No one has posted a review of the LaCrosse since January. It makes me wonder if they are selling well at all.
Century and Regal combined sold 8940 in March 04.
It's selling better now.
Remote start is a great feature, I think it's standard on the Allure CXS up here.
Oh yeah it is 62 vette. Nice red one:)
Up in that cold country remote start should be standard on everything. Now in mid america it probably not that needed but would be nice. And down in the hot south it should also be standard. That is one problem with US. Conditions vary so much, hard to decide what should be optional and what should be standard.
Soon to be standard on all GM vehicles. Needs to be developed for each vehicle/ engine/suspension variation. I would not expect it could be ready for the LaCrosse until 2007?
Expect about the same on a LaCrosse.
It isn't selling that well for a reason.
Bit tongue in cheek here but why is there no press on the fall of these Lexus cars? They are not that old.
The LaCrosse is a brand new model that isn't meeting expectations.
According to you and a few members of the press perhaps.
What is the current offer on the LaCrosse? I believe its $1500 cash back. In NY, thats $750 more than the Camry offers, and the same as the 4 year old Altima.
Yes, the LaCrosse is outselling the Century and Regal of last year combined. But should it not, as a brand new model, outsell vehicles which first debuted in 1997? LaCrosse also lagged behind Five Hundred and Avalon sales (Avalon's second full month, I believe).
~alpha
Also keep in mind that since 2001, people's mind sets are now that GM will offer incentives and that kind of thinking will keep buyers at bay until they see better rates and/or cash on the hood.
I think the press and some people on this board want to see GM fail and love to write about it these days. It's kind of in fashion I suppose, but I think it takes more than a few months to determine whether a car is a flop.
"Also keep in mind that since 2001, people's mind sets are now that GM will offer incentives and that kind of thinking will keep buyers at bay until they see better rates and/or cash on the hood."
This mind-set can be changed with strong products like that which Cadillac puts out (huge rebates only on the overpriced and aging Escalade and DeVilles, marginal rebates on the CTS and SRX, and basically nothing on the new STS). Or take Chrysler, with its 300 series. Chrysler continues to stuff the trunks of PT Cruisers, Neons, Durangos, etc... with cash. BUT the 300 has the hardware that consumers want, and the rebates arent prevalent. Its not a valid exucse anymore.
My point: you can make all the excuses you want about the LaCrosse having a new name, expected rebates, or whatever, its simply not the potential success it could have been.
GM is capable of great products, we've seen this with Cadillac. Continually churning out cars that win neither the hearts/sales from consumers or praise in the press is not going to help matters. I had high hopes for the LaCrosse, but GM cant hide what it is- a signficant upgrade of an old design that has a great engine in but its highest price trim level.
~alpha
As for excuses, I'm not making any. No it's not "hot" like CTS or 300 but unless a car is hot product, even a real good car can take time get sales numbers up. You simply can not say a car is flop based on a few months of data. If sales are not good after a year, I will agree with you.
The LaCrosse seemed to get off to a slow start but has been improving. I still think that the 3.6 should be the only engine. Yes, I know it costs more - so what! Maybe the incentives could be scaled back to offset the additional cost. It would really help the LaCrosse stand out.
The 3.6 would have really made the LaCrosse an attractive alternative to the Camcords.
The Intrigue with the 3.5 was one of my favorite cars in its time.
All I am saying is that the LaCrosse with the 3.6 as standard would likely sell better than the current offering.
Imagine the LaCrosse and the G6 having the 3.6 as standard - the press would have loved it (of course they would find other issues, they are still domestic vehicles).
The CX would be ok with a 3.8L as an entry level Buick but the CXL and CXS should all have the 3.6L, I agree. Sales are picking up and I see them on the road quite regularly now which will help.
V6 CAMCORDs are only about 25% of their volume. They have a 4 cyl. for base and 75% of volume. A 4 cylinder in the LaCrosse did not have enough power for a Buick.
There are a lot of customers out there who love the 3.8 and they are not all over 50. Many 30 and 40 year olds have also grown up with the reliable 3.8 V6. It gets good gas mileage and as long as you are a normal driver is quiet enough unless you really floor it.
Buick offers a CAMCORD price point with a V6 vs. their 4.
The Intrigue and therefore Olds died because they told there loyal base that they were not for them anymore and had to over price because they did go to the expensive DOHC V6 as standard. Buick is not making that mistake. They still are building cars that older folks love. But, younger folks love the car too if they give it a chance and that is the problem. Getting 40 year olds to try the car. (notice I did not say 30 year olds)
Volume of both the LaCrosse and the G6 will depend on price. In looking above at the comments the LaCrosse is overpriced. Add another $1500 to the CX and see wha the comments would be. Sure many would say great because they want the DOHC but many would walk away because of the higher price.
Both have the same option packages except for the CXL unavailable stabilitrak which is coming to the CXL.
Suppose you could release the CXL with 3.6 w/o 17's and suspension, but why? FAr as I am concerned the car needs 17's to make it look Nice.
My thinking is, if the CXL had a 3.6L then I could buy without leather as I don't care for it. It could delete a few other things also and save me some $$. I guess in the end it doesn't matter much, I think the 3.8L CX to compete with the 4 banger Camcords of the world makes sense.
The LaCrosse CX is almost a dead match in terms of price against the Camry LE V6, and Accord LX V6. AND (!), the LaCrosse lacks several of the standards on those models such as (I'm talking Camry here) steering wheel audio controls, ABS, alloy wheels, 10 way-power adjustable driver's seat, electroluminescent instrumentation, etc.
Including Destination:
LaCrosse CX (no options): $23,495
Camry LE V6 (no options): $23,070
Accord LX V6 (no options available): $24,465 (the Accord is priced higher owing to further standards above the LaCrosse CX and Camry LE V6, such as traction control, side curtain airbags, and 6 disc in dash CD changer).
~alpha