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Comments
Base Buick Allure is MSRP C$25290 here.
Pretty darn close. Camry has rear drums and neither have ABS. Allure has a nice 3800, Camry has a 157 4 banger.
Pretty easy choice IMO and I'm not factoring in any incentives.
I dont see how the Camry XLE 4 is close in content to a LaCrosse CX. They are close in price, but not content.
To recap, the Camry XLE has that LaCrosse CX does not:
60/40 Split Folding Rear Seat
Steering wheel audio controls
Auto Dimming Rearview Mirror
JBL 6 disc in dash CD changer
Automatic climate control
Anti-Lock Brakes
10 Way Power Drivers Seat
Power Passenger Seat (4-Way)
Trip Computer
Homelink
Cargo Net
Rear Sunshade
Heated Outside Mirrors
Fog Lights
Anti-theft system with engine immobilizer and alarm
The LaCrosse CX has that the Camry XLE does not:
Floormats
OnStar
And sure, you'll get more power in the LaCrosse, but according to the EPA figures, you'll also give up 4 miles per gallon.
You can make up whatever you want, but a LaCrosse CX is most closely compared to a Camry LE V6 based on pricing and content. The Camry XLE 4 provides far more features, but not a V6. Why not try and make the closest comparison?
~alpha
Let me try again to satisfy you using the same info. Again if you have more a accurate process let me know. I am only trying to get in the ballpark.
LaCrosse CX $22,835 Camry XLE 4 $22545
I did a standard content study of the two.
LaCrosse on positive side-V6, 200 hp, 225 tires ($50 for increased width), floor mats($150), OnStar($400), (about $600 worth of content not including the engine)
Camry-4, 160 hp, 5 spd, 215 tires, stg audio controls($100), UGDO($100), electrochromic ISRVM($50), ABS($400), 6CD($100), dual auto HVAC($300), rear sunshade($50), split folding rear seat($125), power driver seat back($50), 4 way power passenger($250), heated exterior mirrors($50) (about $1550 worth of content not including powertrain)
So Camry has about $950 more content than LaCrosse ( I am sure I missed a few items either way). So Camry is priced about $1150 less than a LaCrosse (22835-22545+950).
But then you have to price the V6 with 40 more hp. against a 5 spd vs. 4 spd. The V6 is priced at about $1500 on the Camry and Accord. Lets give half that to the Lacrosse for the old 3.8 and take away another $150 for the 4spd. ($750-150=600)
So the LaCrosse is about $550 (600-1150) more than the Camry w/o incentives taken into account.
Now the LE is about $2000 cheaper than the XLE. Why? the XLE has a nicer interior as I felt the CX does. (wood, soft door trim, soft IP, etc.) The LE has 15" wheels and smaller tires. LE has rear drum brakes, rear sunshade is optional, seatback storage is not on the LE, electrochromic is not available, no wood in the interior of the LE. Overall the interior on the CX is nicer than the LE. The console integrates into the IP, soft surfaces thruout the interior. Either way the pricing is not too far out of line, especially if you include incentives.
What did you think about the seat materials? Similar to each other?
thanks
Now when you think about how much more depreciation the Buick will have in 3 or 4 years, the ownership cost is outrageous compared to an Accord.
$1500 cash back in not enough.
The price of the LaCrosse is high even for people willing to throw a blind eye towards depreciation so it's not as if the LaCrosse saves you any money if you ignore resale like you can with a Malibu or Taurus.
On price, the LaCrosse loses both in initial price and net cost after resale.
When I'm using the torque in my 3800s and I get on it enough to make noise, I don't care what it sounds like because I'm wanting to move quickly (rare occurance).
I don't recall any lack of engine noise from the Accord I test drove. I think this OHV vs OHC stuff is bunk.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Buick camshaft is driven by a chain. The Camry uses a belt which must be changed per the manual or you risk the valves hitting the pistons. The Camry five speed transmission likes to upshift, but hates to downshift. You can minimize the problem by driving in third or fourth gear in city drving, but why should you have to?
It sounds like the Toyota and Honda dealers still are adding on extra cost in the form of documentation fees or dealer charge in the hundreds of dollars. I have never had a GM dealer do that after having negotiated the price for a car. I had a $20 documentation fee for title handling added (they run them to the auditor in the next county).
So the delivered price is going to be different. I read the Honda Prices paid discussion and have resubscribed to Camry discussions just to see all the problems they have with their cars. That's my source of info other than friends who purchase foreign cars and discuss their dealer experience.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Oh, this is heavier than a LaCrosse and not nearly as aerodynamic -- It's a LeSabre. Now starting and stopping and small town stoplights drops that mileage. I tested a 20 mile portion on rural highway through two small towns with 2-6 stoplights andd got 35 at 55 mph.
No winds today either. Now tell me why I'd want an ugly, smaller Camry 4 cylinder or the bathtub-styled Accord 4 or 6 when the OHV 3800 does this.
I'd buy a LaCrosse with 3800 and it probably has more than adequate power. If I want to hot rod I'd look at the 3.6.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not that it really matters but an accord 3.0 will smoke most cars with a 3800. It's just a fact. To much hp with the gearing to back it up. I had a '03 Lesabre rental (had about 10k miles)with the 3800 and my best friend has an 03 Accord EX v6. He was sitting their poking fun at the Lesabre and I was telling him it had pretty good punch. Now before anyone flames me, please under stand he lives out in the middle of no where in Indiana. We took the two cars out on a straight country road where you can see for miles down the road, and line up and to see what they would do. After about 25 it wasn't even close the Accord just flat out hauled @$$.
Don't do much drag racing myself. So a drag racing suited motor doesn't appeal to me. But to each his own. Suspect the Accord weighed less too.
>I'd recommend checking your trip computer vs. a hand calculation.
Already been done. On the trip back from Sevierville TN checked at fillup and was within 0.2. Got home within 0.3. Error probably comes from filling the tank differently at different pumps. I'd like to do that over 3 tanks or more. Think I'll set the trip odo and fillup tomorrow morning since it's $1.97 for name brands.
Just drove 18 miles each way part interstate and part side roads and mall traffic and got 28.
I found this in a Camry discussion just posted:
"I have a 2004 Camry SE 4cyl. I usually get between 22 to 24 mpg. On the highway (usually cruising between 68-72 mph), I usually get 35 to 37 mpg."
Even my wife and short trips gets 22-24 lately. She's a little heavy on the gas and doesn't coast to stop signs.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think the problem with comparing Camcords to LaCrosse is the lack of a 4 banger which makes it more difficulty. Fact is, on the base side, the CX is priced about the same as base Camcords but the options are all mixed up different.
In the end I think the LaCrosse is a great value on the low end and people looking and hopefully testing also, will see the value over time and sales will keep rising.
If I get a chance I will do a XLE V6 to CXS comparision.
i don't think it's a matter of not noticing but more to do with many GM loyalists being in denial.
I listen to my neighbor's three 3.5 RLs when they start down the street. Sounds pretty noisy to me. Sounds different than out 3800s but still makes a noise that is not pretty.
Come on. Loyalists to a dogma are those hating GM and anything they do. Loyalists are those who want GM to match exactly their own ideal image of a car and then nitpick details that just aren't good enough. No matter what GM would do, it would never be quite right.
GM seems to be hitting between other cars with the LaCrosse.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
i'm not sure what you mean by that statement. please clarify.
Yes, the 3800 is a great engine. No, most buyers don't care if it is DOHC or OHV or even know what that means.
And yes, I agree, safety should be standard, not a hard to get and fairly expensive option....
buyers may not know what kind of engine they have under the hood but they can sure feel and hear the difference between a OHC and OHV. and they do care about that!
>difference between a OHC and OHV
Some of us don't car about the difference between an OHC and a OHV , we just know what we like.
We all get your point: You like an OHC and think everyone else should. Several seem to be happy with the OHV. It's easy just to decide we disagree.
Now back to the LaCrosse.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Problem is most safety features do cost money and no company should be expected to make all safety features standard. No company will add features and not charge for them. GM is making curtain air bags standard with all other makers in the next few years. They need to be designed into new vehicles. Very hard to retrofit old designs. Once all makes have them the field will be level but some more customers will be priced out.
It can be a disadvantage to put the safety items in due to price. Not everyone wants to pay for them. Competition, customer desire and the government will phase in features. Now GM has decided to make a very expensive stabilitrak and OnStar standard on all vehicles because they are a huge + for safety. Stabilitrak will finally do something about the driver that could never be controlled before. It will save lives and customers will want it. This will sell more GM cars. OnStar is a great feature for after the accident. GM is installing it because it is a feature the other companies do not have yet (but some are getting there).
Meanwhile, Honda is making side airbags standard in every car it makes. Others are making the equivalent of Stabilitrak standard on many cars (Hyundai is rapidly moving in that direction). GM is too--so I suspect the side air bags optional thing is a supplier issue.
GM is also going the other direction, making ABS optional and charging for it.
No, nothing is free. Standard equipment does mean every buyer pays. But in mass production, the cost goes down. Options make things very expensive in the long run, as complexity of production configurations increases.
That all being sad, the level of equipment on base LaCrosses is NOT what it should be compared to the competition.
There is a reason, actually many reasons, GM market share is decreasing so quickly. What is so sad about LaCrosse, at least to me, is that this is the car Mr. Lutz trumpeted as competing with the Lexus 330. He laid down that guantlet, not us. So comparisons against that car are not only fair, they were invited.
Then again, Mr. Lutz has been "promoted," or, more properly, kicked upstairs.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As for ABS, GM did make it standard on all vehicles but when no one else followed they realized their cars were at a cost disadvantage. Some new models like the Uplander have standard ABS and some base model cars do not (G6/LaCrosse). I do think it should be standard but I guess some people do not like it either so by making it optional on base models, people who don't like it are happy and it keeps MSRPs down a little. FYI Base Corollas and Civics do not have ABS either.
I'm always amazed when some posters make blanket statements about how wonderful the other companies are and how awful GM is about things -- ABS and curtain airbags, e.g.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Those keypads are garbage. It is easier for a thief to get in your car all he has to do is watch what numbers you push.
Did Lutz ever actually specifically compare the LaCrosse to the 330? Just curious if anyone has ever seen that in print, quote?? A lot of people (including myself) say that. However, I never or do not remember actually seeing it.
I think GM was targeting 150,000 -200,000 sales volume. I would consider that a success.
Now Lutz did make the comment and the future hopefully will raise the bar for Buick but it will take an all new design to meet Lexus head on. But there are many attributes where Buick is as good as Lexus-quality is about the same, quiet and comfort is even, Ride and handling is about the same. Engine is about the same. These are features that were able to be revised in time for production to give Buick some Lexus attributes.
Yes ABS will be standard as will curtain air bags. ABS with Stabilitrak and Curtains by the fact that all manufacturers have agreed to make them standard. Honda decided to make them standard ahead of schedule and used it for PR. As GM used Stabilitrak for it's PR.
OnStar is a wonderful feature. You may never need it but it has saved lives. Once an accident occurs the sooner you get help the bettter.
Do you work for GM?
I was thinking around 150k was the sales target. That would cover Century and Regal sales, roughly.
I think Buick is Lexus on a budget. Caddy competes with Lexus directly. Buick is near Luxury, not Luxury IMO.