2005 Kia Spectra/Cerato

yugoboy

Easy with your propaganda, the koreans are making huge strides in quality, the old "just buy a civic, corolla" cannot be applied anymore, i dont think you will need to wait the 4 years to make the jump..... IMHO



check it out

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/040429-1.htm

backy

Since this isn't a comparison board, I hesitate to jump into a comparison discussion, but I have to disagree that the Mazda3i is the "best car for the money out there" at $17k discounted price--not when loaded Elantra GTs go for ab0out $13k + T&L. Once the newness of the Spectras wears off and the discounts and rebates come, they will be quite a value compared to the 3i also.

ateixeira

It's not the no-brainer some people think it is, crash test scores are very disappointing for instance.

When will the Kia get tested?

-juice

iluvmysephia1

the market, sell for a while, and wait and see how much of a rebate and what kind of incentives Kia will offer Americans to buy it. I sure like a lot of what Kia has done with this new Spectra. Remember, as my nickname implies, I loved my '99 Sephia and this new Spectra simply offers way more feature and build content than my Sephia had in it. I bought my '99 Sephia with a $2,000 manufacturer's rebate in only the spring of '99. Didn't take long for a healthy rebate to hit dealer lots on Sephia. Still have a great impression of that car and we love our '01 Sportage 4x4 as well. It's all South Korean for this Missourian!

alpha01

Are you talking about the Mazda 3 or the Hyundai Elantra when you say this "It's not the no-brainer some people think it is, crash test scores are very disappointing for instance"?

backy- for those who have the extra 2 or 3 grand to spend, you're getting a lot more car with the Mazda 3i. More pep, more room, better handling, better styling (subjective), better safety, better ride, better fuel economy, greater resale, better range of colors and options. Mazda hit it out of the ballpark. The Hyundai is also an excellent offering at the price, but in terms of an overall package, the Mazda is in a league of its own.

~alpha

ateixeira

Mazda3, it got 4/4/3/3 stars from NHTSA in their ratings. Nowadays quadruple 5 stars is almost universal, so that's poor for a new model.

Link:

http://nhtsa.gov/NCAP/Cars/2004Cmpt.html

Elantra scores better (5/4/5/4), FWIW.

Mazda6 got a similarly warm reception but it has big rebates now, $2000 IIRC. So if you buy a Mazda3 sans rebate, and later on Mazda piles on incentives, resale might not match your expectations.

I haven't driven one, but I do like the Volvo S40.

-juice

alpha01

4 or 5 stars in the goverment's frontal impact make little difference to me, both are very good performances. The Elantra's offset rating is Poor, which I find more troubling. The Mazda 3 tested in the side impact did not have optional side curtains/chest airbag combo, which IMO is the only way to buy a MY 2004 or 2005 vehicle. Happily, one of the major pluses of the new Spectra is its standard side impact protection.

About resale- the Mazda 3 competes better in its segment than does the 6. Once it starts getting the press it deserves (i.e.... probably the Top Rating for all cars in the segment, which is coming in the August issue of Consumer Reports), I think sales will pick up, which would mitigate the rebate issue. Its almost scary the pull that CR has over everyday consumers.

Its too bad that I dont think the new Spectra will have been available in time for that report- CR logs about 6000 miles on their test cars before publishing. For the August report, the Scion xB and xA will also be rated, as will the unimpressive (IMO) Suzuki Forenza. Skip that offering and just get a Specrra!

~alpha

ateixeira

As long as Mazda6 prices don't get too close, the 3 should be OK then.

NHTSA only tests the cheapest model, hence no side curtains on the one tested. They will re-test only if the manufacturer donates the car, Mazda must have chosen not to.

I don't doubt it would do far better with them.

-juice

alpha01

Youre confusing the NHTSA with the IIHS, whose policy is as you describe:

"NHTSA only tests the cheapest model, hence no side curtains on the one tested. They will re-test only if the manufacturer donates the car, Mazda must have chosen not to."

NHTSA has little rhyme or reason as to which trim lines they test.

~alpha

ateixeira

Oops, my bad. Maybe they just test whatever they can get a hold of?

Back to Kia, making them standard was smart. In the past crash tests haven't been a strength, not they might just be an advantage.

-juice

iluvmysephia1

Forenza? That is the Daewoo Lacetti badged to be a Suzuki Forenza, selling for around $12,500 pretty well equipped, and it is also the car Daewoo designed mostly with new gear to replace thier Nubira model. Is it poor gas mileage you don't like, cheap interior, or what? I may have read your report on it before but I can't remember your reasoning on it. Did you see it at an auto show somewhere recently? Looks-wise it seems fine to me but I haven't gone to any specific threads to read about what people are digging or complaining about Forenza on.

backy

That's what this board seems to be turning into lately... and we actually have a "Low-End Sedans" board to compare all these cars!

I think the 3 is an excellent small car, especially in 3s guise. But when a person could spend $4000 less compared to the 3i sedan and get a sedan or hatchback with power everything, moonroof, ABS/traction, leather, Kenwood MP3 stereo, alloys w/Michelins, SABs, a great balance of ride and handling, the best seat adjuster in the industry (per C/D), proven "above average" reliability (per CR), and a longer warranty to boot, with only 10 horses less than the 3, I think that's a compelling bargain. As for IIHS ratings, we'll have to wait until they release the scores for the 3 and for the '04 Elantra--I suspect they'll do that at the same time, since they usually release test results of like-class cars together.

I just got back from an out of town trip where Hertz gave me a Corolla. I could not wait to get out of that car! The seating position is terrible, the HVAC knobs feel cheap, and the ride, though smooth, is too bouncy for my taste. And I missed the little niceties like map lights, sunglasses holder, and a softly padded center arm rest. Compared to the new Spectra, the Spectra is the better car overall IMO. The ride is better, the interior styling a little bolder (same boring color palette as the Corolla though), brakes far superior (4-wheel discs vs. the groaning of the Corolla's brakes), standard side curtains, peppier engine, and more room inside. Much better driving position too (although not as good as the Elantra's). A better looking car also, IMO--more flair than the Corolla's "don't offend anyone" lines. Once Kia gets their quality reputation up a notch, Toyota should be worried. They already have Hyundai breathing down their necks on quality and reliability, now Kia is starting to make some fine cars.

alpha01

ive posted a response to recent comments in the board which you correctly recognize should contain this discussion.

~alpha

jimjps

I think we have to wait until someone drives a new Spectra5. I drove the Mazda3 Hatch and it is very good indeed, probably even the current benchmark, but not perfect. The gearing is one problem, revving too fast on the highway, and the styling is a personal thing, I think it will not look that good in a few years, and why didn't they give it traction control like the Spectra5 and you have to really pay if you want SAC. It may very well be in another league but I am going to wait and drive the Spectra5.

orangelebaron

The Elantra had some changes and did better in the NHTSA tests for 2004. It got 5 stars for the frontal. The Mazda 3 got 4 stars which is disappointing because Volvo supposedly helped out with design and with all the technology that is available today, the HIC numbers should have been as low as Honda and Toyota's numbers.
Anyway...the 3 is a great car to drive... but after the initial excitement is over you will realize it is not perfect. The drivers bottom cushion has no angle adjustment and when you raise the seat, it sort of feels like it's tipping you forward. The tires will cost you an arm to replace and the 3 is not available with normal wheels/tires unless you get the base model i sedan. According to the maintenance forum, people are having not-so-minor problems already.

backy

Actually the '04 Elantra got the same NHTSA scores in terms of stars that it got for the '01 model.

As for the 3's seat height adjuster, for one thing it is optional on the 3i. The other thing is that Kia made a big mistake IMO and did the same thing with the new Spectra that Mazda did with the 3--went with a single-lever seat height adjuster instead of the dual-knob arrangement that they used on the previous models (the Protege for Mazda). Why they went with an inferior design on these new models, which has the drawback you mentioned, is beyond me--unless it's a cost-cutting move. But if Hyundai/Kia can afford to use the dual-knob adjuster on inexpensive cars like the Accent and Rio, I can't see where cost would be much of an issue. The 3's driving position is tolerable for me, but the new Spectra's is not--which is too bad for me because otherwise it's a fine small car.

psrock

Actually yugoboy, it's noy propaganda. I sold Kias for 2 years and I can tell you they have a long way to go. Are they on the right track track?? Absolutely; light years ahead of most domestic competition already. Initial quality is definitely on par with Japanese brands. Long term is awful right now. Vans start to thunder over small bumps,and the whole Van rattles after around 20,000 miles.
Rios and Spectras depreciate like a bat out of hell. Sorentos get God Awful gas mileage, and have a serious problem shifting into 4x4 on a slope. Better than some, yes. Better than Toyota or Honda??? Not even in the same league

Kirstie_H

Correct, correct... it's difficult to discuss an upcoming vehicle when there's not a bunch of new info coming out, but let's do try and stay focuse on the new Kias rather than delving into comparisons. Thanks for the helpful info, backy.

orangelebaron

Backy... I just looked at the Kia website and the features for the new spectra do say "8 way adjustable seat."
http://www.kiaspectra.com/site.html

Also I looked again at the NHTSA site and compared the 2001 Elantra with the 2004. The 2001 had a driver's side HIC of about 482 and the 2004 was about 308 bringing the rating up from 4 stars to 5.
http://www.nhtsa.com/NCAP/Cars/1694.html
http://www.nhtsa.com/NCAP/Cars/2814.html

We still need to see if IIHS will test the 2004, because their test is more realistic.

backy

On the Elantra's crash tests, we were both wrong. Both the 2001 and 2004 models got two five-star ratings and two four-star ratings; that is why I said they had the same ratings. But I didn't look carefully enough. The 2001 car got four stars on the driver's side and five stars on the passenger side. The 2004 got five stars on the driver's side but four stars on the passenger side. I think that's curious since there were no obvious deign changes on the passenger side to account for it.

As for the "8-way" adjustable seat, let's do some counting:

1. Seat slides fore and aft.
2. Seatback reclines.
3. Seat cushion height adjusts in a single arc, using a single control.
4. Lumbar support adjusts.
5. Headrest adjusts up and down.

I'm not sure how they get 8. In fact, I'm not sure how Hyundai gets 8 even though they have an additional adjustment (total of 6). Maybe they both count "fore and aft" or "up and down" separately? ;-)

I happened to check some of Kia's comparison data to other cars on the Spectra site, and based on the inaccuracies there (e.g. Elantra does not have an audio system standard, Mazda3s does not have power locks or mirrors standard) I don't know how much I can trust their other data.

backy

There's a $2000 rebate and a $1000 "conquest" rebate on the new Spectra now. With negotiated discounts, one could pick up a Spectra EX for the low $10s + T&L!

jchan2

WOW. What happened? Not enough advertising? I haven't seen any new Spectra ads. Even if you don't negotiate, a loaded Spectra EX that stickers for around 16 grand (I looked at the options pricing list, wrote down every option, added it up on a calculator and arrived at approximately $16K) is just $13K! A Civic can't beat that!

pzev

Ok I got a chance to see this car in person finally. It was not at the dealership but I saw one in a parking lot. It had the optional 15" alloys. Overall it looked pretty nice. I'm guessing the wheels in the Edmunds first drive pictures are the steel wheels that come standard on LX and EX right? Those don't look half bad either. I peeked through the window to look at the interior. I was really surprised how higher quality it looks compared to pictures. I still don't like the empty holes where buttons would go but other than that it looks to have nice quality materials in it. This car is a great value and getting one between $10k to $12k with the 5/10 year warranty is amazing.

backy

I don't think it's lack of advertising; I've seen lots of Spectra ads lately. I think the main problem is that the new Spectra has a negative history to overcome. People don't know how good the new Spectra is yet. So until it builds up a positive reputation, Kia will need to draw buyers in with rebates, as they did with the old Spectra. The other thing working against Kia is that Hyundai offers big rebates on the Elantra, which is pretty comparable to the Spectra except for the side air curtains. So Kia will need to match those rebates. A good deal for buyers while it lasts.

jchan2

shouldn't they rename it Cerato then?

alpha01

Are you sure theres a $2000 rebate? Kia's website, autosite.com, and carsdirect.com all show a $1000 base rebate. On top of that, some customers may be eligible for the $1000 conquest rebate.

But whered the $2000 base rebate come from?

~alpha

jchan2

What is a Conquest rebate?

iluvmysephia1

but I'm guessing that a conquest rebate would be when the dealer can sell a Kia to you and it's the first Kia you've ever bought, or the last car you bought was not a Kia. Kinda gimmicky but go with it because it saves you $1000! I wouldn't hesitate buying one of these new Spectra's a bit-but you all know how I feel about Kia, too! Absolutely great deal on a small car IMO!

alpha01

Is a bit more specified than you mention, iluvmysephia. If you go on Kia's website, theres a description of the program (its not called "conquest" but something similar). You have to own/lease one of the specified vehicles in your household to be eligible for the rebate. For example, if I wanted an All-New Spectra, I would be eligible, because I currently have a Nissan Sentra. But, if I wanted a Sedona, the Sentra ownership wouldnt qualify me- Id need to have a Quest or competiting minivan.

Hope that helps
~alpha

backy

I've seen dealers in my town advertising a $2000 rebate plus $1000 "conquest" rebate. Sometimes rebates are regional.

jchan2

So if I own a Civic, I can get $1,000 off a brand new Spectra? And if I own an Odyssey, I get $1,000 off a Sedona?

alpha01

If Kia's rebates are regional, why arent they posted as such on the corporate website? You can go on www.kiausa.com, click on " Low APR/Cash Back Offers and Owner Loyalty Offers", and it gives you the rebates menu. No zip code entry is required, which to me, indicates that the rebates shown are national. Id guess that maybe its a dealer specific rebate offer?

Whatever the case, every zip Ive tried for NJ shows only a $1000 rebate on carsdirect.com.

Jchan- yes.

~alpha

backy

I'm just telling you what I saw, with my own eyes, in my own local paper (Star Tribune, Newspaper of the Twin Cities). You can go look through back issues if you don't believe me.

jchan2

if someone owns a Lexus LS430 and trade down into a Kia Amanti, do you think they'd give them the Conquest rebate?

alpha01

Um, I believe you, Im just saying the rebates you posted arent available in NJ.

jchan- Check out Kia's website- Eligible Competitive Bonus vehicles are plainly posted there.

~alpha

ateixeira

Keep in mind a lot of offers are regional.

-juice

jchan2

ok. I'll look at the website today.

jimjps

Good gallery pix of the Cerato.

http://www.kia.nl/

pzev

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article- _id=8206

csandste

why's it in the future vehicles forum?

granolaj

Does anyone know when the Spectra 5-door will be in dealer showrooms?

thanks!

Kirstie_H

I'll close it in the next few days. With an update to an existing vehicle, I like to give you all a while to talk about it til you're talked out on the updates!

jimjps

The Spectra5 hatch isn't out yet. The last I saw was an expected June intro date, but I don't see anything yet. The hatch is what I am waiting to see.

monster

I test drove the 2004.5 a week ago, and although I have not driven the Elantra before, my distint sense was that the shimmy was present at highway speeds. Anyone else have this experience?

backy

When I test-drove the "All-New" 2004 Spectra (not to be confused with the "old" 2004 Spectra), I detected no trace of shimmy and I took it up to 65-70 mph. This was an EX with 5-speed tranny, standard wheels.

BTW, I noticed Kia is offering a $1000 Competitive Bonus on the All-New 2004 Spectra, in addition to the $1000 rebate, but it is a strange bonus. It includes most compact cars, but no Hyundais (don't want to compete with the sister company I guess). It also includes most Mitsubishi models, including the Galant and SUVs! It's clear which automaker Kia is focusing on with this bonus--kick Mitsu while they're down! There's also a $1000 Loyalty bonus for current Kia owners. (Can use only the Competitive Bonus or Loyalty bonus, not both.)

jchan2

how can someone use both the competitive bonus and the loyalty bonus? If they drive a Spectra AND a Lancer?

backy

As I stated, you can use one or the other, not both.

ateixeira

LOL

Very imaginative folks here! :-)

-juice

jchan2

Why does Kia's competitor bonus includes all Mitsubishi models? For the Spectra, backy noted that the owner of a Galant or Endeavor could use the competitor bonus and get a Spectra.

alpha01

Kia's attempt is to mercifully put the ailing and unimpressive Japanese behemoth out of its misery (and it is pretty miserable).

About rebates- do note that the basic rebate can be combined with EITHER (as backy pointed out) the customer loyalty or the competitive bonus rebate. So you can still get two rebates.

~alpha