Suzuki Verona

fwatson

I googled that, and as with everything else there is dasagreement on it.

Not having driven a 5, I can't say personally. But I have read that the Audi 5 is almost perfectly balanced. OTOH, Autozine Technical School says this:

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Quote "Inline 5-cylinder engines
Straight-five engine is not very common in motor industry. In the past 20 years, only Audi (2.2 and 2.3-litre), Honda (Acura TL), Volvo (2.0-litre, 2.3 turbo and 2.4-litre), Fiat group (2.0 and 2.4-litre Super Fire series) and Mercedes diesel adopted such design. However, straight-five engine has its own advantages. Firstly, it bridges the gap between 4 and 6-cylinder engines, thus may offer the best cylinder capacity for optimized efficiency; Secondly, compare with 4-cylinder engines, it saves one balancer shaft; Thirdly, compare with 6-cylinder engines, it is short enough to be fitted transversely into the engine compartment of front-wheel-drive cars, driving directly the inline gearbox. Lastly, it can be derived from a modular design consisting of 4 and 6-cylinder inline engines, not only saving development cost but also eliminating the investment of a new production line. Fiat, Mercedes and Volvo’s 5-pots, for example, are made as modular engines.

The inline-5 engine fires once every 720° / 5 = 144° crank angle. As a result, the crankshaft design is as shown in below. Firing order is 1-3-5-4-2.
 

 
My mathematical analysis proved that both its resultant first order force and second order force are balanced. Therefore it doesn’t need the twin-balancer shafts as a big 4-cylinder engine. However, it generates end-to-end vibration like 3-cylinder engines, because piston 1 is not in the same position as piston 5, and piston 2 is not in the same position as piston 4. Therefore both ends of the engine will vibrate up and down with respect to the engine center.

Solution - single balancer shaft

Obviously, the solution is the same as 3-pot engines, that is, employ a balancer shaft on which there are counter weights moving in the opposite direction to the pistons. The balancer shaft is driven by the engine at the same speed as the crankshaft.

Is that enough to make 5-cylinder engine as smooth as 6-cylinder? no. For packaging reasons, the balancer shaft cannot be placed in the most optimized position, that is, right above or below the crankshaft. Therefore it has to be offset to either side of the engine, resulting in incomplete cancellation of vibration."

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I guess it's open to debate.

fwatson

I haven't driven a Verona yet, but I did use a 4 cyl Hyundai Accent for about 4 hours this morning. That is one very noisy engine, which also vibrates a lot at idle. If it is any indication of 4 cylinder progress, count me out.

alpha01

Cause clearly the Accent 4 is state of the art....
(ie... its NOT a indicator of the progress)

~alpha

venus537

your comments indicate to me that you're referring to the previous generation accord/camry i4 engines (and even then it's an exaggeration) or you're overly exaggerating to the 10th degree if you're talking about their current i4 engines.

and the 03/04 accord v6 gives nothing up to the camry v6 in terms of smoothness.

this seems like a promising car but it's not going to be because of its powertrain.

dkuhajda

If they get pushed HARD off the line, they quickly get buzzy. Not like a Neon or Accent 4 by any means, but you can definitely tell they are four cylinder engines working hard. Both the Honda and Toyota vehicles do a reasonably good job of isolating the noise from the cabin so it likely is not going to be a big issue. I do think the Toyota and Honda I4 have it in the fuel economy arena. This might be a bigger issue as fuel prices continue to spike even higher each year.

If the 4 cylnder engines are not pushed to the limit, they are quite smooth running little buggers. This is really how most people would drive them around town so the extra noise is not going to be an issue.

The Accord V6 simply has more exhaust noise than the Camry V6 when pushed hard for acceleration and up in the revs. It did seem however that the Camry V6 had less oomph off the line than the Accord V6 however.

The MidSize sedan market is really pretty flooded with lots of nice cars right now. Just not many in the $16K range well equipped.

venus537

fair enough. i'm looking forward to checking out this car.

sda

I thought I would venture into to Suzuki dealer to give the Verona a look over. They had an EX in Garnet Red in the showroom. Looks impressive. The salesperson came over and said he can't sell them yet. Said something about the airbags. Might be two weeks before they can allow folks to drive and buy. Is there already a recall on it?

fwatson

I just tried Google, and AllData. Neither is showing any recall on the Verona. That doesn't mean that there absolutely isn't one.

foister1

Hello.

I'm new to the site but stumbled across this via google searching.
I am a PC tech, and one of my clients is a local suzuki dealership. I have looked at the verona before (rode in one the day they came off the truck)

The reason dealerships werent allowed to sell them is this: Most dealerships will not sell a vehicle that has not been federally "Crash Tested." The vehicle is pending testing (may actually be done now as results were due out this week) but it sounds like maybe a mis-informed sales represenative.

If you wanted one pronto, 90% of the dealerships are said to be selling them regardless... Although discouraged by the fed.

foister1

The verona is sleek, stylish, and fun to ride in

personal opinion, of course

veronaowner

Had the Verona about 2 weeks now. So far I love it. Can hardly tell when it shifts. Very quite.
Had one problem with the R.R. passenger seat belt and it was replaced in 3 days. Tried to locate the transmission dip stick and there is not one, verified by the Suzuki mechanic, anyone else find this out? Only thing I hope for is a bit improvement on the MPG. No spare keys (without the remote control) at the dealer yet and the one with the remote control I was told cost $125.00 so don't lose one. More as time passes.

cknsls

and I think it is absolutely beautiful. I am will be looking at a new car the end of NEXT YEAR. However, miles per gallon is now a consideration with the recent "run up" in gas prices. What MPG are you getting? Thanks!

veronaowner

I have not checked it as yet. Will in the next few days. It has not been in too much use so far.
Only has about 200 miles on it since I got it. The fuel indicator is down to about 1/3 - 1/4 and it is a 17 gal tank.

evergreen

Have had mine for two weeks now and have 590 miles on it. Filled it up for the second time tonight on the way home. Mileage so far is a bit better than 21 mpg. All things considered, that is a little less than I would expect from this car. Hope it gets better. This is mixed town and freeway driving with a slight edge to the freeway driving. Otherwise, the car is beautiful, smooth, quiet and my wife loves it. One thing I have noticed is that I would imagine a tall person might have a problem with the head room. I am 5'9" so it isn't a problem for me but I have the seat all the way down. If I were much taller, I would be rubbing my head on the sunroof. Of course if I lived in Florida and kept the sunroof open I could raise the seat and keep my head outside in the wind. haha In response to veronaowner, with regular servicing, I doubt if I would ever need to know where the transmission dip stick is. I haven't found a good place to tie a rope if I want to tie it to a hitching post, either. Might need to know that if I ever travel to Texas.

veronaowner

My first attempt at checking the MPG is very disappointing. Only city short trips and about 10 miles on the interstate where I ran it up to ~80 mph a couple times and between 60 - 70. In 217 miles I got a whopping 16.7 MPG. Guess I will have to wait until it breaks in and try it again.
I won't let that spoil all the good features about the car. I still love it and think it will do much better.

fwatson

with those high speeds. Some claim that modern engines don't need broken in, but they should be. I wouldn't exceed 65 for the first 750 miles, and vary your speed, IOW don't run at a constant speed on the highway. It will pay off in the long run. Your Owners Manual probably has a recommendation on this.

The milage is very low. If that continues after about 1000 miles I'd get back to the dealer and have them check it out.

rctennis3811

yea dont worry..the Verona will do pretty well, though it most likely won't beat the Accord or Camry.

remember: this car isn't about breaking new ground but about packing lots of features into a nicely designed car with a low sticker price

the L6 engine, though not class-leading, is provided just to be SMOOTHER, not to beat any other car, but acceleration is pretty good due to its spectacular lb/ft of torque

i dont know why people are putting spiteful things about how the VERONA has nothing new..it ISNT SUPPOSED TO BE GROUNDBREAKING. Suzuki is all about building sturdy SUVs (XL7, GV) and funky cars (AERIO) and is all about value..

the Verona is selling fairly well in Dallas, TX..and some dealers are even raffling off Veronas at malls and other places

the Verona was made FOR THE FAMILY ON A BUDGET WHO STILL WANTS FAIRLY SOPHISTICATED FEATURES

veronaowner

The high speed 65+ was not held for more than a few seconds. I realize a vehicle needs to be broken in the way one is to drive it. I have no bad thing to say about the Verona. I still think it is a lot of vehicle for the money. The 2004 Verona EX is advertised in the news paper here in East Central Florida for $18889.00 and are sold through the Chrysler dealer.

venus537

checked out the verona. was impressed with the exterior fit and finish. the turnable exterior mirrors is a nice touch. now the bad news, i did not care for the interior decor and thought some trim was cheap. didn't have a chance to drive the car.

safetyred

I receive a safety alert e-mail that tells me about all different kinds of recalls, and the 2004 Verona is being recalled. It has to do with the Driver's airbag deploying in an improper sequence. They said that owners will start being notified in November.

lngtonge18

There is a recall on this car already?? This is going to raise even more concerns on the reliability of this car. So much for Suzuki bestowing its "Japanese" quality on the car. Oh wait, my 03 Aerio also had a safety related recall a few months ago. The windshield may not have been glued to the body properly, which could lead to the windshield flying off the car in a front end collision, leaving the occupant vulnerable to being ejected or hit by flying debris. I had never heard of a recall like that one. I think Suzuki needs to invest a little more money in quality control for safety components.

veronaowner

Taking mine to the dealer this afternoon for the driver side air bag mod. There was also a technical bulletin on the drivers seat belt. I will ask about that this afternoon. Also received the survey from J D Powers yesterday to complete.

evergreen

Just got my J D Powers letter and recall notice today too. Think I heard on the news last night something about Honda recalling 600,000+ vehicles, too. These things happen and are usually taken care of by the dealer without any problems. Still a happy owner.

veronaowner

In and out in 35 minutes for the airbag. The seat belt recall was completed before the dealer received the car. A site for technical bulletins and recalls is www.suzukipitstop.com
Still a happy Verona owner.

fwatson

You will always have people exagerate the importance of a recall on any car. And virtually all cars are going to have recalls and or TSB's. About all you can do is take it with a grain of salt and decide for yourself.

I personally don't see the recall on the Verona as anything but normal in the car business. It still looks like a very promising car to me. And after the initial first year teething it will probably be a very good car.

lngtonge18

So what exactly did they have to upgrade? Did they have to replace a sensor, wiring harness, or flash the computer?

evergreen

Hey veronaowner. I checked that website and found something about a Card Re-Flash update. Do you know anything about that?

veronaowner

The drivers air bag will not deploy in a proper sequence. The wire circuits between the air bag main harness and the clock spring ( don't know what the clock spring is) were mismatched. An adapting wiring harness was installed between the air bag main wiring harness and clock spring. I do not know anything about the card re-flash update. Will ask next time I am at the dealer. I do agree with "fwatson" that recalls are almost normal on any given automobile.
I am happy they find the problems and correct them before the item is needed in most cases.

lngtonge18

It's ok to have teething problems, but I wouldn't necessarily call recalls normal. Ask any owner of a 00-01 Focus and I'm sure they wouldn't say their experience has been normal. Recalls are needed when the manufacturer doesn't design something properly or installs a faulty part. It's great they fixed the problem, but the point is a well designed car shouldn't have any to begin with. I was simply pointing out the fact Suzuki appears to have quite a few safety related recalls recently and they need to work on that. I was also bringing to light the possibility some people will be turned away from buying this car since a recall appeared so quickly. It just doesn't look good on a car's record to have one within a month of its release.

fwatson

I don't mean that any car should have continuous recalls. Those cars are lemons and to be avoided. My point is that some people cry "lemon" or "trash" the second a car has even one problem of any kind.

My car is an '01 (not a Suzuki) and has never had a recall for anything, so I am not trying to justify sloppy manufacturing. Quite the contrary. But my car does have several TSB's which are kind of a kissing cousin to recalls, but not critical. I too am glad that even the best manufacturers issue those two types of bulletins and repair the "problems". So far none of the TSB's has even applied to mine, but they do to some percentage of a given car model, and thus need taken care of.

Unless the Verona becomes prone to recalls, I still think it is an exceptional car compared to anything else in it's price range. One recall does not a lemon make, despite the dooms criers.

Quote " It just doesn't look good on a car's record to have one within a month of its release."

While it would be nice if ALL bugs got worked out pre-release, the world is not perfect. You do therefore have early recalls, especially on new models.

paride

fwatson - I agree with you, and would also add that I'd rather have the recall early in the cars history, instead of finding out after 1-2 years of ownership that there's been a safety problem with my car.

I came to this board because I've seen the Verona at my local Suzuki dealership and was impressed. I own a 2002 Suzuki XL-7. I am highly satisfied with the XL-7's quality and have no worries about purchasing another Suzuki vehicle.

veronaowner

Has anyone tried to have a key duplicated at the dealer (or anywhere else) for a 2004 Verona? I only want a key to unlock the door or trunk manually (not the remote transmitter). I tried about three weeks ago and was told there was no blanks at the dealer. I called again today thinking they would have ordered some blanks and was told they would get back to me. I did not specifically order blanks before.

fwatson

Have you tried a locksmith? It may use the same blank as other Suzuki's or Kia's.

brianhutchins

I think everyone has missed the point on the I-6 in the Verona. I sell these cars in Puyallup, WA. at a stand alone Suzuki store, right between the Kia & Hyundai stores. I get this question all the time from shoppers. So, being a Trained & Certified Suzuki Sales Consultant I'll give you the real scoop on this engine.

Some of you have commented that you think a 6 cyl. should have more power (ala V6) than this engine does; and some of you have commented on how smooth & quiet the engine is.

The thinking behind the engine choice was based on displacement size, not cylinder count. A Nissan Altima 4cyl is 2.5L, so is the Verona I-6.
Most 4cyls. in this class are right around 2.3L to 2.5L and they are noisy. The Verona is the same displacement divided into 6 cyl. instead of four. This is how the car was thought out. Instead of a noisy 4cyl use a smooth, quiet, and long torque curve I-6. Just a different utilization of combustion space with a really nice benefit.

I hope this answers any lingering questions as to what GMDAT & Suzuki were thinking.

fwatson

I am not confused at all about Suzuki's choice of engine configuration. My personal car is a 2001 Mazda Millenia with a 2.5L V6 engine. It's rated output is only 170 HP. This is an extremely smooth and quiet engine. It simply puts any 4 to shame in those qualities.

For normal use, I find no reason for a more powerful engine, but it also has no advantage over a more powerful V6 when it comes to fuel economy.

I am satisfied with the lesser horsepower as well as lower torque. Most likely the performance of the Verona would be fine too for those of us who are not into drag racing etc. But if the sacrifice of power doesn't gain anything in economy, and probably not in reliability, I fail to see the reason for a manufacturer installing the smaller displacement 6.

brianhutchins

fwaston wrote: "I am satisfied with the lesser horsepower as well as lower torque. Most likely the performance of the Verona would be fine too for those of us who are not into drag racing etc. But if the sacrifice of power doesn't gain anything in economy, and probably not in reliability, I fail to see the reason for a manufacturer installing the smaller displacement 6".
Reply:
The choice to go with a lesser HP 6 cyl engine was purely financial. A more powerful V6 costs more$$$$ to the maunfacturer, & then the customer.

Suzuki is marketing this vehicle in the most effective price point in the new car market. A Bigger 6 or V6 would have made the price too high for the intended target.

traveljak

Had key made at a locksmith. Uses an ILCO X245 or X185 key blank. The first had to be finished at the car for a smooth turn, after that the locksmith cut the others on his key machine and they worked without any finishing with a file. Cost for three keys, $9.00 plus tax.

Don't that the Verona engine has "genuine" timing chain. No changing a timing belt every 40-60,000 miles

traveljak

lngtonge18

You are a bit behind the times. While a timing chain is nice (they still stretch and break though; my 91 Stanza's timing chain broke at 145k and trashed the head), timing belts nowadays only need to be replaced between 60,000-105,000, with most suggesting 90k. Most people will only encounter the expense once.

evergreen

I have about 1200 miles on the new Verona. Economy gradually improving about 1 mpg each tank. Started at 21 mpg the first tank, then 22 mpg and now 23 mpg on the last tank. I went back to the dealer and got the recall item fixed. All went smoothly. I spent the time talking to a new salesman at the dealership. He had purchased the first Verona sold by this dealership and when he went back to have the license plates put on, they offered him a job. He likes the car so much he took the job. He has sales experience but not with automobiles. It will be nice to be able to talk to a sales person who actually drives what he sells. Otherwise, my wife still loves the Verona. So do I.

veronaowner

Thanks traveljak for the info on the Key. Will try a locksmith this afternoon.

Evergreen, is that mpg with AC? We are still on AC here in Fla.

veronaowner

Found a locksmith this afternoon and had the keys made. Mine had to be finished at the car also. Were very hard to turn at first. The number of the key I got is DWO5AP. The name on the key is SILCA. The P indicates plastic head on the key. I always like to have a couple spare keys for the auto's.

evergreen

veronaowner, I am in Oregon and we had snow yesterday. No air conditioning needed here.

veronaowner

About 75 for a high today and 55 this AM.
This is a cool front for us. No AC today.
maybe through the weekend.
Thanks for the info.
Ken

lil302000

Hi all I have been reading the board and thought I would leave a few comments about our new Verona. We have about 5000 miles on the ODO in town and highway, this car really comes into it's own driving in town with the sunroof open and the classic rock jamming on the cd player. Don't get me wrong it is a good highway ride as well, but the smoothness and the ride give you a true big car feel in town. I had a key made from the Silca DWO5AP blank with no problems. Oil change on the other hand was, the Valvoline shop did not have the filter so they changed it without putting on a new filter at a discount. This should not be a problem due to the fact that I will take it to the dealer at 7500 miles and have it changed again and replace the filter. I have heard complaints about the horsepower and the softer ride of the Verona from some reviews that I have read. This is my thoughts after driving the car about the two issues. One Suzuki has spread a small displacement engine over two more cyls in an I6, with the result of a wider torque curve. The wider torque curve and the I6 produce a smoother less laboring feel to the powertrain. The ride is softer than Accord or camery but these cars are family cars not sport sedans, so if you want to rattle your families teeth than by all means buy a stiff suspension. Anyway we feel that this car feels solid and comfy, as close as you can get to the large American family car feel.

veronaowner

On the Suzuki Pit Stop site there is a new Technical Bulletin posted.
Tech Bulletin # Verona01 11213
Dated 11/21/2003
Electrical noise on the AM stations
Category: Service
Anyone heard about this one?

Other comments: Now have about 650 miles on the Verona and gas mileage has improved to 18.5 mpg
around town. Looking better all time. Still love the Verona, fun to drive and I love the feel on the road. Can't wait for a trip which will come next month for about a 3 hour interstate drive.

pat

You can ask the good folks who hang out in our Technical Service Bulletins discussion to get you the scoop on that TSB. They'll be glad to do so.

Let us know what you find out.

lil302000

Hi veronaowner, I drove from about 25 miles south of Columbus Ohio to Ann Arbor Michigan about a four hour drive and the Verona was flawless. The only improvement I think Suzuki needs to look at is a little better wind noise isolation. It was not bad but I think they could improve on it. We drive the car to and from work about 30 miles one way on a two lane highway and have noticed improved gas mileage. I can't give you the numbers but you can tell by the gauge. Anyway take care and have a great holiday, and enjoy your new car.

veronaowner

Thanks lil302000.
I am looking forward to the highway driving. Will check out the wind noise.
I am more imppressed with the car the more I drive it. Only about 650 miles on it now.
 I have a couple of items I would like to see improved as I drive it more.
> A little longer arm rest between the front seats.
> I think the cup holder by the gear shifter could be designed better.
But those are creature comforts that I can do without.
> Suggested to the person that called from Suzuki to answer a survey over the phone that there be a note in the owners hand book that there is no transmission dip stick to check the fluid and why there is not one, (sealed unit that requires no periodic check.) She stated I was the 2nd person she had talked to that made that suggestion.
I don't drive the Verona daily, but I really like to drive it.
Happy Holidys.

lngtonge18

Car and Driver has a road test on the Verona EX in the January issue. Overall, they seemed quite impressed with the car. They praised the high levels of fit and finish, high feature content, roomy interior, comfortable seats, small turning radius, good brakes, and competent ride and handling. They said the engine/tranny is a packaging wonder, but didn't like the performance. In fact, the performance was quite dismal. The Verona takes 10.7 seconds to reach 60 mph, which is slower then automatic equipped four cylinder economy cars. In fact, a Kia Rio or Hyundai Accent could outrun this six cylinder! The smoothness of a six is nice, but Suzuki definitely needs to look into adding variable valve timing to this engine. They did mention a few quality lapses and quirks, including a cruise control that looses 3-5 mph before engaging (something my 03 Suzuki Aerio did as well; very annoying!). Overall though, the article was enthusiastic. This ought to help the Verona establish itself better.

boughtaverona

About three weeks ago I decided to bite the bullet and buy a new car. I wanted a feature laden midsize that I could get at a price that would not give me major heartburn when my teen age sons spilled food in the back seat or bumped and scratched it in the garage with bicycles and other stuff.

 It came down to only two options in my mind: the top of the line Sonata or the Verona. Test drove both. In the end what pushed me to the Verona was 1) the quiet smooth engine (V6 was much noiser in the Sonata) 2) the tight turning radius 3) the exterior styling and lines and 4) being turned off by the Hyundai reputation.

Three weeks and a 1000 miles later, I have no regrets or complaints. The engine is whisper quiet and I love that. Stereo is great and I love the stereo controls on the wheel. I'm no expert on performance, but I can tell you that for everyday around town and highway driving, it's plenty fine for me. The real test, in my mind, was the 600 mile trip I just completed from San Diego to Vegas. I was concerned about how the engine and tranny would handle the several formadible mountain passes. Would the engine bog? Would the tranny keep shifting? No problems taking on those mountains at 70-80 on cruise control. By the way, used the cruise almost all the way home. I like where the cruise control is placed on the steering wheel and experienced no problems with response in setting, acc or coasting. Drove both ways at 75-80. Gas milage was a dissapointing 22.5 on the way and a surprising 26.5 on the trip back.