Suzuki Verona

dkuhajda

The particular Engine/Tranny combination in the Verona uses Fuzzy logic to fine adjust the transmission and engine parameters to the drivers habits. I would bet that Car and Driver did not drive the car the way they were going to test it for several hundred miles to allow the computer to store new values beyond the default values from the time of manufacture. Hence the lower 0-60 times posted by them than many owners who have a few thousand miles on the car. Real world 0-60 time is going to be around 9.5 seconds to 9.8 seconds given the HP/Torque and size of the vehicle, very similar to the same size 4 banger in the Camry or Accord with the 5 speed auto.

Same goes for the fuel mileage, at 600 miles the engine is just starting to get past the initial learning stage and break in period. Add the new shift points for the transmission and the fuel economy should rise during the first couple of thousand miles (barring a totally dead battery or battery disconnection).

The acceleration from 0-60 are only average for the price range of same sized cars and the fuel economy is also in the average range for other 6 cylinder cars, the extra little torque and engine smoothness makes for an easier around town drive and a good highway cruiser.

I still like how the current Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable drive and handle for every day around town and highway family cars. If only they would offer the cars at the same price and feature level brand new and the same or close to the same level of warranty.

alpha01

Plenty of cars have adaptive automatic transmissions that "learn" driver behaviour. This is not an excuse for a 0-60 time worse than that of the PREVIOUS 136hp 97-01 4 cylinder Toyota Camry. Even if what you're saying is true, I would hardly expect a nearly 1.5 second improvement. And which owners have been posting 0-60 times? I see plenty of posts here, but none include acceleration numbers.

Smooth it may be, but the drivetrain is what will hurt sales of this otherwise decent vehicle. Below average 4 cylinder power and below average V6 consumption.

~alpha

veronaowner

Being an older (60+ ---- did I write that?) Verona purchaser/owner I did not purchase the Verona for the 0-60mph time. Reflexes not being what they use to be, what would I do with the 1.5 second if I got to 60 faster? I purchased the car for all the looks, extras, performance and price. The speed is enough to get me out of the way of someone else. I guess I am saying it gets me from point A to point B in a respectable time and I like that.
Thanks for letting me post my opinion.
Veronaowner/Ken

cjsb

Like veronaowner, 0-60mph time is not high up on my list of priorities. And I'm 33. I'm looking for a comfortable, quiet, attractive (to my eyes) vehicle with a decent size trunk/cargo area. I like the feature package incorporated with GLX trim Verona (16" alloys, moonroof, abs, foglights, power driver seat). I also prefer the styling of the Verona compared to most other four door sedans. Depending what price I can negotiate on this car, it may be my next purchase. Any owners in Canada yet? I'd be interested to here what sort of purchase prices people are coming up with. And for those in the U.S., have you found dealers willing to move much on the price? I have yet to see a Verona on the road in the Toronto area.

veronaowner

Mine is the EX trim and has all the items you mentioned in your post. A price I have seen advertised in the news paper here in Central East Coast of Florida is $18,988.00. Edmunds car site says it is $19,499 I think and then add the $500.00 for transportation to the dealer. The $18,988.00 price included the $500.00 transportation cost. The $18.988 was as low as I could get them. It has a lot of standard equipment that is extra or on more expensive auto's, i.e. heated outside mirrors - heated seats - ABS - 4 wheel disk brakes - Radio,Cassette,CD controls on the steering wheel - day time running lights - extensions and lighted mirrors on both sun visors - fold down arm rest in the read seat - to name a few. I have not found any listed rebates. I think I just like it.......
Veronaowner
Ken

bmcclain

The Verona has higher gear ratios, if it is tuned similar to the previous Daewoos. The Nubira was
On a side note, side airbags are available in listed as 10 seconds to 60mph, and about 2 more with an automatic, but mine accelerates to 60 in around 9 seconds with the automatic transmission. The Verona should speed up as it breaks in. I have no problem with passing multiple cars on two-lane roads, the majority of my driving is in this case. As veronaowner said, what is 1 second?

On a side note, side airbags are available in Europe and Korea on the Daewoo Magnus/Evanda and is a Suzuki issue in NA.

alpha01

can be a very long time if you're merging from a stop onto a busy roadway or merging from low speeds on to a highway, like where I live in NJ. The Verona's passing times of 30-50 of 5.8 seconds and from 50-70 of 7.1 are more troubling than the 0-60, IMO. Yes, they are acceptable overall, and certainly NOT unsafe, but there's something to be said for an extra margin of power, and consequently, safety. As a consumer, I expect more out of a straight (or V) six.

~alpha

brianhutchins

Power Freaks.... All of you......

lngtonge18

It's not about being a power freak. It's just that the power of this six cylinder engine is disappointing. My point of view is this: if the six can't provide the feeling of power or accelerate faster then a four cylinder, then why waste my money on the lower fuel economy and higher repair costs? Four bangers are darn smooth nowadays, so the added refinement isn't that much of a perk. My former 00 Accent with 89 hp and a 5 speed did 0-60 right about the same time as the Verona, and that car was a bit scary when trying to cross roads or pull out in traffic in a hurry. The lack of power was the only real reason I got rid of the car. I expect a six to be able to outmuscle a little four banger with no straining, but that's not true in this case.

But I'm willing to keep an open mind and give the Verona a test drive. Suzuki sent me a coupon which will give me $25 if I go test drive any 04 Suzuki by the end of the year. I'm gonna give the Verona a shot and see for myself how its six compares to Hyundai's 2.7 V6. I own an 03 Tiburon with the 2.7 V6 and 4 speed automatic so I will be able to tell how well the 2.5 inline six compares in the power department.

alpha01

doesnt the Verona weigh about 400-500lbs more though? Comparing the engines of two vehicles in different classes with dissimlar weights doesnt seem like the most "fair" comparison. A better comparison would be driving the Sonata V6 (and 4!) back to back with the Verona.

~alpha

lngtonge18

You are right in that my Tiburon is a lighter car, but the actual difference between the Tib and Sonata is a half second at best, if not less. I guess I should have said I will be able to compare how the two engines "feel". Is the inline six in the Verona noticeably smoother and quieter then Hyundai's V6? Does it rev as quickly as the Hyundai? Does the Verona feel adequately fast or does it even feel like it has the power of a six?

p.s. Alpha, did you notice that the 160 horse four cylinder Galant, which weighs the same as the Verona, outaccelerated it by over a second with only 5 more hp?? I think the gearing is simply too tall for the Verona. I bet a whole second could be shaved off if they just lowered the final drive ratio (although that might lower the fuel economy, which is already not a strong suit).

alpha01

Sorry for mis-spelling your name in my last post.

Yes, I did note the Galant's signficantly better times. I would expect the 4 cyl/auto Accord to be, perhaps, a half second ahead of the Galant from 0-60 and in the street start, and the Camry 4cyl/ auto to be maybe a tenth or two quicker. When I test drove it, the only thing I did not like was the MIVEC's noise level in the mid to upper range, an observation that James Healy from USA today also made, and an issue not present in the Camry and Accord. Now, if the Verona's 2.5L I-^ isnt at least as smooth, and free revving, as the Camry and Accord 4s, that would really suck, given the cars slow acceleration, lacking fuel efficiency, and otherwise overall strong execution. I wonder if the Verona's lack of alacrity will seal the deal against it for some?

~alpha

sodsman

My previous ride is starting to accumulate a lot of miles and I will be in the market soon. I stopped by on a whim one day to look at the Verona. I had never even been inside of a suzuki car dealer before. Wow was I impressed. I had already looked at and drove the Camcord and Altima 4 cyl. They were all nice, a little gruff in the motor dept and at the low 20K range, not lavishly equipped. The interior on the Altima especialy was very hard and cheap looking. I then drove the Verona EX and I was floored. Build quality was extremely high, paint beautiful and tolerances very tight. I drove it for as good 20 minutes in various conditions (freeway, 2 lane, rush hour etc..) and I NEVER FELT LACKING FOR POWER. Granted it didn't yank my eyeballs flat, but thats not it's mission. I have a hard time believing that the 0-60 is 10+. It felt more like low 9's if that. In other words it didn't feel apreciably slower than the 4 bangers.
             On the other hand the song this 24 valve sings is beautiful, smooth and serene. It's one hell of a cruising motor. Very smooth and quiet and the tranny shifts like butter. I was also extremely impressed with the comfort and luxury of the interior. The leather is wonderful and I think the look of the wood is nice. Everything has that quality highly silicone damped feel to it. It had plenty of room both in front and back. Very impressive. I also pushed the car a little in the handling on ramps and lane changes and it stuck very well, and braked very well. The power steering has a very nice feel.
         The only thing that concerns me are crash test scores. I have not been able to find any on the Magnus or the Verona. I hope it does better than previous Daiwoo(?) products. If not ........well I also drove a 5-spd Aerio SX that I could blabber for hours about.........!
Overall I have a new found respect for Suzuki products and I think the Verona should get a serious look by anyone checking out a new sedan.

lngtonge18

Blabber hours about the Aerio SX?? I hope it was the better engine in the 04. I owned an 03 Aerio SX 5 speed. Numerous niggling problems in only 9k (some of my problems were widespread annoyances). And the engine was so loud and unrefined. I had to dump the car before it drove me crazy. Build quality on that car was very disappointing. I seriously hope the Aerio didn't impress you that much. The room and comfort is fantastic, but that's just about it. In fact, the only reason I would even consider the Verona is because it wasn't designed by Suzuki.

sodsman

It was an 04 model. I dont think the engine was that bad in it's sound. (Maybe 04 is better?) It feels very nice and torquey. I didnt wind the engine up as it had only a few miles on it (it was a 5-speed)so I dont know if it gets thrashy on top. The fit and finish was great. The paint smooth and flawless. Very solid on road presence. I'd like to hear about the problems you encountered. Take a close look at the Verona it's very nice!

jkobty

So how are you guys enjoying your new Daewoos? OOPS, Suzuki's?
I still have my almost 5 year old Daewoo Leganza with Zero problems so far. Still runs, handles, looks feels and smells like day one. So you guys should have good service out of these new woos.
BTW, GM did cut cost on these cars after they bought Daewoo. The original Daewoo Magnus/Evanda was designed to use a more expensive transmission(Either a ZF or Aisin/Warner), but now that GM is calling the shots, you are getting a GM transmission. GM trannies are durable, smooth, etc.. but they somehow manage to suck the power out of the engine. Meaning the power does not get delivered properly to the wheels. My Leganza with the Aisin/Warner tranny is much better behaved in the acceleration department especially going from 1st to 2nd gear(takeoff) which seems to be the weak point on the new version(Verona, Epica). At least that is what I noticed from my test drive.
Not to mention that they have cheapened the suspension components and also made them more floaty(GM like). But if you have never owned a Leganza before, you probably will not notice, as the Verona is probably still better than most other options out there, just like the original Leganza was, whether you believe that or not.
The engine on the other hand is a GEM. This is the smoothest engine I have ever seen, even compared to my wife's Acura TSX, which I now consider noisy.

alpha01

The 4 cylinder Leganza proved quicker in Car and Driver's acceleration tests than the new Verona, with its straight six and much greater torque, so I completely believe what you're saying about the trannys, jkobty. Of course, the first Leganza that C/D tried to test for a comparo in Sept 99 threw a rod during acceleration tests....

~alpha

rctennis3811

actually, the Verona still uses the ZF transmission. Read more about it in the newest issue of Car & Driver.

lngtonge18

Your wife owns an Acura TSX now?? What happened to the trusty Nubira?

jkobty

The trusty Nubira is still here. She is doing much better in real estate and you know that job demands prestige more than anything. The Nubira served her well as a starter, and now she can afford a more expensive car.
BTW, the Nubira is leased and the lease will expire in 4 month. With the resale values, I am thinking of returning it, and grabbing a Leganza CDX for about $2000, which would be less than the remaining residual payout on the Nubira.

Also the Verona DOES NOT USE A ZF tranny. You can read all you want in the magazines. The original Magnus/Evanda uses a ZF tranny yes. The Verona uses a bloody GM tranny very similar to the ones in the Forenza, Nubira, etc... It is GM folks.
I know how GM trannies look, and drive, and this one is GM. I have been driving woos since 1995, so I know what I am talking about. If you want a real Daewoo with a real tranny, you have to order it from Korea or Europe.

jkobty

BTW Ingtonge18, our Acura TSX has been back at the dealer 3 times already for warranty repairs, and out of the 11 or so defects in the car, they only agreed to fix 3. Remaining issues:
1. Brake rotors scored badly (circular grooves), my 5 year old Leganza still has no score marks on original rotors.
2. Steering vibration when applying brakes firmly.
3. Parchment color leather fading, easily stained from colored clothes, and cannot be cleaned.
4. Very poor gas mileage (17 mpg)
5. Burns oil. Oil level decreases to slightly above the min level between oil changes.
6. Doors rattle, sunroof creaks, rear view mirror vibrates.

They fixed the leaking AC drain hose(car was flooded from inside), replaced the steering wheel because the woodtrim was peeling, and adjusted the alignment(off centre).

This was the biggest mistake ever, of course my wife made that mistake, not me, and she has to live with it. When the lease expires this piece of junk goes back to Acura. I will make sure that I return it in reaaaaaally good shape.:)

Let this be a lesson, my inexpensive Daewoo built 5 year old Korean car has been trouble free, and this brand new Acura TSX a piece of [non-permissible content removed]. Enjoy your Daewoos, they are worth every penny.

alpha01

"let this be a lesson"

or the anecdotal evidence it is.

~alpha

lngtonge18

I'm not suprised to hear about the oil burning. There have been many complaints about this in the Civic Si and RSX. Seems Honda has slipped in the engine department. I find it odd they are able to get such low emmission ratings with burning the amount of oil they do. The other problems are unfortunate. Heck, the lowest mileage my 2.7 V6 in the Tiburon got was 19 mpg, but it routinely averages 22! The TSX has such a nicely styled interior and appears to handle well. It's a shame you got such a bad apple!

boughtaverona

Anonymous, you are way off the mark. I rented a Corrolla LE for a week in October. Nice little compact car. Bought a Verona in mid-november. There is absolutely no comparison. With a 7 year bumper to bumper extended warranty, the Verona is still much cheaper than similar equiped CAMCORDS and worth serious consideration. I suggest you drive a Verona.

gee35coupe

Is the only way they will sell any Veronas.

For one the word CamCord means Camry and Accord. Not the Corolla.

The Verona IS the Daewoo Magnus circa 2000 or so. It was to replace the Leganza right before they went caput. So the design comes to market long in the tooth. It would be like Toyota still selling the previous Camry.

Okay the Verona has a non variable valve timing 6 cylinder engine. It may have an advantage in smoothness. But that's about it. It's behind the times compared to the best from Japan. The previously mentioned TSX makes 200hp from 2.4 liters. Not to mention the Accord and TSX both have 5 speed automatic transmissions.

All of the "premium" Japanese brands are eons ahead in safety, efficiency, and economy. For example the latest tests have the Verona at over 10 sec to 60. The Camry I4 auto is in the mid 9's. Right there you have the Camry significantly peppier than the Verona. To get the Suzuki to perform closer to the Camry you will have to push it harder which will decrease its already dismal gas mileage. The Camry I4 city mileage is already nearly besting the Verona's highway mileage.

You can't compare the Verona's I6 mileage to the Camcord's V6's since they have at least an 80 hp advantage. There's no discussing the advantage that kind of torque and power advantage brings to the table. I mean the Accord V6 is in the low 7's.

No Verona crash tests or side airbags vs. when all leather equipped Accords have side and curtain airbags and have been 5 star rated. Camrys have the same aibag option.

You want correct information? How about this. The Verona is only about $3000 less than the Accord in real world prices. It has the smoother engine but that's about it. The Accord is faster, safer, more efficient, and has a much better resale history. There are no facts left that would put the Verona in any brighter light. So okay...It cheaper. And.....

carrino

HAVEN'T BEEN ON THIS SITE IN A LONG TIME, BUT JUST BOUGHT A VERONA EX. I HAD A DEAL IN PLACE FOR THE 2004 MALIBU LT, WHICH I RESEARCHED ALOT AND REALLY LIKED. MY WIFE HAS A 02 XL7 WHICH IS A GREAT SUV,AND WHILE THE OIL WAS BEING CHANGED, I WENT INTO THE SHOW ROOM AND LOOKED AT THE VERONA. I WAS SHOCKED AT THE PRICE FOR A FULLY LOADED EX. THE MALIBU FULLY LOADED WITH ONSTAR AND SATELITTE RADIO(WHICH I DIDN'T WANT) WAS $25,720! SO I HAD NUMBERS FIGURED OUT WITH ALMOST THE SAME OPTIONS.I HAD A REMOTE START INSTALLED(STANDARD ON THE MALIBU), AND STILL CAME AWAY 50.00 LESS A MONTH ON THE PAYMENTS. I HAVE A 2001 SATURN L200, AND DID NOT WANT THE SAME CAR AGAIN(I LEASE)THE VERONA DROVE VERY NICE ON THE TESTER, AND I THINK I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE.

boughtaverona

and....I never said the Verona is a better vehicle than a Camary or Accord. But Anonymous was comparing it as an alternative to a Corrolla or Civic and that's just not right. I love my Verona after a month....but no way at this point would I (or should anyone) say it is a better car than a loaded Camary or Accord. CamCords are proven winners. What I can say is that at the price you can get a Verona for, with the no interest loans Suzuki is offering, with the seven year warranty, an engine that purrs, a tighter turning radius than either a Camary or Accord if that matters (with my driveway I need less than 35 foot radius) and more rear legroom than the Camary or Accord if that matters (I got two growing teenagers) .... it's definitely worth a test drive and worth serious consideration.

lelandhendrix

I came to this forum, as an Accord owner, because I also believe the Verona deserves a look.

From what I have learned, the Verona is an easy best pick for someone not interested in power. This is unfortunate, because the trend in all 2003/2004 cars is MORE POWER.

My 4-cyl Accord could easily lap the Verona (more than a second quicker to 60) and consume less gas in the process.

That said, I compliment the Verona on it's value at the price.

lil302000

I don't think that the Verona was introduced as a better car than Accord or Camary. I know it was introduced to compete with the four bangers and not the V-6. Back in the 70s little inexpensive low tech cars were introduced by a company known for it's motorcycles. These cars were not thought as much of a threat to the major players in the market of that time, but they began to build a reputation as a reliable alternative to the offerings from Detroit. Starting to sound familure. Enter Korea in the the 90s and 2000s Kia, Hyundi, and Suzuki lower tech than the kings but priced thousands less. The key to the Koreans is the same as it was for Honda and Toyota in the 70s and 80s reliability and not 1/4 mile times or hi tech engines. I have a friend that works for Honda making interior components he rode with me on a four hour each way trip to Michigan soon after I bought my Verona. He stated that they have been conducting meetings about maintaining high build quality and keeping cost down because of the cars that are being produced in Korea. He could not believe the interior of the Verona his exact words were you can not get this type of interior or options in a less than $20,000 Accord. During the total 8 hours of driving not one word was mentioned about 1/4 mile times, just that he could not believe the comfortable ride and how nice the car was inside. Now you know from someone in the know Honda remembers their history and will be forced to change and improve each year to remain on top, and this is good news for all consumers.

dindak

I saw and sat in the Chevy Epica (Verona twin up here) when I went in to test a Malibu. It was very nice inside and well appointed. The big down side of this car is the lack of power and the looks which are a bit drab. That said, the other cars in this segment are not really any better looking.

gee35coupe

If your only concern is making sure your car can move it's own weight and how nice the interior looks than I guess your requirements are a might lower than the level of refinement of the rest of the "premium" makes. It's like comparing the level of the Camcord to the E-class or 5-series.

Look at the posts here. Owners love the price before anything else. Then how nice the interior looks.

Go over to the Camcord forums. The car has to be near the best in crash tests, luxury features, gas mileage, quietness at cruise, quickness, and handling (opposite ends of the ride spectrum for the Accord vs Camry). The Korean makes have yet to make a car that competes on ALL those fronts. You can't do that for less than $20,000 MSRP. Sure they make cars that get down the road nicely. But for the best of the econo-sedans, they still are as close to being a Camcord replacement as an Accord will replace the E-class.

What Anony was saying is that at the current prices, the Verona would be an alterative to the Civic or Corolla. Which I agree with. But as far as someone going from the Camcord showroom to the Verona showroom and choosing the Verona. Weelllll I don't think we'll see major decreases in the number of them sold because of the Verona. In fact if the Verona were so superior, GM would have saved a lot of money on development of the Malibu and just sold it as a Chevy.

Additionally, you might better buy this Verona if you want one since it WAS designed by Daewoo when it was an independent entity. The next car will have a lot more GM influence. Scary.

rctennis3811

is made to compete with Optima/Sonata twins

lil302000

Sorry for leaving the price aspect out. I agree safety is important but on the flip side as a person that rides motorcycle the best safety feature on any vehicle is the person at the controls. The manufactures and government can only do so much, and I agree the more the better. The bottom line is until people realize that things happen in a split second and that when they take their attention off the task at hand they place you, me and all at risk. Cell phones, personal care and flipping through CDs have no place on the road. Anyway back to what I stated before none of the vehicles here are even close to being performance vehicles as the early Hondas and Toyotas were not, they were stiff riding and still stiff and covered park benches. I think you will find that none of the mentioned cars Accord, Camary. or Verona will even come close to sport sedans. There is no such animal as a FWD sports sedans due to the fact that once you approach 300 HP there is to much torque on the wheels that you steer with. This torque degrades handling and knocks all FWD cars from the true sports segment. All I am saying is the Koreans are using Honda and Toyotas own strategy against them and if they are reliable then they will capture a nice portion of the market.

gee35coupe

Then you aren't even thinking "family sedan". I'm not sure where the "sport sedan" reference came from. 300hp? Most "sport sedan" would dream of such. The premium "sport sedans" 330/530i have 225hp. 15 hp less than the Accord V6. In pure numbers there are several FWD sedans that approach the numbers of the Bimmers. And surpass them in other aspects that are important in the "family sedan" crowd.

The extra power isn't to make the car a "sport sedan". For many it's a safety feature to keep the car out of trouble. For others it's bragging rights. No matter why they buy it though, to be a leader in this segment, you have to bring the goods.

Early Japanese makes didn't have anywhere near as much as the Koreans to overcome. The early 70's U.S. brands never were efficient, safe, or reliable. The U.S. market was ripe for cheap, reliable, economical transportion. Unfortunately for the Koreans, Toyonda have a much higher level of refinement than the Domestics had in place.

lil302000

The fact is the tin boxes that the Japanese first brought to market were not the benchmark of refinement, they were cheap, small, fuel efficient, and most of all reliable. The Verona lacks in power compared to the V-6 offerings of most all companies but it is not intended to compete and is priced to reflect that. The four bangers in it's group do not bring noticeable ground pounding power as to make them safer. The real world numbers. On the safety front the Verona stops over two feet shorter and turns with a two feet shorter turning radius than the Accord. The Verona has the same interior noise levels as the Acura TL, actually one Db better under acceleration. Handling is respectable at 0.78g on 300-ft-dia skid pad with minimal understeer and body lean. Yes it could use more power and more refinement but the controlled numbers don't lie. Not a bad first effort and we will tell in time what the impact of affordable transportation will have on the market.

alpha01

The first effort was the Daewoo Leganza. Sorry, but the Veron's acceleration times are a good deal in arrears of the Camcords, which manage mid 8s (Accord-Motor Trend's best was 8.5) to low 9s (Camry- Motor Trend's best was 9.2) with automatic transmissions. More importantly, the Camcords offer better passing power.

~alpha

boughtaverona

I've been negotiating the Southern California freeways (or should I say speedways) for 20 years, first with a 77 VW Camper and then an 85 Volvo 240 DL. Talk about slugs! My Verona feels lightning quick. I have no regrets about the VW or Volvo. I loved those vehicles and the Volvo is still going strong. I have never been in an accident, or come close, or ever felt in jeopardy on the roadways due to a lack of power. Of course, I drive defensively and don't get my thrills driving like a maniac.

I think you are right, the power and performance as between the Verona and the competition is largely about bragging rights (I disagree it's about safety) and if it's performance bragging rights you need to feel good about what you drive then the Verona is not the right car. Otherwise, it's worth a look.

lil302000

Not the same car. Different power plant, different suspension, different sheet metal and Suzuki quality control. If one or two seconds means that much safety than more than two feet of stopping ability should mean the world as well. Sounds like a push to me.

gee35coupe

The Suzuki Verona IS the Daewoo Magnus.
http://www.car-pictures-photos-pics.com/pictures/Daewoo%20Magnus%- 20pictures%20photos%20pics.htm
  I think Jkopty would be the first to tell you that it isn't even a good Daewoo in that many of the uscale trim items that were on the Magnus disappeared on the Verona. Suzuki has as much to do with the construction of the Verona as Honda had over the Passport. And what a disaster that was.

lil302000

Hi gee I would like to thank you for proving my point as Jkopty stated this is not a Daewoo as in his words the transmission is GM the suspension is GM and the car is Verona. As far as Suzuki having nothing to do with the car you will have to take that up with Rick Suzuki he said it not me. Welcome to the Honda Passport.

rasup

I thank all for a lively discussion on Verona. I have test driven it, I test drove the Camry/Accord too. All points made about slow accelaration may be correct. But the Car is really something to make alpha go on commenting for so long. The Price is a big factor here. For this price you will find it difficult to get this fit and finish. remember a guy looking for a family car with features and with a limited budget will most certainly not go for a camry at full price. The Car is smooth and performs very well on Interstates as well as the city roads.Test Drive it to know its features. Everyone who rode this car had a great deal of appreciation. They owned Accords/ Passat/Camry. Agreed its too early too know its resale value. But resale values are far too less anyway as compared to the original values. The more you spend an a car , the more amount you lose . How many minutes will you shave off for the slow accel?. Or how many times do you increase the risk of an accident due to faster speeds/ more accel/ much more power?. Do you need the car to race it against others?. Or do you want a good vehicle to take you to work?. These are the issues you need to examine before you swipe away a car. Time will tell about the success of verona and much will depend on the quality and reliability and service by suzuki. But the Car is certainly making people notice it.

lil302000

Until they have put 6,000 plus miles under the car as I have they need not judge it. I only hope that it is reliable in the long haul. As far as resale I never worry about it I keep them at least ten years if they are not a problem child. I have a wife and three teenage kids and this car to this point seems to be a great one.

gee35coupe

By the same workers, with the same parts. In fact here's what Ward's auto has to say about the pairing.
http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_growing_2/
"Verona is a version of the second-generation Daewoo Magnus, whose previous generation sold under the now-defunct Daewoo brand as the Leganza in the U.S. It now is built by GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Ltd. — a new company comprised of the remains of the old Daewoo Motor Co. Ltd".

That should take care of that debate. Unless you have a better soure of information than that

As far as the "Verona is good enough to overome the Camcord", I think not. I see you guys are stuck on the power thing. Well it goes much farther than that. One of the most important thing it has to overcome is the Suzuki name and reputation. It's got a few years to go before folk will take it seriously. And like I said, the car is already 3 years old.

Again, dont take my word.
"Verona doesn't presume to compete with segment-leaders Camry and Accord, but against less expensive entries from South Korean competitors Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd. and Kia Motors Corp."

They know better.

rasup

True. But to put a worthy piece in the market suzuki has had to done its homework. You refer to wardauto's review. Refer to the following reviews:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/suzuki/verona/100314852/roadtesta- rticle.html?articleId=100585&tid=edmunds.e.roadtests.content.- ..Suzuki*
2.http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/autos/columnists.nsf/Dan+Wiese- /1525C774E0AA99AE86256DD50057B385?opendocument&Headline=Well-- equipped+Suzuki+Verona+is+bargain-priced
3.http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/roadtest,view,Suzuki.spy?ar- tid=19302&pg=1
4. http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- id=7599

These reviews point out the plus and minus of the car. The Car is appreciated overall as u can see.

lil302000

Man this has come way off base from the original post. I guess new management and owners don't count for much in the business world. No one said that Suzuki would bump Toyota or Honda from their perch next week. I think if you give Suzuki a call they will tell you that they intend to compete in the entire mid size sedan market. I also know that if the Korean cars continue with refinements and improvements and keep the friendly pricing that the rest of the market will be forced to react. I will be willing to bet that the base Accords optional air conditioning will soon become a thing of the past, after all 2X55 AC don't sound that refined to me.

alpha01

For the record, I think the new Daewoo... er.. Suzuki Verona is a good entry in this segment, and if you like features, this might very well be the car for you. In terms of competing with the Camcords, the Verona does on some levels, and doesnt on others- such as performance, available safety features, resale value. I think that this car is a good second effort, but I'd be hard pressed to say I'd pick it over a similarly priced Malibu (which offers a much strong V6 that provides better economy, as well as side curtains), or the Sonata, for example. I also would pick an Accord LX or Camry LE over this vehicle, because I personally dont care about features that don't affect performance/safety. I'm not saying I'm right or that everyone should agree. Just that there are some facts that can't be disputed, such as the Verona's lack of passing power and poor fuel economy compared to the segment, the age of the NOT new design.

~alpha

bmcclain

gee35coupe (troll): Interesting, I haven't seen you on the Scion boards complaining about a lack of power and lower gas mileage (Bx). For 2-3 thousand more $$$$ I would easily choose the Verona over a Scion.

Nor have I seen anyone say that the Verona is better than the Camry and Accord.

Conversation engineering your new hobby?

The Magnus (and all variants) are designed for a different market than almost all other midsizes sold in the U.S. Most of them are made in NA for NA only (Galant, Altima, Malibu, Accord, Camry, ect.) - ergo the large engines and large HP which would not work in most of the rest of the world, are NOT sold in the rest of the world. Daewoo's technology with the new engine allows for size increases and in # of pistons... so, if power were such a concern, which it isn't, GMDAT could easily change this. You mentioned the Acura TSX's 200hp from 2.4 liters, great, but for $10,000 more, the law of diminishing returns kicks in massively. The RSX makes 200hp also, but that power is insanely high into the revs, making it impractical, and it has a only 142 ft-lbs of torque vs. the Daewoo's 177. As most people know, torque is more important. Also 2.5l L6 in the Magnus is silky smooth (unlike a 4 revved to 7400rpm) with a fat, long power curve (someone said that the 4-cyl. "Camcords" have better passing power, no, the longer torque curve of the Verona provides this). Plus, the Verona is the price of the others' 4-bangers, which it competes with anyway. The difference in 1 second is trivial, especially to 60 mph. 2 seconds vs. $3000+ dollars? That is a rhetorical question for me. One half of a second (9.5 to 60) "significantly peppier" as you say about the Camry? You call this difference significant, when it couldn't be farther from that. Absolutely not. Significantly more whiny, or the power comes significantly more peaky perhaps. I wish that I could find the glasses that skew information and add such bias, I would become the perfect cynic. Should I bother to ask for yours?

I also noticed the subtle implications of the Suzuki's lesser safety, which isn't true. You also compared the Verona directly to "premium Japanese brands," Please. $40,000+ is clearly out of the park. The Daewoo Magnus had side airbags in Europe and Korea. GMDAT/Suzuki is to blame for their absence in the Verona. When designed/engineered, the Magnus was designed for all 5-star crash results, and the Daewoo Lacetti recently earned the best rating for IIHS offset crash test results (proving that Daewoo's engineering delivers).

gee35coupe

GMDAT could not change the inherent problem with the I6 in FWD applications. It's too big. Heck that's why even BMW is thinking of V6's in RWD applications. Not to mention the I6 is inherently thirsty due to pumping losses. That's why this small displacement engine sems so thirsty.

I guess if you narrow your view to HYPER EXTREME thinness, you can pinhole an idea that the Verona compares to the TSX if you look at ONE characteristic of the two cars. But unfortunately I can't think THAT small.

As far as the last paragraph. Premium is Accord, Camry, or maybe Altima. Accord EX-L is only about $3000 more real world than the Verona and has airbags in the United States. Now. As soon as they are available here on the Verona then I guees that would be worth discussing. But just as the Accord was out of airbag luck last year in the EX (cloth) version, this year the Verona is playing catch-up.

Let's look ahead for the Verona. I wonder where the next one will be built and engineered? The factory where they build the Verona is under probation. They may not be under the GM umbrella in a few years. That along with the car being a
1. Daewoo designed
2. GM/Daewoo built
3. Suzuki nameplated
Vehicle makes you wonder who will get the nod to design the follow-up vehicle. I mean Suzuki has already left more than their fair share of orphans. Esteem, Samuri, Swift. Now lets talk resale.

dnksen

I was doing a search on google to see if anyone else was having problems with their Veronas and I found this site. I was surprised that we seem to be the only ones.
I bought my Verona on the 1st of October. The very first day, I lost 2 hubcaps. Apparently they were defective. The dealership replaced them so we were happy.
Then I started noticing when I would start it up, it would hesitate and I would put it into drive and it wouldn't go. We took it to the dealership and it has some sort of "cold start" issues that the manufacter is working on but have not come up with a fix for just yet.
Then one day I took my daughter to the bus stop for school and my car started smoking, a white smoke that smelled like my car was on fire. We took it in, they had it for 5 days and told us that there was some defective sensors in it. They said the sensors helped gauge how much fuel output it had and apparently it was sending back a message to the car to give it more fuel and the fuel was burning???? I think the people at the dealerships were morons.
So here we are 2 months later and my car was picked up by a tow truck for the 4th time... yes 4th time for the same problem. I don't know what the deal is, but a lemon is what I think we got for $17,000.
Anyone else having problems??? or is it just us

lil302000

I am sorry to hear about your troubles. I don't know what state you live in, I am here in Ohio and lemon laws do provide recourse for for a situation of repeated like problems. I think this could be an option for you to investigate. My uncle was able to return his Toyota pick up under the lemon law. Just so this don't start a truck debate, Toyota makes a fine truck and I know many people that drive them with not a problem one. A vehicle is a major investment for most us and you should not have to be picked up by a tow truck 4 times with a new vehicle. By the way I don't buy into the sensor thing as well. I have had my Verona since October as well and no problems to report.