The Verona is the same car as the Verona, except better. Suzuki sent over quality control workers to GMDAT in S. Korea to make sure that it'll pass as Japanese quality. Car and Driver said that it is built more solid than any Daewoo ever and passes greatly with the same quality build as Honda's or Toyota's.
"Also 2.5l L6 in the Magnus is silky smooth (unlike a 4 revved to 7400rpm) with a fat, long power curve (someone said that the 4-cyl. "Camcords" have better passing power, no, the longer torque curve of the Verona provides this). Plus, the Verona is the price of the others' 4-bangers, which it competes with anyway. The difference in 1 second is trivial, especially to 60 mph. 2 seconds vs. $3000+ dollars? That is a rhetorical question for me. One half of a second (9.5 to 60) "significantly peppier" as you say about the Camry? You call this difference significant, when it couldn't be farther from that. Absolutely not. Significantly more whiny, or the power comes significantly more peaky perhaps."
1. Motor Trend's fastest Camry 4 auto managed 9.2 to 60, and their slowest, 9.5, as you state. So at the Camry's worst, this is 1.2 seconds faster than Car and Driver managed with the Verona. Thats not "one-half second". When compared to the Accord, the difference grows even more. Perhaps this difference isnt noticeable or important to you, but in NJ, with fast moving traffic, it is important to me.
2. You speak of the Verona's 177 lb. ft. equating to faster passing times than the Camcord 4s. The absolute number would lead you to believe that the Suzuki might be faster and offer better passing response, but when you take into account the Verona's very high curb weight, the advantage of higher torque is gone. Look at the Verona's 30-50 and 50-70 passing times. They are terrible, slower than the LAST GENERATION, UNDERPOWERED 136 hp Camry 4 cylinder (check C/D Sept. 99). The current Accord and Camry 4 autos will offer better passing response than the Verona, period. Have you seen the power/torque curves for these engines? Honda and Toyota employ a little bit technology called variable valve timing, which spreads the torque over a more usable band, which I'm sure you know. The 2.4s in the Accord and Camry are FAR from peaky, and are NOT unrefined.
3. Because the Verona is slow and overweight, this takes a toll on fuel economy vs. the Camcord 4s, and even V6s. In the case of the 4s, we're not talking one or two MPG, we're talking about 5, again, significant enough to make a difference, at least to buyers like me.
4. Wheres the safety features on this "new vehicle". Nevermind side curtains, this thing doesnt even offer side airbags! Forget about stability control.....
Not for anything, it seems that you are doing more "skewing" of the facts than gee....
dnksen, sorry to hear you are having problems. I would camp out on the dealers door until something was done.I would also write Mr. Rick Suzuki, President of American Suzuke Motors Corporation at P.O. Box 1100, Brea CA 92822 and tell him of the problems. Call customer service for Suzuke at 800-934-0934. I think if you contact enough people you will get results. Tell them what is wrong, what you want done including a loaner car and give them a reasonable time to repair or replace your vehicle. If that does not work start with the BBB, the owner of the of the dealership where you purchased the Verona, the district manager of the dealership, the CEO of GMDAT and then the CEO of GM. This is the route I would take. I hope everything works out for you. Ken
Folks, let's remember that the topic of this discussion is a single vehicle. This is not the place to continue to argue that other vehicles are somehow "better" than the subject here.
Please go to the Comparisons board and create any discussion you believe appropriate for that sort of thing.
Specific comparisons aside the Verona is lacking several features that would make it more attractive to the family sedan buyer. Side airbags are available on smaller cars why doesn't Suzuki/GM/Daewoo/whoever at least offer them as an option on the Verona. Do they think the Verona buyer is more concerned with leather and wheels than safety? I can see ommitting things like stability and traction control but not airbags that are a $250 option on some cars.
Sorry I messed up and didn't complete the last post by me. I think the Lemon law states something about an attempt to repair the same problem 3 times with out success and a certain amount of time one has to do without the automobile. The Lemon law info may be obtained from your Suzuke dealer, or any automobile dealer. The Suzuki dealer here in Melbourne, FL is also the Chrysler dealer. I purchased a 99 Chrysler Concorde from the dealer new in 99 and still go there for service, which I might add is very good!! My Verona EX has a bad seat belt in the RR passenger position and they did not have one in stock, it was ordered and repaired in 3 days. At present I have less that 800 miles on the Veona and less than 38000 on the Concorde. I just sold a 94 Ranger XLT with 160,000 miles in October when I purchased the Verona, which I love so far.
I have checked into our Lemon Laws, we live in Missouri and we have to let them try it 4 times, if it still isn't fixed we have to send them a certified letter stating that they have a final time to try to fix it, so basically they get 5 chances. And then if they don't fix it, they can determine it to be a lemon. ughhh. It is so frusterating. My husband called Suzuki the first time this all happened and he has been in contact with the Suzuki district manager since then. But today, once he mentioned the lemon law and getting an attorney, he hasn't receieved a call back... hmmmmm, wonder what that is all about. I wish they would just take the car and give us another one. This seems crazy that we are having all these problems with a vehicle with only a tad bit over 2,000 miles on it. Don't get me wrong... I LOVE the Verona, I love the way it drives (when it does) and I love the interior the exterior (I have black and it looks awesome) but I can't stand this much longer. It smokes so bad you cannot see anything around you. ughhh, hopefully we will know something soon. I will keep you all updated and cross my fingers that you don't have problems with your Veronas.
I purchased a new Verona three days ago and am hardly qualified to compare with other cars since it will replace our 1994 Chevy Caprice. What I have noticed is a surprisingly quiet idle, not much torque, much better shifting than one road test suggested, and an attractive style. The style is influenced me to buy the car from a remote dealer rather than a more powerful new Chevy Malibu sold locally. I just could not get myself to feel good about looking at the Malibu. The only Verona surprise has been the very large number of convenience features. Until I sat in the car for an hour going through the owner's manual page-by-page, I had no idea so many niceties came with the car.
Gee35, my point exactly. The Scion Bx averages $16,000, has 108hp, only gets 28mpg for such a trade off in power, and is a small car. Maybe you should pay them a visit.
I only compared the Verona to the TSX because you were touting its brilliant engineering (squeezing that much power out of a large 4) at the Verona's expense but failed to point out the $10,000 price difference (the same amount between a base V. and a base Accord EX V-6 2-dr). I helped you out, that's all. I think, however, that the "thinness" of the acceleration time difference is blown to a "hyper extreme."
My definition of "premium brands" is different, but you clarified yours. However, I am looking at opportunity cost. So the Accord has side airbags for $3,000 more. The Verona can have them with a change of the seat (which is already sold) for the same price (still $3000 savings over a stripper Accord) or a few hundred dollars more. I will join you and mail them (Suzuki, GMDAT, and even the seat supplier) a letter if you wish, to add side airbags to the Verona. I am not pleased with this omission either. Suzuki should listen.
The future of the Verona is certain. GM must buy the output from the Bupyeong factory for 6 years, with around 5 remaining. Either GM spends for the development of a new car, which will be the next Verona, or the current Verona will be sold here until the term ends. The Verona is a key part of Suzuki's grand expansion plan.
Alpha01, While I suspect that this has all come about by gee35's intricate conversation planning, I have no problem with anyone placing such importance on acceleration times (weight or fuel use). I do, however, have a problem when those opinions are blown out of proportion and used to persuade others. I think you would agree, theoretically, especially if I were to say that the Camry is ugly campared to the handsome Italian styling of the most beautiful Verona... certainly so on a Camry board.
Again, if you view of safety hangs on side airbags, then the Verona can easily be fixed by GM/Suzuki. Also, after a few visits to the popular SUV board, the more weight = safer. So, buy a Verona and crush the smaller midsizes with the Daewoo's glorious masses of nicely styled steel! Only they will need side airbags. IMO, from careful observation, side curtains are usually used in place of side body airbags (which cover the head anyway in Korean cars) and do not protect the body (where all of the other important organs are stored).
With the fast moving traffic in New Jersey, is it not common to simply cut someone off? And if they dare challenge the Verona, they will be crushed by its massive weight. Problem solved. Joking aside, I stand by "1 second is trivial." So the Camry is 1.2 seconds quicker. Please place that 1.2 seconds into context. Watch a clock with a seconds hand and see how quickly that time passes by. Watch the clock go to 9.5 seconds (or even 9.2, THAT difference isn't even discernable) and then to 10.7. One second. Nothing. Gone in a flash. How long does it take to earn $3000? All the same, I am certain that you have a computer with a 3.5 ghz processor, heaven forbid that even though a 2.8 ghz costs half as much, a second or so slower at the most extensive applications will not do. Another observation of mine, in all of my few years of driving, I have seldom met instances where I needed full use of a 0-60 time. Yet that is me. Perhaps I don't pull out in front of other cars with the slimmest of margins and so on (I am not implying that you do), but that would be the case.
You mentioned losing hubcaps...the issue is that Daewoo hubcaps are made of Nylon rather than ABS plastic. This means they are very tough and pretty much impossible to damage, but the catch is that the clips are flexible and tend to bend over on installation if you try to pound the cap onto the wheel like usual. What you need to do is use a large flat screwdriver to force the last clip into place when you install the cap so it doesn't just bend over. I suggest that those of you who own base Veronas with full hubcaps get in the habit of removing the caps yourself before bringing the car in for service, and then installing them yourself so you know it's done right. Just some friendly advice from your local hubcap dealer :-)
I have the verona since a month. No such problems.It runs fine. I have heard of minor cold starts in discussions. Perhaps its the fuel. Verona's manual recommends gasoline not less than 87 octane. Also there should be no MMC ( additives) in the fuel. If the vehicle has been driven with MMC fuel you are asked by Suzuki to contact the dealer immediately. There is no reference to smoking problem.The dealer and Suzuki must address your problem to get the matter straight.Have you tried emailing america suzuki with a copy to suzuki japan?. I wish you good luck.
"The Verona can have them with a change of the seat (which is already sold) for the same price (still $3000 savings over a stripper Accord) or a few hundred dollars more." What? Don't you mean, theorhetically, the Verona can have side airbags with a change of seats? OH Right. That helps the consumer in the market today.
You claim that most cars with side curtains have them in place of side airbag- not really; it only seems this way on GM and Chrysler models. All Toyota and Hondas with side curtains, also have side torso bags, that covers most of the important organs.
There is a very big difference between driving a car that can easily keep up with traffic, or a car that stuggles to do so. 1.2 seconds is definitely a big enough difference to feel through the seat of the pants. But thank you for relenting in your argument that the Verona offers better passing power than its competitors. I'm guessing you now realize it doesnt.
And finally, you are welcome to call the Camry or Accord or whichever car... ugly. Styling is subjective.
The BX is a box on wheels. How in any way does that compare to the Verona other than seats and brakes? It doesn't make sense to even bring it up.
As for the second paragraph....Huh? Clarify please.
Airbags require much more than a "change of seat". There are computers and software and safety testing. Which probably would have driven the price much higher then $250 per car if they plan on selling only 20,000 of them. Another case of extremely narrow thinking.
The future is far from certain. This car was "given" to Suzuki. The next car will have to be engineered from the ground up. I'd be willing to bet the next car will have MUCH more GM in it than say...Ital Design.
Accelleration has not been blown any more out of perportion than smoothness or price. Or the "how long does it take to earn $3000".
Here a couple of problems associated with white smoke. The first one is a bad transmission shift modulator and the second is a cracked head, cracked cylinder wall, or blown head gasket. You stated that it smelled like it was electrical a blown head gasket or head and block troubles will usually have a sweet smell due to the burning of anti freeze. The bad shift modulator will allow transmission fluid into the cylinders and burn it.
Hey guys, this topic is becoming as hot as the Daewoo topics used to be. As I see it, the GM/Suzuki intervention in the Magnus has resulted in much inferior models called the Verona and Epica for the NA markets. The floaty suspension has resulted in handling compromises with a skidpad of 0.75 compared to the original 0.81 for the Leganza, and the GM tranny has resulted in wiping out the benefit of the 2.5 I6. This is an amazing engine if it is mated to a proper transmission. So basically GM has taken a fine Daewoo car and ruined it. If you like the Verona, I suggest you go on ebay and buy yourself a slightly used Leganza for a couple of thousand dollars. The Leganza remains the only Daewoo built vehicle worth driving.
Its GMs fault that the Daewoo Verona weighs 3500lbs? Thats the real acceleration culprit, not GMs transmission.
The Verona is head and shoulders above the Leganza. Who cares about skidpad? Transient manuevers are a much better gauge of handling ability. Throw a set of better tires on the Verona, and you'll get back up to .80.
Actually, the Verona did .78g on C&D's skidpad. They also commended the Verona on not having the typical Korean floaty handling. They said most of the float and roll had been baked out.
Scion Bx CAMCORDS 0-60 9.5 sec 0-60 10.7 sec Skidpad of 0.75 .08 for the Leganza .78 on C&D Skidpad Better tires get back to .88 2 seconds VS $3000 Dollars
I could compare one automobile with others all day and still find PRO's and CON's with most any given automobile. There are many automobiles manufactured to please the many different buyers. In most cases, why criticize something one has no interest in? ie.. don't own a Suzuki Verona but wants to put it down for minute items. Safety items excluded, as I am sure it could have had more safety items, but then there are other cars that lack safety items also that are sold everyday. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Still love that Verona........ Just my thoughts, not intended to upset anyone.. Ken
I think Accord v. Camry v. Verona is a pretty apples to apples comparison. I'm not sure how a niche vehicle like xB entered the argument. (It is just as underpowered as the Verona, for what its worth).
The Verona is a good entry in the market. It suffers compared to the rest of the segment in terms of safety features, fuel economy, acceleration, and resale.
The verona has not yet suffered. It is a 2004 vehicle. The vehicle is yet to get a grip on the market. Does Accord give you 7 yr warantee?. Accord/ Camry are vehicles tune and improved over so many years. They have to be refined. The Verona is new. I am sure with time and research it will be better. The Price is an important factor. If people can get a good transportation vehicle with all features as standard at a lower price you cant blame the company for lower prices.Resale?. How many years have accord and Camry been around?. New Vehicles are difficult to predict and this depends on the performance and service. Any way a higher priced vehicle will make you lose MORE amount of dollars in depreciation than a lower priced one. If one wants more power,accel there are other vehicles in the market that are better than accord or camry. Each car has a plus and minus. Good points of any car have to be appreciated. The buyer makes the choice. Verona is a Good Car..no doubt about that.
That is an argument that makes sense. Thanks, rasup.
In terms of depreciation, it is percentages that are of concern, and accordingly, the alleged greater dollar value lost on the more expensive car may not be the case. If after 4 years, a $24K Accord EX-L loses 54% of its value and a $20K Verona EX loses loses 67% (these are actual figures from Kiplingers), then the Accord owner loses $13440 to depreciation, and the Verona owner loses $13400. 40 dollars is hardly noteworthy.
The buyer does make the choice, and the Veronas recipe is a lot of features for not a lot of cash. I'd perfer a better engineered vehicle, personally.
It all comes down to pricing as you say. I am not sure how the pricing compares in the USA, but here in Canada, GM has NOT priced the Verona/Epica properly. The top of the line model is $28,000 CAD. The top of the line Altima, Accord 4Cyl cars are $28,000. So the only advantage GM/Suzuki has is with the I6, but that has similar output numbers to the Altimas/Accord 4 bangers, but with a worse tranny. The base model Suzuki sells for $23,000 CAD, and the Chevy version Epica for $25,500, compared to the base model Altima $24,500. Not much difference. So these new woos are priced similar to Japanese, not Korean cars here in Canada. The only way GM/Suzuki will be able to sell it here is by offering huge discounts/incentives or zero interest rates. What it comes down to is that the new woo costs $5000 CAD more than my Leganza did (Comparing fully loaded models). I guess GM Daewoo wants to make some profit from these cars at last, but will it work?
What is it with the aversion to clicking on a previous page and reading? Is it too hard? Cost too much? Take more precious seconds vs. not finding out for oneself and asking a question on the obvious?
I said to g35: “Interesting, I haven't seen you on the Scion boards complaining about a lack of power and lower gas mileage (Bx).”
“You haven't seen me on the Scion boards....Period. by gee35coupe”
“Gee35, my point exactly. The Scion Bx averages $16,000, has 108hp, only gets 28mpg for such a trade off in power, and is a small car. Maybe you should pay them a visit.”
If he is here complaining about such things with the Verona, why not the Scion? Is it not almost the same price? Is the fuel economy of the bX not lower than the norm for that class? Is it not underpowered? Using the logic that you have (spend $3000+ more on an Accord), why not do the same over a Scion, a Verona is far more for the money? Are you not there either, Alpha "I like numbers!" 01, reciting your statistics and 0-60 times from Car and Driver?
Perhaps it is impossible for either of you to ponder on a question. The answer to this mind-boggling enigma is: YES, you both should be there. If the insignificant difference between a Camry and a Verona under full-acceleration bothers you that much, I expect a barrage of posts on the bX board.
Speaking of that insignificance, you, alpha01, have yet to even begin to apply those acceleration statistics to the real world with any such examples or logic. You have failed to give any reason as to how 1.2 seconds is “definitely a big enough difference” to notice. Except for letting us know that without being coddled by 1 second in maximum acceleration times, you would fail as a driver, where 98% of everyone else has no trouble driving, and that the seat of your pants is the new de facto standard.
That other 98% is made up by: the Scion owners, Verona owners, myself (Daewoo Nubira), and many others who do not ,and have not had a problem with acceleration or passing. Look on either of the boards and you will see they are quite satisfied. (As I have pointed out, this whole tangent had not come up until G35 started posting). From your collection of Car and Drivers, flip to the performance data pages (yellow and white as you know) and find the Nubira. Exactly, and I have no problem what so ever. What are the performance numbers for whatever you drive? Not only that, but I drive 80%+ on two-lane roads and have to pass multiple cars with on-coming traffic frequently. Your "fast-paced" traffic is on multiple lanes where its easy. So, I am more qualified in passing, and I know from real-world experience that 1 second is insignificant.
Also, it is pointless to say that the Camry has better passing power, or the Verona, without driving both, and PASSING with them. I simply recognized this sooner than you. Along the same vein, you learned that the Verona’s increased weight pays off in safety. You like to think that your world of statistics is the same as reality, when it isn’t. Knowing statistics is next to nothing, knowing how to use and apply them is everything (a lot of people have this problem, see an IIHS offset crash test "best pick" zealot). How much heavier is the Verona to the Camry? A few hundred pounds? What is your proof and even the basis for your assumption that the weight is the "real acceleration culprit?" The characteristics and behaviors (plus gear ratios) of an automatic transmission make a huge difference in acceleration, economy, and so on. I have not compared the two Magnus versions (w/differing transmissions), and neither have you. All the same, that one second of difference is still negligible!
"And finally, you are welcome to call the Camry or Accord or whichever car... ugly. Styling is subjective."
As I said: “I have no problem with anyone placing such importance on acceleration times (weight or fuel use). I do, however, have a problem when those opinions are blown out of proportion and used to persuade others. I think you would agree, theoretically, especially if I were to say that the Camry is ugly campared to the handsome Italian styling of the most beautiful Verona... certainly so on a Camry board.”
You are clearly blowing this out of proportion, using it to persuade others, and not backing it up with anything other that a magazine statistic, which you do not know how to apply into the real world. I find it unfortunate that you do not realize that the exaggerated Camry example is about your actions.
“Don't you mean, theorhetically, the Verona can have side airbags with a change of seats? OH Right. That helps the consumer in the market today.”
Thanks for pointing out the obvious, alpha. What, you are holding me accountable for the Verona not having side airbags in it? Is there a wand of some sort that I have, a magical ability? Are you mistaking me for someone who does not want side airbags in the Verona? Why not do something about it and mail Suzuki and GMDAT a letter at the least?
G35coupe, it shows how little you know about the airbags. The only "narrow thinking" is yours. The Daewoo Magnus has the same computers, crash software, and wiring and the Suzuki Verona. The Magnus is sold with side airbags. They changed the seat and removed the fuse. Nothing more. Insert new seat, plug in fuse, recalibrate.
In the second paragraph of my last post, you fail to recognize your own words (indicated by the “” as they usually are) and previous comparison that you made, with the TSX’s engine output. I guess “Huh?” is a valid response now to make things go away. Please re-read. It's easy and helpful.
"The future is far from certain."
No, the future in the car market in the next few years, which the Verona will still be sold, as I have explained in detail. Future = certain.
"I'd be willing to bet the next car will have MUCH more GM in it"
Shall I mock you, or only point out how obvious that is? You are also thinking that this will incite anger in Daewoo owners
"Accelleration has not been blown any more out of perportion than smoothness or price. Or the 'how long does it take to earn $3000'."
Yes it has. You see g35, it takes a large portion of time to earn $3,000, whether it be an entire day, a month, or even a year. If alpha01 is bent out of shape over 1.2 seconds, the time it takes to earn $3,000 should send him over the edge...
Slow up a sec, there's no need to get personal. It's fine to disagree, but let's not get too close to attacking others over differing opinions. Take a few deep breaths and avoid the sarcasm.
I will stand staunchly by my points. The Verona is a good entry in this class. At the same 20K price point, it is behind the class leaders in terms of acceleration, fuel economy, safety features, and resale value. It is ahead of the class in terms of pricing/features parity and to some eyes, including my own, front and profile styling (not a big fan of the rear). Build quality seems very good and Suzukis warranty offers and extra piece of mind.
bmcclain, if you followed your own advice (by sifting through previous posts), you'd find that I stated the the bX is indeed underpowered, and I dont think its acceleration is competitive with other vehicles in the same class. However, equipped with an automatic, the bX is on par with the Verona, offering similar acceleration with about 10 MPG more.
For the record, I used to drive a 2000 Camry 4 cylinder, capable of running to 60 in 10.5 seconds, similar to the Verona and bX, and in NJ, I found it adequate at best. The difference from that to the current Camry 4 cylinder is practically night and day. This is what I base the significane of 1- 1.5 seconds on. Given that the Verona accelerates similarly (actually a bit worse under Car and Driver's feet)to the old Camry 4, I make my comments that 1.5 seconds is enough to feel.
I dont think I'm blowing anything out of proportion. I'm not the one ranting on in excessively long posts. I recognize the Verona's good qualities- smooth, quiet ride, decent looks, excellent warranty, nicely trimmed interior (though steering wheel looks cheap), lots of features for the price. It seems that you bmcclain, cannot accept the areas where the Verona falters.
I understand your frustrations. I (like you) recently purchased a Verona and came across this board to satisfy a hunger for information about the car, which is scarce. I'm also very happy with my purchase and it is frustrating to see the car get dissed by those who are judging it purely on paper. But you know what, they are very knowledgeable and I'm learning a lot.
People who come to this post looking for information to decide whether to purchase a Verona can judge for themselves and all the contributions are helpful.
Personally, I have no complaints about the powertrain. In the first week it did seem like the tranny was not always in the right gear and I was bit concerned. But it must adjust because lately (I have 1600 miles on it) I'm very happy with it. Perhaps a 5th gear would be good for highway trips, but for around town and commuting in traffic, I think I like the fact that it gets into fourth quick and doesn't need to go anywhere else.
A couple days ago my "check engine" light went on. Anyone else have that problem? The manual says it can be caused by bad fuel or having the cap not tight. Manual says it may go away with a fuel up. I noticed nothing wrong with performance. I plan to bring it back to the dealer in another day or two if the light doesn't go off. Otherwise, my wife complains about the climate control system. Usually we leave it off the auto mode.
I am considering a Verona. Acceleration and skid pad stats mean almost nothing to me. For those who do emphasize these things when contemplating the value of a vehicle, more power to you (no pun intended)...that's cool and it keeps life interesting.
One of the issues with the Verona that may have me hesitating is the mileage. Environmentally and economically, the less than great #'s are cause for concern. How are those of you already sitting in the Verona's driver seat finding the fuel consumption relative to the "reported" figures?
jkobty: several posts back you cited GM selling the top of the line Verona/Epica at 28K. accurate indeed for the epica but the GLX Verona (canada's top model) is $25 700. and knowing suzuki, you hit the nail on the head in mentioning the possibility of substantial inscentives. from where i am standing, the verona keeps pulling me back in from an overall value perspective based on my criteria.
The Verona is a nice $16,000-$18,000 sedan. But it would never make it as a $22,000-$27,000 sedan and I think most of us know that. Instead of trying to say that the Verona is a better sedan than the more expensive cars in it's class admit that it is a nice sedan for the price. Because if Suzuki tried to sell this car for $24,000 they probably wouldn't sell 5000 Veronas here.
I have about 800 miles and I now am getting about 17 mpg (just today I filled it up). I am told by the dealer salesperson that it may take up to 2000 - 2500 miles before it reaches it full potential of the 20 - 28 mpg. I have not had mine on a trip yet. Was going to this month, but that has been cancelled. Don't know now when I will take it on the road. Have not had a check engine light. I do have a rattle somewhere in the window, passenger door or that area when I am on a rough or bumpy road. I will get that checked soon. I also have no problems with the shifting of the transmission, (sometime I have to watch for the dip in the RPM to see when it shifts) and read that it adjust to ones driving habit, and someone here said if the battery is disconnected it looses the memory and has to start over for a shift pattern which makes sense.
If I am correctly understanding your post, then I think your approach to evaluating this "debate" is dead on.
Not sure if this is redundant (if it is I apologize), but the $25 695 I mentioned previously as the price of the GLX Verona is in Canadian dollars (not U.S.)
And though we pay more for certain products here in Canada, when it comes to cars (cost against income in relative terms), we are fortunate enough to be among the most competitive in the world.
Whew !! I came here to try to make a decision one way or the other...Verona or Camry? Verona or Accord? Verona or ??? But some of you guys..please keep your blood pressure under control...sheesh!! It's not exactly a 'life defineing' discussion here. I think it's a very attractive car inside and out. I drove one and found it pleasing in that it's quiet and handles well. And I loved the fact that I could make a full u-turn in the street with ease. I am currently driving a 2000 Maxima V-6. Of course I noticed the difference in power immediately. I'm trying not to let that influence me too much. However, I have to drive 30 miles to work and back daily on the Garden State Parkway. I was hoping for better gas mileage. I'd appreciate it if some of you folks who have a decent amount of break-in miles on their Veronas' would tell me what the MPG is at sustained speeds of 60-70 mph. Being female and over 35 I'm not a speed freak but one has to move with the flow of traffic or get run over. Anyway, my Maxima gets about 23 mpg, I was hoping for something better. And to 'Veronaowner,' what specifically is it about the climate control that your wife dislikes? Thanks :>)
CSJB, the catch is that the Verona here in Canada does not come with all the features of the Epica LT. The top model Verona GLX is the same as the Epica LS which also sells for $25,700 CAD, but these models do not get leather trim and other features only available for the Epica LTat $28,000.
She's always cold (no pun intended) and in the auto mode it doesn't seem to crank out the heat, so she takes it off auto and cranks up to 85 or 90 or whatever the max is. I guess that's no different than any other manual climate control system where you slide it all the way over to the high heat setting.
As far as gas mileage goes, I posted many pages back that I took a 600 round trip when the car had less than 1,000 miles on it. It was a disappointing 23 mpg on the way, but I was pleasantly surprised to attain 28.5 on the way back ...and keeping up with traffic I was cruising at 75 to 80 mph. Last tank around town was about 18 mpg.
Excellent Alpha, I feel that we have made great inroads. I do see your position on the bX (For a large part, that was to G35), but the bX is a small car while the Verona is a large midsize, so 10mpg is not much difference vs. the trade offs.
I went through and compiled a list of words and phrases used to describe the Verona: "a good deal in arrears, terrible, slow and overweight, stuggles, suffers, falters." I find that these words are extreme and unnecesarily used in place of more moderate terms (especially when actual owners descriptions differ). I am veteran of the infamous Daewoo message boards, were several would drop in and use similar tactics to stir everything up (you can tell from my post #203). You recently described the acceleration as "adequate," which is far more like it. I am very pleased that we are offered your real world comparison. I never doubted that the difference existed, but it definately does not to the extent that the words above describe (which has blown it out of proportion).
When I posted the first post I was not intending it to be a comparison between the leading models. All I was saying is that if these Korean cars are a success than that is good for us as consumers. I feel that as you approach $30,000 for these smallish mid size cars you are paying to much. While the Korean cars are behind the leaders in some aspects they do offer value per dollar and if they are proven to be reliable than maybe just maybe the high price that we pay may slow down from model year to model year.
Thanks. Although, I dont exactly understand, as my opinion of the Verona has not changed. The areas in which the Verona suffers/falters compared to similarly priced family cars are acceleration, fuel economy, safety features, and resale. The Verona IS overweight for the class, which mitigates any authoratative prospects of the smooth straight six, as well as hurting fuel consumption. Acceleration is adequate, but given my experience with a similarly powered vehicle, it will struggle under some conditions, and overall, for the class, it is underpowered. I do concede that the word "terrible" was a bit too harsh, but the others in your list... I still feel apply.
It is up to the buyer to weigh these "cons" against the Verona's multiple positives [features per dollar, somewhat distinctive styling, room, composed (though not agile) handling, quiet, etc.]
I could be wrong but I think you might want to take another look at the comparison between trim levels of the Verona/Epica.
I've driven both models and you can check the specs at their respective websites.
The Epica LS is the Verona GL, right from the 15 inch wheels on up.
The top of the line Chevy (LT) is pretty much the same as the Verona (GLX). As you mention, the LT does have leather, the GLX does not. I can take or leave leather surfaces in a car, so the price difference is not worth it.
I've also read in some of the reviews that the Suzuki has a better suspension system (rear?) than the Epica, though I'm not an expert and don't know for certain.
I have no allegance to either Chevy or Suzuki but the Verona clearly seems a better value than the Epica (a point that comes up regularly in Canadian source reviews of the twins).
Anyone who thinks airbag technology is simple enough to "change the seats and pull the fuse" obviously has no idea the enginering that goes into a well designed airbag system.
But then again the Bx is a comparison to the Verona. Huh?
It doesn't matter though. Suzuki only wants to sell 20,000 of them this year. I predict even that small target won't keep em from having incentives.
Actually, that person is right: the Verona does still contain the side airbag chip. No general parts of the Magnus were changed except for the rear taillights, stereo system, transmission, and front buckets, and gauges. There is a wire underneath the center console which leads to the underside of the seats. The plug (probably where the wire comes out) has been sealed shut with plastic and carpeting. If you could order a Magnus chair from Korea, then you'd get side airbags. WOW! I didn't even know that was possible....
If having side airbags is that simple then you have to wonder why side airbags were not even offered as an option. I mean it's soooo much less expensive than other cars you would think GM/Suzuki would have enough wiggle room to offer a $250 side airbag option. Hmmm...
CSJB, the Suzuki is definitely the better value. The Chevy version is overpriced to say the least. However, I was arguing the price difference with a Chevy dealer last week regarding the Epica LT with leather, and he said: "If I give it to you for $25,000, would we make a deal today?" So it looks like even Chevy is going to have to reduce the price substantially for a knowledgeable customer. The Suzuki Verona has a nicer front Grille and headlights, while the rear lights look old. The Chevy's Grille stinks(same body color as the rest of the car, instead of being a chrome grille), but the rear lights are much nicer. To make things even more interesting, my Daewoo dealer who is now also a Suzuki dealer is offering to the customers who prefer the Daewoo badging to rebadge the Verona as a Daewoo Magnus! and he has done so for 2 customers already. Is this legal?
Veronaowner.. I too notice a mild jarring rattle when the car passes a rough patch of road. It seems some sheet metal area or cladding achieves resonance in vibration. Have you check it yet?. Do let me know. As far as mileage the car is too new to comment and i have yet to test its mileage. There is no engine check light problem. There are minor occasions of cold start.The Cars ride seems to improve as the miles log on. I love the new car. I had a maxima and Verona has not disapointed me so far...
jkobty...you mentioned Suzuki dealers rebadging the Verona as a Daewoo Magnus? I might be interested in doing this as well. What dealer/state did you see this in?
Regarding the legalities, I wouldn't know, though I might be able to get an interesting perspective from an interesting source.
Good friend of the family is a corporate lawyer and one of her main clients is Suzuki Canada. She's pretty tight with Suzuki's senior executives and recently attended a political function with one of the VP's (that's actually what got me looking at the Verona). I'll be seeing her next week and I'll get her take on it.
eus777...I'm in the same boat; Verona or Accord...I'll be interested to see which way you decide to go. Good luck.
I think I have located the rattle. Not in the door but in the Sun/Moon roof frame on passenger side of the Sun/Moon roof. Looks like a frame cover that moves with the glass is loose somehow and moves or vibrates when driving over rough roads. Holding my hand on that strip or cover will eliminate the rattle. It does seem to resonate as at times it also sounds as if the noise is from the back seat/window area. I have an appointment with the dealer Monday. Will post the results after that.
We have about 2500 miles on it now and the wife (and I)are still very pleased with the vehicle. For us, the choice was between a fully loaded Corolla or the Verona. They both cost about the same. Actually, there are some things on the Verona that you can't even get on the Corolla, so the question was which one to buy for 19K. It wasn't much of a choice. The Verona is a better buy for sure. And if I wanted a little more power, etc., I could have spent several thousands more and got a Camry or Accord. I am happy with a little less power and a lot less cash outlay. We traded in a Passat with the VR6 and manual transmission. It was a blast to drive. The Verona is a different type of vehicle and we are enjoying the quiet, rifined, solid and more luxurious feel it provides.
Some specifics: Mileage has been running between 20-23 mpg around town, which includes more freeway driving and not a lot of stop and go. My wife took it over the mountains for a 300 mile trip recently and got 27 mpg. A little less than the Passat but I attribute that to the auto tranny and slight increase in weight.
No rattles, squeaks or blinking lights so far. My wife does get a little frustrated how to use the automatic climate control but I told her she just needs to read the manual. I do frequently find myself touning off the radio becasue of the location of the controls on the steering wheel but I guess that is my problem.
I have been buying new cars for 40 years and have owned a variety of foreign and domestic brands. Unless the Verona suddenly turns into a lemon, I feel that this car would be highly satisfactory for 95% of the car driving public and an excellent value, all things considered.
Does anyone know any information about the new 2005 Suzuki Reno: their first crossover?? It's going to be revealed at the 2004 NAIAS. Any info would be great!
cjsb, if you are interested...Pick up a copy of MOTOR TREND 2004/2005 NEW CAR buyer's guide. There is a article on Accord vs. Camry vs. Altima. I am comparing all of these to each other and to the Verona. They all get the same or slightly better mpg than the Verona and all have considerably better 0-60 mph times. BUT.. none of them have all of the options that the Verona has for any where near the price. Also I consider the Verona better looking inside and out. The Nissan Altima is the only other one of these four remotely attractive to me as far as exterior goes. But with nearly every option (in the 4 cyl.SL) you still don't get ABS or a sunroof or side air bags without paying thousands more. (all one package) And the LX Honda and LE Camry do not have 4 wheel discs.(another extra package) I wish the Verona had a bit more pep and a bit better gas mileage and that we could predict the reliability. But even so, the more I compare looks, options and price,the more I think I'm going to end up with a Verona. A beautiful, shinny, black one. I've been quoted a price of $18,880.00. The money I save on the Verona EX will buy A LOT of extra gasoline. I may lease for 3 years, then if it developes a bad reputation I won't have to worry about struggling with resale.
Comments
"Also 2.5l L6 in the Magnus is silky smooth (unlike a 4 revved to 7400rpm) with a fat, long power curve (someone said that the 4-cyl. "Camcords" have better passing power, no, the longer torque curve of the Verona provides this). Plus, the Verona is the price of the others' 4-bangers, which it competes with anyway. The difference in 1 second is trivial, especially to 60 mph. 2 seconds vs. $3000+ dollars? That is a rhetorical question for me. One half of a second (9.5 to 60) "significantly peppier" as you say about the Camry? You call this difference significant, when it couldn't be farther from that. Absolutely not. Significantly more whiny, or the power comes significantly more peaky perhaps."
1. Motor Trend's fastest Camry 4 auto managed 9.2 to 60, and their slowest, 9.5, as you state. So at the Camry's worst, this is 1.2 seconds faster than Car and Driver managed with the Verona. Thats not "one-half second". When compared to the Accord, the difference grows even more. Perhaps this difference isnt noticeable or important to you, but in NJ, with fast moving traffic, it is important to me.
2. You speak of the Verona's 177 lb. ft. equating to faster passing times than the Camcord 4s. The absolute number would lead you to believe that the Suzuki might be faster and offer better passing response, but when you take into account the Verona's very high curb weight, the advantage of higher torque is gone. Look at the Verona's 30-50 and 50-70 passing times. They are terrible, slower than the LAST GENERATION, UNDERPOWERED 136 hp Camry 4 cylinder (check C/D Sept. 99). The current Accord and Camry 4 autos will offer better passing response than the Verona, period. Have you seen the power/torque curves for these engines? Honda and Toyota employ a little bit technology called variable valve timing, which spreads the torque over a more usable band, which I'm sure you know. The 2.4s in the Accord and Camry are FAR from peaky, and are NOT unrefined.
3. Because the Verona is slow and overweight, this takes a toll on fuel economy vs. the Camcord 4s, and even V6s. In the case of the 4s, we're not talking one or two MPG, we're talking about 5, again, significant enough to make a difference, at least to buyers like me.
4. Wheres the safety features on this "new vehicle". Nevermind side curtains, this thing doesnt even offer side airbags! Forget about stability control.....
Not for anything, it seems that you are doing more "skewing" of the facts than gee....
~alpha
and tell him of the problems. Call customer service for Suzuke at 800-934-0934. I think if you contact enough people you will get results. Tell them what is wrong, what you want done including a loaner car and give them a reasonable time to repair or replace your vehicle. If that does not work start with the BBB, the owner of the of the dealership where you purchased the Verona, the district manager of the dealership, the CEO of GMDAT and then the CEO of GM. This is the route I would take. I hope everything works out for you.
Ken
Please go to the Comparisons board and create any discussion you believe appropriate for that sort of thing.
Thanks.
I think the Lemon law states something about an attempt to repair the same problem 3 times with out success and a certain amount of time one has to do without the automobile. The Lemon law info may be obtained from your Suzuke dealer, or any automobile dealer. The Suzuki dealer here in Melbourne, FL is also the Chrysler dealer.
I purchased a 99 Chrysler Concorde from the dealer new in 99 and still go there for service,
which I might add is very good!! My Verona EX has a bad seat belt in the RR passenger position and they did not have one in stock, it was ordered and repaired in 3 days. At present I have less that 800 miles on the Veona and less than 38000 on the Concorde. I just sold a 94 Ranger XLT with 160,000 miles in October when I purchased the Verona, which I love so far.
I only compared the Verona to the TSX because you were touting its brilliant engineering (squeezing that much power out of a large 4) at the Verona's expense but failed to point out the $10,000 price difference (the same amount between a base V. and a base Accord EX V-6 2-dr). I helped you out, that's all. I think, however, that the "thinness" of the acceleration time difference is blown to a "hyper extreme."
My definition of "premium brands" is different, but you clarified yours. However, I am looking at opportunity cost. So the Accord has side airbags for $3,000 more. The Verona can have them with a change of the seat (which is already sold) for the same price (still $3000 savings over a stripper Accord) or a few hundred dollars more. I will join you and mail them (Suzuki, GMDAT, and even the seat supplier) a letter if you wish, to add side airbags to the Verona. I am not pleased with this omission either. Suzuki should listen.
The future of the Verona is certain. GM must buy the output from the Bupyeong factory for 6 years, with around 5 remaining. Either GM spends for the development of a new car, which will be the next Verona, or the current Verona will be sold here until the term ends. The Verona is a key part of Suzuki's grand expansion plan.
Alpha01, While I suspect that this has all come about by gee35's intricate conversation planning, I have no problem with anyone placing such importance on acceleration times (weight or fuel use). I do, however, have a problem when those opinions are blown out of proportion and used to persuade others. I think you would agree, theoretically, especially if I were to say that the Camry is ugly campared to the handsome Italian styling of the most beautiful Verona... certainly so on a Camry board.
Again, if you view of safety hangs on side airbags, then the Verona can easily be fixed by GM/Suzuki. Also, after a few visits to the popular SUV board, the more weight = safer. So, buy a Verona and crush the smaller midsizes with the Daewoo's glorious masses of nicely styled steel! Only they will need side airbags. IMO, from careful observation, side curtains are usually used in place of side body airbags (which cover the head anyway in Korean cars) and do not protect the body (where all of the other important organs are stored).
With the fast moving traffic in New Jersey, is it not common to simply cut someone off? And if they dare challenge the Verona, they will be crushed by its massive weight. Problem solved. Joking aside, I stand by "1 second is trivial." So the Camry is 1.2 seconds quicker. Please place that 1.2 seconds into context. Watch a clock with a seconds hand and see how quickly that time passes by. Watch the clock go to 9.5 seconds (or even 9.2, THAT difference isn't even discernable) and then to 10.7. One second. Nothing. Gone in a flash. How long does it take to earn $3000? All the same, I am certain that you have a computer with a 3.5 ghz processor, heaven forbid that even though a 2.8 ghz costs half as much, a second or so slower at the most extensive applications will not do.
Another observation of mine, in all of my few years of driving, I have seldom met instances where I needed full use of a 0-60 time. Yet that is me. Perhaps I don't pull out in front of other cars with the slimmest of margins and so on (I am not implying that you do), but that would be the case.
Each to his own. (but not each to everyone else)
You mentioned losing hubcaps...the issue is that Daewoo hubcaps are made of Nylon rather than ABS plastic. This means they are very tough and pretty much impossible to damage, but the catch is that the clips are flexible and tend to bend over on installation if you try to pound the cap onto the wheel like usual. What you need to do is use a large flat screwdriver to force the last clip into place when you install the cap so it doesn't just bend over. I suggest that those of you who own base Veronas with full hubcaps get in the habit of removing the caps yourself before bringing the car in for service, and then installing them yourself so you know it's done right. Just some friendly advice from your local hubcap dealer :-)
-Andrew L
I wish you good luck.
You claim that most cars with side curtains have them in place of side airbag- not really; it only seems this way on GM and Chrysler models. All Toyota and Hondas with side curtains, also have side torso bags, that covers most of the important organs.
There is a very big difference between driving a car that can easily keep up with traffic, or a car that stuggles to do so. 1.2 seconds is definitely a big enough difference to feel through the seat of the pants. But thank you for relenting in your argument that the Verona offers better passing power than its competitors. I'm guessing you now realize it doesnt.
And finally, you are welcome to call the Camry or Accord or whichever car... ugly. Styling is subjective.
To each his own yes. Just dont skew the facts.
~alpha
As for the second paragraph....Huh? Clarify please.
Airbags require much more than a "change of seat". There are computers and software and safety testing. Which probably would have driven the price much higher then $250 per car if they plan on selling only 20,000 of them. Another case of extremely narrow thinking.
The future is far from certain. This car was "given" to Suzuki. The next car will have to be engineered from the ground up. I'd be willing to bet the next car will have MUCH more GM in it than say...Ital Design.
Accelleration has not been blown any more out of perportion than smoothness or price. Or the "how long does it take to earn $3000".
As I see it, the GM/Suzuki intervention in the Magnus has resulted in much inferior models called the Verona and Epica for the NA markets. The floaty suspension has resulted in handling compromises with a skidpad of 0.75 compared to the original 0.81 for the Leganza, and the GM tranny has resulted in wiping out the benefit of the 2.5 I6. This is an amazing engine if it is mated to a proper transmission. So basically GM has taken a fine Daewoo car and ruined it. If you like the Verona, I suggest you go on ebay and buy yourself a slightly used Leganza for a couple of thousand dollars. The Leganza remains the only Daewoo built vehicle worth driving.
Its GMs fault that the Daewoo Verona weighs 3500lbs? Thats the real acceleration culprit, not GMs transmission.
The Verona is head and shoulders above the Leganza. Who cares about skidpad? Transient manuevers are a much better gauge of handling ability. Throw a set of better tires on the Verona, and you'll get back up to .80.
~alpha
CAMCORDS
0-60 9.5 sec
0-60 10.7 sec
Skidpad of 0.75
.08 for the Leganza
.78 on C&D Skidpad
Better tires get back to .88
2 seconds VS $3000 Dollars
I could compare one automobile with others all day and still find PRO's and CON's with most any given automobile. There are many automobiles manufactured to please the many different buyers. In most cases, why criticize something one has no interest in? ie.. don't own a Suzuki Verona but wants to put it down for minute items.
Safety items excluded, as I am sure it could have had more safety items, but then there are other cars that lack safety items also that are sold everyday.
Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
Still love that Verona........
Just my thoughts, not intended to upset anyone..
Ken
I think Accord v. Camry v. Verona is a pretty apples to apples comparison. I'm not sure how a niche vehicle like xB entered the argument. (It is just as underpowered as the Verona, for what its worth).
The Verona is a good entry in the market. It suffers compared to the rest of the segment in terms of safety features, fuel economy, acceleration, and resale.
~alpha
If one wants more power,accel there are other vehicles in the market that are better than accord or camry. Each car has a plus and minus. Good points of any car have to be appreciated.
The buyer makes the choice. Verona is a Good Car..no doubt about that.
Thanks, rasup.
In terms of depreciation, it is percentages that are of concern, and accordingly, the alleged greater dollar value lost on the more expensive car may not be the case. If after 4 years, a $24K Accord EX-L loses 54% of its value and a $20K Verona EX loses loses 67% (these are actual figures from Kiplingers), then the Accord owner loses $13440 to depreciation, and the Verona owner loses $13400. 40 dollars is hardly noteworthy.
The buyer does make the choice, and the Veronas recipe is a lot of features for not a lot of cash. I'd perfer a better engineered vehicle, personally.
~alpha
The base model Suzuki sells for $23,000 CAD, and the Chevy version Epica for $25,500, compared to the base model Altima $24,500. Not much difference. So these new woos are priced similar to Japanese, not Korean cars here in Canada. The only way GM/Suzuki will be able to sell it here is by offering huge discounts/incentives or zero interest rates.
What it comes down to is that the new woo costs $5000 CAD more than my Leganza did (Comparing fully loaded models). I guess GM Daewoo wants to make some profit from these cars at last, but will it work?
I said to g35:
“Interesting, I haven't seen you on the Scion boards complaining about a lack of power and lower gas mileage (Bx).”
“You haven't seen me on the Scion boards....Period. by gee35coupe”
“Gee35, my point exactly. The Scion Bx averages $16,000, has 108hp, only gets 28mpg for such a trade off in power, and is a small car. Maybe you should pay them a visit.”
If he is here complaining about such things with the Verona, why not the Scion? Is it not almost the same price? Is the fuel economy of the bX not lower than the norm for that class? Is it not underpowered? Using the logic that you have (spend $3000+ more on an Accord), why not do the same over a Scion, a Verona is far more for the money? Are you not there either, Alpha "I like numbers!" 01, reciting your statistics and 0-60 times from Car and Driver?
Perhaps it is impossible for either of you to ponder on a question. The answer to this mind-boggling enigma is: YES, you both should be there. If the insignificant difference between a Camry and a Verona under full-acceleration bothers you that much, I expect a barrage of posts on the bX board.
Speaking of that insignificance, you, alpha01, have yet to even begin to apply those acceleration statistics to the real world with any such examples or logic. You have failed to give any reason as to how 1.2 seconds is “definitely a big enough difference” to notice. Except for letting us know that without being coddled by 1 second in maximum acceleration times, you would fail as a driver, where 98% of everyone else has no trouble driving, and that the seat of your pants is the new de facto standard.
That other 98% is made up by: the Scion owners, Verona owners, myself (Daewoo Nubira), and many others who do not ,and have not had a problem with acceleration or passing. Look on either of the boards and you will see they are quite satisfied. (As I have pointed out, this whole tangent had not come up until G35 started posting). From your collection of Car and Drivers, flip to the performance data pages (yellow and white as you know) and find the Nubira. Exactly, and I have no problem what so ever. What are the performance numbers for whatever you drive? Not only that, but I drive 80%+ on two-lane roads and have to pass multiple cars with on-coming traffic frequently. Your "fast-paced" traffic is on multiple lanes where its easy. So, I am more qualified in passing, and I know from real-world experience that 1 second is insignificant.
Also, it is pointless to say that the Camry has better passing power, or the Verona, without driving both, and PASSING with them. I simply recognized this sooner than you. Along the same vein, you learned that the Verona’s increased weight pays off in safety. You like to think that your world of statistics is the same as reality, when it isn’t. Knowing statistics is next to nothing, knowing how to use and apply them is everything (a lot of people have this problem, see an IIHS offset crash test "best pick" zealot). How much heavier is the Verona to the Camry? A few hundred pounds? What is your proof and even the basis for your assumption that the weight is the "real acceleration culprit?" The characteristics and behaviors (plus gear ratios) of an automatic transmission make a huge difference in acceleration, economy, and so on. I have not compared the two Magnus versions (w/differing transmissions), and neither have you. All the same, that one second of difference is still negligible!
"And finally, you are welcome to call the Camry or Accord or whichever car... ugly. Styling is subjective."
As I said: “I have no problem with anyone placing such importance on acceleration times (weight or fuel use). I do, however, have a problem when those opinions are blown out of proportion and used to persuade others. I think you would agree, theoretically, especially if I were to say that the Camry is ugly campared to the handsome Italian styling of the most beautiful Verona... certainly so on a Camry board.”
You are clearly blowing this out of proportion, using it to persuade others, and not backing it up with anything other that a magazine statistic, which you do not know how to apply into the real world. I find it unfortunate that you do not realize that the exaggerated Camry example is about your actions.
“Don't you mean, theorhetically, the Verona can have side airbags with a change of seats? OH Right. That helps the consumer in the market today.”
Thanks for pointing out the obvious, alpha. What, you are holding me accountable for the Verona not having side airbags in it? Is there a wand of some sort that I have, a magical ability? Are you mistaking me for someone who does not want side airbags in the Verona? Why not do something about it and mail Suzuki and GMDAT a letter at the least?
G35coupe, it shows how little you know about the airbags. The only "narrow thinking" is yours. The Daewoo Magnus has the same computers, crash software, and wiring and the Suzuki Verona. The Magnus is sold with side airbags. They changed the seat and removed the fuse. Nothing more. Insert new seat, plug in fuse, recalibrate.
In the second paragraph of my last post, you fail to recognize your own words (indicated by the “” as they usually are) and previous comparison that you made, with the TSX’s engine output. I guess “Huh?” is a valid response now to make things go away. Please re-read. It's easy and helpful.
"The future is far from certain."
No, the future in the car market in the next few years, which the Verona will still be sold, as I have explained in detail. Future = certain.
"I'd be willing to bet the next car will have MUCH more GM in it"
Shall I mock you, or only point out how obvious that is? You are also thinking that this will incite anger in Daewoo owners
"Accelleration has not been blown any more out of perportion than smoothness or price. Or the 'how long does it take to earn $3000'."
Yes it has. You see g35, it takes a large portion of time to earn $3,000, whether it be an entire day, a month, or even a year. If alpha01 is bent out of shape over 1.2 seconds, the time it takes to earn $3,000 should send him over the edge...
Thanks.
bmcclain, if you followed your own advice (by sifting through previous posts), you'd find that I stated the the bX is indeed underpowered, and I dont think its acceleration is competitive with other vehicles in the same class. However, equipped with an automatic, the bX is on par with the Verona, offering similar acceleration with about 10 MPG more.
For the record, I used to drive a 2000 Camry 4 cylinder, capable of running to 60 in 10.5 seconds, similar to the Verona and bX, and in NJ, I found it adequate at best. The difference from that to the current Camry 4 cylinder is practically night and day. This is what I base the significane of 1- 1.5 seconds on. Given that the Verona accelerates similarly (actually a bit worse under Car and Driver's feet)to the old Camry 4, I make my comments that 1.5 seconds is enough to feel.
I dont think I'm blowing anything out of proportion. I'm not the one ranting on in excessively long posts. I recognize the Verona's good qualities- smooth, quiet ride, decent looks, excellent warranty, nicely trimmed interior (though steering wheel looks cheap), lots of features for the price. It seems that you bmcclain, cannot accept the areas where the Verona falters.
~alpha
I understand your frustrations. I (like you) recently purchased a Verona and came across this board to satisfy a hunger for information about the car, which is scarce. I'm also very happy with my purchase and it is frustrating to see the car get dissed by those who are judging it purely on paper. But you know what, they are very knowledgeable and I'm learning a lot.
People who come to this post looking for information to decide whether to purchase a Verona can judge for themselves and all the contributions are helpful.
Personally, I have no complaints about the powertrain. In the first week it did seem like the tranny was not always in the right gear and I was bit concerned. But it must adjust because lately (I have 1600 miles on it) I'm very happy with it. Perhaps a 5th gear would be good for highway trips, but for around town and commuting in traffic, I think I like the fact that it gets into fourth quick and doesn't need to go anywhere else.
A couple days ago my "check engine" light went on. Anyone else have that problem? The manual says it can be caused by bad fuel or having the cap not tight. Manual says it may go away with a fuel up. I noticed nothing wrong with performance. I plan to bring it back to the dealer in another day or two if the light doesn't go off. Otherwise, my wife complains about the climate control system. Usually we leave it off the auto mode.
Keep positive
I am considering a Verona. Acceleration and skid pad stats mean almost nothing to me. For those who do emphasize these things when contemplating the value of a vehicle, more power to you (no pun intended)...that's cool and it keeps life interesting.
One of the issues with the Verona that may have me hesitating is the mileage. Environmentally and economically, the less than great #'s are cause for concern. How are those of you already sitting in the Verona's driver seat finding the fuel consumption relative to the "reported" figures?
jkobty: several posts back you cited GM selling the top of the line Verona/Epica at 28K. accurate indeed for the epica but the GLX Verona (canada's top model) is $25 700. and knowing suzuki, you hit the nail on the head in mentioning the possibility of substantial inscentives. from where i am standing, the verona keeps pulling me back in from an overall value perspective based on my criteria.
Thanks for all the debate folks! Cheers.
17 mpg (just today I filled it up). I am told by the dealer salesperson that it may take up to 2000 - 2500 miles before it reaches it full potential of the 20 - 28 mpg. I have not had mine on a trip yet. Was going to this month, but that has been cancelled. Don't know now when I will take it on the road.
Have not had a check engine light. I do have a rattle somewhere in the window, passenger door or that area when I am on a rough or bumpy road.
I will get that checked soon.
I also have no problems with the shifting of the transmission, (sometime I have to watch for the dip in the RPM to see when it shifts) and read that it adjust to ones driving habit, and someone here said if the battery is disconnected it looses the memory and has to start over for a shift pattern which makes sense.
Not sure if this is redundant (if it is I apologize), but the $25 695 I mentioned previously as the price of the GLX Verona is in Canadian dollars (not U.S.)
And though we pay more for certain products here in Canada, when it comes to cars (cost against income in relative terms), we are fortunate enough to be among the most competitive in the world.
Thanks :>)
As far as gas mileage goes, I posted many pages back that I took a 600 round trip when the car had less than 1,000 miles on it. It was a disappointing 23 mpg on the way, but I was pleasantly surprised to attain 28.5 on the way back ...and keeping up with traffic I was cruising at 75 to 80 mph. Last tank around town was about 18 mpg.
I went through and compiled a list of words and phrases used to describe the Verona: "a good deal in arrears, terrible, slow and overweight, stuggles, suffers, falters." I find that these words are extreme and unnecesarily used in place of more moderate terms (especially when actual owners descriptions differ). I am veteran of the infamous Daewoo message boards, were several would drop in and use similar tactics to stir everything up (you can tell from my post #203). You recently described the acceleration as "adequate," which is far more like it. I am very pleased that we are offered your real world comparison. I never doubted that the difference existed, but it definately does not to the extent that the words above describe (which has blown it out of proportion).
I do concede that the word "terrible" was a bit too harsh, but the others in your list... I still feel apply.
It is up to the buyer to weigh these "cons" against the Verona's multiple positives [features per dollar, somewhat distinctive styling, room, composed (though not agile) handling, quiet, etc.]
~alpha
I've driven both models and you can check the specs at their respective websites.
The Epica LS is the Verona GL, right from the 15 inch wheels on up.
The top of the line Chevy (LT) is pretty much the same as the Verona (GLX). As you mention, the LT does have leather, the GLX does not. I can take or leave leather surfaces in a car, so the price difference is not worth it.
I've also read in some of the reviews that the Suzuki has a better suspension system (rear?) than the Epica, though I'm not an expert and don't know for certain.
I have no allegance to either Chevy or Suzuki but the Verona clearly seems a better value than the Epica (a point that comes up regularly in Canadian source reviews of the twins).
But then again the Bx is a comparison to the Verona. Huh?
It doesn't matter though. Suzuki only wants to sell 20,000 of them this year. I predict even that small target won't keep em from having incentives.
So it looks like even Chevy is going to have to reduce the price substantially for a knowledgeable customer.
The Suzuki Verona has a nicer front Grille and headlights, while the rear lights look old. The Chevy's Grille stinks(same body color as the rest of the car, instead of being a chrome grille), but the rear lights are much nicer.
To make things even more interesting, my Daewoo dealer who is now also a Suzuki dealer is offering to the customers who prefer the Daewoo badging to rebadge the Verona as a Daewoo Magnus!
and he has done so for 2 customers already. Is this legal?
I too notice a mild jarring rattle when the car passes a rough patch of road. It seems some sheet metal area or cladding achieves resonance in vibration. Have you check it yet?. Do let me know. As far as mileage the car is too new to comment and i have yet to test its mileage. There is no engine check light problem. There are minor occasions of cold start.The Cars ride seems to improve as the miles log on.
I love the new car. I had a maxima and Verona has not disapointed me so far...
Regarding the legalities, I wouldn't know, though I might be able to get an interesting perspective from an interesting source.
Good friend of the family is a corporate lawyer and one of her main clients is Suzuki Canada. She's pretty tight with Suzuki's senior executives and recently attended a political function with one of the VP's (that's actually what got me looking at the Verona). I'll be seeing her next week and I'll get her take on it.
eus777...I'm in the same boat; Verona or Accord...I'll be interested to see which way you decide to go. Good luck.
Some specifics: Mileage has been running between 20-23 mpg around town, which includes more freeway driving and not a lot of stop and go. My wife took it over the mountains for a 300 mile trip recently and got 27 mpg. A little less than the Passat but I attribute that to the auto tranny and slight increase in weight.
No rattles, squeaks or blinking lights so far. My wife does get a little frustrated how to use the automatic climate control but I told her she just needs to read the manual. I do frequently find myself touning off the radio becasue of the location of the controls on the steering wheel but I guess that is my problem.
I have been buying new cars for 40 years and have owned a variety of foreign and domestic brands. Unless the Verona suddenly turns into a lemon, I feel that this car would be highly satisfactory for 95% of the car driving public and an excellent value, all things considered.
MOTOR TREND 2004/2005 NEW CAR buyer's guide. There is a article on Accord vs. Camry vs. Altima. I am comparing all of these to each other and to the Verona. They all get the same or slightly better mpg than the Verona and all have considerably better 0-60 mph times. BUT.. none of them have all of the options that the Verona has for any where near the price. Also I consider the Verona better looking inside and out. The Nissan Altima is the only other one of these four remotely attractive to me as far as exterior goes. But with nearly every option (in the 4 cyl.SL) you still don't get ABS or a sunroof or side air bags without paying thousands more. (all one package) And the LX Honda and LE Camry do not have 4 wheel discs.(another extra package) I wish the Verona had a bit more pep and a bit better gas mileage and that we could predict the reliability. But even so, the more I compare looks, options and price,the more I think I'm going to end up with a Verona. A beautiful, shinny, black one. I've been quoted a price of $18,880.00. The money I save on the Verona EX will buy A LOT of extra gasoline. I may lease for 3 years, then if it developes a bad reputation I won't have to worry about struggling with resale.