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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+



  • zmanzman Posts: 200
    A little more intricate than the "tiptronic" from the VW Passat, which I've driven, though only briefly. It was an interesting experience, and the biggest problem I had to deal with was what to do with my left foot.

  • Okay gang. I'm feeling pretty cocky after the Panthers and the Tarheels won, so, in response to Q's from zman and others, here's my guesses on US release Legacy and Outback, based largely on posts here and watching the previous releases and SoA marketing trends:

    1) No turbo in Outback;
    2) No MT in H6 Outback, but a sweet 5EAT with Sportshift in the H6 and steering wheel shift buttons in the premium ( LL Bean) trims;
    3) Black trim at lowest edge of body in H6 Outback trims; cladding up on doors and fenders in 2.5NA trims, consistent with previous releases and SoA trend in Forester;
    4) all OB trims and 2.5 NA Legacy on dealers' lots by May 1, maybe a litttle earlier; Legacy GT July 1...still tweaking the options and the tuning;
    5) No H6 Legacy in 05, at least. There will be clear distinction between the offraod-capable Outback and the on-road performance of the Legacy, especially the turbo;
    6) I think Bigelm will win the pricing prognostication. SoA has a lot of marketing strategy riding on bringing all trim levels of the Legacy sedan to market under $30K MSRP, another grand for the wagon. Outback will range all the way up to $35K and will include convenience options never seen in a Subaru before.

    Write it down.

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    in keeping with current "international" Outback and "US-spec" Legacy labeling, I say the only Outback models will be:

    2.5 Outback i (cloth, 5-speed or 4EAT)
    2.5 Outback i Limited (leather, 5-speed or 4EAT, moonroof)
    3.0 Outback R (cloth, VTD, 5EAT)
    3.0 Outback LL Bean (leather, VDC/VTD, 5EAT, moonroof, navigation)

  • I'm a family man who is enthusiastic about Subaru's commitment to fun driving in the new Legacy. But I had hoped Subaru wouldn't forget to address the woeful rear seat space issue in the Legacy (so bad that Edmund's review said the old model's "limited shoulder room make[s] it uncomfortable for more than two people").

    But no, the new Legacy is actually NARROWER than the old (68.1 versus 68.6). What is going on here?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The Legacy's rear seats are comfy. Headroom is abundant, well above my 6' frame. This pic shows how well they scooped out the headliner: 9773488a83cf/fa03fd65.jpg

    It's not a lot bigger than my 2002 Legacy, but it is more comfortable and head room is definitely improved over the previous sedan.

    I doubt the H6 will get a MT. Outback will likely get a turbo, though, with both trannies. Baja already has that setup.

    GT vs. WRX? Well, price will keep them apart. A base GT picks up where the WRX leaves off, and goes all the way up to near-STi price levels.

  • kenokakenoka Posts: 218
    I believe the new Legacy is actually a bit larger. The discrepancy IIRC is in how the cars are measured.
  • zmanzman Posts: 200
    Will there be a turbo in the 2005 Outback 2.5 with a manual transmission?

    Nostradamus says no. ("1) No turbo in Outback;")

    Juice says yes.("Outback will likely get a turbo, though, with both trannies.")

    Stand by. I have a feeling that my decision to buy a Subaru likely depends on the outcome.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Baja got one, why wouldn't the far more important Outback? If you think about it, not one model with the 2.5T doesn't get a manual tranny.

    Legacy is not getting the H6, so the Outback will. Up to now, that has only come with an auto, so another auto is likely for that.

    Having a turbo/auto would give the outback auto 3 engines and the MT just one! Not likely.

  • otis123otis123 Posts: 430
    According to the 2005 glossy brochure I got from SOA last week, there will be no H6 in the Legacy lineup.

    Still waiting for the Outback brochure... :-)


    As Subaru attempts to go after European nameplates - they even refer to the Leagcy as more European - has the handling of the Outback become tighter/crisper = more European (like VW, BMW, Audi, etc.)? That is my biggest wish for the 2005, and my biggest want for my 2001 LLBean..


  • I think it will be asking a lot for Subaru to raise the clearance of the Outback and also give it handling like a 5 series BMW wagon. However, I suspect its lower weight will enable much better handling than an Audi allroad, A4/A6 Avant or BMW X5. On the other hand, reviews from experienced test drivers from Japan and NZ lead me to expect handling in the new Legacy to be far superior to the much heavier Audi's and BMW's, even the highly- touted 3 series. Subaru created a wagon with amazing handling in the WRX and there's no reason to expect less in the new Legacy. Like WRX enthusiasts, new Legacy owners may want to consider upgrading their tires to take best advantage of the car's capabilities.


  • otis123otis123 Posts: 430
    Yeah, 2 fellow employees had to get different rims and tires for their new wrx's a couple weeks ago when snow came... they had opted for the performance potenzas and found themselves slip sliding away (they had both been warned by their SOA salesmen)...

  • SubaH6 - Thanks for the review. I recall reading another you've done and that is what I was basing my description off of. Obviously my memory isn't as good as your experience. Also, thanks for clarifying the price diferences.

    Juice - I'm going with Nostradamus on this one (as much as I respect your Suby knowledge). I'll wager there will NOT be a turbo in the Outback line up. SoA put the turbo in the Baja because it's supposed to be targeted at a younger demographic than the Outback. That and it doesn't get the H6 which we're sure the Outback will get. ;-)

  • yugoboyyugoboy Posts: 161
    i am very encouraged that everyone seem's to believe that the current prices will hold true even for the new 2005 gt, time will tell, but i still worry that it might be quite expensive, however, if i can get into this car for 40k(canadian funds) it will be a steal of a deal. Thanx for all the posts guys....!!!!!
  • subah6subah6 Posts: 34

    I may have made the same mistake myself when I was first looking at updating my previous Outback. When the new Outback became available here in Oz, I went to my local dealer and they didn't have one for at least a week, so he suggested I test drive the Liberty (Legacy) GT (this is an impressive piece of car let me tell you). This has the steering mounted auto controls which I thought was to be found on the new Outback H6, but alas, no. Maybe I had posted something after that first test drive of the GT regarding that but I don't remember.

    Anyway sorry if I did cause confusion.
  • sebberrysebberry Posts: 148
    What will become of it when the '05 are here?

    Will they continue it with the new body or the existing one?

    Subah6: Did the Outback down under get a lift? If so, how does the cornering compare?

    If I do decide to upgrade it will be really hard to choose between the Outback 3.0 and the Legacy GT... The offering of the NAV system and McIntosh sound system will definately help me decide tho... oh well.. we shall see
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think the US model will be higher up, 8.7" of clearance plus a unique bumper. And factory tint.

    We'll know Feb. 6, from Chicago.

  • subah6subah6 Posts: 34

    The ride height of the new spec Outback is the same as the old for us here in Oz. This is 8" ride height.
  • There was a rumor that Subaru was going to offer the new Legacy with STi tuning. Does any one know if this is true? If so, will it be available as a wagon? If so, how much? If so, when? If so, what can we expect?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Just rumors for now, but some say we may a special Legacy in the fall with 280hp.

  • snowbirdsnowbird Posts: 120
    According to Mr. Healey, " the turbo four vibrates remarkably at idle, cackles and grumbles at low speed ... and stutters and jerks during moderate acceleration." Also, "The ride is bouncy..." Does this sound like a good review to you?! BTW, I said I was "a little spooked" by his review, but I am not deterred. I am going ahead with my purchase anyway.
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Posts: 709
    Is the 2005 Legacy GT motor essentially the one that appears in the 2004 Forester XT or are there differences?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    GT is rated at 250 HP.

  • trueawdtrueawd Posts: 64
    Here's what the line-up will be in the Outbacks. And yes again I got this info from a reliable dealer who has been right with me on new product 95% of the time. If you look back at my postings from the Legacy launch, they were correct.

    Base Outback - 4 Cyl, 4sp AT or 5sp man, cold weather package, etc... (similar to now except for the new and improved features in 05' model)
    Outback Limited - 4 Cyl, 4sp AT or 5sp man, added Sunroof and leather etc...also like now except new stuff in dual climate control etc..just like all the new 05 Legacy stuff.
    Outback LL bean - 6cyl 250hp/219lbs tqe, new 5sp AT, audio controls on steering wheel, leather, roof, electro lum dash, power pass seat, etc...again all the things like in 05 Leg top of the line models.
    OUTBACK XT (YES I SAID XT TURBO - juice is right) - 250/250 (like Leg GT) Loaded like Bean or Legacy GT Lim models. Will be avail in 5sp AT or Manual.
    Ouback Sedan 6 cyl - NON VDC but loaded vehicle.
    Outback VDC wagon - Loaded, add VDC and this year and sweet stereo and I think instead of Mcintosh there is suppoed to be an MP3 player.
    * The only thing they were not sure of is if there will be a 4cyl Outback sedan or a base 6 Cyl wagon (cloth) like there is now). They said they would call me as soon as they knew.

    I guess we'll all see in Chi-Town on the 5th of Feb..pretty soon!!
  • zmanzman Posts: 200
    "OUTBACK XT (YES I SAID XT TURBO - juice is right) - 250/250 (like Leg GT) Loaded like Bean or Legacy GT Lim models. Will be avail in 5sp AT or Manual"

    Yeah baby!

    Sign me up.

  • nowakj66nowakj66 Posts: 709
    So what are the arguments for and against these 4 verhicles? All would be similar in capability and potentially appeal to the same buyer (they all appeal to me! :-) )

    I know the WRX has the 2 liter while the others would be 2.5. Other than that, is there enough to differentiate them?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Some guy from nabisco last summer went to a Subie focus group in which there were pics and brief specs of a turbo Outback GT (I have them on my computer someplace, as I downloaded that info). However, it was called a GT, not XT. Maybe the name has changed in the elapsed time?

  • trueawdtrueawd Posts: 64
    I say yes because all 4 have different attributes:

    WRX Wagon - smaller and your right a 2.0. Less tourqe and less space. Not as many lux items.

    Legacy GT - a sports wagon with luxury (all about performance)

    Forester XT - small SUV with utility (ground clearance, etc..)and performance

    Outback XT - bigger then Forester and more lux items. Power seats, dual climate control, side curtain airbags (in addition to side), etc.. Alternative to SUV but still with ground clearnce 8.5 inches or so and all the features. Also reason for turbo over 6 or at least the consumer haveing a choice is have a chance to have a model to go up against Audi All Road, Volvo wagons, BMW, etc...
    * The name must have changed since the focus groups. Probably to diff the 2 more (Leg and OB)??
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    If your figures are correct, the 2.5 turbo will have a huge edge in torque, and may well be the better tow vehicle because of that. That's assuming the turbo will have a good flat powerband, and excellent low-rpm torque, with little or no turbo lag.

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    that they're not offering the VDC on more models. According to your report, it's still being limited to just one trim level.

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