Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

ateixeira

IMHO your best bet is to search here:

http://cars101.com/

jeffmc

Here's the '06 Legacy page for the site juice listed above. It lists the changes over the '05 models.
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2006.html#overview
One biggie not listed: Subaru changed the internal structure of the doors (not sure how, maybe more crossmembers?) to ace the side impact crash tests. The '05 did well on all other tests, but didn't get the best available rating on the side impact, so Subaru refined it and paid to have it re-tested. All '06-and-up Legacies get the top rating on front, rear and side impacts. It's not like the '05 performed poorly, but it's nice Subaru wanted to improve upon it.

michaelnc

It's going to be a while before I actually need it but I was wondering if anyone knows the Torx bit size for this drain. I have an '07 Leg.-SE. I will need to purchase the bit since all of mine are too small.

Thanks in advance!

Mike
Hickory, NC

kronogoose

Juice,

That was exactly what I was looking for! Thanks. (And thanks Jeff)

Funny thing, I remember going to that website several years ago when I was shopping for my SVX.

And one more question for those in the know: how is the auto transmission on the GT? Specifically, does the transmission (full auto or manual shift) allow you to take advantage of the turbo?

I'm attracted to the LGT because it's offered with a manual, but most of the used models for sale around here have the auto. (Some listed on autotrader with a manual actually turned out to have an auto.) Would I be crazy to give up on the GT and just go for a WRX?

Thanks again,

Greg

rob_m

I have an 05 LGT sedan with the Auto.

There are 3 modes - Auto, Sport and Manual. Auto acts like a regular Automatic. Sport acts like an automatic, but changes the shift points, where it shifts a bit harder, holds the gears longer and occasionally will downshift when you brake. Manual lets you run through the gears with either the shift, or using the steering wheel mounted buttons.

Sport mode is a hoot to drive. It snaps through the gears and does take advantage of the turbo. Red-line comes on very quick.

After 2 years and 40k, I primarily drive in Auto mode. Sport mode is fun, but I go way too fast, and it dings my mpg. Manual mode is a PITA, where you have to remember to shift. I occasionally downshift, and forget to upshift until the engine starts to wind out. Rob M.

xwesx

Bit size is a T70. Since it is somewhat of a "specialty" part, planning ahead to acquire one is a good plan! I just recently drained the transmission fluid on my '07 Outback's MT, and I used a T60 to pull it. The T60 was a little small, but worked fine for this 30ft# application (it was the largest I could find locally).

jeffmc

"I guess we'll see what the pricing looks like. I like the idea of the 3.0R but I have a bad feeling it will be priced out there. If it's more than 4k more than the LGT then I'll just get the LGT."

Mike, did you see the '08 pricing? No invoices yet, but here are MSRPs. They did a great job keeping the price down on the 3.0R Limited vs. the Spec B, even though the 3.0R is supposed to be the flagship. BTW, Spec B does include Nav, though not shown on the chart. 3.0R Limited is $3k more than "base" GT Ltd, and actually $500 cheaper than equally-equipped GT w/NAV & VDC.

Maybe they're trying to keep the price up on the Spec B so that the rumored "surpise" top-level trim debuting at SEMA in October will seem like a reasonable increase.

lilengineerboy

So now you have to get a high rider with big tires and fake off road suspension to get a wagon?
And you can only get sticks in base models?

Yikes, how much influence has Toyota had already?

michaelnc

Thanks for your response! I knew someone would know. Since it is so easy to change, I'll probably change the front diff. fluid every 20k, along with the transmission fluid. (LOVE that spin-on filter for the AT!)

Regards,

Mike
Hickory, NC

xwesx

It was good timing on your part, Mike. I just changed my gear oil for the first time on 3/15.

There was a fair bit of discussion on/around the Torx bit and associated gear oil change, you can review here if you would like. It was mentioned that the T70 felt too large for one person's application and a smaller size was used, but again, for my '07 Outback, the T60 was definitely sloppy, but still large enough to do the job. (whew!)

Had a '96 with AT before this one. It did not have the spin-on filter on the AT, but never took the unit apart to change the internal filter. Just did "regular" fluid changes. No problems with it through 221,000 when the car was ruined. The towing company ended up selling the whole thing to a private party for parts, so would not be surprised if the drivetrain moves another Subaru a few more miles down the road.

paisan

Very interesting. I thought the 3.0R would come in higher than the Spec B for sure.

We'll see how the Armada tows the 33 foot Cigarette Boat this summer and go from there.

-mike

xwesx

Whew! Sounds like a heck of a load on a "bumper mount" hitch. Probably behaves better with an SUV than a pickup though, due to the weight distribution on the tow vehicle. With my pickup, it is times like those that I say, "you know, a 5th wheel attachment would look very nice mounted in the bed...." :P

paisan

No bumper mount on the Armada, it's a frame mount and has the auto-leveling system. 9100lb capacity towing and the boat will be right at 9100 with the equipment and as light of a fuel load as I can get in her.

-mike

xwesx

The auto-leveling system probably makes a big difference. It is rare to see a true bumper mount any more - I was pawing for the right term (duh... frame!) and so put the words bumper mount in quotes. Still, mounting from end of the vehicle creates quite a bit more "wagging and sagging" than mounting over the rear axle (5th wheel) and therefore is not as stable. So, if the auto-level eliminates the "sag", then things are already better!

I expect that for you, it will be more a matter of whether the Armada has the "umph" you want/need when pulling a load that is at the top of its rated capacity!

xwesx

You have to post a photo of that boat sometime. It has to be just a monster! :surprise:

paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/33ol

xwesx

:surprise:

At first glance, the boat looks small (like ski boat size)... and then you notice the people inside......

ateixeira

Just some observations...

* The SE package continues to be the deal of the century
* too much price gap between the SE and the 2.5i LTD
* bring back the base Leg. GT
* VDC is a $300 stand-along option
* NAV still costs $2000 on Leg
* LL Bean package is a better deal than NAV on Leg

kmclean

For anyone considering a built-in nav system, I have an alternate you might want to consider. My wife bought me a Garmin nuvi 360 for Christmas (I think they run in the upper $600s, but shop around) - as much for her as for me, I suspect. I had pointed out to her how on-board nav systems were dinosaurs that would soon go the way of the early "car phones," and that most drivers would be better off with a portable device. After playing with the nuvi for a couple of months now - and moving it from car to car (or using it in pedestrian mode for that matter), I'm convinced that this is the way to go - especially if you have multiple vehicles, or if you keep them for a long time, as we do. You can even save the navigation surcharge from the rental car companies if you take it with you when you travel. The nuvi can be configured directly from your PC via a USB port, or you could pre-load however many SD cards you need and use them to supplement internal memory.

My sister took a pass on a nav system for her new MDX after she had a nuvi demo from my wife last month. Check it out (or the various competitors) - you could save a bunch of bucks and use the dash space for something else (like storing all the money you saved!).

Ken in Seattle

ateixeira

I have a Garmin too, and that's what I recommend as well.

Subaru just recently updated the maps, finally, while Garmin offers the updates much more regularly, and they cost less.

The screens are smaller, but they're getting bigger (one of the Nuvi models is 4.3"). The MIO 310x is just $199 at Circuit City, and supposedly Garmin will drop the C series to come out with a low-cost competitor to that MIO.

Gotta love the aftermarket. OE manufacturers won't be able to charge $2000 for these much longer. Prices have to come down - a lot.

cptplt

I have 2 magellans in the family, with 5 vehicles its a no brainer to go with a portable system especially one you can take out of the car.I'll probably get another one once my daughter really starts driving a lot on her own.

cptplt

why is the 08 2.5 Ltd OB with VDC cost over a grand more than a 2.5 Bean VDC/Nav ???? what could they have added to the Ltd or stripped from the Bean??

jeffmc

I believe the base Bean doesn't have leather. Not sure what else. They really went bonkers with all the LL Beans for '08 - it's a mess to keep all those straight, and I'm sure it'll be a nightmare for salespeople. Weakens the cachet, too.

bat1161

I know when we got our 06 Bean it was more "special" feeling since it was limited to only the H6. Now it seems Subaru has a Bean model for just about every level.

Mark

ateixeira

I get a copy of Consumers Guide and use it to help me decipher the models and content.

If you think Subaru is bad, take one look at Toyota. :sick:

robr2

Ah Toyota's easy:

SE - special edition

XLE - extra luxury edition

LE - luxury edition

CE - cheap edition.

michaelnc

FYI,
I found a T70 bit on ebay for $10.99 and free shipping. The product description said that it was for Forester/Legacy torque converter and GM 4500 brakes. I was happy to see that the seller recognized which vehicles the part might be used on. I did not find this size bit on any of the major tool manufacturers web sites, so it seems to be hard tool to source.

Mike F.

xwesx

Good to know! Sounds like a good buy overall.

In my searching, I found it only in three places: Amazon.com had a cheapie one through one of their "marketplace" vendors, Northern Tools had a Torx set for $29.99, and Snap-On tools had a T70 for something like $36.00!!! That was it. But, what I was really trying to do was find one locally (for a same-day purchase and use).

You are correct that it is a hard tool to source! :sick:

xwesx

Oh, Mike, let us know if it works properly. I think Craig mentioned that the T70 was slightly too big for his application and he ended up using a T60 for the job.

-Wes-

robr2

Do a google search on Torx T70 and you'll find plenty of sellers - some less than that price.

locke2c

my stepdad sold those in the early- to mid-90s. a decked out Baja 320 with twin 502s would run you $70k, easily.

~Colin

paisan

Yeah these days they go for more than double that. I think a new 35' Outlaw goes for around 200k with twin 496HOs and those are the "min" engine for em. A lot of them have 600SCs and 725SCs.

The 33 Outlaw will be fun Looking forward to it.

-mike

michaelnc

Will do! It may be a while before I am back under the car to check.

Thanks for all you responses.

Mike

michaelnc

From reading the posts, I was wondering if there is an engineering or design reason for the H6 engine to have an oil change interval of only 3K miles?

I am not trying to start a discussion about what type oil to use (conventional vs. synthetic), brand, weight or how often. I think each owner should use whatever type and brand he/she likes and change it (not to exceed manufacturer's recommendations.)

Driving about 22k-24k per year, I wouldn't get anything done but change the oil, if I owned an H6.

Please respond if you have any insight.

Mike
Hickory, NC

cusafr

Michaelnc: Is this true? Does the owners manual show 3K miles? If so, this is a very good question. In fact it may sway me away from the H6. What does the H4 engine require?

cusafr

paisan

Almost all Subarus (and all cars for that matter) call for a 3k oil change interval.

-mike

krzyss

My 2005 Subaru Legacy GT calls for 7500 OCI for normal and 3750 for severe duty.
I think I recall that H6 required first oil change at 5K but my memory might not be that good.

Krzys

PS I think most dealers and quick oil change places would love to have you back at 3K or sooner but manufacturers are not falling for this and are increasing OCIs lately.

paisan

Yeah I drive my cars hard so I always strive for the 3k-4k intervals. Although lately on my cars I've run em out to as much as 10k with Amsoil in there.

-mike

ateixeira

Ah Toyota's easy:

SE - special edition

XLE - extra luxury edition

LE - luxury edition

CE - cheap edition.

Actually, they're all cheap editions. Did you know stability control isn't standard even on the XLE!? :mad:

zman3

Actually, they're all cheap editions. Did you know stability control isn't standard even on the XLE!?

Given what Subaru has not done with stability control across their product line I find this comment to be rather ironic.

A cursory glance at several Camry models here on Edmunds leads me to believe that it is at least an option on most/all trim levels. That's more than can be said for Subaru.

ateixeira

I complain about Subaru not doing that all the time. Just about every day, actually. :sick:

Plus, the top models have had VDC. And the Tribeca makes is standard.

c_hunter

Not sure where you got that wrong info. All Subarus have a 7500 mile nominal oil change interval for normal service. The H6 models and some of the non-turbo H4 models also call for a first oil change at 3000 miles (with the next at 7500, 15000, 22500, etc).

The severe service schedule halves the interval to 3750 miles, but few of us really need to follow that.

Be sure to go by the maintenance schedule in the owner's manual and not the dealer/quickie-lube schedule. They always recommend too-frequent oil changes to make a buck. That is where the 3000 mile oil change myth originated from.

paisan

I was happy to see that VDC was standard across the board on all the Nissan Armadas when I was shopping for it. I did go with the top of the line LE but it would have been nice to have even on the basic model.

-mike

zman3

paisan - HOST??

Is that HOST part new, or am I just incredibly unobservant?

paisan

It's new! Motorsports and Tuning.

-mike

caliberchic

Congrats Mike! Guess the secrets out!

cusafr

This is more like it! Of course all the oil companies, quick change artist, and dealers want you to change your oil every other day, but the manufacture's recommendation in the owner's manual is the standard.

I think the new hondas are now 10,000 miles. I can understand taking care of your car and changing oil a little more frequently to ease your mind, but 3,000 miles is not necessary.

No disrespect Paisan, but if I remember correctly, the main selling point of synthetic oil was the fact that you did not have to change oil as often.

This reminds me of the advertising campainge years ago for a shampoo company. On the bottle they added words something like (wash, rinse, then shampoo and rinse again). Sales increased dramaticaly.

All this is my opinion. Please change your oil when you think it is needed.

cusafr

paisan

Oh I don't disagree that the oil life will last upwards of 10-15k miles if it's synthetic. HOWEVER....

Your oil filters stop filtering after about 3-6k miles at a maximum. So you are just running dirt through your engine! If you are going to take the time to change the filter, might as well change the oil while you are in there.

I always shoot for 3k changes but usually do them at 5k. I have to admit that I'm quite hard on all my vehicles therefore even with synthetic, they should be done every 3k miles. Anyone who drives enthusiastically and/or city driving should also shorten their intervals.

-mike

krzyss

So Mike the Host claims that filters use their by pass valves after 3-6K miles.

It would mean that engineers from BMW, Honda, Ford, Subaru are all wrong suggesting oil changes and filter replacements at 7500 (Subaru), 10000 (Ford, Honda) and up to 15000 (BMW as indicated by on board diagnostics/sensors ask Shipo).

Somehow I find it hard to believe.

Krzys

paisan

I didn't realize this was the BMW forum all of a sudden?

The ones with the sensors actually shoot light through your oil to sense if it's dirty, and then tell you to get an oil change. So the BMWs getting BMW filters probably can go to whatever the extended interval is.

However if you go to the Jiffy Lube or put in a store-bought filter, they are good for 3k-5k miles. Hence the 3k filter change suggestion. I'm not saying you can't go out and buy higher grade filters for your car, however folks who are balking and whining like little girls over 3k oil changes are also likely the ones who are buying the cheapest crappiest oil filters out there....

You get what you pay for.

-mike