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But then, Hondas have some Ford parts in them, Chryslers have parts from the world round. Soon Ford and GM will be jointly building automatic transmissions. Some BMW's have GM transmissions in them...
Parts sharing is everywhere. Design and quality standards for the new Subarus, though, are 100 percent Subaru.
The quality goes in before the name goes on. (Or was that Zenith? I forget!)
Also, anyone take delivery of a 2.5i Sedan or Wagon yet?
~alpha
OTOH, Imprezas are imported from Japan, as is the Forester, if it really matters to you!
Craig
Correct me if Im wrong, but I thought Delphi was no longer a part of GM.
Im very intrigued by this whole thing. If Honda's IPs come from Ford, why do the ones Ford uses pale so badly in comparison? The Accords IP is outstanding.
That said, I am a HUGE fan of not only the electrolumiescent cluster in the Turbos, but also of the gauges in the stock Legacy as well.
Question: Does anyone know why SoA/FHI chose not to use Variable Valve Timing on the non-turbo engines. Kinda disappointing.
~alpha
And just as Visteon is still closely related to Ford, Delphi is still closely related to GM. Each has as its primary customer its old parent!
Congrats to all the new owners! Join the Subaru Crew threads under the Owners Clubs topics, you'll be right at home.
RE: the tranny hesitation comments, keep in mind Bob and I drove broken-in models that had been driven hard on the track, perhaps that's proof that the adaptive trannies really work.
I would not be surprised if under normal conditions they try to get the best fuel economy possible (23/30 per EPA) and that might explain it.
-juice
Most air intakes are designed to prevent water ingestion from rain.
Here's a good link on how turbos work:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm
Oh, and water hitting the intercooler will help it's performance. In fact, some vehicles (like the STi) employ water misters on the intercooler to improve performance in short bursts.
Ken
Thanks for the info. BTW I know how Subaru's work in snow I've driven them in Buffalo, NY and the Northeastern US during the winter months many years. I'm glad to hear all of your comments both positive and negative, keep 'em coming, that's what makes this forum so great.
grove4 I too own a 04 F(orester) XT Auto. Fantastic car. I can only imagine what the GT Limited does (MT or AT). If I remember correctly the A/C has an auto cutoff when you really start to hit the higher RPM's. Don't know if this is in MT as well as AT FXT of not. All I can say is we have 30,000 miles on our since last June and it has performed flawlessly.
Again grove4 - Thanks for all your reports.
It appears the dealers nearest the factory in Indiana are getting the GT Limiteds before the South and other further away states. Hope my dealer sees their's soon.
Best Regards,
Chas
The STi has misting nozzles so that the water evaporates and gives a cooling effect. I don't think rain drops will do quite the same thing!
Craig
Thanks!
In the Bay Area, 3.0Rs havent been at the 2 dealers Ive checked. They say any day now....
The comments about low end power have been scaring me. As a relatively laid-back driver, acceleration to get on a freeway was fine with 01 H6 3.0. My problem was going from 65 to 70 to pass another vehicle quickly.
How does 05 3.0R OB compare to old H6 3.0 with regards to acceleration in these 2 ranges. Id hate to give up good acceleration from 0 to 60 for passing power?
How does one negotiate a deal for a car that is not on the lot yet? Sounds like people are paying from 2% over invoice to 1000 over invoice.
thanks!
Keep in mind we drove models that had a few hard miles on them, but the trannies impressed me big time. Closer ratios help too.
It's so quiet that it might not "feel" quite that fast.
-juice
Best advice is drive one yourself, and see for yourself.
Bob
As an example, go drive a Mitsubishi Outlander. That thing was so loud, the engine would scream even though the results were paltry acceleration. A bystander might think it was fast, given it was making so much noise...
*chuckle*
-juice
First thing I noticed. Much quieter. I really like the 5 speed. The gearing seems shorter and more positive and the clutch has a positive engagement that the previous model just didn't have. Power was perfectly adequate in both cars. The interior was impressive. The comparison to a Passat interior is on target. Cloth seats were very comfortable and the new 3 spoke steering wheel is very nice.
So what am I going to get. After driving both cars, there is no question in my mind... I'm going to get the 2.5i wagon. I'll add an aftermarket sunroof, a differential protector and hood protector and I'll be set. The Outback handling just isn't there for me. With the raised suspension and taller tires it doesn't meet my handling needs. It feels floater on the freeway. It just doesn't have the buttoned down feel that the 2.5i does. The 2.5i comes with almost everything I want now. It definitely is not a base model anymore. I really like the atlantic blue color.
I know I'd like the GT even more, but I'm cheap and I don't want to pay for premium fuel and the speeding tickets I would get. The 2.5i meets my needs and I'll save a few bucks over the Outback. Now I'll settle in and wait for a year or so for version 1 bugs to be ironed out and for rebates to kick in.
Fitz had them for $200 over invoice, extremely reasonable. Check out the local no-haggle dealers if you have them. Van Bortel is one in NY/NJ I think.
-juice
Also, is 05 Jetta worth a wait? Still can't find enough information about it. I want to compare this with Legacy as well.
9-2x is a WRX wagon with a moonroof and all-weather package. Unless you really want those two you'll find a far better value at your Subaru dealer.
05 Jetta would only be worth the wait if they put the Golf R32 drivetrain in it and chopped the price substantially.
-juice
Bob
On the Passat, 4Motion is actually Audi's Quattro system, basically a Torsen center diff with tracion control on both axles.
Funny thing is the Audi TT uses VW's 4Motion, but they call it Quattro because it's an Audi!
Confused?
Subaru has 3 systems of their own, but at least all 3 have something in common - they are 100% full-time in terms of sending at least some power to both axles.
-juice
Can't wait to find a chance to test-drive for myself.
In the front my head was brushing the headliner in the limited due to the sunroof, enough that it would drive me nuts. So, if I want leather, I will have to buy a base and add aftermarket leather. The dealer said they could do this themselves, and would not even have to subcontract out for it-crazy. Seems they learned this new trade with the stick/leather dilemna in the FXT.
I liked the new driver-oriented cockpit in the Outback, though I prefer my WRX's seats.
Will the OBXT and GT have more sport-oriented seats?
Overall, I like the improvements, though I wish we could configure options (e.g., Leather w/o sunroof) and it had a tad longer wheelbase and rear seat room. Still a Subaru-good thing.
I'm in the dilemna of going with either the X3, and trading interior room for the better performance of the Subaru. The X3's longer warranty and, maybe, better residual may place the lease price in the same realm as the OBXT. I'm still about 5 months from purchase, so I'll wait and see what way the wind blows. If I was single, it would be a GT-wagon hands down.
Also, are you saying the X3 is more spacious than an OB?
Its quite interesting how people prefer options. I myself would really like an options pkg or individual options that allowed for moonroof WITHOUT leather, which I find an annoyance in most weather conditions, and especially in dark colors.
~alpha
Craig
CUSAFR
The RX's biggest problem? The Highlander, it's both bigger and cheaper. But even that doesn't feel remotely sporting. It's just not my cup of tea. If I were filthy rich I'd buy one for my Aunt Helena.
Yes, the GT has better seats, more bolstering, still not as much as the WRX, but you notice it.
-juice
Also, it's a little obscure, but has anyone noticed if the new models are any better at warming/cooling the back seats? Vents under the front seats to keep rear passengers toes warm are really nice...
Thanks
http://www.pbase.com/image/28484123
I was thinking about just carrying the key and disabling the alarm, but that's impractical as there's only one keyhole on the whole car (driver's door.) Maybe I'll just carry the remote and keep the key under the seat to start the car.
NOT a good idea.
Didn't sit in the back long enough on our Ride-n-Drive to comment on the climate control, plus it was the desert so we used A/C the whole time.
Actually, that brings up a funny point, they asked us to use recirc because it's so dusty in Vegas. They also said we could try the moonroof out, but to leave it closed during our drive to keep the cars clean.
And they were right, every time the wind blew you'd see a clowd of dust.
-juice
I'm glad Subaru did not make up a dorky name for AWD.
Eric
Also I noticed that the sticker for the Outback classifies it as a "truck" but IIRC vehicles like the Pilot are designated "special purpose". I just wonder what the difference is.
In general, how "peppy" is the base 2.5 motor with a manual tranny? I don't need it to lay down 20ft strips of burnt rubber, just be able to go up a highway on ramp with some people and light cargo aboard. What is the fuel economy really like with the AWD? How is the cloth seating in the base model (is it durable, comfortable)?
Also, I realize this is a long shot question, but I've emailed Subaru and haven't heard back yet - Does anyone know if there is going to be a Subaru dealer in Oklahoma City or Edmond, Oklahoma area again? There was a dealer right by me that dropped Subaru just this year from the line of cars it carries. Now the nearest dealer is in Norman, OK (about 30 miles away through the main traffic artery, which I'm just not gonna do for servicing). Currently they are not effectively servicing the Metro Oklahoma City/Edmond area, which is decent sized area. Especially since Subaru is pushing upmarket, the northwest side of OKC and the Edmond area are (on the average) the higher income areas. (Not trying to sound snobby at all, just that they're not in a large market area that everyone else has a dealer in.)
kev: we were only able to drive a base model with the automatic. It felt as quick as my wife's 2002 5MT model, so I think a new one with a manual might even feel kinda peppy, but try it first.
Seats are much, much better than the ones in our 2002. That's one of my biggest complaints about our Legacy, actually.
-juice
Craig
Any thoughts on that?