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Comments
Cheers,
HeavyB
Bob
Why does the same 2.5 engine get 50hp more in
the WRX STi?
Would 50 more HP hurt the driving dynamics of the
new Legacy? I don't think so.
Cheers,
HeavyB
Bob
Bob
DaveM
I think you'll have to wait and find out if the Subaru unit will be able to be added later. I would guess it would be possible as there's already a spot for it in the center dash and a single din holder for the DVD player in the glove box.
-Ian
But you have the same canvas to start building on...
Wow, you know we're in a HP War when 250 isn't seen as enough by some folks. Keep in mind the Forester dynos at about 240-250, claimed is just 210. This could dyno at 280 or so, at least it feels that way.
The Altima's 245hp feels like less, the Mazda6's 219hp feels like a *lot* less, no comparison.
More power? I'm a firm believer in balance. The tires would have to go long before you could add more power, seriously. The RE92s were blowing chunks at the track, so they had to back off, at about 125mph! There was power to spare.
On the infield track, torque felt great, I wouldn't dream of asking for more. Really I'd want more LAP TIME, nothing else!
Then consider at high altitudes non-turbos will be wheezing...the Forester XT already outruns the 300C Hemi and the Pontiac GTO in the 1/4 mile. Poor little V8s are just held back by all that extra weight.
But sure, someone will always ask for more, and if the WRX STi moves to 330hp as we suspect, the GT could move to 280 "officially".
I say it's already there.
-juice
http://www.santacruzsubaru.com/images/2004/04_L-25GT_Sedan.jpg
Craig
http://www.subiegal.com/images/events/05subaru_legacygt/05subarul- - - egacy.htm
Bob
1. Did they replace that cheap PROP ROD under the hood? That was a shame on a 30K vehicle.
2. Did they add a ONE TOUCH DOWN for the windows? They do have that in the Passat.
3. Did they add a HOME LINK RECEIVER button? Having to use a remote with battery/contact difficulties is frustrating.
Hopefully Subaru really does listen to the customers. I do not expect all three requests will be met, but one or two would be nice.
"too nice", LOL, yes Ed, in a way it is. But the A-pillar is fabric covered and the B- and C- aren't, so the kids shouldn't do too much damage. Get the cargo liner for sure.
They had a cool off road track for the Outback, but as Bob mentioned it would only be ready the next day, for the dealer staff. Bummer. Bob got some pics and when I get the CD from him I'll upload them. Did Jamie post pics of that course?
H6 more comfy? Seats are wider and may pinch some folks less. Engine is quieter, but the turbo isn't exactly loud. The H6 is silent, though, you'll have to check the tach to know it's on, and to notice shifts.
Patti: I did not notice the tape. But I did notice the results of the NVH control effort. Our 2002 is not nearly as quiet.
Did we drive the 2.5i MT5? No, only an automatic with the base engine. But it was reasonably peppy, I'd estimate 8.5 seconds to 60, not too shabby. Hopefully the MT5 would come it at around 8 seconds.
Anyone driven one yet? They are in dealers...
Off to chat!
-juice
Where are they? Patti any help?
Thanks,
Chassol
Mark
Bob
6" is still pretty good, IIRC the Audi A4 is more like 4".
-juice
Another dealer said the turbos would be arriving next week.
DaveM
Taller ain't bad if you're past 6'2" with a yearning for Subarus. I smiled at Stickguy's remark about preferring horizontal to vertical space. If only I could drive an OB VDC from a supine position, I'd own one by now. To each his own.
I too was surprised by the LSD on the 2005 VDC. From the Forester I have mixed feeling about it's safety and efficasy wrt to driving (as opposed to getting SLOWLY through mud or snow). Another item I'm going to watch closely before I buy a 2005 OB VDC (assuming, optimist I am, I can fit into OB cockpit in something other than a horizontal position).
Jake
Having spent a couple hours driving the base 2005 OB (and as an 04 XS Forester owner) the transition from one to the other is jarring. For a start OB outbound visibility is much less in the OB.
That may not seem important when you do a test drive on a bright sunny day like I did, but wait until dark, rain, or snow (or all the above). And this reduced outbound visibility combines with a longer vehicle to make backing up in tight parking situations more difficult. Maybe not a problem for a twenty-something driver without glasses but for older drivers wearing glasses, outbound visibility counts a lot.
Not my intent to discourage you or anyone else thinking about trading a Forester (esp a 2nd Gen Forester which is a superb vehicle as far as it goes). I'm seriously considering swapping my 2004 for a VDC OB, but it's easy to get distracted by benefits, not notice the cost until the honeymoon is over.
Jake
Did you get a chance to compare 2005's headlight and fogs at night? Wondering how far they cast a beam (vs 2004 OB) and what, if any, trade-off in peripheral illumination occurs. 2005's headlights appear to be a "HID-Lite": designed to give sharp and focused illumination. Does it walk the talk?
Also wondering what you thought of the brakes on the heavy OB (eg VDC). Did they let you test them for fade and high-speed stops?
Appears 2005 brake rotors are still smaller than the 2004 XS Forester's (20% lighter vehicle than a OB VDC). Do you think heavier OB trims will brake as well as the XS/XT Foresters?
CHeers,
HeavyB
- take in on a rough road,
- go over a higher than average speed bump, or
- go up steep driveway.
You WILL bottom.
I'm waiting for an Outback XT. 8.7 inches of ground clearance! No more sweating the bumpy stuff or having to crouch down to get in the stupid car.
Regards,
Dan.
Urmez
Can you give me some advice - I will be driving about 80 miles round trip daily in New England. Mainly a good, straight highway, but also about 5 miles from my house to the highway. I want a fast crusier, with AWD for the snow/ice. I also hear that stability control adds a larger margin of safety, esp in winter weather. But the turbo Legacy is definately more fun to drive!
So, what do you all suggest - do I go for the OB VDC and give up some fun for safety? Of is the Legacy without the stability control up to the winter weather?
I am really amazed Subaru does not offer stability/traction control on all their models...how can they claim to be safety leaders?
Well, appreciate all your input. I am buying in 2 weeks, so I need to decide soon....Thanks!
- I still maintain that the AWD in the Subi is better than most of the FWD/RWD cars with Stability and Traction control in bad weather. Obviously you should not abuse it (should drive carefully in bad weather), but AWD is unbelievable in bad weather, especially Subi's system.
- Also, make sure to have good tires as well. Very good all-season or snow tires should be a much greater advantage in bad weather than summer tires with stability and traction control (remember a Car and Driver test with an IS300 that struggled mightly getting up a snowy hill with stability control and traction control!!!!!).
- In other words, get the GT.
As far as that is concerned, go with the GT since the VDC doesn't have a manual available.
~alpha
~alpha
Ken
In terms of Stability control, I was under the assumption that it automatically cuts power when a person is about to loose traction with the wheels, whether front or rear. In other words, when a certain amount of force (latteral g's) is applied, power is cut. Is this far off?
BTW, Consumer Reports showed that AWD with all seasons was as good (maybe even slightly better) than FWD with snows. Obviously it depends on the tires, but still should note this. I forget the issue, but think it was spring of last year.
Not exactly the plunge I would like to make, as in buying a new Legacy, but I did apply for the Subaru Mastercard
Having just bought my current car less than a year ago, there is no way I would want to do anything anytime soon (wife would have something to say about that too), but I figure being at least a few years out from another purchase makes this the perfect time to start accumulating those Subaru points. We're building a new house and moving in this fall, so there should be some nice large purchases to be made on the credit card - landscaping, window blinds, furniture; if only there were no limit on those points!
I took a look at the new Legacy/Outback at a dealership earlier this week and love what I saw. The exterior is certainly nicely updated, but I think the interior is where the dramatic change has been made. Very upscale.
A couple of things I am surprised not to find on any newly redesigned car these days - auto UP (as well as down) windows, and a telescopic steering wheel. I am really surprised Subaru didn't incorporate the latter into the 05's. I have found it to be pretty valuable in my current and past cars in getting comfortable. I'm 6'3" with long legs, so naturally, I have to push the seat back as far as possible. With that, it's nice to pull the steering wheel a little closer.
One more thing - Can anyone offer up their take on the expected differences in handling between a Legacy GT wagon and an Outback XT? I love the GT sedan, but when it comes to the wagons, I just like the look of the Outbacks better, but don't really want to sacrifice much in the way of handling.
Sorry for the long post - I suppose I should post more often, instead of accumulating all my thoughts from the past month!
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
- I think you can also use the Subaru dollars for dealer service as well (like the 30K mile service). So, worse comes to worse, you can use the Subaru bucks for that purpose.
Brakes were fine on the track, like anchors, real good. The same cars were lapped twice by 14 people in each group, IIRC, with no fade.
Saw that Autoweek article, they may consider a different state of tune a different "engine", perhaps?
I'm a fan of stability control and I think Subaru needs to spread the love. It's no longer a "premium feature", the Focus and the Scion xB have it, the latter standard.
VDC is one of the better ones, perhaps even the best. 100% power to any given wheel, proactive, rear bias, what's not to like?
-juice
Auto up is one of those things that just scares corporate lawyers and liability insurers.
I agree that Subaru's engineers have outdone themselves on this latest Legacy but I wouldn't give them any undue credit. That "slot" is where the navigation system's computer would go if it were available. The other handy "sunglasses" slot above the A/C and stereo controls is where the display would go. If you ever get a dealer installed navigation system (assuming one eventually becomes available), it would take up those two spaces. If it never becomes available, you're right... very handy for the manual.
I think my official "lurker" status is gone. I've been lurking in this forum since October or November of last year and enjoying all the good discussions. Now I have some questions I hope someone can help out with. Allow me to apologize up front for the length of this one but let me to set the stage for my questions:
Late last year I was giving a serious look at the new WRX (2004 model with restyled headlights) and happened to come across some information about a new Legacy that would have the same engine as the WRX STI. It seemed pretty promising so I put off my WRX purchase to wait for this new Legacy.
While waiting, I built several spreadsheets comparing the virtues and vices (price, gas mileage, interior room, horsepower, torque, etc) of several cars: the WRX, Infiniti G35, Lexus IS300, Acura TL, Mazda 6 and RX-8, BMW 330i, Audi A4 and S4, and (for grins) the Jaguar XK8 convertible. Since then I have narrowed the field down to the G35 (sedan, 6MT, RWD) and the Legacy GT Limited.
Today I went to my local San Antonio Subaru dealership and took a look at the few 2005 models they got off the truck this morning: an Outback LL Bean and a Legacy 2.5i sedan. I looked at the sedan and had one word: wow. I looked at the LL Bean and the dealer told me to stop smiling or he would have to sell it to me.
Now I have one choice (Legacy) but many questions. I'll put them in my next post. Thanks for providing such great info in the forum!
Currently, I have a 94 Mazda Miata M-Edition that has a tan interior and some woodgrain accents. The LL Bean leather was lighter as were the wood accents. Very contemporary... did I mention appealing?
Question #1: does anyone know for certain if that same woodgrain is available in the Legacy GT Limited with the taupe leather or is it LL Bean only? The dealer wasn't 100% sure either way. The brochure he had (the same one Control Freak scanned into www.legacysti.com) noted on page 22 "Titanium Metallic interior trim with woodgrain-patterned accents" (footnote #2 at the very bottom). I am guessing yes.
Question #2: does anyone know for sure when the GTs are going to be at the dealerships? The guy I spoke with locally indicated some time in mid to late June. If they had had a GT Limited in Atlantic Blue Pearl with an interior the same as that LL Bean's, I would have probably been buying a car today.
Question: Given that the G35 was one of my two finalists in my new car search and given that I want to make sure I am getting the right car (I would like to keep my car for 10+ years), I did the full "print summary" comparison between the GT Limited and the G35.
To the G35, I added the premium package (Includes Bose premium 200-watt, 7-speaker audio system with RDS, AM/FM cassette and Nd woofer, power tilt/slide glass sunroof with one-touch open/close and pinch protection, dual climate control with rear vents (in the back of the center console arm rest) and interior air filter, driver's seat memory with entry/exit assist, 4-way power adjustable passenger seat, reclining rear seats with adjustable outboard head restraints, auto on/off headlights, Homelink Universal Transceiver, auto-dimming rearview mirror, all power windows one-touch up/down and full-size spare tire with matching alloy wheel.) I also added the aero body kit and sunroof to arrive at a $37,500 MSRP. I loaded up the GT and came up with $30,500. I fail to see anything substantial in the G35 that warrants a $7000 premium as far as significant deal-breaker kinds of items. Yes, the G35 has stability control, it has a full size spare, reclining rear seats, the Infiniti name, auto up/down windows, etc but am I missing anything huge? Yes, I realize the G35 6MT is RWD and not AWD but that is not a huge thing in my book. The G35 has performance tires on it which I will probably add to the GT ASAP which would cost a bit.
Yes, the GT gives up 10 HP to the G35 and maybe a tenth of a second or two but I'm not Joe Ricer who needs a WRX STI. I want a nice, upscale car with some oomph that I can use to haul my family around on not too long trips. Right now we have to take my wife's minivan everywhere because my other car is a Miata. I personally don't mind putting the kids in the trunk but we get odd stares at the mall when we let them out. (I'm just kidding... don't call CPS on me)
Any thoughts or observations would be appreciated.
That wood trim is very nice. The matte finish is much classier than the shiny look of the current Outbacks (and that of many other cars these days). The new interior, IMHO, is so much improved as to put it at the same level as Audis and Acura, not to mention VWs.
As for the comparison to the G35, I think the Infiniti is a nice car. Being in Denver, I'd prefer the AWD, but since that is not available with the 6sp, I wouldn't consider it. It will be interesting to hear comparisons from people test driving once the turbo models are available. Despite the similar horsepower, I would expect the overall character of the turbo engine in the Legacy and the ubiquitous V6 in the G35 to be quite different.
To me, the Legacy GT is a very affordable competitor to the previous gen S4. Same hp, turbo powered, awd, etc. But more room, better reliability. All for $30k or less. I'm lovin' it.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Thanks for the clarification though.
Overall, this is an extremely well executed vehicle, and I was very impressed.
One of the things that stood out immediately was the comfort of the front seats- though they arent "sport seats", they definitely cradled the body. (The car we drove was still in plastic, it had actually not even been given a stock number yet, so I cannot comment on the quality of the fabric.)
The steering wheel is small diameter, the center stack is well laid out and interesting to look at, and I greatly appreciated the trick trip computer, which I didnt realize was standard, but found to be a very nice feature.
Braking felt solid, and the pedal reassuring, perhaps just a little spongy for the very first inch of travel, but overall very good. As expected, the car cornered fairly flatly, I pushed the envelope a bit on several off ramps, and was very happy (and amused!) with the car's responses. Given the handling, the ride was remarkable on some of Jersey's more daunting road irregularities and pockmarks.
Finally, cruising yielded little to no wind noise, and the boxer engine was remarkably quiet at speed.
Now, for some negatives.
Juice, I'm sorry, but I do not agree with you that this vehicle will hit 60 in 8.5. In fact, Id bet it will need another second. While I do realize this was a very green car, and as such, I did not nail the accelerator, I did rev it from a stop up past 5000 RPM, and the vehicle does not step off like the 4 cylinder Accords or even our 02 4cyl Camry, which clocks slightly slower than the Accord. This was one aspect my dad also noticed, without me mentioning it first. The 2.5i certainly isnt lacking for power, but it doesnt accelerate as aggressively as I expected, or would like. Maybe using brake torquing techniques the mags will do 8.5, but not I.
I was however, impressed with the transmission. I didnt find the "Sport" setting significantly beneficial, in fact, in passing, I thought it was a bit annoying- it REALLY holds the lower gear, even after you ease pressure on the accelerator, which causes a lugging for a few seconds. Otherwise, shifts are virtually undectable and mapping of the 4EAT is efficiently done. I do wonder, though, how much the MPG figures would improve with the 5 speed auto, what the cost to Subaru, and its consumers, really would have been had SoA/FHI used the extra ratio in these basic models.
The rear seat IS smallish, but I suppose thats not a big deal since this car purports to compete more so wearing higher line/GT dress, with vehicles whose back seats are also small. That said, anyone expecting Altima/Accord/Camry room will not find it. They are well shaped though, and space is utilized efficiently.
Some cheap details: I find the hood prop rod unnecessary, the donut spare is dinky, and I really wish the rear seat folded, especially given the sedan's diminutive (though adequate trunk).
I'm pretty confident that my parents will be getting one once their IMBA membership hits the 6 month requirement for invoice pricing.. or whenever the dealer can come in at invoice.
IMO, this new Subaru is the most competitive Legacy yet. For anyone looking at the Camcords, but might have an interest in AWD and not really needing a large backseat, this car is the way to go.
~alpha
PS- Our test car stickered at $22,9xx. The only option was the auto-dimming rear view mirror.