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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I hit up a Subaru dealer in Central Jersey today. They just took delivery of their first 2005 Legacy- an Atlantic Blue Pearl 2.5i 5M. I couldnt test drive it, due to time constraints. But it sure looked great. This is the first time I've seen the standard alloys- they're sharp, and the center stack looks just as good with non-auto climate control. Plastic coverings all over the interior, but the cloth seemed very nicely patterned and of high quality.

    I'm sorry I missed the chat tonight, Im going to try to tune in next week.

    ~alpha
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Are they "made" in Lafayette or is it just the final assembly point? I'm confused as I've heard the engines are actually made in Japan, but I also have heard SIA is firing up an engine assembly plant as well. I know I've seen a website for SIA but can't seem to recall (or find) the URL at the moment.

    -Ian
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    The engine plant you spoke of was announced in 2000 and is operational. Even the turbo engines are now made in Lafayette. I am not certain about the H6, which may indeed come from Japan.

    See:

    http://tinyurl.com/yrdkx
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    To mjc440: I would be ecstatic if I could get 30.5 MPG out of my MT Outback. The car is rated at 27 MPG and my best ever "interstate road trip" MPG was 25. (I've kept a spreadsheet since new.) I'm running synthetic engine and gear oil, clean air filter and tires at the proper PSI and alignment and that's the best I can do. I accelerate conservatively, but the posted speed is 70 MPH on the highways I drive, so I nominally cruise at 75 MPH.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The sticker on the window of the Atlantic blue 2.5i showed the point of final assembly as Lafayette, but the engine and transmission assembly points as "Japan".

    ~alpha
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    I can validate 30+ MPG in a Legacy.

    I exceeded 30 mpg during several trips in my 2000 Legacy with MT. One trip averaged 32 mpg. I wish I could say the same for my 2003 Legacy with the Automatic trans. The best I have seen with the 2003 auto is 28 MPG. I would gladly trade even for a manual transmission.

    gearhead4
  • j3studioj3studio Member Posts: 27
    Folks,

    I'm asking for a reality check on whether a 2005 2.GT Ltd Wagon with the 5A would be a good idea for us as our next daily driver. Let me describe our current situation:

    1) Married, no kids and none on the way

    2) Current daily driver is a 1999 Chrysler 300M, now with 85,000 miles. It was our only car when we bought it, so it served our sporting pretensions, but those are now served by a brace of Corvettes

    3) The wife does most of the daily driving and really wants 4-wheel drive this time (we live in Pennsylvania). She also likes performance (the Chrysler has 253 bhp) and handling (it's got the Performance Handling Package, which has a fairly European feel)

    4) We lug the usual homeowner stuff around in the 300M and use the fold-down seats a lot, so we eliminated the Legacy sedan from consideration when we found out that it didn't have a fold-down seat

    5) I've gotton accustomed to the 'near-luxury' of the Chrysler, so, if we got the Legacy, we would buy it loaded

    6) I realize that the Subaru is a fairly big change, which is why I'd really like to make the right decision - we'd love to have our next daily driver for 6 or 7 years.

    What do you think? Any and all advice appreciated...
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    In terms of performance, the Legacy GT will be far superior to the 300m. Even though both have similar power, the Legacy GT will be faster, with 0-60 times over 2 seconds faster than the 300m (0-60 in 7.8 secs). Also, the GT will be more nimble and a better handler (even the loaded wagon will be about 200 lbs. less than the 300M).

    Ride quality should be good in the GT (per the Edmunds review).

    Personally, I want to see what some of the car magazines say, as well as Consumer Reports before I decide, but it looks like the Legacy will be a serious contender in the mid-level sedan arena, if not a home run.

    Article on the 2005 Legacy -
    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/subaru/legacy/100396955/roadtesta- rticle.html?articleId=101838

    Info on the '99 300M - http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/chrysler/300m/14123/specs.html?t- id=edmunds.u.prices.leftsidenav..6.Chrysler*
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,432
    Goes to show the negative impact of the Outback (raised up, more "off-roadish" tires) on gas mileage. Just compare the EPA sticker on an '04 standard wagon vs. an outback to see what the relative difference you should expect is.

    At least 25 is much better than you would get from an Exploder or other real SUV.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    The Legacy should be just the ticket for you. To get comparable performance, features and AWD you would need to spend at least $10,000 more to move up to an Audi S4 or BMW 3 series wagon with AWD. Since I assume the Corvettes stay home on snow days, you might consider getting a second set of rims and keep one set shoed with true winter radials, e.g., Bridgestone Blizzaks for a go-anywhere vehicle for November through March and the second set with true performance tires for April through October.The Legacy GT suspension set-up, low CG and grippy low-profile tires will make you forget the "European" feel of a 300M before you get out of the first curve, even with the 5 speed SportShift Auto. Happy shopping!

    Mark
  • radianradian Member Posts: 21
    While I would heartily recommend the Legacy GT Wagon, I think you and your wife need to drive one to truly decide. It will be very different from a 300M, possibly too different. You may also want to check out an Outback XT or L.L.Bean depending on whether you ever intend to go offroad. And if the Legacy is too sporty, there's always a Passat Wagon with 4Motion. I know it's a VW (if you're worried about reliability), but Passats seem to be the best of VWs in reliability. It might even have fold-down seats in the sedan.

    I'm fairly certain you'll love the Legacy GT, but never having driven a Subaru before I think you'll need to see it in person to see if it fits all your needs.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    This is one of the times I would recommend trying a Dodge Magnum or a Chrysler 300C for comparison with the 300M. Especially if you need room. Those two vehicles are HUGE!!
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Yes the magnum would be worth a look. The Legacy GT is sized between the Civic/Corolla and the Accord /Camry (92/96/102 cubic ft). The 300/Magnum and the old 300m are about 107 cubic ft. There would be quite a step down in size.

    As mentioned the Passat is another nice choice, it is just a tad larger than the Subaru, but still smaller than the Accord/Camry. The TDI Passat would probably be more reliable than the gas version (which itself is average), and at EPA 27/38 is very tempting these days. It has as much torque as a Legacy GT.

    To me the 4-cyl non turbo is the most attractive Legacy, but it is the slowest.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    75mph is 20mph higher than the EPA. Try doing 55-60 for a trip and I bet you'll hit or exceed the EPA rating.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Looking forward to test driving an AWD V8 in the fall, maybe I'll pickup a used one in 2 years when they come off lease and are dirt cheap.

    -mike
  • ntk1ntk1 Member Posts: 57
    Went to the local dealer yesterday to look at a silver sedan. This is definately the color choice for me - the lights blend in very nicely and the lower part of the sides has just the right amount of emphasis. (and besides, I hardly ever wash my car and silver looks the least dirty). I am now waiting for them to get hold of a GT MT - will keep you posted
  • snowbirdsnowbird Member Posts: 120
    I am considering replacing my 97 Mercedes 420E. I am looking for:
    1. Comfortable seats and good (not stiff) ride on long journeys.
    2. Good pick up to merge into highway traffic and overtake.
    3. Go to Florida for winter so need more cargo space, but no "off-roading" at all.
    4. Good MPG.
    5. Good interior finish.

    Can anyone please help me decide which of the above 2005 models would be more suitable? Thanks.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Either one would be fine. You might also consider the '05 H-6 Outback. It has the same HP as the GT and XT you're considering. The H-6s have audio steering wheel controls, where as the GT and XT have shifting controls on the steering wheel, if you get the 5EAT.

    Bob
  • ace1000ace1000 Member Posts: 151
    Regarding the importance of VDC, there was an article on stability control systems (ESC) in the May 11 issue of the Wall Street Journal. The person at NHTSA who is in charge of its rollover program "cites a Mercedes-Benz study that showed a 30% reduction in single-vehicle crashes, calling it [ESC] 'staggeringly effective.'"

    I've decided not to buy a Subaru until I can get the model I want with VDC. If my current car breaks down before Subaru offers VDC on the Legacy and Forester, then I will get something else.
  • salbaby1972salbaby1972 Member Posts: 165
    My wife and I stopped by a local dealer in LA and we saw the new Outback and Legacies. The Outbacks look very nice. They only had the 2.5i models in 2 tone paint. My wife was very impressed with interior in the Limted and non- Limted.

    They had a 2.5i Legacy Wagon which was nice, but not as nice as the Outback. The interior was nice in cloth but we are looking for the Limted packs.

    We are still waiting for the GT and 3.0R s to come in.

    I can't wait for a test drive and to see how it stacks up against the Mazda 6 wagon.

    Teh Atlantic Blue looked darker than in the pics. Also we saw a Crystal Gray and silver cladding Baja which was very cool.
  • snowbirdsnowbird Member Posts: 120
    Thank you, Bob, for your input. I hope to test drive all 3 models shortly. Do you know if any model has a firmer or softer suspension than the others? I don't like bumpy rides on I-75 all the way to Florida, especially during construction. Thanks.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I will have a good idea come Monday, as I will be driving them then. :) I really don't think you have to worry.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I crawled around an Outback Limtied and i sedan. Seemed very nice overall. Rear seat legroom was tight IMHO but they did a nice job semi scooping out the back of the front seats for more knee room. The rear would not be a place for 3 adults on a long ride. The headliner was very high quality.

    As expected, I did not like the 2 piece roof. It is huge but didn't have a tilt feature that I could find. The light tan - almost white - leather may be a maintenance issue for some IMHO.

    On a side note: it was hot today in Boston (appx 95 degrees at the dealership). While sitting in the back of the Outback I discovered the child safety locks were on. I was really careful climbing over the console in order to get via the front.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    That is one nice thing about manual windows. You can always roll the window down and open the door from the outside. What price progress? : ^ )
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    I sat in a 2005 Subaru Outback today! I was running errands and swung by the dealer, I was surprised to see them!

    They have about 5 - all basic, non turbo models. The new interior is GREAT. As nice as my 2003 Honda Accord, maybe even up to a low end Acura sedan like the TSX.

    Even the base models had 4 stage heated seats, firm bucket seats and classy interior materials. Quality grains and a nice headliner, unlike cheap Nissan. Real metal or convincing plood (plastic wood). This is the best interior by far of any subie. Our LL Bean has a great interior now but the wrx and forester are a little weak in the interior dept in my opinion.

    Size wise, the Forester is bigger in front. These have plenty of room in the driver's seat, more than our OB LL Bean. Passenger front seat is small though, not much improvement there. Comfy but not stretch your legs comfy for me. If it's a stick, I'd always be in the driver’s seat anyway!

    Stylistically, I like the subtlety of the legacy. Little things like the roof rails are low profile. I also like that the cars are offered in monochrome colors. I also like that tires are raised black letter, not white letter.

    Looking forward to an XT or GT turbo test drive!
  • j3studioj3studio Member Posts: 27
    Thanks everybody for the feedback! One more question (for now) ...does anybody have any good pictures of what Regal Blue Pearl looks like?
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    Looking at the specs, limited editons of the Outback XT and Legacy GT seem to add $2500. For this you get leather power seats and dual sunroofs. That seems high for what you are getting. Am I missing something?
  • aveskiaveski Member Posts: 7
    I looked at some at a dealers today. Very nice, but for what I just paid for my 2004 Outback I'll have to content with that for the next few years. I'll send a report on my Outback soon.
  • bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    Hi,

    I just joined Edmunds and this is my first post. So, if I make a posting boo boo, I hope you'll understand.

    Yesterday, I drove a new Outback at Carter Subaru in Seattle, WA. I took some pics; here's a link to my gallery. Just click the gallery to enter:

    http://www.pbase.com/danclark/subaru_outback

    It was a base model Outback with the non-turbo four. My current car is a 2002 Audi A4 (6Sp, 3.0) so that's my basis of comparison.

    My impressions:

    In general, I liked it. Since I'd never driven one and since it had the base tires, wheels and suspension, I didn't push it, but I thought handling was quite good. The steering was VERY precise. And the turning circle was very short.

    I drove on I5 at about 70-75 MPH. If you've been on I5 in Seattle, you know that it has ruts and is fairly rough. The straight-line stability was top-notch! Much more stable than my Audi. And it is actually quieter at freeway speeds than my Audi. (I didn't expect that.)

    They also had a Legacy wagon. I liked the looks of the Outback MUCH better. the Outback had a more muscular appearance. More "heft", I guess. Very nice looking - front, back and sides. The Outback wheels are very attractive. The pics I've seen before don't do them justice. I hope my pic does.

    The ride was quite supple. Of course it had the soft, base tires. I'm looking forward to testing the XT to check the ride (and handling).

    Overall, I thought the quality was quite good. Fit and finish was very good. Material quality wasn't quite as good as my Audi, but pretty close in most areas. Of course the Audi costs about 20% more, so it should be a bit better.

    With one exception, I'm happy with the quality. The exception is the seats. I found the seats in the base model to be a little uncomfortable in the upper back area. And the fit and finish of the leather seats in the Limited model weren't as good as I'd like to see. The seams were OK, but some weren't straight. Since I have a back problem, I'm picky about the seats. I'm hoping that the XT seats will be better.

    One oddity that I found was that I liked the Moss Green color combination on the Limited much better than the blue base model that I drove (both are in my image gallery). IMO, it's because the newer Outback looks better with light over dark (Moss Green) versus dark over light (base model). I expected the reverse.

    Overall, I liked the car a lot. Assuming there aren't any major gotcha's with the XT and the seat is comfortable, I'll be buying an XT w\5AT.

    Regards,

    Dan.

    (Now I hope this posts correctly.)
  • iluvsubaru2iluvsubaru2 Member Posts: 56
    Joe,
    I was wondering if you found the 2005 OBs you looked at had more headroom than the 2004s. I drive a 2004 Forester and found it's the only Subaru I could fit in with a moonroof. IMHO anyone taller than six feet isn't going to be comfortable in the previous generation OBs with moonroof. I was hoping third generation OB would finally give us six footers a break. Did you compare 2004s with the 2005 OB?

    Waiting for my dealer's 2005 to see for myself but if if you'd been there and done that I'd be grateful for a reply.

    Thanks,
    Jake
  • iluvsubaru2iluvsubaru2 Member Posts: 56
    Bob,
    I'm with you on the VDC issue. I've driven VDC as well as other yaw controlled vehicles on ice and snow. There is no comparison to those without it. The only exceptions might be for elite drivers: skilled, attentive, very fast reflexes. And lucky. They will need luck to deal with what they can't see, such as the black-ice I test-drove my first OB VDC (very big and empty parking lot). I could not "lose control" as I did one emergency manuever after another. Could not spin-out on the Fish Hook and Double Lane Change manuevers, two common tests that can measure the risk of two vehicle and single vehicle collision.

    I'm disappointed in Subaru for offering VDC only on top trim OBs. It's a policy that's as indefensible as offering side air bags only on luxury trim lines and let the rest of their customers risk head-injury and death if they get T-boned or rollover. Why should they have to buy moonroofs, leather seats, premium sound systems to buy what is rapidly becoming routine safety equipment?

    I have owned the first and now own a second generation Forester but I will migrate to other automakers if I find a comparable vehicle that offers electronic stability control.

    Jake
    PS: Those who think AWD is enough understand neither AWD or Electronic Stability Control (all you elite drivers out there excepted:-)
  • michael2michael2 Member Posts: 31
    i'm fortunate to have a cousin who owns a subaru dealership, so this evening i'll be ordering a 2005 legacy gt limited turbo sedan, by phone, atlantic blue pearl.

    from what he tells me about it ,it's quite a step up, o-60 in 5.9 seconds. i'll be trading in my 2000 gt limited sedan, wit 77000 completely trouble free miles.

    i post the deatils of the deal when i have the info.
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    Jake - the headroom was better BUT I sat in a base outback without moon roof. I will have to try a direct comparison for you.

    In the legroom department, I would have to say the Forester is still king, though these new OBs are roomier.

    I have heard it said that manual seats provide a grater range of adjustment than powered ones. There were no Limiteds on hand to test this out, but it has me thinking that a cloth seated GT non-limited, or XT non-limited might be the way to go for tall folks.
  • zoomer1zoomer1 Member Posts: 42
    You are right on! As one who has been bemoaning the fact that Subaru decided to nickel and dime VDC--on a $25K-$28K car I a am glad to see that even Edmunds said that SOA should have included Stability Control in their cars (at least made it an option)...other publications are following suit with the same lament. Reviews are very positive overall--good to see that. Disappointed about the MPG though. I agree with you that those who think AWD is enough.....don't know better....
  • bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    I drove the Outback last Saturday - a base model. (See my other post.) But I did sit in an Outback Limited with the sunroof. The salesman told me that the front portion of the sunroof tilts up. I didn't try it though.

    Regards,

    Dan.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The salesman told me that the front portion of the sunroof tilts up. I didn't try it though.

    The switch for the roof only seemed to have two postions - it wasn't marked so I presumed open/close only. I know the front part tilted up when the back was open but most have a tilt feature so the back tilts open for ventilation in hot parking lots.
  • bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    It would seem logical for the switch to tilt up the front portion first, followed by the sliding portion. Has anybody tried this?

    Regards,

    Dan.
  • dwcoloradodwcolorado Member Posts: 10
    Add one more person wishing Subaru provided stability control across all the models.

    Stability control is important enough for me that I'm now seriously considering the competitors that do have stability control standard or as an option (1.8T A4/Passat most likely). The XT/GT sounds like it would have won hands down with stability control, but without??? Just waiting for the GT/XT's to come in so I can do a one day test drive marathon and make some decisions.
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    Am I alone in prefering the clean styling of the Legacy to the Outback? The lower ride height also equates to better cornering, an observation also made by the Edmunds testers here.

    Ideally, I'd drive an Audi or BMW (minus the German reliability woes). Or a WRX with a little more cush and a little less rally inspired styling. Maybe the Outback appeals to someone who would drive a Volvo cross country (minus scandanavian reliability woes).

    Audi, BMW, WRX, Volvo wagon are all nice cars, depending on mood. I am hoping Legacy GT will add a dallop of performance a la Forester XT or WRX to a well thought out family vehicle.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Nope, you're not alone. ;-)

    While I do like the new look of the Outbacks the Legacy is just "cleaner" looking. I also agree that the lower ride height should improve it's driving dynamics.

    There's a great review of the new Outback at: http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/05outback.htm

    Cheers!
    -Ian

    p.s. Juice and Bob should be back from Las Vegas by now. Anybody know where they're posting their impressions?
  • chronochrono Member Posts: 149
    Your not alone. I prefer the Legacy over the Outback but I'm also looking into the performace aspect of these cars moreso then others. I've got the Legacy GT as my next car to buy with the 330i being second. I don't think the 11K premium is worth the cost for the 330i.

    BTW, someone off the Legacy Owners Association has scanned the entire 2005 Legacy brochure ..
    http://www.legacysti.com
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Or a WRX with a little more cush and a little less rally inspired styling.

    Sounds like a Saab 9-2x might be to your liking. Saab is doing ride & drives of the 9-2x at various places around the country. I've signed up for the one near Philadelphia; others here have signed up for the events in their areas as well.

    Ed
  • salbaby1972salbaby1972 Member Posts: 165
    Maybe Bob and Juice won big in LV and SOA gave them free Legacy GTs to be quite.

    I'm betting that the Legacy GT will be alot like the WRX. Just by looking at the GT's weight/power compared to the WRX's weight/power, it should be a great ride. I like the WRX wagon but it is too small to be the ONLY car in the family.

    I like the GT as well, but the wife seems to think it looks unfinshed when comparing to the OB.
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Thanks for the heads up on the review. I was just thinking how the 3.0R was going to be passed up in all reviews by speed junkie journalists in favor of the XT. Great to get some detail on the motor, no mention of Sportshift but auto sounded like a champ.

    Any idea which model is shown in the interior shot (pre-production I assume...but could be the first sighting of the Canada-only 3.0R base cloth model which I have on order)?? The green car (our color pick) was likely a 3.0R VDC with moonroof and the white one was a base 2.5i.

    JP
  • stevekstevek Member Posts: 362
    I would not ever buy an outback, however my Legacy GT is one of the best vehicles I ever owned. My 78 year old mother: hey it rides better than our LaSabre, my 40 something cousin with a SAAB and an Acura: wow can I drive it some more, my rich friend with a BMW 8 series: I could not keep up with you on that off-ramp curve.
    Now with a nice turbo (or even better suprecharger) would be sweet.
  • bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    Have you seen the new Outback up close and personal?

    Last Saturday, I went to Carter Subaru in the Seattle area. I got a chance to drive an Outback and to see an Outback next to a Legacy Wagon. (For pics, see my post above.)

    When I went in the dealership, I had a neutral opinion about the Legacy design versus the Outback design, with a little more positive impression of the Legacy. I took one look at them side by side and lost interest in the Legacy.

    The the Legacy looks sleek and dynamic in pics and the Outback looks "bulgy". In person, I got a much different impression. The Legacy wagon looked delicate and small. The Outback looked much more robust. The Outback design looked balanced, while the Legacy Wagon looked "unbalanced" (I really don't know how to explain it better).

    I think the issue is pictures. The Legacy wagon takes good pics, while the Outback looks great in person. You can't appreciate the more robust appearence until you see the Outback in three dimensions.

    Anyway, this is impression. YMMV.

    Regards,

    Dan.
  • luck11luck11 Member Posts: 425
    Hi. Strange request for anyone out there that might find themselves beside an 05 Outback or Legacy Wagon and have a measuring tape on hand!

    I just picked up a cargo carrier for my 00 Outback, and tried it on this evening. The mounting brackets just barely fit inside the rails (needs some extra install fiddling). My concern is whether this carrier will fit an 05 OB or Legacy Wagon since I plan to upgrade this year. What I need, is the measurements between the rails (inside to inside of rails). I need one near measurement between the rails at the back and another at the front since the rails might taper in at the back as they do on my OB.

    Also, if anyone has close up shots of the rails and cross bars, I would certainly appreciate if you could post.

    Subaru Canada is doing a Test Drive Event in Montreal in June...hope to get there, but in case I cannot, appreciate anyone that can help.

    Thanks in advance.
    Cheers.

    BTW, Subaru Canada website also has a new spread on the 05 OB and Legacy:

    http://www.subarulegacy.ca
    http://www.subaruoutback.ca
  • bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    Be careful what you ask for. You may get it.

    I have a 2002 Audi A4 V6, 6Sp with 24000 mile. It is without question the single most UNRELIABLE car that I've ever owned.

    While it is a great looking car with excellent fit and finsh, it's a coverup for a multitude of sins. For example, it's been in the shop over 25 times for non-routine maintenance. I had to have it towed twice. It would have been three times, but I was able to push start the car once. The coils have been replaced(twice!). The battery has been replaced. An electronics module burned out the Battery and several light bulbs. It had an oil leak that was repaired.

    Besides things breaking...

    -- The radio is the single WORST radio that I've ever had in a car; my wife's RAV4 with basic OEM radio does better.

    -- The heater is abysmal. If the outside temperature is under 60 degrees and you set the thermostat to 64 degrees, the heater pumps 122 degree air (I measured it) in your face until the car temp reaches 69 degrees (I measured that too). The dealer and Audi said that the heater was "performing normally".

    -- The ventilation system is horrible. I couldn't figure out why the flow of air was so distracting from the eye-level vents. They are smallish, but not that small. Then I actually measured where the air is coming from. Even though the dash air vent is about 2 inches by 3 inches, the actual air comes out in the center 1 inch by 1 inch portion. So you get no air or a blast in the face. (The 2005 Outback that I drove had air vents that are quite nice by comparison. Large and useful.)

    -- The six speed Audi transmission sounds "spiffy" doesn't it? Well try shifting quickly. It's very notchy and slow shifting. You can NOT hurry the shift. In everyday driving it is one PITA (Pain in the ...). And I have 20 years experience in stick shifts. (My 1988 Acura Legend Coupe was wonderful.)

    -- The stick shift knob has a chrome ring that cracks and starts breaking off chuncks. These chuncks cut your hand (drew blood twice). It has been replaced once and needs replacing again.

    -- And that low slung, Audi looks great doesn't it. Well, with 4" of ground clearance, don't take it on a fire road. Or even over a good sized speed bump. I've bottomed the car many times.

    So, if you REALLY want an Audi A4, mine will be coming off of lease shortly. If you truly love pain, I'll put you in touch with Audi leasing. I'm sure they can arrange a quick transfer of my pain to you.

    Me? I'm going to get a Subaru.

    Regards,

    Dan.
  • iluvsubaru2iluvsubaru2 Member Posts: 56
    I've not got specs in front of me but the change in the shape of the OB roof (more domelike than 2004), seats that move further back by what seems like maybe 3 inches (driver's seat) meant I could operate an OB clutch safely and comfortably, which I've never been able to do before. 2005 OB seemed couple inches wider, and wheelbase a bit longer vs 2004.

    I tested a base model but it handled better than AT 2004s tested: steering very precise and superb cornering. Brakes are better, more like Forester's (ie larger disc, EBD). MT nice, smooth clutch. I love the 50/50 default torque split on MT AWD but that's old news for Subaru MT owners.

    Fit and finish was typical "Indiana Outback", by which I mean not as tight and precise as the 100% Japanese produced and assembled Forester. On the OB tested, two examples: actuation lever for tilt steering had too much lateral play, and I noticed the fuel lid was loosely seated. But this kind of thing is not unusual for OBs. Walking my dealer's lot after the drive I checked six 2004 OBs: one third had play in the lid, one had too much play in the tilt actuation lever. By contrast every Forester I checked was uniform with no play in tilt actuation lever or fuel lid. Japanese quality control.

    I mention this only to say it won't deter me from seriously considering the 2005 OB especially if I can fit in a VDC (which I just might). What seems to suffer in US "made" Subarus are fit and finish, usually not deal-breaking issues.
     
    What I'll be watching closely are reports on how well Subaru has implemented critical performance and safety features such as Side Air Curtains, the larger SABs, upgrades to the passenger cage, and braking system. Alot of what's added to 3rd Gen OB has been well-designed and executed on the 2nd Gen Forester. I want to see now if Subaru can walk the talk with the 2005 OB. We'll soon see.

    Jake,
    PS: 2005 OB seats are better for tall guys than a Forester: offers higher headrests which are safer and more comfortable.
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    Thanks - there is a local Saab dealer and they might have a ride and drive. I'll reserve judgment till I see it, but I think I would feel like the 9-2x is not a good deal compared to a turbo Legacy or Outback. The 2.5 L should be stronger than the 2.0 in the Saab. But the price would be close.

    Maybe when I sit in one, I'll think the 9-2x the perfect compromise, but for now, it seems like not too much more in the way of content for the money relative to similar Subaru choices.
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