Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

ateixeira

"a different kind of car" - wasn't that Saturn? :-)

Hey, the trails we're supposed to be taking aren't mapped out, they're not roads at all, right?

But seriously, 93% of Outbacks are wagons. Camry and Accord do not come in wagons. 0% of those cars have AWD. There isn't much overlap at all.

-juice

radian

At nasioc, a reviewer for a magazine I've never heard of said he couldn't post any opinions on the Legacy or Outback until May 7th. So maybe this Friday we'll get to see something online? Maybe Edmunds will even do a First Drive on it (I wouldn't expect a Full Test for a few months).

Still waiting for the reviews, MPG (on GT models especially) and GVW (weight). Like Bob said before, the rumor about the 4-year 48k-mile warranty was just a rumor and nothing more.

ateixeira

Yep, Patti can only spill the beans tomorrow, even then not all of them. I think the chat will be fun, though.

-juice

hondafriek

My sentiments entirely, it's amazing how something that was considered a luxury item not too long ago is now a must have, even to the point of being a deal breaker.

  Cheers Pat.

buddhabman

Subaru in their conservative, methodical or plodding way does address the market.
First it was tinny built cars, the Legacies and Imprezas since 97 are much better. Then it was the engine, do you remember before they had 165Hp engines; but the 2.5L motor became a workhorse in the whole Outback turnaround. Now they have the H6, a turbo 2.0 & 2.5. Finally it's the interior and quality of materials. The interiors have been improving since 97, and hopefully the new legacy will truly show a new quality level.

mfh

ntk1

As promised earlier :-
Saw the Atlantic blue - it was considerably darker than the impression given by need-desire and I am seriously considering it. However I will have to see the silver before deciding. I placed an order at the dealer on a 2% over invoice price for a Legacy sedan GT MT. Only decision left is the color. While at the dealer I looked over a 2005 outback wagon (black), this vehicle looks very nice and I had to think twice before going with the sedan. what ever you choose, I think you will be happy.

goneskiian

North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club. Just plug in to the usual www._____.com. Unfortunately because they also have forums I'm not allowed to provide a link. ;-P

-Ian

magoon

My local dealer called today. My ordered GT Limited 5 speed (silver w/graphite) is due in the week of May 17. I wasn't aware that base models are on the floor already though. I'll have to drive by and see if there are any yet.

salbaby1972

U saw them, lucky duck!

legacy191

You lucky dog. My dealer in Minnesota is still saying that the first one to come in will be black with Camel leather and won't hit the door till May 20th. I guess i will have to wait till then !!!!!!

Tony T

caz_mn

I'm also in MN and very interested in checking one of these out. What dealer are you refering to?

salbaby1972

A dealer in LA told me that they will get them in on the 18th.

mfh

Do you think that the average driver is going to sufficiently appreciate the power difference between an 04 and o5 H6 3.0 engine. I ask b/c the 04s are going to be 3-4000 cheaper. Interestingly, this addresses the $30000 price question b/c that seems to be breaking point for me too!

ateixeira

HP is up by 38, but torque only by 5 lb-ft IIRC. My guess is you won't feel a big difference.

Gearing remains tall, so they'll be fuel efficient. I think the 180 lbs weight loss will make a bigger difference than the 5 lb-ft.

The XT will be quicker and cheaper than the current H6, but it won't have the quiet, luxurious character.

-juice

alpha01

"but it won't have the quiet, luxurious character."

Isnt it a bit early to make that judgement? And cant the H6 still be had in the wagon? Finally, IMO, theres a lot more than power to consider in the difference between the 04 and 05? What about the 04s cheapy, 80s looking dash compared to the new models, or the Side Curtains? Just a counterpoint.

~alpha

bat1161

Juice,

I feel the XT LTD will be luxurious as well, especially compared to the older Outbacks. That is one of my selling points to my wife for "upgrading". It will have the combination of luxury feel, with some sportiness.

Mark

pon1

Gets sportshift and the 5EAT also.

Make better use of the power/torque/weight loss

The aussie 3.0R with the 5EAT does 0-60 in the mid 7's, not bad??

I still think if I get the H6, I'll secretly long for the Turbo with MT. Less likely the other way round.

Try test driving an 04 FXT and an 04 H6.

Actually don't. You may get really confused.

Agree the OB XT will feel luxurious and more modern than any current OB.

ateixeira

I've sampled the 2.5T in the Forester. It's not exactly loud, but not ultra-quiet like the current H6. The Legacy's engine will be tuned more aggressively, though extra insulation might offset that a bit.

Still, even the old H6 is so quiet, we couldn't hear it idle. My wife reached for the keys to turn it on, and it was already running.

05s get the side curtains like you mentioned, plus 4 level heated seats and those cool projector beam headlamps. Better styling, huge moonroofs, much nicer materials, 5th gear ratio, SportShift, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love the 05s, I'm just saying a budget buyer looking for value can pick up an '04 ultra-cheap.

Fitz has an AWP Outback, 2004, for $18.4k. I could barely believe my eyes. The 2005 Outback starts at $23,995 plus freight. Even the best negotiator is going to spend $22k or more, that's almost $4 grand more than the 2004 right now.

The 2005 is fantastic. The 2004 is a major bargain.

-juice

Kirstie_H

You can now provide links to other sites that host automotive message boards. What you still can't do is a) link directly into other forums, or b) promote other forums (e.g., go to www.myfavoritecarforums.com - they have much better boards).

ateixeira

In that case, check it out: http://nasioc.com/

Disclaimer: their signal/noise ratio is not nearly as good as Edmunds'. These boards are much better.

-juice

jon1

check out subdriven.com

100k

Here's something I can't figure out. How and why do you have heated seats without leather? Doesn't the interior description on need-desire seem to suggest the GT gets heated seats, but only the GT Limited gets the leather seats? Do you guys know if you can get a moonroof on the GT? Need-desire makes me desire a better website.

chrono

Yea, I'm wondering the same thing about the heated cloth seats. The GT used to have 8 way power seats standard on that site but now it has disappeared off need-desire. No mention of the 8 way seats anywhere. At this time the only way to get the moonroof is by getting the Limited.

zman3

I have heated cloth seats in my 98 OB and I love them. I am personally kind of indifferent about leather but I will definitely get heated seats again.

chrono

Hope this isn't a repost but the "first drive" is up on the site .. looks good !!!

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/101838/articl- e.html?tid=edmunds.h..reviews.rightbanner.1.*

ateixeira

Cool, MP3 on the VDC, didn't know that...

Nav for 2006, they say.

Almost no lag - reminds me of the Forester XT.

Good review overall, and they compare it to the cars I consider it's peers: Mazda6 and TSX. Both on the smaller/sportier end of the segment.

-juice

chrono

All the whining about Nav should end .. straight from the article ..

"We were told, however, that a navigation system will be available starting in the 2006 model year. "

ateixeira

Saab 9-2x gets a HID option, so maybe SoA will gauge how popular that option is, also.

-juice

chrono

Most likely, once the new model is established I'm sure they'll add that as an option too. Could be next year seeing how Nav looks to be
an option for 06 .. woo hoo, then everyone will be happy : )

alpha01

That article was perhaps the most factually accurate, well-written, interesting, and fluid ever to flow off the keyboard Edmunds.com editor. Well done, an excellent read. (The only error I saw was that the trick instrumention was described as available only on Turbo Legacys- but the 2.5 Limited will have it as well. Hardly earth shattering.)

Bottom Line: I want one!
~alpha

chrono

Agreed, I can't wait for my Regal Blue GT Ltd with taupe leather interior to be sitting in my driveway!

ateixeira

I agree about the article being well written.

It was an easier read than the one on Subdriven.

-juice

purduealum91

outback for $18,500. I cant believe that vehicle is still available. Its a tremendous value.

Tom

goneskiian

I can't wait for my Regal Blue GT Ltd with taupe leather interior to be sitting in my driveway!

And I can't wait to DRIVE my Silver GT Ltd wagon! ;-)

Why is it that we park on driveways and drive on parkways?
-Steven Wright

ateixeira

When are you thinking about comin'?

Sure, I'd pick you up.

I work not far from there, so if you arrived late afternoon on a weekday, it's sort of on my way home actually.

I'll be out of town May 13-14 (work retreat), and then again 16-18 (Legacy drive in Vegas), and once again on 27-30 (beach).

-juice

Kirstie_H

Hey, I was just going to post that! You beat me by an hour or so

chrono

sorry, I got so excited I had to share ; )

kens

Great review. I liked how Edmund's covered both the GT and Outback. I'm also glad to hear how they felt the GT was just as fun to drive as the TSX and Mazda 6 -- which kind of tells you the class of vehicle it's going to be compared with.

I also share Edumnd's sentiment of Subaru offering VDC and high-end audio only on their top of the line Outback. Even though the GT has come very far, it's one or two notches below in features.

The review has whetted my appetite for a GT wagon even more! Was there any indication that the GT they reviewed was a sedan or wagon?

Ken

casecom2

Great review ... for a First Drive it was longer than many full test reports!

I might have to test-drive a Legacy GT just for the heck of it. I looked at a 2003 Legacy GT last time I went car shopping and was unimpressed; this looks like a big step up.

My one disappointment, judging by the photos, is the exterior styling; it's just too conservative. The Legacy sedan still looks too much like a late '90s Accord. Maybe it'll look better in person. The cladding seems to help the Outback, though.

alpha01

A disappointment! Are you kidding? The GT looks great with those stock alloys and functional hood scoop. Its the perfect blend of sleeper with sophistication and sport. Love it. (I usually dont talk about style simply because its so subjective, but I really had to interject here.)

~alpha

kens

From the Toronto Star review:

"As you would expect, the load bay is wide, low and easy to access. What's neat is that the seats fold flat with the touch of a button on the side panels, meaning no awkward reaching and yanking of plastic levers. "

Did we ever get to the bottom of the one-touch folding seats?

Ken

arbalest

Nav in 2006... cool...

but I'm curious why we can't have the stereo system that some part of the world is getting, like this one...http://www.subaru.de/legacy4-int-auto_aircon.jpg

with the item between the 2 LCDs been a casette player. That way, using adaptor, I can connect my MP3 player to the stereo. Or...Subaru could offer an 3.5mm stereo AUX-in, that would work too

pzev

I still haven't seen a new Legacy in person, but after looking at the specs and some pictures of NA-spec cars I'm starting to reconsider the car a bit.

First why must they cut costs so bad on the base model to have smaller brakes than the limited version? I can understand the GT with bigger brakes for obvious reasons but the base model has smaller front discs than a base Mazda3i 2.0 (the Mazda3s 2.3 has even bigger discs). This car has not only a bigger engine than the Mazda3 2.0 and more power but will probably weigh a solid 300-400 pounds more. I'm sure the brakes are up to the task but still.

The other thing is after seeing pictures of a base model interior the vinyl-wrapped steering wheel looks extremely cheap. The design is fine, but the vinyl or whatever it is they're using looks really cheap. They should have just went with a leather-wrapped steering wheel to go along with the otherwise upscale and high-quality looking interior. The steering wheel you'll be touching the most and why have it look and feel cheap inside a high quality interior such as this? Hopefully it's better in person than in pictures.

I have no use for AWD living in the south but no beige interior on the base model, lack of engine immobilizer which is very common nowadays, and the other things I mentioned kind of turn me away from the car. Thumbs up to Subaru though for making side curtains, 4-wheel discs, and ABS standard without forcing people to take a moonroof.

hondafriek

Don't often get downright nasty on these boards, but you know all the whining and moaning lately about why can't we have this stereo system, or no nav system or lack of HIDs is making me more than a little testy.

 When the suggestion was made about a Legacy turbo you could almost see the drool running down computer screens at the mere thought. Now it is reality and all you hear are moans about well you can get all these things on cars costing much less.

Well if Navi and HIDs and super stereo systems mean that much go buy the friggin competitors car and stop moaning about whats not on the Legacy and start appreciating what is on it.

 Maybe by the time I get back to the boards full time again in the fall the moaning will have gone away, especially when folks start actually owning the car.

 (Rant off)

  Cheers Pat.

dcm61

I second that Pat.

Enjoy your summer at the lake.

DaveM

alpha01

I think you are really grasping at straws. If the Legacy's brakes prove adequate and offer good pedal feel, I could care less how the job gets done. You also have a strong opinion on thethe steering wheel tactile quality, based on a picture. Good job! Way to judge prematurely!

So basically, on your bizarre list of things that steer you away from the vehicle:

1) No engine immobilizer (standard security system holds no water?)
2) Disc brakes that you have deemed to be too small in the front, based on what the Mazda 3 offers.
3) The quality of the material used to cover the steering, despite that you have not touched or seen it in person.

Thats pretty picayune. I think your only warranted issue is the lack of interior color choice, but yet, that seems to bother you least. Different strokes for different folks, I guess....

Happy Motoring
~alpha

morphie

All opinions should be welcome. Civility, on message boards, is especially prized.

qbrozen

Yeah! Ya know, everyone should just forget about what they actually want in a car. I think I'm going to run right out and buy myself a Honda Insight. So what if the only feature I like about it is good gas mileage? I should appreciate that mileage and say "to hell" with everything else I'm looking for in a car.

OK, all sarcasm aside, we're looking at a fast car with AWD. This is a luxury item. We don't NEED to go fast and we don't NEED AWD. But we WANT them, just like some of us WANT Navi, HIDs, cellphone hookups, neon lit interiors, or whatever.

I do want to say, however, that I think some of this complaining can be attributed to the subaru fans here who, time and time again, say that their opinions matter and seem to get noticed by SOA here on these boards. Gee, you maybe think that people who complain about HID and Nav are just repeating what has been done here in the past and "received recongnition"?

I seem to remember not too long ago very long discussions right here on the edmunds subaru boards involving "wishlists" and "what I'd like to see from Subaru." I don't remember anyone crying at that time "just accept the subarus for what they are!"

bigelm

"Whining" how you call it, is just the same as a wishlist but with sentiment!!!

Just like you have voiced your opinion, then let everyone do the same!!!

IF you're tired of the "whining" then skip the post and read what interest you!

Me... I already whined and complained and have just moved on... and will move on!!!

Everyone else deserves that as well.