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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+



  • zman3zman3 Posts: 857
    I know I said I would shut up, but....

    I actually like your points. I think we ought to test all drivers periodically, at least written tests and preferably behind the wheel tests. All the tests you list should apply to everyone and not only SUV drivers. It probably is not realistic in todays society but it doesn't hurt to dream. I would even support reduced insurance rates for individuals who volunteer for refresher training, like they do for some seniors.

  • mjc440mjc440 Posts: 76
    I saw the post on the colors, I was just being sarcastic and wondering why color availablility is such a big secret. We already saw the interior and exterior, the specifications, options, etc. of the new Legacy, why not release the colors?
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Posts: 381
    Where'd you see the specifications and options for these vehicles. I've seen the need-desire site and OK, some of the spec's have been listed but some are still getting the * (* = specifications are subject to change).

    Options? I have yet to see a list of options. I know Subaru has given us some teaser information about the different trim packages but I wouldn't call that a list of the options.

    Also, a few posts back someone mentioned how excited they were about the Legacy GT getting the Macintosh audio system. I know Subaru has included it in other countries but so far there's no word on whether we'll get it in North America. I sure hope so though as that's the car I want as well (Wagon please in Silver or blue).

    Official pricing would be nice too. ;-)

  • sebberrysebberry Posts: 148
    the McIntosh motion.

    With the "premium" sound system going downscale (losing 2 speakers and by the looks of it, the subwoofer), a Delco unit in a Sierra work truck is likely to sound better.

    One thing that makes a long trip over the mountains even better is a good sound system. (No, the turbo alone doesn't cut it..)

    It appears that it will be difficult to upgrade the stock system with the new integrated look. this fact alone emphasizes the need for the McIntosh.

    As I mentioned in a post a long time ago, the McIntosh and the NAV are the dealbreakers. No Mac, I keep my current Beaner.

    And as for the old lady post, I'm 20. I'm male. And I bought an Outback. Nope, no lowered Civic for me *as I see it getting smaller and smaller in the rearview on a slippery hill :) *

    Oh, and did I say include the McIntosh? Just wanted to be sure. A Kenwood upgrade just won't cut it for me.
  • rob_mrob_m Somewhere North of BostonPosts: 813
    ... for getting back on the subject!

    I felt like I walked onstage to a Monty Python skit. Is this 2005 Legacy and Outback? No this is SUV argument, Legacy is down the hall.

    Anyways .... my requirements

    GT LTD
    Upgraded Stereo with subwoofer and XM ready
    Security System
    Rear Spoiler

    Basically my 99 GT LTD 30th, which I am very happy with, but newer, faster and better handling.

    Of course, price will be key. Anything more than $2k increase over current model will have me looking at comparable models - Acura TL, Volvo or Saab.

    BTW, I am on Subaru #3 and #4, and look forward to #5.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    Would you pay more than a $2K increase for added features, though? Or is that hard-and-fast?

    (and yeah, let's stay away from the SUV/anti-SUV argument, or I'll banish you to "I don't like SUVs... why do you?" :))


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  • rob_mrob_m Somewhere North of BostonPosts: 813
    Definitely not hard and fast, but price and my own perceived value will be a factor. I don't need a new car, but want one.

    Popularity of the car will come into play. I hope that this cars' performance remains understated. If everyone wants one, and I have to pay a premium price, I might not go for it.
  • rob999rob999 Posts: 233
    With the release of any new model car, there's always an initial surge from folks who will pay a premium for the new model. Think of all who paid at least $10K over MSRP for the new T-Bird when it first came out. One local dealer added a $6,000 "market adjustment" to the sticker for the WRX STI when it was new. More typical is pricing right at MSRP. If you wait a few months after the initial demand dies down you will probably get a better price.

    As far as pricing on the new Legacy, consider that the Forester XT w/ leather has an MSRP around $27,700 - so I would imagine the new Legacy w/ turbo and leather will be a bit more than that.
  • zman3zman3 Posts: 857
    I am waiting to see pictures of an H6 sedan. My understanding is that this will only be available as an Outback sedan and not a Legacy. Does anyone know when pictures of an H6 sedan will be available?

    Patiently waiting.

    Thanks all.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    Why does it seem that most on the Subaru boards think every new Subaru should be cheap in price. I am not saying I want them to be expensive, but 30-35K is pretty average for a nice sports sedan/wagon. Once the price touches 30K on a Subaru you read people say "Oh if it's over 28K I am gonna look for something else, Audi, BMW, Volvo." Go ahead. I must be crazy but it seems that everyone can find a comparable AWD performer for cheaper. Yes my 99 Legacy GT Wagon @ 25K fully optioned was expensive for a 4 banger in 99. But the interior was decent and there wasn't one equal performer for cheaper or even close in price even until 2001. By performance I don't mean speed but I mean handling and driving experience. Hell if I had gone a tuning route I could've added a turbo and I would also include speed.

    Now we have the new upgraded Turbo Legacy and many think it should come in below 30K. This car is gonna go straight up against the Audi A4/S4/A6, BMW 330, Infinit G35, Jag X-Type, Volvo whatever, and Saab. Show it some respect price wise. 30-33K+ is very resonable for a fully optioned Subaru Legacy GT
  • redkey1redkey1 Posts: 270
    I think for those prices, it will get respect as a wagon but not as a sedan. However, I think those looking for a sedan will look elsewhere for that kind of money and possibly question the "need" for awd on a sedan. Reality is that subaru does not have the "prestige" factor that most buyers assume they will be getting when they pay more than $30k for a car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'll offer one answer: because size matters.

    Look at wheelbases, even the new Legacy has about a 105" wheelbase. It's definitely among the smallest in the mid-size class, boderline "big compact".

    So that means it has to compete with the TSX, not the TL. The A4, not the A6.

    So even if Subaru moves upscale, there is a limit as to what people will pay for a smallish mid-size sedan/wagon from a non-luxury brand. Top that off with some premium features not being availble (no Navi, no HIDs), and $30k+ is a tough sell.

    Price it like the TSX, not the TL.

  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    redkey1 - I agree somewhat as there are many great options for a sport sedan. But again all the true hot cars are over 30K when optioned out. If the interior and new styling features of the Legacy are what they are reported to be then it should have the same luxury feel and prestige. 250HP and the Legacy chassis / driving dynamics make it a fantastic ride. Now that the Legacy has a worthy motor, I'm pretty confident the upcoming mag comparos will bear this out.

    ateixeira - You're right size matters. The Legacy is smallish, but I think even the 2004 Legacy compares even up to the current A6 on interior volume. It is a narrow car, yet in terms of legroom & headroom somewhat, it matches up pretty well. It is surely smaller than a Maxima a bit smaller than the A6; same as the A4, TSX, TL, X-Type; surprisingly larger than the G35? and S60. Keep in mind that is the 2004 version, the 2005 is supposedly larger inside. Lack of Nav and Xenon is a loss, but I think the Legacy gets ONSTAR which is a nice bonus. If the interior is nicer on this model I feel the prestige will come, cause the performance is gonna be there. The price should reflect this.
  • zman3zman3 Posts: 857
    You said:

    "It is surely smaller than a Maxima a bit smaller than the A6; same as the A4, TSX, TL, X-Type; surprisingly larger than the G35? and S60."

    I haven't looked at any specs but I would be surprised if it was smaller than a Maxima and surprisingly larger than a G35 since they are the same platform. Is there really a difference is size?

  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    I don'tr have exact specs but I took the info from Edmunds vehicle comparison. Note, same chassis doesn't always mean same interior size.
  • redkey1redkey1 Posts: 270
    You can get a TSX w/ Xenons for $25,500.....I don't think that $5k is value enough for AWD and the addition of a turbo.
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    A TL w/Nav can be had for $35K, and have heard of people getting TLs w/o Nav for under $32K.

    If the Legacy GT, fully optioned is about the same price as a TL, it is going to be a hard sell. The Legacy may have better driving dynamics, but the TL will kill it in luxury, amenities, size, components, and prestige.

    Agree with Juice on this one.
  • Not sure if somebody has already posted this or not, but Subaru just pulled the wrapper off of a concept Legacy at the Geneva auto show. This particular model is called the 3.0R Spec B and uses the STI's six speed transmission mated to the flat six engine. Dreams do come true! If only they'll put this into production and sell it in North America. I'd buy it in a heart beat.

    Here is the link for some info:

    Here is the link for some photos:

    The Spec B photo is down the page. Autoweek has several good pics. Nice wheels.
  • mjc440mjc440 Posts: 76
    I'm hoping the Legacy GT sedan comes in no more than $28K. I love Subarus, but let's face it, how many people will be willing to spend $30-35K on a Subaru when they can get a 325, G35, C240, S60, X-Type, A4 or TL for the same price. Although it can run with the best, I don't think Subaru will be able to pull off being known as a luxury car.
  • zoomer1zoomer1 Posts: 42
    As long as you can buy a Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, and Mazda 6 for a base price of around $22K WITH several key options....there is no WAY that people will buy at $35k Subaru--I agree with your assessment. Also, checking the various e-tailers the average Subaru Legacy supply is quite high (over 60 cars available and as high as 150) and the price is running close to invoice ($18k-$20K). To jump to $30K is a real stretch for SOA. Finally, SOA will be competing with Ford 500s, Chevy Malibus, repriced Saabs 9-3, and new S40 and S60....goes on and on. Several of the new models from Ford and Dodge will have AWD (mated with CVT). The Pacifica can be had for about $32K with AWD after rebates. Much larger car with some MB parts in there and with several good reviews coming in from Autoweek and even Edmunds...So yes $30K for a 104.1 in wheelbase car with no luxury pedigree competing with Infiniti, Audi, Lexus, Saab, and Volvo (4 yr bumper to bumper warranty with roadside care) and the likes is a TOUGH TOUGH TOUGH sell. Let's hope that they can produce a car that has all of the right options AND is priced under luxury cars. After all I am starting to see more and more V6 Hyundai, Kia, and the likes that are taking sales from the $20K-$25k japanese crowd. Subaru has to compete with these brands as well.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    To me the draw of the Subaru is that it is a wagon, not the AWD. If there was an Accord or Camry wagon, then that is what I would compare it to price wise.
  • kenokakenoka Posts: 218
    "I haven't looked at any specs but I would be surprised if it was smaller than a Maxima and surprisingly larger than a G35 since they are the same platform. Is there really a difference is size?"

    The G35 is built on Nissan's FM(front mid-ship) platform, along with the 350Z and the FX35/45. The Maxima shares the FF-L platform with the Altima and the Murano. The Maxima is indeed larger than the G35, as the G35 is slightly smaller overall than the Altima.
  • zman3zman3 Posts: 857
    Thanks, I was not aware of that. I didn't realize that the Altima and Maxima share a platform. I have always equated platform with size. Apparently not, unless the Maxima and the Altima are now the same size, which would surprise me.

    I will actually cross shop the G35x with the 2005 H6 Outback. I am most concerned about having AWD and a 6 cylinder engine. Size, sedan, wagon, etc are less important to me as long as it is bigger than an Impreza and smaller than a SUV/crossover.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The A6 is a lot bigger IMO, in fact the current Passat is a little bit bigger than the new Legacy, at least in the rear seat. Probably in width too.

    Even the Passat is priced too high, sales are down, waaaaay down this year. VW moved upscale, does Subaru want to do the same?

  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    IMHO 28-32K max is probably the full MSRP on a full boat loaded GT wagon or sedan or Outback H6 VDC. Thats alot but it's for the top of the line. There are other options for the NA H4 which should be sportier as it has shed 200 LBS @168HP.

    redkey1 - A friend has the TSX and I like it alot it's sporty for sure, but it won't have the sporting capability of a turbo GT Legacy.

    kevin111 - The TL is a awesome car with great features. This will be a tough cross shop for the Legacy.

    Zoomer - 30-35K for a Subaru top of the line and 22-25K for a midlevel Toyota, Honda, Mazda, etc. It depends on what you want. Those base level cars will always outsell the niche Subaru. 30-35K is also guessed at MSRP for a top of the line model.

    ateixeria - A fully loaded Passat is still priced higher than a comparable Subaru. Knock on wood, but I don't think the Legacy will suffer the Passats reliability woes.

    Although Subaru is not quite a "Premium" or "Prestige" brand, most people that shop Subaru are cross shopping with the premium Euro/Japanese brands, not Kia's or Hyundais or Chevy's or Ford cars. Subaru realized this and thus the push for the upgraded interior and features. Im not saying the new Legacy won't be a tough sell at the higher price, but the upgrades might be worth the premium.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Ottawa CanadaPosts: 2,970
    Pricing, see my post over in future models, the information there is what I got from the sales manager at my dealership this morning.

      Cheers Pat.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Legacy GT will be quicker but the TSX is lighter. The wheelbases are nearly identical. The TSX and the Mazda6 will be close competitors.

  • zoomer1zoomer1 Posts: 42
    "the Passat is priced too high, sales are down, waaaaay down this year. VW moved upscale, does Subaru want to do the same?...

    Very good point since the Passat offers AWD. Not only that it has the auto/stick trans...and vehicle stability control...they added 4 yrs B-T-B warranty. The 2004 Passat's external and internal size will be bigger than the 2005 Legacy. Can you imagine what the 2006 Passat would do to a 2004 Subaru IF VW holds the price line. Yikes. I would suggest that you let SOA know that we the consumers are Subaru fans but not at any cost.
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    around a $25K for an '04 base GT, expect the Turbo '05 GT to anywhere from $26.4K - $27.8K for the Premium, loaded. Sounds reasonably priced to me.

    hondafriek "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" Mar 4, 2004 12:59pm!keywords=
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