Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

ntk1

That was an interesting statement from the rep. I have not seen any performance data on the auto FXT but the difference in performance on the WRX is about 0.8 seconds slower on the 0-60 time for the Auto. I am hoping the Leg GT Manual comes in at 5.5 or better which would suggest a low 6's for the Auto.
Most of the dealers I spoke to (in Mass) were also tight lipped but when I offered to cement a deal on the basis of $x or x% over invoice, all but one dealer was interested. The best figures I have are $500 over and 2% over. Now I just have to decide the color, leaning towards the silver but might be interested in the light blue depending on what it looks like in the flesh. (if it is anything like the light blue that Honda has for the pilot then it will definately be silver - that sort of color should be strictly reserved for clothes and toys given to new baby boys)

mfh

Currently I drive a 2002 H6 3.0 and it seems to have nearly as good acceleration from slow speeds. I have been happy with OB. One reason I may not have noticed a bigger difference is I might not have felt comfortable really testing the forester XT acceleration on the crowded freeways here with salesrep. Anyway, I just didnt get that visceral feeling with FXT people have been talking about. (I did get it with FX35 but that is a whole different ball of wax). My problem with the h6 30.0 ( as mentioned before) is the delay when accelerating at 50-60.

I dont know that the rep said the auto was much slower, but he said that you could feel the difference.

gearhead4

My recent purchase of a 2003 Legacy L/SE wagon was the first time, and the last time, I choose an automatic when there was a manual available. This car is a real slug compared to the 2000 Legacy 5 speed that I traded in. The 5 speed was much more peppy and got better MPG, too.

Neither of these cars had a turbo, but the last two turbo cars I drove had manual transmissions and were alot of fun to drive. The turbo reduces the need to downshift because, as long as you have 1500 RPMs, the turbo will spin up and deliver enough torque to accelerate in high gear. If you do downshift, make sure you have plenty of road ahead, because you start covering ground very fast.

If the family can't handle the manual, buy them their own car with a slushbox (Auto trans).

gearhead4

babaoriley

mfh lives in the SF Bay Area, like myself, and for me, I chose an auto because you never know when you may get stuck in an hour or two of bumper-to-bumper traffic. After a long day (or weekend), on and off the clutch in first gear gets real tiresome after an hour or so.

That's why I'm hoping the new 5-speed AT will have much better response and gearing than my 4 EAT. Now I have to figure, GT or XT? I like the GT for lower CG, but have used my 2000 OB's clearance numerous times (although not as many as I envisioned when purchased!). Guess I'll have to wait for test drives.

-Brett

PS. I have a MG Midget when I want to grind some gears and toss a car around.

subewannabe

The FXT- AT acceleration from 35 to 75 is quick and smooth as silk...you wont believe how fast you are going when you look at the speedo. For 95% of drivers, the choice between MT and AT can be purely one of personal preference..the performance difference will not be a factor at all in daily driving, unless you happen to be a race car driver.
Mark

bat1161

This may sound like a silly question, but won't the sport shift play a factor in the decision between MT & AT? Depending on how it responds, it may be the best of both worlds.

Mark

salbaby1972

Let's hope that the Subaru Sport Shift is better than our 2001 Audi Allroad's. There was about a second (at least it felt like a long time) lag between shift input and actual gear change.

mfh

Thanks for the input.... May need to re-testdrive the FXT. What dou think I ought to look for in a test drive to compare the OB with FXT?

stickguy

I don't think the sportshift ATs are really able (nor are they intended to ) replicate the shift speed of a MT. What they do offer is better control of when to upshift/downshift, and especially when to hold a gear (for cornering, steep hills, etc.).

I just test drove a Toyota with one the other day, and it was OK. Slight lag, but not too bad, and it did what it was supposed to. I doubt I would use it much, except to relieve my guilt pangs about going over to the dark side (a 2 pedal car).

ateixeira

Jim: we should trade cars. My wife's now thinking that with 2 kids an auto would be convenient. We have a 2002 L with a 5 speed.

Would that be funny or what? What miles and color are yours?

-juice

k9noles

Ntk1,
Sounds like a good deal. Just talked to a dealer here in CO and was offered 5% over invoice for '05 Legacy GT Limited 5-speed...BTW, anyone know what invoice is on this model, anyway? Thanks...

bigelm

No invoice prices yet...

magoon

Invoice prices are available. Check out these links:

Legacy http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2005.html#price
Outback http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2005.html

k9noles

Thanks magoon...Information exchange is a beautiful thing...

snowbird

I am new to this forum, so my question may seem silly.
What are the practical differences between a Legacy turbo wagon and a H6 Outback wagon? We live in Canada but drive to Florida every winter. So comfort on long journeys is important. Hardly any "off-roading" driving. So which is more suitable for us (my wife has a BMW convertible which has great pick up but too stiff a ride on long trips and too little cargo space. Any advice, anyone.?Thanks. JPWL

rsholland

The Legacy turbo will out handle the Outback XT. The center of gravity is lower, plus it has sportier, lower profile tires. It may even be a tad quicker, due to gearing/tire differences. I'd bet the Legacy GT will match your BMW, if not better it on a windy road.

The Outback XT comes standard with roof rack cross rails, rubber bed tray, and rear bumper step pad (really useful if you have dog) and is a bit more heavy duty, for rough road driving.

Bob

bigelm

Cool, thanks.

They must've just recently added it :-)

snowbird

Thanks, Bob, for your quick response. Your info is very helpful. I think I am now leaning towards the Legacy turbo. Tested the Forester XT recently. Impressed with its acceleration, but not its interior finish. Hope the 05 Legacy interior is better. Has anyone been inside one? Is it as good as, say, a Passat? jpwl

alpha01

Its a very different cockpit than a Passat, its somewhat hard to make a qualitative judgement as to which one is better. The Legacy GT is far sportier, with heavy use of faux aluminum trim. The steering wheel is nicely designed, thick, and leather wrapped in GTs and 2.5i Limited- an upscale touch. Instrumentation is very sharp, and all materials overall have a high quality feel. However, the Passats enviornment is much more toward the luxury end, with usage of wood-like trim and chrome.

Its just different, you should really get a feel for it yourself. The new Legacy interior is heads and tails better than either the outgoing model or any Forester I've been in.

One thing I will say about the new Legacys is that color choices are terrible. If you want a 2.5 (i or Limited), you get 5 exterior color choices, a mandatory grey interior (fabric in 2.5i) or mandatory charcoal (leather in 2.5i Limited). At most, in the GT Limited, you can have 6 exterior colors and two interior choices. Thats pretty pathetic, especially given the financial and production resources of FHI. Other sedans in this segment offer up to 10 exterior choices and 3 or 4 interior combinations.

~alpha

rsholland

You're more than welcome.

Juice and I will be spending the day of May 17th driving all these new Legacys and Outbacks in Las Vegas, courtesy of SOA. Talk to us after we get back and we'll be able to give you firsthand driving impressions.

Bob

trueawd

There is a mistake on the invoice pricing on the cars101.com.

I see on this sight it shows the Legacy GT turbo limited 5AI / 5AJ invoice as $27,587 when actually I askd my sales manager friend and she said it was $27,857. Just a twist of numbers. She told me not to let any invoice prices go, but when I told her it showed less then it should. She told me to make it right here. Not a huge difference but can someone tell them it's still $270 dollars....

Thanks,

True

trueawd

I just emailed him....Just don't want people to think it's less then it is...even just a little.

snowbird

This is a great forum. I get more detailed and up-to-date info here than from my local dealer. Keep up the good work! Can't wait till Bob and Juice come back with their test drive impressions. jpwl.

trueawd

The price has been changed....

ateixeira

alpha: keep in mind the Outback outsells the Legacy 3 to 1, so SoA gave that model a lot more color choices.

I think it gets all the Legacy colors plus several others, two-tone or monotone, etc.

-juice

Kirstie_H

Glad you found us! If there's a test drive to be had, Bob & Juice will be first in line

k9noles

Hey gang-just ordered an '05 Legacy GT Limited 5M for my wife...Got it for 3% over invoice here in Boulder, CO. How does that compare, anyone? Also, been getting VERY mixed info from dealers all over CO regarding options, pkg. pricing and delivery dates...Thanks for the invoice pricing. Several dealers asked me where I got it and then confirmed that, yes, (grudgingly, I suspect) that was invoice...The net strikes again!!!

jb_shin

What was the site where one can register and receive factory invoice price upon purchase?
Thanks

subewannabe

I commend you on boldly going where none of us have gone...yet!
Did you order a sedan or wagon. I'm also lookoimg at a Legacy GT LTD wagon w/ MT , but also hold open a door for the OB XT LTD and like the Forester XT, which will be available with the 5MT in the Premium Package for 05, so I'm staying on the Fence until I get some feedback here and some test drive reports.

mark

goneskiian

jb,
There are a number of organizations that have arrangements with Subaru to give their members invoice pricing. The salesman in Seattle that runs the www.cars101.com site has a list of these organizations on said site. Check there.

FWIW, I don't know of any website you can register on to get invoice pricing. AFAIK you've got to be a member of one of these organizations for at least six months to take advantage of their Subaru VIP partners programs (at least that's what it is for the IMBA).

Cheers!
-Ian

goneskiian

I've pretty much got one on order. I'm still undecided on which transmission I'm going to go for (I'd say leaning 90% toward the 5MT), but I've got my IMBA VIP Partners letter and I've talked to my local salesman. He's going to let me know as soon as he gets his first shipment in the 2nd or 3rd week of May. He says he's getting a Silver 5EAT GT Limited Wagon and a Black one with the 5MT. I'll test drive both before deciding. ;-)

-Ian

mylegacy

To the people that has driven the 05 legacy,
Is the car pretty quiet or is it noisy(rattlely) like a WRX?

legacy191

My wife an I put an order in in March for an 05' GT Wagon. The dealer in Minnesota is saying the price with the 5EAT and leather is going to be right around $28200. That price is not firm as of this writing. This dealer is suppose to get a Black 5EAT in on the 21st of May. More results as they come in

snowbird

Does anyone out there know where I can get invoice prices on the Canadian models that are now arriving? Thanks a bunch? jpwl

alpha01

This probably isnt the best place to call a WRX "rattley". The 2.5L is Subaru's flat four, which has been around for awhile but currently refined, and very low emissions. Some of the members here, rsholland and juice, will be testing the new Legacys and Outbacks in mid-may, and I'm sure they will be happy to give feedback then. The Legacy has not been released yet, and so, nobody has driven this iteration of the 2.5L, though I cant imagine its going to be dramatically different than the current.

Juice- Point taken about Outback sales and Legacy sales. But so what? The two are produced in the same mfr plant, right? Five colors for some models of the Legacy is BAAAD... Honda offers the same number of colors for a $13,000 Civic DX. Not everyone who likes color also wants the jacked up OBs, as neat as they are....

~alpha

radian

I drove a 2004 WRX for a month last year and it was far from rattley in my opinion. If you mean rattles on the interior, there were none that I remember (whereas my 2002 OBS had a few small rattles in the back wagon area). If you mean the engine, it had a cool rumble/gurgle.

In Australian reviews of their 2.0L Liberty (Legacy) GT, they said the engine note had actually changed considerably from the WRX. Much quieter due to the different exhaust. The Legacy also has a much lower Cd, which means less wind noise as well.

In the end, you'll have to drive one for yourself to see if it feels "rattley" to you. I suspect that it's much quieter overall than the WRX.

mylegacy

The dealer told me straight up that they got the most complain about the WRX(sti?) was noisy engine and the spoiler was making rattling noise. I asked because the Legacy is too much like the WRX(engine,hp, weight..) except in luxury.

alpha01 -(To the people that has driven the 05 legacy)
was refer to people in Japan,Australia n Europe.
not in North & South America.

subewannabe

My wife says no Legacy GT for me...she has run into and/or onto so many curbs and small snow banks with the long,low overhanging front end of her A6 Quattro that she has prohibited the purchase of any more AWD vehicles without good ground clearance and approach angles . That narrows my list to the Forester XT and Outback XT. Woe is me ;-).

Mark

subewannabe

Does anybody know whether the interior scheme of the OB XT will follow the other Outbacks, i.e., plood trim on a beige background, or the Legacy GT scheme, i.e. faux aluminum ( pluminum?) trim on a dark gray background? The "tour" on the need-desire site shows the electroluminescent gauges from the XT, but the vehicle shown is a LLBean..so I am suspect of the interior shown as having little predictive value as far as the XT interior. The photos of the European release on subdriven.com show both interior schemes, but Europe didnt get the turbo Outback...so thats no help, either. So, anybody who saw the OB XT at New York or Philadelphia, which is it?
    I have always avoided black cars but I may have to go with the Obsidian Black Pearl because our black labrador's official AKC name is "Obsequious Obsidian Mango",a/k/a OB OB Mango . Besides, my car is in a garage at work and at home. If I went with black exterior , I'd really prefer the taupe leather in the LTD trim, but I think that would look really odd if the OBXT gets the charcoal/plunimum interior scheme.

At least the Forester XT only comes with one interior color .. in 04. Just wait...I bet SoA gives me choices there, too, in 05!

Mark

kenoka

There is another answer to your dilemma: ban her from your GT for having hit so many curbs with your A6. ; )

hondafriek

Ther you go that's the answer, then you wake up with the divorce papers in your hand:-)

  Cheers Pat/

dcm61

Looking at the picture that Brian (subearu) took at the Chicago Auto show, it looks like it gets the pluminum.



DaveM

subewannabe

yup...that definitely looks like pluminum, complete with matching gray plood shifter knob. Ack! That settles it: Mazda MPV for her and
I'll drive the A6 for a while, until the Spec B/STi Legacy wagon comes ashore ;-)
Mark

subearu

The Outback 2.5i has plood, at least from this pic:



More Chicago pics (Subaru ones) here: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287729491

-Brian

subearu

plood too:



That's from the Milwaukee show: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287634669

-Brian

mfh

You guys are providing great info! I really appreciate the effort people put into this board.

At this exact moment (it could change in the next one), I think I may go with a 2004 H6 3.0 VDC for its value- I calculate about 3500 greenbacks less. Im not a performance hound (only on occasion!), so I may not need those extra ponies.
If Im behind someone a little slow on the mountain road, i dont know that the 2005 OB is going to make the experience any different.

thanks again!

dudleyr

So who stole the shift knob from the car in post 1158?

subearu

Unfortunately, it is likely not stolen, just removed by Subaru prior to the start of the show (when the public is allowed in). That way there isn't anything to steal :-)

Other manufacturers do the same.

-Brian

ateixeira

I may be old school but I prefer the plood over the pluminum. It warms up the dash a little.

Or just use matte black trim, we all know it's plastic any way.

Very common, actually industry standard, to remove shift knobs for car shows. People will steal anything that comes unscrewed.

-juice

mfh

Icant tell from the photos; what is plood vs pluminum?