Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

rsorganize

How far are you from Brattleboro, VT? They have several XT Ltds. (including manual, I think) and a VDC. Got mine there for invoice+300...and a very fair trade-in deal. Good luck.

Peace.

rob_m

Did you check in Hudson?

vetmats

I think that the blind spot in my '03 Outback is more of a problem than in other smaller sedans. So, I added on some of those circle blindspot mirrors. They work great! No more twisting my neck around trying to see if there's a car in my blindspot.

kens

Craig,

I wondered about those stick-on wheel weights too. Are they common? Wouldn't a shop simply remove the weights and then let the computer tell them where to reapply?

I'm contemplating taking my LGT in to an alignment specialty shop in my area. I'll probably have the alignment and wheel balances checked. In my past experience, factory cars are sometimes a tad off.

Ken

kens

Aussie Outback,

"I thought modern cars could distribute torque to individual wheels if necessary"

With a non-AWD, non-LSD equipped car, all the differentials are open so torque follows the path of least resistance (ie. the wheel that's up in the air or on ice).

Even on a non-VDC Subaru, you need to have three wheels in slip situations to be stuck due to AWD (takes care of front to back torque) and a rear LSD (takes care of rear left/right torque).

But there are some corner cases in which even an AWD Subaru would get stuck since there is no way to fully lock the front and rear diffys. But in those cases, I believe you're probably doing some serious off-roading beyond what the Outback was designed for.

I would guess that a VDC vehicle would handle situations better due to it's ability to manage torque to a specific wheel. However, it would do that by braking other wheels and as seen with the Mercedes Benz ML series, it can hamper forward momentum.

Ken

mitt

Hi to the forum, new member here.

We drove 5 "sport utility/wagons" yesterday, and the '05 Outback was my favorite. We are coming from a Euro car (Renault Scenic) and want something with similar dimensions and driving dynamics. But, my wife has a stigma with driving a "wagon". How can I convince her it is a superior car to the Highlander? If the car was for me, I would buy it without reservation, but she is not on-board (yet).

Also, I found the passenger seat to have extreme lumbar support. Does anyone else feel this way? Do you get used to it after a while? I really wish it was adjustable - another example of bean-counters potentially loosing a sale due to saving a few bucks.

Thanks in advance,

mitt

timo1745

A huge 'thanks' to all the excellent info shared on this board (Juice et al...you know who you are). My fiancee & I drove an '05 Legacy GT Ltd last weekend. Man, now that's a driver's car. And this is coming from a long-time fanatic of older BMWs. Well balanced, excellent power, no noticeable turbo-lag w/ the MT and a nice broad power band. Decent room, nice fit and finish. The price I've been quoted for an in-stock GT Ltd was invoice + 2%, or invoice + 3% for a dealer locate...both of which I'm ok with given that I live in NJ.

The issue now is choosing whether to get the GT Ltd sedan, or the Outback XT Ltd which the fiancee fell in love with. The car we're replacing is my beloved, slightly-modified '91 535i 5-speed (my daily driver), so of course I'm leaning towards the GT Ltd sedan. Her 'argument' is that by getting the OB XT Ltd w/ MT, we'll have the same power, same basic 'goodies', but with more versatility and additional room for growth (I'm thinking this means we're either getting another huskey, or her biological clock is ticking--yikes!) over what the sedan would offer.

I'm torn--though it really is a 'win-win' situation. Price is not a viable argument in favor of the sedan (only about $1300 difference), and while I love the "go anywhere with gear" idea of an OB, we already have a 2001 Expedition, and I'm gonna' sorely miss the sportiness of my bimmer. Thoughts??

Tim G (excited about getting ANY '05 turbo-subie!)

c_hunter

Clearly, the Legacy GT Ltd wagon sounds like the perfect car to compromise on. The only major benefit to the Outback is the ground clearance but it doesn't sound critical in your case. With the GT wagon, you get all the goodness of the GT sedan and some extra cargo area for those huskies and/or sticky kids :-).

So if I were you, and I speak from experience here, suggest the GT Ltd wagon and I think you will both be happy. Actually, she's the only one that needs to be happy to make you both happy (experience again), but the GT Ltd wagon is basically a no lose option for you!

Craig

c_hunter

Mitt,

We looked at a Highlander back in 02. It was certainly a nice vehicle and very slick, but my wife correctly pegged it as a minivan with SUV pretenses. Honestly, the Highlander is so closely related to the Sienna it's not funny, and it drives like a minivan as well (compared to the Outback which drives like a car). So, what you should probably try to do is convince your wife that the Outback is more of a sport wagon and the Highlander is more of a minivan. That really differentiates the two, and it's accurate in my opinion. If she's turned off by the notion of a wagon, the notion of a minivan ought to really scare her! In addition, I think the Highlander is closer to the classic station wagons of yesteryear (to which everyone makes the "wagon" association) than the Outback -- in the sense of lumbering handling, driving dynamics, etc...

Also, the Outback is far more nimble and capable than the Highlander could ever be, both on-road and off-road. Personally, I see the Outback as a go anywhere foul weather sport wagon while the Highlander is a minivan trying to be an SUV. Unless you have lots of kids/passengers or want a larger vehicle, I can't see choosing a Highlander over an Outback at all.

Finally, keep in mind that every Outback is based on Subaru's highly optimized and time-tested symmetrical AWD system. The Highlander, like the Sienna, is based on the FWD Camry platform. Very different beasts.

By the way, after looking at the Highlander, my wife test drove a Subaru Forester XS and fell in love with it. It sort of looks like a 3/4 scale Highlander, but drives and handles more like a sports car compared to most SUVs.

Good luck!
Craig

tsy

I agree with Craig. Get the wagon. I would have if I needed the extra space. In fact, every once in a while I think I should've gotten the wagon anyway (usually when I'm at Costco). It drives just like the sedan, is nice looking (for a wagon) and will handle much better than the OB (much more like your bimmer) and you have an SUV for when you really need to go offroad.

Although, you really can't lose with either. ;-)
The OB is a great car too. It depends on how much you like twisties.

tom

timo1745

Yes--Craig's got the right idea; point out to your wife that the Audi Allroad (which most people agree is beautiful) has a twin-turbo 6-cylinder motor, producing 250 HP, and is clearly not a minivan or a "real" wagon--it's a sports car for people who have stuff. Now point out that the Outback XT or VDC is in the same class as the Allroad, but much lighter, more reliable/less expensive, and just as powerul. Not to mention, finding one with a 5-speed MT is MUCH easier.

Hope that helps a little ;o)
Tim

tsy

The Highlander is a Camry on stilts. Drives just like one too. It's a good car (SUV?) but nothing like anything European. Very domestic-like (reminds me of an old buick) not sporting, comfortable, quiet, smooth. Good attributes if that's what you really want. It's also quite expensive for what you get compared to the OB.

I never noticed the lumbar support in my GT LTD, although I never sit there. ;-). I think mine's adjustable, though. I'll check.

Good luck mitt

tom

cnote

I was looking at getting a 2005 Outback 2.5 XT Wagon and getting rid of my ML 430. What type of fuel would I need to use? Would I have to use premium gas 91 or can i use 89???

krzyss

but cannot buy premium fuel ?
What is wrong with this picture ?

I believe that any turbo/super charged engine requires premium fuel.

Krzys

kens

mitt,

Wagon-phobia and SUV-phillia are distinct US traits. Tell your wife that in Europe, Japan and Oceania, sport wagons strike the perfect balance between performance and practicality.

Also, if it's possible, park an 05 Outback side to side with a Highlander and compare the features. There's nothing that the Highlander has over the Outback for everyday needs *except* the Highlander is made to look like an SUV.

Better yet, let her drive one back-to-back and see how different the two can be.

Ken

kens

Tim G:

The Legacy GT Ltd Wagon has your name written all over it!!

Not only will it meet your wife's argument for the OBXT: "we'll have the same power, same basic 'goodies', but with more versatility and additional room for growth "

But it will also retain pretty much all the same handling characteristics you love about the LGT sedan.

The lucky few here who were able to attend Subaru's Ride and Drive in Vegas and take both the sedan and wagon on the track can attest that the two handle pretty much the same.

That's what I love about my LGT wagon. When I'm driving it on the twisties, I completely forget that I'm driving a mid-sized wagon. Yet the passenger and cargo room are there for family needs.

Ken

ash13

I may have missed this before but I was just going over the owner's manual for the Legacy GT and in it there is a part about MP3 capability for the stereo. Now did they just leave that in so that they did not need to make multiple books depending on the model you buy or does the stereo really play MP3 discs? Guess I will try it but that is really annoying if it is in the manual and there is no caveat about which model has the capability.

Anyone out there know?

c_hunter

Only in the LL Bean and VDC stereos, not the XT or GT. Look closer in the manual, they talk about three different stereo systems. I believe there is a way to ID each one based on the graphics.

Craig

c_hunter

Almost forgot -- there was an earlier question about passenger seat lumbar support. Only thing I was going to say is that the XT/GT has a lumbar adjuster for the passenger. Probably not in the base models though.

Craig

moutback

The former. The manual applies to Legacys and Outbacks, and it has instructions for 3 stereo systems--single CD, 6-CD non-MP3, and 6-CD w/MP3--depending on which model you own.

I was going to do the same--try to play CD-R/RWs with MP3. Let us know if you're successful.

Mark

pathtomax

I was considering the MT due to the fact that I really like the shifting of gears. I have a 4EAT and you are right, it is a dog and should have been a 5-speed!

I will probably decide between the VDC and the 5EAT XT when it all comes down to it. I have not had the chance to drive either one yet (just the GT was available).

c_hunter

Anybody else have a hair-trigger remote?? The buttons on the new remote design are large and not really recessed, so they are very easy to push accidentally. Sometimes I notice the car beeping and locking/unlocking the doors when I walk around with the remote in my pocket! I'm betting the remote battery won't last long like this.

Compared to the old style Subaru remote, this is a really dumb design. They should know better than to make such large buttons with such little protection. Clearly a case where somebody chose style without considering function....

Craig

rsholland

Just got the latest issue of Automobile magazine, and the feature story is "50 great '05 Cars." Was the Legacy or Outback mentioned? No. To make matters worse, some of the choices were just unbelievable...

I'm beginning to wonder if we will ever see a *real* road test on the new Legacy.

Bob

bookemdano

Mitt,

Did you try the Legacy GT wagon? The only thing it lacks versus the Outback is about 2 inches of ground clearance. But it's a lot more fun to drive and seems more stable to me.

I shifted my interest to the '05 Legacy from a '05 Outback XT because of the suspension. Overall I like driving the Legacy much better. That said, I much prefer the Outback looks. (Go figure.)

Regarding the lumbar support, I found that the OB has a lumbar support that is very odd. There seems to be a ridge about half way down the seat that bothered me when I drove the Outback XT. What is very odd is that, even though the Legacy GT is supposed to have the same seat at the OB XT, I found the GT seat to be much more comfortable.

Here's a pic showing the problem I found with the OB:

http://www.pbase.com/image/29225236/original.jpg

Good luck with your decision.

Regards,

Dan.

bookemdano

Bob,

I've lost complete faith in the car mags. In the last year, I've seen some writeup of the high-end stuff like Porche, BMW and MB in EVERY issue. Those clowns are so biased it makes me sick.

They are nothing than advertising media for the highest paying car company. (I mean advertising in their articles, NOT their ads).

Regards,

Dan.

rsq798

I've never used the circle mirrors so I can't speak to them, but all this talk about not looking over your shoulders makes me more than a little bit nervous. I know people who say that adjusting your mirror is enough, but here are two situations where it may not be:

1) On a three-lane highway, Car A switches from the left lane to the middle. Slightly further back but within an overlapping car length, Car B simultaneously switches from the right lane to the middle. Living and driving in MA, I see this all the time on my commute. As Car B, I've been almost taken out by Car A on numerous occassions, never even knowing I was there. As Car A, I've always seen Car B and been able to abort the maneuver and move back into my lane.

2) A motorcycle is in the car's blindspot. A properly angled mirror may be enough to catch a vehicle as wide and as long as a car, but what about a motorcycle? Having owned a motorcycle, I can distinctly recall the time when I was almost taken out by a red Ford Escort wagon (not a large vehicle by any stretch of the imagination) when I was doing nothing more reckless than passing him by no more than 5 mph. Never even turned his head. It was a good thing I was paying more attention to him than he was to his blind spot. Happens more often than you think, although I'll admit that some riders are totally out of control.

Not that this has much to do about 2005 Subies, per se, but this is a drivers' forum and I think that the recent highlight on safety should make us think of how dangerous we can be with our vehicles as well as others in theirs...

safetyfirst

Mine is exactly the same way. It is a really sucky feature of the car. It's hard to believe they'd design a remote so badly.

rifleman

Really need a car NOW--have been researching for 6 months and almost talked myself into the GT wagon non Lmt, but there aren't any listed on any of the NJ dealer inventory web-sites. Drove the base wagon (underwhelmed) and the GT sedan (loved that feeling)but will not purchase or order a specific version of a car I cannot drive. Between the unavailability of this car, and no particular clue from the dealers (they seem to know as little as we do)and the dis-appointing side impact scores, I'm ready to go with my alternative choice---the TSX. Will lose the wagon and AWD but will pick up an all-round higher level of luxury and save a couple thousand too.Would really prefer to drive them back to back couple days and decide but am in a spot where I simply can't wait much longer to purchase.

ryanl1

I almost got a heart attack when a pickup almost sideswiped my one week old GT when I was in his blindspot.I pulled up to him and he looks over at me with a cell phone stuck to his ear while I'm scolding him.
Anyone leaning a steering wheel club against the pillar be warned ..it marks easily.

moutback

Ditto here. This is a SECURITY PROBLEM. I have to make sure I hold the remote and not unintentionally press the unlock button until I'm out of the remote's range when I walk away from the car. I haven't read the manual to see if the locks will automatically engage after some time passes after the unlock button is pressed, but the sensitivity of the buttons is ridiculous.

By the way, what's up with the owner's manual for 05 Legacy/Outback on mysubaru.com? It's not the complete manual, but only selected pages. This is WEAK.

Mark

mogt

After the break in period on my 05 legacy LGT
 I went on a long trip for a week and had 5EAT
 on the sportmode ,I averaged over 25mpg in essentially highway driving.I am 6ft 5 inches
 tall,the car was very comfortable on long drives.
 The car is very stable at high speeds and the
 sportmode helps one accelerate very quickly.The
 trip covered approximately 1600 miles.
 Mohan

kmclean

Greetings all,

For those of you back East, it may seem strange to hear that Seattle had its first real rain yesterday since mid-June. Now the grass will start growing again!

I've used the little stick-on (round) convex mirrors for years. When I bought my Dodge Caravan in 1989 (it had a HUGE B-pillar) I had a couple of near misses early on (especially on multi-lane expressways). Even looking over my left shoulder didn't clear effectively.

So I stopped by my local auto parts store, and bought one of the smaller (1-1/2"?) convex mirrors. I love 'em!

There is a certain learning curve with the mirror, and you need to consider where on the basic mirror you want to install it (noting which areas of the main mirror you use/don't use can determine that), but once you have it down, you'll love it (and you can always pop it off if you change your mind).

The mirrors aren't great a night (headlights approaching from the rear are a bit too non-standard in suggesting vechicle proximity), and in a driving rain they can get "washed out." But it worked so well on my minivan that I've put them on all my cars - including my OB.

I like the coverage the mirror provides, and I like NOT having to turn around to the left to clear (in almost all situations), thereby avoiding taking my eyes off the road in front if me.

It's worth a try - I'd bet 90% will like it!

Ken in (about to be sunny again) Seattle

dave5

Have been shopping wheel/snowtires. I had a configuration at TireRack but when I went back to select a different wheel it gave me a message "Not accepting online orders for 2005 Legacy GT due to unique technical aspects of this application." I called Conner. He says he has no idea why the website gave that message but was ready to enter an order for ASA JS1 wheels with Bridgestone Blizzaks for about $1000 delivered (to Cincinnati). Am reluctant to order since the website implies their are problems. Does anybody have any idea what is going on here?

expy02

The model number on the radio is the same for the LL Bean and GT LTD. I was looking to adapt the steering wheel audio controls on the GT LTD that I have ordered. I believe the wiring harness is the same for all the cars.

kens

Bob,

Just got my issue in the mail and was very disappointed to see nary a mention of Subaru in the 50 great '05 cars. The Suzuki Forenza made it, for crying out loud!

I also received R&T -- no mention of anything there too. I'm going to bet C&D has nothing either.

At this point, I'm seriously doubting any real road test on the new Legacy. It's been months since the intro and...nada. Either the car mags are boycotting Subaru or the outbound marketing folks at SOA didn't do a very good job.

Ken

kens

Craig,

I haven't had a problem with the keyfob. Maybe you have one with overly sensitive buttons? Did you try the other one?

Ken

raydahs

Here's some respect http://motortrend.com/roadtests/wagon/112_0408_subaru/

c_hunter

Well, nothing in this month's Car&Driver except a really lame comparison of Detroit V8 sedans: Chrysler 300C, Ford Crown Vic, and Pontiac Bonnevile. Of course the 300C won. What's next -- 300C takes on a box of donuts and wins? I could care less about the Crown Vic and Bonneville like probably 99% of C&D readers. I think I am going to write them a letter on that one and probably grouse about the lack of Legacy GT coverage at the same time.

I did think the 300C was a pretty nice car (not for me, but in general) but the styling is getting old really quick. In fact, I saw one at Lowe's this morning and it was dirty. Man, that is one ugly car when it's dirty. Looks like a chop-top that someone rescued from a junk yard!

Glad to know other people notice the problem with the remotes. Ken, both of mine are like that. There is actually sufficient resistance on the buttons for the proper tactile feel, but they are so large and exposed they can't help but getting pushed by the slightest pressure. I have not accidentally hit the trunk or panic buttons once, which are small and kind of recessed. The door lock/unlock ones, however, are like game-show buzzers....

Craig

newsubielegacy

I just placed my order for an '05 Legacy GT Limited 5EAT Sedan, auto-dim mirror, perimeter security, subwoofer, Regal Blue Pearl, Charcoal interior. It "should" be here in 4 to 6 weeks.

Not my first car by any means, but my first Subaru, first AWD and first turbo. I look forward to a drive in the Rockies when it gets here. I am replacing a '95 Maxima that was hammered by hail back in June. Too bad since it was a great car.

outbacker2k2

Craig,
I was over at the Legacy GT.com forums yesterday for my first, and probably last, day on Friday and I think I remember seeing a few posts about this.

I don't know if this is feasible or not for you, but I keep my key ring on a small wire-gate carabineer and clip ‘em to my belt. They’re firmly attached, but out of the pocket and that may help you…

expy02

The dealer by me has 2 sitting in his lot, both with the rear spoilers if you want to take a trip to Long Island. I'm paying $500 over invoice for my GT LTD 5EAT sedan, Atlantic Blue/taupe. It's due in any day. My dealer is telling me the "free" service program only comes with the 39 month balloon finance deal. Anybody else hear this?

c_hunter

Congratulations! SOunds like a good replacement for your Max.

Craig

samiam_68

Loman Subaru in Parsipanny has two GT wagons non LTD.

jim1969

Which dealer on Long Island are you dealing with? I bought mine last month from Metric in Huntington.

tds1

Have had my 2005 Subaru Legacy wagon for 1 month now and am very happy with it.
Is there any place online to purchase a Subaru Added Security Plan at a decent discount? Thanks for the info!

rifleman

Have you seen these cars in person? Because just checked their web inventory and listings are vague--do not specifically say GT Wagon. Some distance from me but appreciate your feedback. Am generally the type of guy if it isn't close and easy it doesn't happen. Btw, just read on another forum there is an excellent review of the GT in current Sports Car International mag---comes out 6X a year and supposedly a little more respected than run of the mill rags. Do not know if it's on view at B&N or Borders or available subscription only. Seems to be nothing on the Web.

kens

When I had brought my LGT wagon in for it's first oil change, I told the dealer to check on a wire harness that was peeking out of the right side of the center console.

I didn't realize that they had also rerouted the lines to my subwoofer so I can no longer see the blue wire. I tried looking under the seat to see how they did it but couldn't get a clear view. I'll have to open the center console one of these days to see how it was done.

Ken

kmartin

Seems to me there was an article in Drive magazine (Subaru's own pub) a few months ago describing how to safely set your outside mirrors. The gist of it was, set them a few degrees outward so that you can just barely NOT see the doors. This gives you a better glimpse into the "blind spot" areas. In other words, if you can see your doors or handles, you've got them turned IN too much.

Also, note that the BEST way to see that spot is to TURN your head around and look. Most safety info will include this sometimes overlooked piece of advice.

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

rsholland

Karen, there have been a lot of "ride" reports, but no official "road tests" in which the vehicle has been put through its paces using a stop watch. That's what I'm referring to. If there are any, I haven't seen them, at least from the US automotive press.

What I'm especially interested in seeing are comparison tests, where the new Legacy GT is pitted against the competition.

Bob

kmartin

My family and I took a 400+ mile trip this past week through the mountain highways of Central and Northern Arizona -- no backroads this time :-(

Both of my brothers took turns driving my OB, and both were equally impressed. Younger brother's wife has owns a '98 OB wagon which she is considering trading...he may make a case for her to seriously look at this model.

The car handled surprisingly well on the steep 4-5-6% grades, and they had a blast with the sport shift. They even had the owner's manual out when they could have been enjoying the scenery :-)

Since there were seven of us, we took two cars. I drove my parents' Park Ave, so it felt funny to see my '05 OB following us...still the only one I've seen so far!

BTW: the car got 26.4 mpg on the trip (4500 miles on the odo)...all highway/paved, but some of it quite steep and winding. That includes an elevation change of about 6300 feet.

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html