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Comments
On the way back to Boston, I got 25.2 mpg with a sailboard and rack on my roof, going around 65-70 mph with a half-hour of stop and go traffic through Concord.
Could I possibly impose on any of you, with a Gold Plus extended warranty, to mail or fax me a copy of the actual contract (showing the exact coverage details) please? I am planning on getting a 5yr/100K Gold Plus but (for unknown reasons) cannot get a hold of a contract to read before I buy. The dealer says that the contract comes in the mail after I purchase it... and instead he is showing me the glossy brochure Seems unreasonable but I'm not getting anywhere with him. I would simply like to see the exact terms and conditions. Is this such an outrageous request?
Thanks in advance
Avi
Have you tried inquiring with Subaru directly regarding the details of Gold Plus?
Ken
About the Gold Plus...If you are asking me then the answer is maybe. I talked with customer service at Subaru who said they would look into it and try to mail me something. I wanted it this week, before I actually sign, but I have doubts that I'll see it. I'll probably just have to go for it and hope for the best.
Avi (who is still unclear on how to quote from other posts in this web editor)
NCAP is done by NHTSA, and while it isn't as tough as IIHS' test, it is still a good indicator. Plus, even some Volvos don't earn quadruple 5 stars.
FINALLY a direct comparo in C&D. I hope they test manuals, not automatics. We'll see.
Ken: your Forester had 100k miles. Was the oil clear when it was new? Mine was. It's still not that bad now at 67k.
Avi: I don't think we even have a copy of the contract. If I had a problem I'd deal with 800-SUBARU3 or Patti directly anyway.
I can't read that stuff! ;-)
Tell them if they want to make a sale, you need a copy (even if it's someone else's), end of story.
-juice
BMW X5: 19/20
Escalade: 8/10
Escalade ESV: 7/10 (ouch! with SAB even)
SRX: 18/20
Escape: 18/20
Endeavor: 19/20
Grand Vitara: 18/20
4Runner: 18/20
RAV4: 18/20
VW Touareg: 18/20
So even at much higher price levels there are new designs that aren't rated as highly.
Oh, a few do match the 20/20 star rating...like the Subaru Forester.
-juice
For any others disapointed in their 5EAT, just hang with it, its responsiveness will improve with some seat time.
The 2 cars are totally different animals- so it's like comparing a good apple and a good orange- which one's better? Depends on your taste.
The RX-8 is more along the lines of a sports car with 2 extra half doors. It handles curves much better than the GT, although you really have to work the rotary engine. It's quite comfortable compared to cars like the 350Z or S2000, but still not as comfortable as the GT.
The GT will accelerate a little faster, has AWD- if you have to deal with snow, forget it with the RX-8. It's got much more passenger room (it's very uncomfortable in the back seat of the RX-8 unless you're below 5'4") and a much larger trunk (no spare tire in the RX-8- just a flat repair kit) It's quieter, less jarring on bumpy roads, insurance is probably less, gets better gas mileage, eats less oil (rotary engines gulp oil) and is probably safer in the event of an accident.
Just a quick answer. The RX-8 is a fun car, I'm glad my friend has one I can drive once in a while, but it didn't fit my needs.
But the GT is fun too! ;-)
tom
I'll be quiet now
Avi
Mazda has styling down pat, but I dunno, I generally shop for cars that are (relatively) fuel efficient and powerful, if it's down on both of those...
-juice
My dad went to renew and the price was identical to AAA, so I imagine the coverage is similar.
-juice
I suspect in my Forester's case I was getting some leaking from improper piston seating/sealing. I was consistently losing about 1 quart/2000 miles on it. The only thing I can point back to is the piston replacement. The dealer changed the pistons, but not the short block. In the long run, it probably led to a less than ideal seal although it did fix the slap.
bobbyknight:
That's exactly what I've been experiencing too. 5EAT does take time to "adapt" and it gets more responsive over time. In fact, at over 3K miles now, my wagon responds quite a bit differently to throttle inputs.
I think some of the mediocre reviews the GT w/auto have been the result of a "green" tranny.
Ken
Or you could cut to the chase and just put it in sport mode! From day one, sport mode has shifted exactly the way I want. I have not noticed any ill effects on gas mileage either (not outside the 1-2mpg that it varies tank to tank).
Craig
-Brett
Ken
Just completed a 450 mile round trip to the mountains (ok hills in Australia) to do some XC skiing, in my 3.0R Outback. 2 points of note:
1) On the way back, with cruise on for 150 miles at 70mph I scored 24.3mpg (best yet)
2) Driving up moderately steep, but very windy roads (signposted 15/20/25mph), it was a bit of a challenge keeping smooth, swift driving. Because the valve timing changes at about 3500rpm (at least I think that is what the noticeable change at that point is), smoothest driving occurs if you keep the revs between 3500 and the redline. If the car drops below 3500, then firstly you drop out of the tourque zone, and secondly, you keep bumping through the 3500 valve timing change (which is so noticeable it is almost like a turbo coming on song).
I think we'd all agree that the H6 would be a better engine with more low-down tourque.
At least the roadholding and handling were excellent - I still can't believe how good the body control is in corners.
-Aussie Outback
PS - the snow on the trails was good, but it was sunny and warm, with no snow on the road! Not fair...
I know the GT is "sport tuned" but I'm curious to know exactly what that means.
-juice
Ken
Been great reading all the reviews and comments ... got a pressing question:
I'm picking up my new gold OBXTL 5m this evening ... the short-throw shifter is in my contract and to be installed by the dealer as soon as the part arrives [wouldn't hold their GREAT offer on my '03 Baja for the 60 days to order] ...
I'd like to know how much I should expect from this option and whether anyone has concerns about the dealer installing it as opposed to the factory [I have the option to cancel it].
Thanks.
I like the short shifter, but then again, it's not like I didn't like the standard shifter. If you really like stirring the gears, it's fun. If it's not a big deal, than the standard shifter is fine too.
Congratulations on a great ride- I'm glad there are some other 5MTs out there!
tom
Ken
-juice
I will be taking delivery of my OBXT (Ltd 5MT) tomorrow night. Any advice on what to check when taking delivery? I have limited experience buying new cars. The dealer should be installing the amp/sub.
Avi
Take delivery in the day time. Walk around the vehicle slowly, twice, looking for any flaws or damage.
Sit inside in each position. Fold the seats, check the roof rack (there should be a tool in the glove box). Take a tire gauge, they overlook that the most.
The tank should be completely full and it should be spotless inside and out.
Last but not least, I'm jealous. ;-)
-juice
Congrat's Avi. Don't forget to keep the revs below 4000 for the first 1000 miles (good luck!!! I wasn't able to do it!)
tom
Before you sign any papers, take ALL the time you need to convince yourself that the vehicle is in 100% perfect condition. A proper dealership will let you do a full inspection before accepting delivery.
Like juice wrote, walk around the vehicle. Sit in it, check the operation of all the controls. Open and close all the doors and storage compartments. Make sure everything closes and fits properly. Some people have reported that the glove compartment didn't close properly.
Check the exterior for a flawless finish. Check to see that all the body panels are flush and the gaps are consistent. I had one minor problem with my driver's door and the front bumper clip being lose. Some others have seen the rear spoiler being slightly out of alignment.
Take it for a test drive. Make sure everything works flawlessly. Listen to the vehicle with the stereo off. If you can, take it to highway speeds to make sure the vehicle tracks straight and is tight as a drum.
Note anything you find that concerns you and point them out to the dealer. Have all the concerns addressed before you finalize the papers -- it's their property until you take that final step. If everything is not up to your expectations, don't forget that you can always walk away.
Taking delivery is a huge rush of excitement so it's easy to overlook things. What really helps is to have a second pair of eyes on that big day.
Oh, and the most important thing is to savor the moment. It's not often you get to drive away with a brand new vehicle. I took a good 2 hours before taking delivery of my Legacy GT wagon.
Ken
-juice
Just corporate speak? A reference to improved interiors?
Higher prices?
Just took delivery of an 05 GT 5MT with the short throw kit last week. can't say enough good things about this car! I was wondering, in terms of aftermarket goodies, has anyone had experience with 1) Mud flaps? Must have, should have? Recommendations? 2) 3M paint protection plastic coating for hood, bumper, lights, etc.? Any comments on protecting this fantastic car? Mine's atlantic blue with taupe.
Good advice about checking out your vehicle before driving off the lot. I third the advice about having a second set of eyes around. I plan on bringing a lawyer buddy with 20/10 vision. What a combination!
-B
Since the test reflects a crash between two similar vehicles, make sure you compare vehicles from the same weight class, plus or minus 250 lbs., when looking at frontal crash star ratings.
The Touareg may have been 4+4 on the front test, but at 5,143 lbs vs. the Outback's 3,470 lbs, you'd probably have to adjust the math to give the Outback something like 3+3 stars to make them truly comparable. Don't know the exact number, but the Subie won't hit a 5,143 lb vehicle head-on and still score 5+5.
The 20/20 comparison is valid to other vehicle's in the Outback's weight class, however.
Picked up the OBXTL last eve and can't say how much I like it as a first date, hope I'm still in love in a year or two.
As one of the original Audi quattro freaks - an '87 4000, a '93 90 and a '95 90 [along with a Saab 900 Turbo that got totalled and the '03 Baja I never bonded with] - I can say with complete conviction that this car [again, first date] gives precisly the same feel as the Audis in its blend of solid quality, luxury, sportiness and handling ... and, needless to say, it's much more powerful than those quattro v5s, the '95 six or the Saab T.
Love the ride and have been really impressed with the lack of wind rush with the moonroof fully open at highway speeds. Much more like the Audis [but twice the size] and a huge, huge improvement over the Baja in which I couldn't hear a thing but wind over 35-40.
My wife is ecstatic, she called the Baja [no offense, Baja lovers] the Mullet-Mobile ... "business in the front, party in the back." I liked the Baja's utility - and perhaps I'd have liked the turbo considerably more - but the '05 OB is just a wholly different level of automobile in every sense.
MY OBXTL is gold with charcoal interior ... took the short throw, the auto-dimming mirror, the subwoofer, perimeter security and wheel locks [city dweller] ... the stereo's great, chest-throbbing at volume.
After testing more Audis [used and new, from the 1.8T to the 4.2 6 and a couple of used, low-mile S4s], the Volvo S40 & V50T and XC, the Saabaru 9-2X and the BMW 3, my only decision was between the exhiliration of the S4 and the unique blend offered by the OB. Never knowing, but assuming, how hard someone drove the S4s and getting the utility of the OB made the final choice pretty easy.
Now, if I can just restrain myself for a few weeks 'til I can really put her through the paces ...
William: true, the scores are relative, but Touareg competes in its class and has to stand up to tougher competition.
I'm not sure I'd want a used S4, those are driven hard, and once the warranty is up parts surely cost a fortune.
-juice
A couple observations:
1) Am I the only one who finds the wind noise from the sunroof almost unmanageable? I love the big roof, and though I've yet to experience any wind buffeting (you know, that cavitating pressure from a sunroof), there is so much wind noise from the front section of the sunroof, I almost can't leave it open at all, 'cept on back roads. When closed, it's perfectly air-tight, making me think it can't be an issue of misalignment. Thoughts?
2) I think I need slightly more stereo bass; any feedback on price or difficulty of self-installing the OEM subwoofer?
3) I'm also wavering on the 5 yr/100k Mile "Gold" Warranty; I'll be paying on this thing for 4-5 years, and don't want to risk the possibility of making both a car payment AND a repair payment. The ballpark prices I've been given are in the range of 1400-1600 without haggling, but I'm not satisfied with those prices, though they do include my regularly scheduled maintenance for the first 3 years. Anyone already bought this?
Absolutely love by OB though...what a fantastic car, and the tires seem to be just fine (haven't tried them in the rain yet).
Rgds,
Tim G
'05 OBXTL-5MT
The hood looks great still, although there are 2 rock chips that managed to penetrate the film, but the lower part of the front bumper is looking pretty haggard after only one winter. It's been noticably roughed up from all the rocks (they say they "sand" the roads, but it's more like throwing rocks all over). The car undoubetly looks better than it otherwise would had I left it unprotected, but it's not perfect and it is very expensive.
You could save hundreds of dollars if you installed it yourself, but I wasn't willing to risk it since I have no experience with the film. I watched much of the install, and a professional took HOURS to get it on correctly; it took a fair amount of finesse that I'm not sure I could have replicated.
Would I do the 3M protection again? Yes, but only if I found it cheaper than last time.
Brian
I'm taking delivery tonight on the same car as yours. I'm also buying the 5/100 Gold Plus warranty with $0 deductible. I will be paying $1195 for the warranty and so you have a lot of room to work with when talking to the dealers. I didn't hear that this warranty covers regular maintenance for 3 years. Where did you see that?
Can't wait for my drive home tonight
Avi
You can buy Stoneguard kits in the $200-up price range, but it takes a fair amount of labor to install even a simple one. I am toying with getting just a hood piece for my OB XT -- it would protect the leading edge of the hood and 8-10" back. I had the hood deflector on my last Outback and it worked well, so that's my fallback choice.
Re: the subwoofer, I bought one and am going to install it one of these days. Someone on one of the other Legacy forums did the install and took pics. I'd love to post the link for you but Edmunds won't allow that. So see if Google can help you out...
Craig
If Subaru doesn't offer them now, I'm sure its more a matter of when than if.
Also wanted to note that the stereo sounds great. I can see no need for the sub.
Don't think I can post the link here though, so if anyone is interested in hosting the pictures and posting a link here, please let me know. I'll send you the link.
Jay
I took your advice and spent a while checking out the car. I test drove it and it seemed very solid. No rattles of any kind. I tested all the features and could not find a thing wrong with it. What a relief! I drove an hour and a half to pick it up and did not want to return empty handed.
The color is much better than expected. It seems to have a touch of green in it, which makes it blend with nature much nicer than I thought. The light taupe interior works beautifully with the solid exterior. For me it's a real treat to finally get rid of a black interior - way too hot in the summer.
The drive home was fantastic. I know, I know - it's the honeymoon thing...but still...The ride was fantastic - smooth, powerful, stable, un-truck-like! I was very impressed with the suspension. I like to feel the road (used to European cars) but I didn't want a harsh ride either. I thought the compromise here was very well engineered.
The shifting is smooth and has a good positive feel to it. I can confirm some of the other reports that there is a slight vibration that comes through the shifter but it may be normal. I have nothing to compare it to other than my 1996 Jetta GLX where the shifter feels very different (looser) and had practically no vibrations. As someone said, there could be different shifter designs and Subaru may be trading a cable system a more solid connection to the transmission. Anyway - for me it's not a problem - just an observation.
The radio sounded good but I think I need to work on adjusting the overall balance. The subwoofer sounds too loud. I've heard much better sound systems in cars before, and I wish this one was better but it's not bad at all. The limited upgrade capability is unfortunate but nothing is perfect in life. I may consider better speaker drivers in the future and I'd be interested in any reports of improvements with such an upgrade.
I started my drive at sunset and after a while I noticed that I could not see the radio controls very well. "Bummer", I though to myself. Why couldn't Subaru put lights on the radio controls? "Oh well....I'll learn to feel my way around the panel", I said to myself....About 10 minutes later I realzed that the road was not properly lit.... and so...I tuned on the HEADLIGHTS! WOW - the entire dashboard lit up like a 747 airliner cockpit with every radio control clearly illuminated. Big smile on my face!!
In the next few months I'll be shopping for roof-top racks for bikes and sea kayaks.
The real problem is of course....how do I keep the car under 4000 rpm for the next 1000 miles? It's hard - isn't it? This is where the honeymoon metaphor breaks....:)
I had a very good purchasing experience at Liberty Subaru in Oradell NJ. They were fair, honest, zero-pressure, courteous, and had every detail taken care of when I came up to pick up the car today. They had good prices as well. I have nothing but good words to say about them.
Avi
Craig
-juice