Well, obviously, for couples with a larger family or need for more room and who ARE prepared for a full size minivan for image or financial reasons.
You know, like the several hundreds of thousands of buyers who chose a DCX, Sienna, Odyssey, or Quest every year INSTEAD of an MPV because the current MPV is too small.
I think the real reason for the 5 is to avoid the image of being a minivan owner, which some people just can't swallow. Especially if the price of the 5 is about the same as a low-end minivan, why not get the minivan...image. That's why I bought the Freestyle because I'm a slave to the image too!
"But I think once you get in it you will find that the second row of seats supplies minimal leg and foot room and the third row is miniscule. The second row passengers don't even have anywhere to put their feet. There is no space under the front seats to slide your feet in. You'll see what I mean in the pictures."
Forget pictures, have you actually SAT in it? I have. I'm a 6 foot, 250 pound guy. The second row passengers have plenty of room for my boat-anchor size 12 feet behind and beneath the front seats...even with the front seats also set up for my 6 foot frame. It's quite roomy for such a small vehicle.
I'll agree on the third row...that's basically a kiddie-row only. What you might be forgetting is that, in most 3 row vehicles short of full-size mini/vans and Suburbans/Excursions, the 3rd row is usually kiddie-room only. That's just normal.
Also keep in mind that this is not a $21k+ minivan. it's an $18k microvan. Some people can't hack the extra 3 grand to get a full size minivan new. The ONLY other minivan starting down at $18k is the piece of junk Dodge Caravan. And they charge for emissions compliance, and a rear defroster is "optional" instantly driving the base price here in NY to $19k. Even the Kia Sedona starts at $20k+.
The fact is, the Mazda5 is the ONLY game in town that can reasonably seat 6 and start at $18k. It's also the only game for $18k that can reasonably seat 4 adults COMFORTABLY (Except maybe an Accord DX with no A/C). That makes it unique in the market. Unless you want to sit with 3 other adults in that Accord DX. In which case I highly recommend you keep the windows all the way down.
Nicely-equipped Grand Caravans (Stow-n-Go, power, ABS etc.) go for around $18k. And while they are not as smooth as the Ody and Sienna I disagree that they are "pieces of junk." And there are many options if you need room for four adults comfortably for $18k or less, including the Tucson and Sportage, Sonata, Malibu, Taurus, Optima, Altima 2.5S, and Camry. All have A/C. Some are really well equipped including side curtains, ABS/traction, VSC, and full power. But as previously stated, it is the only game in town that will seat six with good handling and a stick shift, starting at $18k (OK, $18.5k with destination charge.) Or for those who can't handle being seen in a minivan.
You can't post photos that are on your hard drive - no one else will be able to see them. They have to be hosted on a server.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I agree with having a split bench in the middle row like the freestyle. If two versions were offered (6 and 7 passenger) then the appeal would be increased.
In NJ, the new car Kelly Blue Book pricing for the base model Grand Caravan (i.e., no options) including all Dodge incentives comes to roughly $18,500 as a starting price. Also, in NJ there's only a $1000 incentive on the Mazda MPV.
That being said, here in NJ the price of the Mazda 5 definitely makes it appealing to me. We're going to have our first child, we want a car with a good amount of storage, and my wife insists that our new car have side-curtain airbags. I've looked at a Toyota Matrix with side-curtain airbags, and the best we can get it for is roughly $18k (we were told that they only put the airbags into models that also have lots of other option packages). The Mazda 5 comes with everything that we want as standard equipment, is bigger than the Matrix, has more horsepower than the Matrix, and would cost us roughly the same. Other alternatives we're considering, such as the Honda CR-V, would definitely cost us more than 20k. Even though we'd generally not use the third row of the Mazda 5, the advantage is the flexibilty that the third row offers if we ever need to carry more people (friends, etc.).
My wife and I don't want a minivan right now. Not just because of image, but because we don't need something as big as a full minivan for just one child (we wouldn't often use the third row). Our concern is that a nice minivan would cost a lot more and would be a waste of fuel. We're also not terribly happy with the fuel economy of the Mazda 5, give it a few more MPG and it'd be a no-brainer for us.
We are on the same situation. I have a 2003 Toyota Matrix right now, have a three year old son and it feels like the car is getting smaller everyday. My wife said we need a bigger car but not as big as a full minivan. We've been considering the compact SUVs like the Honda CRV or the Mazda Tribute but their cargo space is not much bigger than the Matrix's. The Mazda 5 would be the perfect size. With the third row seat folded, the cargo space should double my Matrix's. And it will cost us lower than a CRV.
I'm not happy too about the Mazda5 fuel economy but I read about a super turbo charger that was invented in the Philippines and is now being sold in more than 50 countries that can increase horsepower and at the same time increase fuel efficiency. This device is not being sold in the US yet but I have a feeling it will be soon. For more info about this device click on this link http://www.mb.com.ph/OPED2004123025397.html
...along with this description: "These pictures were taken at Port Hueneme, California, one of four ports Mazda uses in the US (two on the west coast and two on the east coast)."
remember, some people need (or just want) something with more modest dimensions. Our "odyssey is a nice travelling car, but I find it to be too big around town, parking at stores, etc. You might have a ton of room for the occasion when you need it, but the rest of the time you are hauling around a lot of empty space.
Maybe Mazda can make an expandable van? just put an accordian section on the back so you can extend the cargo area when you need more room!
Hey, there are expandable pickup trucks, why not expandable cars?
This is exactly the reason I gave up my minivan over a year ago for a 5-door hatchback--99% of the time we don't need the 6th-7th seats and the extra cargo room. When we need the extra seats, we either drive two small cars (happens about 4 times a year) or for the once-every-two-years long trip, we rent a minivan. If the Mazda5 had been available last spring, I would have considered it then but the price ($18k vs. the $13k I paid for a loaded car) and fuel economy would have been turn-offs. If the middle seats really do have good room for two large kids or adults that would make it much more desirable. The rear seat would have to be OK for at least 5.5' people for short trips to be practical for me.
Ok folks, the pictures are up. http://photos.yahoo.com/lenfink52 You will see it next to a Nissan Pathfinder and a Pontiac Grand Am.There is a picture of someone in the second and third rows. There are two shots with a standard size brochure in the storage area to give some size perspective. After thinking about this some more. I find that the best fit for this car is not the small start-up family. With a baby seat taking up one of the second row spots this car shrinks quickly. I think this car works best the college bound or college grad. It supplies a good amount of space for that individual at a price point that works. Hopefully you can drive it and see if it works for you.
considering this thing is basically a M3 "spacewagon", there is a remarkable amount of room. 2nd row doesn't look bad, but you need to test fit, since the front and middle seats both go for and aft. OK trunk room for around town, even with the 3rd seat up, and looks plenty roomy in 4 seat mode.
I'd still like to know if anyone knows how they really measure leg room in rows 2 & 3 of any vehicle. Are they assuming that the row in front of them is all the way up or back?
"I find that the best fit for this car is not the small start-up family. With a baby seat taking up one of the second row spots this car shrinks quickly." What does it mean, really? Any car with the baby seat in it "shrinks quickly"! Would you call Acura MDX a small vehicle? But with only one baby seat in it, the room is scarce. And the third row seats are no bigger, then in Mazda5. But you know, what Acura MDX have that is much, much bigger? MSRP! Please, don't try to peg Mazda5 against SUVs. Or minivans. "... If it had bigger third row room...", "... If it had a bigger engine...". "...If it had all wheel drive..." But it does not! It is what it is. Six seats, one engine, two configuration with few options. At this point Mazda5 is unique to an american market. It may be the sign of things to come. Personally, I like if not the car, but at least the direction it points to. "I think this car works best [for] the college bound or college grad." How did they get into the same boat??? :surprise:
Thanks for the pictures. They do help put things into perspective. I've been following the discussion, and I'm interested to see if the M5 fits my needs. I'm most concerned about whether the dealer/manufacturer will be around for the long haul. If the M5 meets my needs and fits my budget, it's the one I want.
I dunno, I've been thinking I can put 2 baby seats in the back row (one booster and one baby) and have 4 adults in the car no problem... don't need much in the way of leg room in row 3. Hmm.
There's all kinds of 5-seat, roomy vehicles out there, including wagons and SUVs
--------------------------
True, but they don't all have sliding doors and a stick option or Mazda's better handling. Even a bench isn't good for three in a vehicle the size of the 5. Unless they are "very" friendly or under the age of 10.
I give credit to the Element for having 4 roomy bucket seats. They probably lose some sales with only 4 but at least they aren't cramming in seats where there isn't room.
Six bucket seats is a good idea but I think the vehicle needs to be long for them to be practical. Freestyle size.
Yes, I agree and actually already made that point about the 5 being unique because of its room for 6, handling, and stick option. But keep in mind that the 5 can hold at most 4 adults too, just like the 5-passenger SUVs and mid-sized cars. A ten-year-old can fit fine in the middle of a bench seat, or in the back of the 5. But the 5 can hold two of them in back.
Consider that the closest thing to the 5 that's available right now might be the Pacifica. It's much larger, but has more room in the third row, has no stick option, doesn't have sliding doors (a pro or con depending on your point of view), and is more expensive with sale prices starting just under $20k and going way up from there with AWD and other options.
The Freestyle might have some advantages over the Mazda 5 (more horsepower for one), but the Kelley Blue Book price of the Freestyle starts at about $24k. That's $6k more than the starting MSRP of the Mazda 5. So I consider them to be in completely different price ranges.
Also the Freestyle is a 7-passenger SUV. The Pacifica's seating arrangement is more like the 5's (2-2-2 with buckets in the middle and split bench in the rear) plus the Pacifica (and Mazda5) look like a car/wagon instead of an SUV.
The Pacifica really isn't any more carlike than the Freestyle. Both are about the same size and both can have 2 2 2 seating, but the Freestyle can have 2 3 2 seating option, but they're both at least $5k more than the Mazda5. I actually was going to wait for the Mazda5, but I ended up buying a Freestyle a few months ago. I'm glad I did because the little bit larger size was well worth the much larger interior and I could handle the extra $5K. It's amazing the amount of baby-stuff I carry in the back, plus my wife's mom & brother will be visiting us for the summer and the Mazda5 couldn't handle all of us plus luggage. I didn't want an SUV or minivan, so for me the Freestyle worked out, but the Mazda5 was a close #2 if it wasn't for the extra space I needed. The second row in the Freestyle is huge
I do not need as much space as you do and if I do I would rather buy a minivan, a Honda Odyssey or a Toyota Sienna. I like the convenience of a sliding door. I have a 2003 Toyota Matrix right now and I like its looks. The Mazda5 looks like its bigger brother. I enjoyed my Matrix but I'm needing a bigger one so I am planning to trade it with Mazda 5. I won't need the 3rd row seat much and would probably fold it most of the time.
For me the Honda Odyssey & Toyota Sienna minivans would cost close to $30K for the same options I have on the Freestyle at $24K (I have the Z plan). I was really looking more at $20K in price, which is the Mazda5. I could handle another $4K with the Freestyle, but not another $8-10K. I was originally looking at the Ford Focus Wagon, but I really needed more rows of seats. I wish the Mazda5 had a 2nd row split bench. If they can fit a bench in the Mazda3 then why not in the 5? The Freestyle is more car-like than an SUV or minivan in driving, which I like, and it's not quite as big as a full-size minivan or SUV. It's probably one of the smallest 7 pass vehicle out there. Looking at price, if you have only $20K to spend then go with the Mazda5, $25K to spend get the Freestyle, $30K to spend then I'd get the Odyssey even though for the extra $5K you don't get that much more space. The space difference between the Mazda5 and Freestyle is big (reality space, not necessarily measurements, because I still don't know how they measure knee & leg room in rows 2 & 3...are the rows in front of them all the way up or back...), while the space difference between the Freestyle and Odyssey isn't so much.
I guess the reason they can't put a 2nd row bench seat in Mazda 5 is accessing the 3rd row seats. It would be hard to get to the third row because the sliding door doesn't open as wide as the door of the the Freestyle.
Well, again, people are comparing minivans to the Mazda5, which isn't a minivan. Think about how wide the Mazda5 is compared to a "normal" minivan. In many "normal" minivans, there's room for a bench seat AND enough space to squeeze around it. No such luck in a Mazda5, where a bench seat would come all the way to the door. So they had to put buckets in the second row.
Well but dang it, it simply looks like a mini_mini-van. Especially with the sliding doors, I think Mazda should have designed it with standard swing doors. Much like the original MPV setup.
The sliding doors are great for tight spaces--like in parking lots and in my garage. After I replaced my minivan with a car with 4 doors, several door dings appeared on my other car, from the rear doors of new car. Never had that problem with the sliding doors of the minivan.
If y'all remember...the first generation Honda Odyssey, which was a small van, had traditional doors. The doors always seemed to be a negative to consumers and the media.
I think you're exactly the market the 5 will appeal to. Those who like the Matrix, Vibe or ZX5 but want something a little bigger. The sliding doors and the bigger 4 cyl make it a slam dunk. It appeals to both sides of our brain, the practical and the sporty.
I don't think the 5 will attract the same customer as the bigger minivans or Freestyle. Singles, couples and families of three or four. Anyone who hauls more people or a lot of stuff will want something bigger.
I'm with you on the third row but I wish it could be removed completely for more room.
I'm curious to find out if we will like the Mazda5 when we test drive it. We are classified as the customers who would need the bigger minivan. We have three kids, 20, 12, and 8 years old. Our 20 year old son who suggested we get the Mazda5, has a 98 Forester that has been somewhat of a lemon because of the high maintenance costs. It is still somewhat fun to drive, being a 5 speed Subaru that handles well in bad weather. He's not ready to trade it in for a Mazda3 or Miata yet.
My wife is driving a 95 Camry wagon (7 seats, 170K) that is comfortable and extremely economical that just keeps on going and going and going... However, both my wife and I prefer to drive a stick shift and either of us likes driving a minivan. The only negative I've heard from my wife so far is that the Mazda5 looks a little like the Matrix and she doesn't like the looks of the Matrix at all. My sister has a Matrix that I've driven and it is not especially fun to drive. It feels like a maxed out Echo (sorry Matrix owners).
So, even after reading all the "I'm dissapointed about..." posts to this forum and agreeing that it really isn't perfect...seven spacious seats, 30 mpg, cargo space galore...I still am interested in a mini_minivan with a stick shift that is fun to drive.
Here are my two cents...I hate the looks of the Touring option. I would never purchase a vehicle with running boards, new or used. Manual transmission & running boards? These are two diametrically opposed options. Fun/ugly. As far as I'm concerned, if the Touring were the only option in the U.S., I'd dissuade my wife from considering the Mazda5. I agree that the European options are superior. Just one consumer... I want a factory installed roof rack. Duh..
I hope someone from Mazda reads this forum! They would be dumb not to.
If you had a 2nd row split bench that folded and flipped up (as in Freestyle) you'd still have access to row 3 and could put a carseat in the middle position in row 2. I like shifting too because I hate driving automatics that keep shifting to different gears when I want the car to remain in a specific gear. The Freestyle has a CVT, so it sort of never shifts but is always shifting, but you don't really notice any shift points like in an auto...just hope it's realiable!
Row 2 hip room for the Mazda5 is 58", 55" for the Freestyle, yet Freestyle seats 3 AND provides good access to the rear. Maybe someone will import the "+1" seat for the 5 to retrofit here in North America. Then I would seriously consider the 5.
"As far as I'm concerned, if the Touring were the only option in the U.S., I'd dissuade my wife from considering the Mazda5. I agree that the European options are superior. Just one consumer... I want a factory installed roof rack. Duh.. "
Man, you sound just like me - but up here in Canada we have no choice - it's Touring or nothing.
Honestly, the pictures posted have increased my excitement level umpteenth fold (thanks posters btw). The car looks smaller than what the brochure depicts (which for me is a good thing).
And to think I was in Oxnard (where Port Hueneme is located) last Friday. Had I known my future car was sitting at the docs, I would have made a detour for an in-person look instead of heading over to the Wal-Mart!
Comments
Well, obviously, for couples with a larger family or need for more room and who ARE prepared for a full size minivan for image or financial reasons.
You know, like the several hundreds of thousands of buyers who chose a DCX, Sienna, Odyssey, or Quest every year INSTEAD of an MPV because the current MPV is too small.
Forget pictures, have you actually SAT in it? I have. I'm a 6 foot, 250 pound guy. The second row passengers have plenty of room for my boat-anchor size 12 feet behind and beneath the front seats...even with the front seats also set up for my 6 foot frame.
I'll agree on the third row...that's basically a kiddie-row only. What you might be forgetting is that, in most 3 row vehicles short of full-size mini/vans and Suburbans/Excursions, the 3rd row is usually kiddie-room only. That's just normal.
Also keep in mind that this is not a $21k+ minivan. it's an $18k microvan. Some people can't hack the extra 3 grand to get a full size minivan new. The ONLY other minivan starting down at $18k is the piece of junk Dodge Caravan. And they charge for emissions compliance, and a rear defroster is "optional" instantly driving the base price here in NY to $19k.
The fact is, the Mazda5 is the ONLY game in town that can reasonably seat 6 and start at $18k. It's also the only game for $18k that can reasonably seat 4 adults COMFORTABLY (Except maybe an Accord DX with no A/C). That makes it unique in the market. Unless you want to sit with 3 other adults in that Accord DX. In which case I highly recommend you keep the windows all the way down.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
That being said, here in NJ the price of the Mazda 5 definitely makes it appealing to me. We're going to have our first child, we want a car with a good amount of storage, and my wife insists that our new car have side-curtain airbags. I've looked at a Toyota Matrix with side-curtain airbags, and the best we can get it for is roughly $18k (we were told that they only put the airbags into models that also have lots of other option packages). The Mazda 5 comes with everything that we want as standard equipment, is bigger than the Matrix, has more horsepower than the Matrix, and would cost us roughly the same. Other alternatives we're considering, such as the Honda CR-V, would definitely cost us more than 20k. Even though we'd generally not use the third row of the Mazda 5, the advantage is the flexibilty that the third row offers if we ever need to carry more people (friends, etc.).
My wife and I don't want a minivan right now. Not just because of image, but because we don't need something as big as a full minivan for just one child (we wouldn't often use the third row). Our concern is that a nice minivan would cost a lot more and would be a waste of fuel. We're also not terribly happy with the fuel economy of the Mazda 5, give it a few more MPG and it'd be a no-brainer for us.
http://homepage.mac.com/trancefusion/Mazda3/PhotoAlbum46.html
...along with this description: "These pictures were taken at Port Hueneme, California, one of four ports Mazda uses in the US (two on the west coast and two on the east coast)."
Maybe Mazda can make an expandable van? just put an accordian section on the back so you can extend the cargo area when you need more room!
And yes, that was a joke.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
This is exactly the reason I gave up my minivan over a year ago for a 5-door hatchback--99% of the time we don't need the 6th-7th seats and the extra cargo room. When we need the extra seats, we either drive two small cars (happens about 4 times a year) or for the once-every-two-years long trip, we rent a minivan. If the Mazda5 had been available last spring, I would have considered it then but the price ($18k vs. the $13k I paid for a loaded car) and fuel economy would have been turn-offs. If the middle seats really do have good room for two large kids or adults that would make it much more desirable. The rear seat would have to be OK for at least 5.5' people for short trips to be practical for me.
http://photos.yahoo.com/lenfink52
You will see it next to a Nissan Pathfinder and a Pontiac Grand Am.There is a picture of someone in the second and third rows. There are two shots with a standard size brochure in the storage area to give some size perspective.
After thinking about this some more. I find that the best fit for this car is not the small start-up family. With a baby seat taking up one of the second row spots this car shrinks quickly. I think this car works best the college bound or college grad. It supplies a good amount of space for that individual at a price point that works.
Hopefully you can drive it and see if it works for you.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Please, don't try to peg Mazda5 against SUVs. Or minivans. "... If it had bigger third row room...", "... If it had a bigger engine...". "...If it had all wheel drive..." But it does not! It is what it is. Six seats, one engine, two configuration with few options. At this point Mazda5 is unique to an american market. It may be the sign of things to come. Personally, I like if not the car, but at least the direction it points to.
"I think this car works best [for] the college bound or college grad." How did they get into the same boat??? :surprise:
--------------------------
True, but they don't all have sliding doors and a stick option or Mazda's better handling. Even a bench isn't good for three in a vehicle the size of the 5. Unless they are "very" friendly or under the age of 10.
I give credit to the Element for having 4 roomy bucket seats. They probably lose some sales with only 4 but at least they aren't cramming in seats where there isn't room.
Six bucket seats is a good idea but I think the vehicle needs to be long for them to be practical. Freestyle size.
Consider that the closest thing to the 5 that's available right now might be the Pacifica. It's much larger, but has more room in the third row, has no stick option, doesn't have sliding doors (a pro or con depending on your point of view), and is more expensive with sale prices starting just under $20k and going way up from there with AWD and other options.
Hope that link works...
-juice
Meade
http://www.mazda.nl/content/pdf/Mazda5_accessoiresbrochure.pdf
I don't think the 5 will attract the same customer as the bigger minivans or Freestyle. Singles, couples and families of three or four. Anyone who hauls more people or a lot of stuff will want something bigger.
I'm with you on the third row but I wish it could be removed completely for more room.
My wife is driving a 95 Camry wagon (7 seats, 170K) that is comfortable and extremely economical that just keeps on going and going and going... However, both my wife and I prefer to drive a stick shift and either of us likes driving a minivan. The only negative I've heard from my wife so far is that the Mazda5 looks a little like the Matrix and she doesn't like the looks of the Matrix at all. My sister has a Matrix that I've driven and it is not especially fun to drive. It feels like a maxed out Echo (sorry Matrix owners).
So, even after reading all the "I'm dissapointed about..." posts to this forum and agreeing that it really isn't perfect...seven spacious seats, 30 mpg, cargo space galore...I still am interested in a mini_minivan with a stick shift that is fun to drive.
Here are my two cents...I hate the looks of the Touring option. I would never purchase a vehicle with running boards, new or used. Manual transmission & running boards? These are two diametrically opposed options. Fun/ugly. As far as I'm concerned, if the Touring were the only option in the U.S., I'd dissuade my wife from considering the Mazda5. I agree that the European options are superior. Just one consumer... I want a factory installed roof rack. Duh..
I hope someone from Mazda reads this forum! They would be dumb not to.
Man, you sound just like me - but up here in Canada we have no choice - it's Touring or nothing.
And to think I was in Oxnard (where Port Hueneme is located) last Friday. Had I known my future car was sitting at the docs, I would have made a detour for an in-person look instead of heading over to the Wal-Mart!