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Comments
But in any case a Jetta at $26K doesn't represent a good value to me no matter the current pricing status. I wouldn't consider the current GLI at the pricing either.
Anyway, I was particularly looking for a TDI with manual. According to management it will be several months before TDI's or manuals are available. I have read in these newsgroups and in Car and Driver (I believe) that May 05 is projected as the availability date. Anyone out there talk to their local VW dealer and have any different dates? I plan on going to the debut at another dealer tomorrow and see what they have to say. VW is advertising TDI with manual on the website for the new 06 Jetta.
The Jetta had its usual attention to detail - especially in the interior ergonomics department. The controls for the stereo and the Air Conditioning/Heating systems were repositioned so the driver can have easier access to them. The Value Edition had the dual zone climate controls, power seats, satellite radio, leather interior, etc. The back seats have more legroom than my current Jetta. The sticker price was in the 25K range. A 2005 passat TDI was right next to the 2006 Jetta, and judging from the side by side comparison, the Jetta is nearly the size of the current Passat.
The 2.0T (when it arrives) should make this one sweet ride....
Especially with DSG and a chip
We could always add a V8 and 20" wheels, as well as neon lights underneath and nitrous injection...or hope that rationality prevails, I guess...
I’d prefer the chip; always more power there with just a little tweaking (my CPU is over-clocked 45%
It is apples to oranges, I know, but for that sticker I could have a Camry or Accord V-6 with most of those options, almost the same gas mileage, WAY more power, and more space. And the Jetta weighs the same as the 4-cyl versions of those cars, and WAY more than any other compact sedan out there.
My local dealer told me it would be "next year" before they had any manual shift Jettas, even when I made it perfectly clear there was no way I would be buying one with the Tiptronic.
To me the car does look very Corolla (front and rear), but in a better way. It is going to bear a very obvious resemblance to the new Passat when that arrives later this year, judging by the pictures. I did very much like the interior - Corolla has nothing on it in there!
My dealer made sure I spent some quality time with a promotional poster they had that compared the Value Edition to the Civic EX. First of all, the poster was wrong about the EX, which has standard security and other stuff that the poster listed as optional. In addition, the Civic has stuff like alloys standard that you can't even get on the Value Edition. And despite ALL that, the Civic is still more than $1000 cheaper! There is nothing like misleading or even false advertising to leave a bit of a sour taste in one's mouth....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
M
Would you say it was similar to a 3series "leatherette"?...or more towards an old chevy pickup?
merc: the laugh is the CEO of the VW group is quoted as saying he wants people to see that the new Jetta is bringing the "value" back to VW! It's a nice package, but I still say the price is on the high side.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I agree, I saw 26K and went "what the hell", but I remember the previous Jetta GLX costs that much too, but it had a V6. Its up to dealers to make deals and not try stick to list price at all cost in order to make this work. At this rate the GLI model will be like 27-28K, simply too much money in the minds of most U.S. consumers for a car of the Jetta's size. If they add a V6 model down the line and you know they will, it will push 30K!
M
If you don't want the package, you can just buy the value edition or the 2.5 and get some alloy wheels to replace the steel ones. Wheels are easy to change.
Here's the thing in all of this - SOME comparison has to be made to other car companies. VW is not the only company whose dealers discount off of list, so you might as well compare stickers even though they are not the real-world sale prices. And the fact remains that a $23K Jetta is a good $6K more than a Civic EX, Cobalt LS, or Corolla S/LE, and even more like $8K over comparably equipped Foci or Elantras (for instance). Or, going the other way, it is only $4K less than the Acura TSX with more power and options, or how about the Volvo S40 or the Saab 9-3? The later two are both fairly luxurious entry-lux models around the Jetta's size that start around $25-27K. None of these are perfectly exact comparisons, but there is a larger point that I think is valid - the new Jetta is one of the WORST value propositions among all the compact cars on the market.
The one thing that stands out in its favor is that the optional automatic is now Tiptronic, and has six speeds. That IS exceptional in the class.
BTW, on ALL those cars above, if alloys (as an example) aren't standard, I can order them as a stand-alone option. Same with a moonroof, stability and traction control, etc.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Or...you could argue with another 4K on the Jetta you would have the 2.0T and DSG with comparable equipment to a TSX.
This way it would be equally equipped (Jetta drive train being superior in my books) and have a competitive price.
After all, this is not the next “miracle” car, they are in a very competitive market and the other manufactures are no slouches.
It may not be the best car with the lowest price, but may be the best car with the highest price (I have high hopes for the 2.0T).
Or not
And I should add a footnote here: consider Audi. Arguably a nicer car than a Jetta is the A4, which will sell for the same price as the Jetta GLI with the same engine. There is more cachet associated with the Audi name, I think, not to mention a more sumptuous interior. And I haven't done the exact comparison, but there might be more equipment at that price too. And don't get me started on the A3, which will have the GLI engine and cost LESS than that Jetta.
Are U.S. consumers ready for VW to be an entry-lux brand? I don't think so, and I don't think anyone thinks of them that way right now, except possibly VW USA executives, judging by this latest offering.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A couple years ago when I purchased my “base” Accord and compared it to a base Passat, the Passat base was a couple grand more. The Accord didn’t come with ESP, or rear disks (yes drums), or side airbags, or pretensioners in the back, and a number of other items.
This made the overall “base” less for the Accord, but I cringe when I see a Passat driving by thinking “that could have been me” heh.
For the “high end” I see it competing with S40, TSX, 9-3 (lower trims) - for imports.
A3 YES, a Sportback; or a Jetta Wagon would do nicely.
Just because they made in look better than most luxury cars, doesn't mean it's fake.
Per VW themselves..."Genuine "Tamo" Ash wood trim"
Sheesh!
It's the wood, that makes it good...
sorry
Don't kid yourself, this car is nowhere near as big as those others. The cars in the same class (not including premium brands) with the Jetta are the Corolla, Civic, Sentra, Focus, Cobalt, Neon, Elantra, and Spectra. Not to mention the Impreza (AWD - not a straight across comparison), the Lancer, and of course the Mazda3 I already mentioned. All are thousands and thousands less in price. None have as nice an interior or as high an equipment level, except the Mazda3, but (almost) all are faster.
BTW, in the class of cars you mentioned (Camry, Accord, etc) VW has the Passat, which is again way more money than its competitors, and a very nice package overall, if somewhat less powerful than its peers.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Also, the front seats feel no wider than my RSX, and there is less space in the driver's footwell of the Jetta than in my car.
I know the new Jetta is some seven inches longer or whatever, but it doesn't show in seat space, so maybe the trunk is a lot bigger or something.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
M
If you want to see the right way to do non-leather seats, check out the cloth/T-Tec material on the Volvo S40 and V50. Really nice.
Volvo, it would be hard to get the cloth if their leather is of the same quality found in other Volvos. I think the leather in Volvos is the best found anywhere, especially the optional leather upgrade (gets pricey). A few years ago I was driving a C70 with the upgraded leather (some extra supple soft kind) and it was truly amazing.
Anyway sounds like I’d probably be one of the people sold on the leatherette; unless they bundle leather with a package I wanted (such as a sports package)
We can talk about another simplistic number...Why does the Jetta weigh about 600-800 pounds or so more than most of those cars...is that just useless dead weight? or does it relate to the car being more solidly built? or safer? or having more stuff on it?
If you want to buy a Corolla, Civic, Sentra, Focus, Cobalt, Neon, Elantra, and Spectra...that's fine. As potential buyers of Jetta V we did not look at any of those. The other cars my wife considered were Jaguar X-type, Volvo S40, Saab 9-3, Audi A-4...oh and the Passat. And we did not choose the Jetta just because it was the cheapest of those.
BTW, on the subject of entry-lux cars, what made you choose the Jetta over the S40?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My brother drives a 2003 Corolla and, while it's nice, it did not even compare to my '02 Jetta GL.
I guess for me I place allot of value of driving experience and you can't even put Corolla and driving experience in the same sentance. No comparison.
The Jetta that is just being replaced is quite possibly the most uninspired driving experience I have ever had. It hates to rev, it can't pull itself out of its own way, it hates to turn. And that is with the manual, I can't even IMAGINE trying to drive the auto version.
The Corolla is far from being a sport sedan, I agree with you there, but if the context for comparison is the current/old Jetta, then the Corolal is the sport sedan of the two. And it is moderately fast in straight aways - it is speedier than most cars in its class in that respect. It just doesn't much like to turn either. It has a busier ride than the Jetta, but everything else about the Jetta is worse.
Now the new Jetta feels peppy enough around town because the new 2.5 is torque-rich. But it is still a darn slow car. Handling, however, is much improved over the old model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I hope you would agree that these 2 variations are much better performers that the Corolla...granted they are more $$$, but they will whoop the Corolla all day.
I am guessing both of those cost MANY thousands more than a Corolla so they are being left on the sidelines. So, the proper comparison between the Corolla will be made against the base 2.0 Jetta. I still feel, after driving both cars, that the driving dynamics of the Jetta surpass the Corolla. But, I will agree to disagree. I am NOT saying the Corolla is not a nice car, it's just very uninspiring to ME. Now that I think about it....the styling of the Corolla may play a huge part in my opinion.....you can't tell me the stying works for you as well.....can you?
As for reliability...there's no debate!!
The 1.8T is nice but has enormous turbo lag and still has the handling problem. But wait, this is the '06 Jetta thread!
For '06 ('05.5) the Jetta's handling is much improved, although falls short of sporty in my book, mainly due to weight. The new 2.0T that is coming later is said by VW to have much less turbo lag than the old 1.8, and for their sake let us hope that is true.
As for looks, Corolla is not my favorite, no. Mazda3 is. Jetta has followed a lot of Corolla cues, and it is not the only one. A lot of the small sedans are starting to have this "egg" shape these days, in an attempt to make a short narrow sedan have a high seating position, with the high roof that entails. VW has softened that effect a bit by elongating the ends of the car, especially the hood, which is a debatable approach to the problem as far as looks go, IMO. I love the imposing front end of the new Jetta, designed to mimic the new Passat coming later. It is the new Jetta's best angle. But it looks a little unnaturally long at the same time. I wonder if there will be problems with scraping that long nose on driveways and stuff.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I look forward to driving a new Jetta as well. I just hope VW can get the quality thing down. Though the 2 VW's I have owned have been reliable (knock on wood). I see you drive a RSX....Nice car as well!!!!
Drove the Mazda3s stick shift before I bought the RSX, and it came within a whisker of being my choice instead of the Acura. It is a fabulous car let down by a totally crappy dealer network, and apparently an "issue" or two if you believe the posters at Edmunds. Weak A/C is one of them, and I would hate that.
The salesman I saw on the weekend was very very persuasive on the phone, and as a result I went back and test drove an automatic Jetta 2.5, now finally prepped for test drives. It is a very composed drive, quiet over bad pavement and not leaning much in corners. You can't miss a sense of driving a heavy car though. It stops just short of "ponderous", I would call it "heavily fluid". It is a very different ride from our much-discussed Corolla. The Tiptronic is great, but there is still no way I would consider anything but a manual, which I made clear to the salesman. There is lots of get up and go around town, but on an uphill freeway ramp with the A/C blowing, the engine began to run out of steam around 45 or 50 mph. This is once again an engine that doesn't like to rev a whole ton. Passing on the freeway, especially on uphills, is something you plan ahead for a little bit if traffic in the next lane is going a lot faster.
Of course, I bet it would be better with the manual. :-) (the eternal cry of the stick-shift addicted!)
I am bummed that VW has delayed the intro of the manual-equipped cars, and that it is still only a 5-speed when many companies are now going to six.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
VW probably is going to vacate the Corolla class for now. Makes sense, given VW's limited volume in US, more profits can be made in the upper segments.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2. IMO, the new Jetta easily outclasses the current Corolla.
3. The next Passat wil be move upscale, probably in both size and luxury.
On the other hand, Camry's and Accords still look too big to me, from the standpoint of having a 'tossable' fun car. The new Jetta seems a nice incremental increase. It is now 3300 pounds, up an amazing 500 pounds over the last generation, but gets similar gas mileage. It should be safer (the 3300-3500 pound category is what IIHS and others recommend for "safe" family sedns) and now weighs about the same as CamCords.
I don't understand why everyone is being so hypercritical here. Just try driving one - the engine is smooth and strong, the ergonomics typical VW good, and the 6 speed transmission (auto) is a dream). It cruises at 80 mph below 2,500 rpm, much better than the rather busy 4,000 rpm on my stick shift Golf.
Soon there will be Value Packages. Every car comes with ABS and side curtain, so you can buy a safe car at a good price. What's wrong with that? To get ABS and side curtain airbags on CamCords, you have to buy a more heavily equipped car, or else its the only one on the lot and its hard to make a good deal....
Ride and handling of both were fine with her. I thought the T-tech interior wa a little to odd...I'd rather have normal cloth/velour. My wife was okay with the t-tech, she kind of liked it. I don't like vinyl, but I would take Jetta's with the seat heaters over the Volvo T-tech if I had to choose.
If you like leather (we do not) the Volvo leather seemed crappy compared to the Jetta. The volvo leather was stiff and slick. Jetta's was nice and flexible and soft. I don't like leather but I would find the Jettas acceptable, not so for the Volvo.
The Volvo trunk access is a joke, you can basically only shoot stuff in horizontally...the opening is too small. I think the S40 should be a hatchback.
Despite the numbers supposedly being pretty similar, the Jetta felt much roomier to us. Back seat space behind me was much better in the Jetta. The trunk is much larger in the Jetta also. The height adjustable seats that are standard in Jetta are a big advantage to us.
My wife was not happy with the seat height in S40. Adjustable height for driver requires an $1800 option package that had nothing else we would want. This package did not even give the front passenger a height adjustable seat.
Price is not even close for what we want. We were offered base Volvo with automatic and DTSC for $23,000 which was $1750 below invoice. Jetta Value with auto and ESP (which is what we will be ordering soon) at MSRP is about $3100 less than the S40 selling price that we believe we would have gotten. We could even get the Jetta 2.5 for about $1500 less than the Volvo.
I am expecting Jetta to be as good as Volvo on safety. VW Passat and Jetta have been among safest cars in their repective classes based on IIHS driver death rate report that just came out.
The base volvo s40 has a very similar 5 cyl engine to the base Jetta. However, the Jetta has a 6 speed autonmatic vs. only 5 for the volvo.
S40 is a very nice, but pricey, car and I do like the looks of it more than the Jetta V (for my wife, however, the looks of them were a toss-up).
Based on quotes for extended warranty from my credit union, Jetta is expected to be a bit cheaper on repairs. Volvo might save a couple hundred on maintenance the first few years, because I think that is free.