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From what I understand, CR worded the Suzuki roll-over to drum up fear, because they had completed the construction of a new company headquarters and needed to sell more magazines.
Both sides admitted no wrong doings, yada, yada. But considering this almost sank Suzuki (they are still struggling to gain ground even today), I'm sure a LOT of money (or future favorable reviews) were involved. Suzuki stated they were "pleased with the result of the settlement." Hmmm....
Consumer Reports, Suzuki settle lawsuit
By The Associated Press
07.09.04
DETROIT — The publisher of Consumer Reports magazine and Suzuki Motor Corp. have settled an 8-year-old lawsuit in which the Japanese automaker claimed the magazine doctored road tests in 1988 that found the Suzuki Samurai tipped over too easily.
"July 2004 NEWS UPDATE:
Suzuki and Consumers Union Agree on Dismissal of Lawsuit
We want to thank our readers who have supported Consumers Union throughout the course of this litigation. The case has been dismissed by joint agreement, and it cannot be re-filed. We no longer suggest that you write to Suzuki or General Motors about the case. CU continues to stand fully behind its testing and report on the Samurai, has issued no retraction or correction, and has paid nothing to Suzuki. Click on this link to see the full text of the Joint Public Statement announcing the resolution of the case."
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/content/aboutus.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=457057&ASSOR- TMENT%3C%3East_id=456975&bmUID=1110230823091
"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration declined to declare the vehicle defective and has criticized Consumer Reports' tests because of driver variation. Consumers Union said it disagrees with NHTSA's position.
Consumers Union also said it has never questioned the safety of any other Suzuki model it has tested. It said its statement that the Samurai "easily rolls over in turns" was limited to severe turns in Consumer Reports' short course avoidance maneuver.
"CU's use of the adverb easily' may have been misconstrued and misunderstood," yesterday's statements from both sides said. "CU never intended to state or imply that the Samurai easily rolls over in routine driving conditions.""
CR basically hid the fact that they tipped on "severe" stress...which most SUV's at the time would (and some cars, too). As I said, they both agreed to say that there was no mistake made, but even CU felt the need to pony up on the omission.
So what I wanted to point out is...take everything with a grain of salt. For example, although the reviews are based on long term tests, the reliability ratings are done by cards mailed out to readers. It depends on who fills out the cards and sends them back (we all know that people who have problems with cars are the most vocal). Most VW owners were VERY vocal about the coil packs - which were all replaced by VW, by the way. Hence, the low rating for VW in reliability from CR.
Sorry to take this off topic...I believe that most reviewer allow their own judgments get into their reviews, including "unbiased" reviewers. The jetta, like suzuki, has taken some unfair beatings, most likely due to the country of manufacture (which shouldn't really matter).
The new jetta should be a nice care, although pricy (it does include things like AC standard). I look forward to the TDI wagon, which I am in the market for.
Now I have to decide to wait for the new model wagon TDI (in one year) or try to get a bargain on a 05 jetta wagon (cheaper, but smaller/less refined). Any thoughts?
True, except in the case of Honda and Toyota owners I think it is the opposite. They "never" have car problems and will tell you about it all the time. When they do have problems I think they keep quiet. :-)
I think the Edmunds data on repair costs, based on the cost of an extended warranty is a better guage. When you look at that, Toyota and Honda are not significantly different from some "unreliable" brands like VW.
True, except in the case of Honda and Toyota owners I think it is the opposite. They "never" have car problems and will tell you about it all the time. When they do have problems I think they keep quiet. :-)
I understand thats tounge in cheek, but you should reference some of the mediocre showings- such as for the Lexus GX470, for example, or last years V6 4Runner which was rated well below average due to a fuel system recall. And why then would Nissan have had the big swing it did- its customers are strong proponents of the brand as well.
~alpha
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now about the absurdity i read since i was last here.
CU did nothing wrong. period. any person with any intelligence at all would know that CR didn't imply that a suzuki would roll over in routine driving. they didn't hide anything. bottom line - suzuki wasn't going anywhere with their lawsuit.
there's nothing unfair about the jetta's reliability record and VW in general doesn't hold a candle to toyota and honda in this regard. it sure in the heck isn't only CR that comes to this conclusion and VW itself acknowledges their quality problems.
i sure do hope they're serious about their new stringent quality program.
what should be taken with a grain of salt are the LMAO conclusions that have been drawn.
Agree that it seems to be common knowlege that VW reliability is not good. And I am not claiming that this is not true. But why is that not reflected in the price of extended warranties? Are the differences really less than many seem to think? Or do the extended warranty sellers just like VW owners so much that they subsidise their warranty cost? Or???
Last fall we were looking at Jaguar X-type and Passat. My credit union has an extended warranty program, so I asked about the price. For Jaguar it was hugely expensive, Passat's (to my surprise) was quite reasonable. I think I may have even asked for a quote on a Camry or some such car for comparison, and there was not much difference between it and the Passat...but I am not positive that I did that.
Since we are now considering the Jetta and the Volvo S40. Perhaps I will ask for extended warranty quotes on these and then get a quote on a Honda Accord for comparison.
I’m not saying this applies to the Jetta, but I would take two window regulators and a blown out tail light to a corrupt transmission. I believe in this scenario the Jetta would have 3 problems to the other car’s one problem.
Therefore the car with three repairs compared to the other car’s one would make it seem much more unreliable, even though the total cost may be cheaper to fix.
Or not
As I said, no conclusions were made, just a common sense advice to look at all options before making a decision. I do hope that everyone makes well educated decisions in everything they do, and not take the word of one person/publication/entity as gospel.
I get a whiff of the VW versus Honda vibe in the above post. My take - if you enjoy what you drive, you should care less what the other person drives. A better man/woman can turn the other cheek if something is said about what you drive (it's ONLY a car). Arguing over the 'net is so pointless, and life is too short to quibble about which car is more reliable. Besides, we have other forums for that kind of discussion. Can we get back to the Jetta?
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My second prediction is the currenct price of fuel will slow down the sales of muscle cars and big SUV's. Last but not least, the price of fuel will not go down very much if at all.
I sure hope so, I am really tired of having my life threatened by those. I won't mind paying $2.50 or $3.00 per gallon for gas, if it results in the extinction of that species of vehicle.
M
After seeing the new jetta, I feel somewhat less jilted because the new jetta is a step up from the old jetta. But even if you settle for a jetta, you still get punished for getting a lower model. For example, you get a lesser TDI engine. I understand the price points are different, but if I want a bigger TDI and willing to pay for it, why isn't the option there? And yes, the bigger TDI is available in the Jetta everywhere else, just not the US.
My point? I hope VW rethinks it's stance towards budget minded VW fans, before they leave for competing brands that are starting to offer euro style and performance (the new saturns will be opels, even new fords/mazdas are sharing with volvo, etc). VW needs to remember what VW stands for.
Not wanting vinyl or leather seating surfaces, if we were to decide to buy one we would wait for the value edition to appear. The problem is if we want the S40 we will have to order one within the next month to get it configured the way we want it. So we will have to decide between the two before we get to actually see the value edition, if we want to get a car this year.
I know from the brochure that I picked up at the auto show that the Value edition does not include:
Dual-zone Climatronic automatic climate control
Multifunction trip computer with compass
Rain sensor with automatic wiper speed control
Heatable front seats
Not having those features is not a problem for us. But I am wondering what other differences there are (aside from cloth instead of "leatherette").
Does anyone know of any reliable pictures of the US Value edition Jetta, especially of the interior? Is their any other reliable information on what the differences will be?
it was nothing you wrote.
in my opinion the new jetta blows away the volvo40. i too have considered the volvo s40. unless you like the styling of the s40 way much better than the jetta i'll be surprised if you pick the volvo.
CR does apply different weights to problems (unlike JD Powers).
The small things don’t really bother me (if caught within warranty period) it’s the show stoppers, i.e. being stranded on the side of the road, which is intolerable.
i'll let others be the judge that you didn't come to some absurd conclusions from the press releases you posted.
since it was susuki doing the suing and then dropping the case and CR not retracting their position i would say CR was vindicated.
FYI, my previous two cars were jettas and my next car will likely be a vw/audi product. however, my current car is an accord. accept for the replacement of the ignition coils with my last jetta i didn't have any reliability problems with my jettas.
but it's just a little silly to say that the jetta's has taken a "unfair beating" in terms of reliability. i'm not saying the ignition coils were not a big part of the problem (heck even CR mentioned that) but there were times when there was a shortage of these coils and people had to have only the defected coil replaced and come back later to have the others replaced.
also, the mexican plant and the workers who assemble the jetta do a first rate job in my opinion. i blame VW for not having better quality control over their suppliers.
And you were right we are going for the Jetta when the value edition comes. Liked it better and will save about $4000
the 2.5 is more than adequate as a base engine but i'm used to much better. i think i would get tired of the not so pleasant engine whine.
and what's with the wind noise at the A pillar. hopefully when it's my turn to get a jetta (if i get one) VW will have fixed this.
the stalk columns feel somewhat brittle (along with the buttons on them) and three is one too many. the cruise control controls would be suited better on the steering wheel.
now for the good stuff...
the ride was fantastic! the jetta went down the road in an incredible ignot solid manner. add to that the great agility of the car and you have one premium ride. you would have a hard time knowing that the front wheels are both pulling and steering the car.
nothing near the jetta's price range comes close in this regard. some may handle as well but not with the magic carpet ride. if you value superb driving dynamics then you'll have no problem with the prices.
the six speed automatic was smooth and responsive. it could use a smoother engine to work with though.
i was surprised by how much i like the leatherette in beige. my big concern would be how durable it would be after time.
like the previous generation jetta, the new one comes with plenty of thoughtful features usually not available in this price range. some examples: the volume of the stereo adjusts depending on speed, the front passenger seat can fold flat and there's automatic headlights.
while i don't like all aspects of the interior's quality/design it is overall an elegant place to be.
i can't wait for the 2.0T engine w/DSG. you'll have one swEEEt car for under $30k. though many sources have said the gas turbo will be available as an option for the "regular" jettas i have yet to hear this from VW officially.
the test car was the jetta 2.5 with package one. this equipment level would suit me find (with the 2.0t of course) if the leatherette would prove to be durable.
DL
Are any information out yet, or is it still to early?
Thanks, Brian
I really like the fuel economy of the TDI, but I would like the amenities of the 06 Jetta. Anyone know if/when VW will offer the 06 Jetta with TDI?
Thanks!
i find it very hard to believe that any VW salesforce wouldn't know this.
Test drove one of these today. Fully loaded, $26,xxx was the sticker. No manuals available yet, so it was the six-speed automatic. Pretty nice, but I don't care for the styling. Some cost cutting from the previous generation--no more chrome sill around the trunk, no more illuminated vents (deleted in 2004). It has the hair-trigger throttle, just like my old VR6. 2.5 liter I5 was not as smooth as the VR6. From the short test drive, I'm not sold on it at all.
I did the test drive at Neil Huffman Volkswagen in Louisville, KY. The salesman fit the stereotype. He recounted how, when he bought his last car, he looked at the lots at night, when the dealerships were closed, and narrowed it down to two cars before he involved a salesperson--and made some other remarks basically implying I was wasting his time. If VW doesn't completely kill itself with its quality problems, its dealers will finish the task with their poor salesmanship and service.
VW should only have the pck 2 available on 2.0t Jettas. what good is it to be surrounded by all that "luxury" with an economy sounding engine?
the salesman response to my trunk lining observation - "but the opening is larger". i gave him the "that's hardly the point" look.
you may want to consider the audi A3 - if you're not already.
What's not to love about this car? The handling is super. I intentionally pushed the envelope on some windy hills and it really sticks to the road. The sport mode and the tiptronic feel really good too, if you're into the driving experience.
Heated seats with position memory, dual climate control, 10-speaker sound system with 6-CD changer, front & rear disc brakes, ABS, sunroof... it's all good.
I'll be happy to answer any questions here. -- Bob
I am. There's a new Audi dealer opening in Lexington, where I live. I need to find out which dealer group owns it, as there is one I will not give my business to. I'm hoping for some good lease deals on the new A3.
Mike
2004 Touareg, V-8
1999.5 Jetta TDI GLS
1992 Passat GL, 4 cyl
What is the rear room difference in the new jetta versus the 5 foor golf V? Do they have the same dimensions?
I would prefer a hatch/wagon over the sedan. And the wagon version of the jetta will be a few years out.
Anyone know much about the interior dimensions of the Jetta vs the golf?
I did go to a different dealership than the one that told me that 06 Jetta TDI's would not be available. I talked to the new dealership about the 05 Jetta TDI's. They had none on the lot. All had been sold the week before. Conversation with the dealer centered on that TDI's have instantly become very popular. The media stating that gas prices are going up and are probably not going down are fueling a run for a fuel efficient vehicle. (Pun's not intended)
Regardless, dealer located an 05 Jetta TDI that I would probably like. They would like me to put down a deposit and they will have the 05 Jetta TDI transferred to their dealership for me. However now I am waffling because I like the look and amenities of the 06 better. Waiting 3 months for an 06 TDI would be acceptable for me. Waiting 6 months would be too long.
I understand the price for the 06 TDI will be higher than the 05 TDI, but if I don't take the available 05 TDI, they may not be able to provide the 06 TDI within my time frame for purchase.
Specifically, I want the Sedan, Platinum Gray Ex., Gray Int., Manual Trans (Stick Guy), ESP, TDI engine, Leather and cold weather packages. Already approved for financing through CU. Just a matter of getting what I want, not what the dealer has available.
keep in mind that if you want leather you're going to get the top trim line (called pck 2). otherwise everything else you mentioned comes standard in the new TDI model. the standard upholstery is leatherette (vinyl) unless you get the pck 2 trim.
The 2.5 had plenty of pickup and power even with the slushbox - spent most of my time in the sport mode. Handling was nice. Trunk was huge and had the nice articulating hinges which was suprising as the next Passat has goosenecks.
Misses:
No rear seat power point. There is one in the dash, the console, and the trunk but one in the rear seat would be nice for my kids travel gear.
Driver tunnel - my right leg was up against the console. A little uncomfortable but not a killer.
Price - I realize it's a new vehicle with loads of features but $26K for a Jetta is a bit rich. Will this price jump be too much??
I believe this price range is similar to the current (too small) Jetta.
I realize that but whatever car I am going to buy will have the features available in the Jetta w P2 - leather, sunroof, 6 CD, memory seats, et al. The Value Edition isn't what I want. At $26K, it's in TSX territory which has a better reputation and longer warranty.
I believe this price range is similar to the current (too small) Jetta.
Current Jetta GLS loaded stickers at $23,200.
I'm not saying it's not worth it to some people. I just feel that $26K MSRP for a Jetta isn't a good value for me.
The Acura TSX is in a similar price range, but lacks the Jetta's memory driver's seat.
Also, the price of the GLS you mention is pretty good, but it DOES NOT include climate control, memory seats or power seats for that matter...
Only GLX models had these features and the GLX has LONG been retired.
So, I get your point...it does seem crazy to have to pay that much for a Jetta, but it has features that no other car in its class has...
And like you, I think the TSX represents the better value.
You can get some version of the current Jetta up to over $26K. My point was that as of right now the price range of the current one is comparable to the new one.
As for the current Jetta hitting $26K - show me. I used Edmunds and other than adding a spoiler there wasn't anything else I could add to it.
I just went to NADA guides and used a GLS Auto with CA/NE emissions, added everything including on-star (no longer offered) and every little do dad (spoilers, cargo mats, splash guards) and hit $24,217. It's still a 10% jump to $26K.
http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsb.asp?Search=NEW&ID=V9321&photo=VW051J65P8&loc=FOC&- mall=AN&year=2005&mk_code=VW