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Comments
Absolutely correct. Except it seems to be their national mode. At least we consumers can get some satisfaction that VW/Audi suppliers treat them as poorly a VW of NA treats us.
The new Jetti TDI:
feels much more solid.
is very quiet - no wind noise or road noise
shifts very smoothly
has better steering feel.
Very nice car.
Surprised though that the EPA was only 36 city 43 hwy.
That's funny that the EPA was 36/43, VW's website says it ought to be 38/46, same as the outgoing model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Accord hybrid also is not available in any cheaper versions, while the Jetta TDI starts at $22,000. Of course, one could do pretty well on fuel costs by buying a 4 cyl Accord.
I believe real world gas mileage for hybrids has been much lower than EPA numbers, more so than ordinary gasoline models. I don't think that is the case for diesels. My recollection is Consumer Reports reported 36 mpg in Civic Hybrid hybrid, which EPA rates at 48/47 mpg.
The Accord Hybrid will also get to 60 in six seconds - you won't find the Jetta TDI doing that. There ARE other benefits to the extra money you pay. One of which would also be the extra space in the Accord.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Going off on tangent...
Anyway,
The Jetta TDI should be a good MPG car, especially when the new fuel regulation come into play.
I also read, somewhere, that VW/Audi will be releasing their hybrids 2007-2008 or so
also VW rates the automatic transmission with better EPA figures than the manual. and if perfomance is your thing, well neither the TDI or the Hybrid accord produce eyecatching 0-60 times. not for $30k, anyways.
As for your reliability concerns, well they echo all the usual doubts folks have about hybrids, and I would be remiss in trying to naysay them. But we are going on five years here of hybrids in the U.S., eight in Japan, and there is STILL no evidence that these fears are well founded, even among many vehicles that are well over the 100K mileage mark.
Certainly when the time comes to recycle these vehicles at the inevitable end of their lifespan, there will be an issue of the environmental impact of recycling the batteries. We already have some good ways of mostly reusing them, and hopefully that will be improving even more.
In the meantime, if we are examining environmental impacts, we must not forget to consider the smog-forming NOx emissions of diesels, which are much higher than gas cars and are also the reason there are no diesels coming to the California-emissions states, and also the asthma-inducing heavy particulate emissions.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The 0-60 time the Accord hybrid was measured at 6.9 seconds by Consumer Reports. Although this is quick, the TDI's torque curve is flatter with more usable torque in the low RPMs. The Accord also does not offer a manual transmission, with the TDI you have a choice. The Accord lists for $31,000, though I doubt you could pick one up for that - supply and demand. Time will tell if these prices will stay elevated. :confuse:
Now that is a scary thought. As bad as their electrical systems are, the last thing they need are more electronics to go wrong.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
though the accord's 3.0 gas only engine doesn't have as flat of a torque curve as the TDI it does offers more low end torque and is much more responsive at any RPM. as for the hybrid accord - the comparison is more absurd in terms of low end power.
The only VW Jetta engine that makes less torque than the Honda 3.0L V6 is their base engine the 2.5L. And without seeing torque graphs I would argue that the “low end” torque, i.e. under 2000-2500 rpm, would be very similar.
The TDI makes even more
the TDI makes 177 lb-ft peak torque. perhaps you should look at the torque curves - the accord V6 does provide more low end torque than both the 1.9 and 2.5.
forget the numbers on paper, the accord V6 will smoke either jetta down low and the accord I4 provides better all round performance than either jetta.
Right now, these folks appear to love a Lotus Elise more than any other car because - to paraphrase - in spite of its fergitaboutit daily driver ability, It’s a pure sports car for sports-car purists, which makes it our champ.
And that engine can be had in a roomy sedan for $22-$25k, depending on trim and market.
No, you've got to want the Jetta's trunk, and I maintain, diesel engine to make this car seem special in any noticeable way. Road-burning performance is going to have to wait for new drivetrains, and pricing that will be even more silly [the $30k Jetta?]. Yes, the 2.0 turbo will come close, and will probably sell, when all the dust settles and the dealers get reasonable, for somewhere in the mid-$20s. But why put up with VW's dodgy reputation merely to be competitive?
The TDI is special for the reasons that only the Prius offers a comparably roomy package and can get 35-45 mpg in the process. Otherwise, the Jetta is bumping against competition that is faster or less expensive or more reliable or roomier or all of these things.
I actually wasn’t referring to “peak” torque but “low end” torque.
The TDI makes its 177 ft/lb at 1800 rpm.
The 2.5L makes its 170 at 3750 rpm
The 2.0T makes its 207 ft/lb under 2000rpm.
The Accord makes its 212 ft/lb at 5000rpm.
So if you run these engines to 3000rpm I’m “guessing” that the torque output would not be significantly different (other than the 2.0T being much more powerful).
I had an analogy earlier where I stated that my wife would not go over 4000 rpm (3000 being close to the limit) and that more power “on top” would be of NO benefit to her.
For me having LOTS of low end power and MORE on top is ideal.
The Accord V6 will EASILY run away from the TDI and 2.5L.
For the masses, my wife, and almost EVERYBODY at my work, 0-60 is the LAST thing they look at (seriously).
I’m reminded of a colleague that drove a WRX (with an auto) then an A4. He said it felt like the WRX had the parking brake on compared to the A4. Not like this comparison has anything to do with this discussion, other than illustration the “feel” is more important than the specs and the stop watch.
Edmunds usually attracts (vocally) the enthusiasts So for me yes I want power (2.0T with a chip).
BTW I do drive an I4 5speed Accord (regretting the decision to bypass the Passat), and am generally happy with it.
If VW could attract people to the show room and solve their reliability issues (actual or perceived, it still persists), I could see the Jetta being a success.
The discussion is not about the Accord V6, it's about high mileage engines, i.e. Accord hybrid vs Jetta TDI. The non-hybrid V6 Accord's mileage is a joke :21/30 vs 38/46 in the TDI. And those Accord gas pigs start at 24K.
Of course the Accord V6 will outrun a TDI. But you have to wring it out to seizure-like RPMs to do it. Not practical for an everyday driver - and tell me again how much torque does this V6 have at 1800 RPM? :confuse:
Forget it...
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I'd say this pointless discussion should be put to rest. Actually, the Honda Versus VW argument will never end - as both sides will never see the fact that the power bands are achieved through different methods, and you need to pick which one fits your driving style. I prefer not needing to drop to 2nd on a freeway to pass, but if you do, so be it. Be HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU DRIVE.
I sat in 4 Jettas so far, no test drive yet. It looks German from behind- like the previous generation Mercedes S- class that was thought too large. Square and wide at the bottom, rear glass is squared and crisp as no Toyota ever was. Shocking front at first glance- Looks best in Silver.
Feel free to start a discussion over there!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
“ all grown-up sort of heh”
How moronic.
Who wants to be all grown up even the people who “are” grown up don’t want to be there (they have to be).
I get the message it’s all grown-up but you don’t have to be ha ha here’s my money.
Where’s the little angles flying beside the corner wheels (x5) or the car racing a plane (300ZX) or my favorite the NSX screaming it’s engine through the Italian country side (still gives me goose bumps).
Why not “THE Jetta remember your youth..”
I’d like the wagon but don’t want the advertising campaign to say “grandma here’s your next ride”. I’d still potentially buy it just it would annoy me.
Does anyone have a good read on how well the new Jetta is selling? I'm curious.
-Andrew L
The TDIs are apparently just trickling in [esp in the Southwest, closer to the factory], but it will be weeks before that model can have any real effect on the sales numbers.
Because it's not nice to tell your customers they're old and then give them a heart attack by telling them that the Jetta of their youth now costs $26K.
I'm waiting to see the first one on the street - haven't yet. The new A3 has arrived too, basically the next-gen Golf 5-door, only with the turbo engine instead of the 2.5. Competition, competition...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
ummmmm.... no.
torque curves are NOT linear. just because peak torque arrives at 5000 RPM doesn't mean a car does not have low end torque. case in point: the accord's V6 has nearly 90% of its peak torque by 2000 RPM.
you don't have to have a lead foot for the accord V6 to scoot and you certainly don't have to rev the accord V6 very high to easily out pace a passat TDI.
as for gas mileage, 22/30 is very impressive for the excellent all around performance the accord V6 provides.
what makes VW's 2.0t appealing to me is not so much its peak torque at 1800 RPM but that it MAINTAINS it till 5000 RPM. i guess it's a good think VW didn't engineer the engine to have 1 more lb-ft of torque at 5000 RPM. otherwise i would be reading how you just have to redline the jetta 2.0t to get to its power.
other than the 2.5 engine, there's nothing low budget about the jetta. it's much closer (if not better) to an accord in features and driving feel. the accord lacks that solidity yet still supple ride that german cars seem to exude.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
of course the 2.0T should be standard on the jetta w/pck 2. if that engine is not available then VW should just forget about a pck 2 jetta until it is.