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Sulfur Smell from Toyota 4Runner
I recently bought a brand new 2003 Toyota 4Runner and can not believe that it is normal for my brand new SUV to smell of sulfur. I was advised that this was due to poor gas being provided in our area, however I have driven from NC to VA to OH to NY to PA and back to VA and then NC and tried different types of gas and octane levels in each state and it made no difference. I now have 5K on my SUV and the sulfur is just as bad as it was when I purchased it. Why is it that I do not smell the sulfur in other vehicles, but only mine? A friend just bought a brand new Ford Explorer and his SUV does not smell like sulfur. I have questioned the dealership about this and they are convinced that it is not the catalytic converter and that it is the quality of gas in America. Any suggestions?
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Do a little research and you'll see that the new V6 engines are having this problem. The quality of gas has nothing to do with this.
I was just about to buy a new V6 Limited, but now I'm waiting until the end of the year to get a 2004. Sorry about your problem, but hopefully Toyota will come out with a fix for it soon.
It's not just Toyota, I think it's the modern catalytic converter that's the culprit. If you read the forums around Edmunds for many many new cars, you will read about the same complaints.
I haven't read any discussions in Edmunds concerning this issue on other brands, and I tend to surf around Edmunds discussions quite a bit.
Oddly enough, I am old enough to remember this being an issue on the first generation of automobiles equipped with catalytic converters in the 70's. I have not had a car since that has had this issue, but then I have never owned a Toyota or Honda.
Are both these brands using some different emissions control strategies or catalysts that are different from the others?
The disruptions of oil from Venezuela have lead to changes.
Plus with new low sulfur regs coming out soon the refineries have rushed to use up all the cheaper garbage oil in the world.
The other problem is the new LEV catalyst which are more efficient but more tempermental as to gasoline quality.
Ever wonder what the phrase sweet crude means.
I have noticed other postings about the smell, and some people detect it all of the time.
I will continue to watch for it.
It's apparently due to the burn-off of the sulfur deposits in the converters which primarily occurs during heavy acceleration. The V8s seem to have the problem more frequently, but the V6s and many other models & makes have it too. I wonder if the difference between the V6 and V8 models is related to the fact (if I understand it correctly) that the V6 uses 4 catalysts and the V8 uses 3? It seems like significant and/or frequent production of the smell requires a set of conditions (including fuel and engine operating regime) that most people don't get into too often. On the other hand, some folks have reported experiencing it all the time, even with the windows rolled up and with fresh air coming into the cabin. That's a real puzzler, and I haven't heard an adequate explanation.
I feel that the condition of the vehicle presents a real health and safety issue. To truly determine if it is I must answer the following questions. What gas is entering the vehicle compartment? How much? Is it hazardous?
Identify the gas that’s entering the vehicle compartment.
Answer: Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) is formed when fuel containing sulfur is burned.
How much?
Answer: It turns out that Sulfur Dioxide has an odor threshold. What this means is that if you can smell it, the concentration can be determined. According to the Canadian Center for Occupational Health and Safety, the instant you smell Sulfur Dioxide the concentration is known to be 3-5 ppm (parts per million).
Ref: Canadian Center for Occupational Health and Safety
What does Sulfur Dioxide do to the occupants?
Answer: High concentrations of sulfur dioxide can result in temporary breathing impairment for asthmatic children and adults who are active outdoors.
Short-term exposure:
o reduced lung function
o wheezing
o chest tightness
o shortness of breath
Long-term exposure:
o respiratory illness
o alterations in the lungs' defenses
o aggravation of existing cardiovascular disease
People affected include children, the elderly, and those with cardiovascular disease or chronic lung disease.
Ref: http://www.adb.org/vehicle-emissions/General/Health-sulfur.asp
Is this a hazardous condition?
Answer: Yes. According to OSHA, The STEL (Short Term Exposure Limit) is limited to 5 ppm over 15 minutes of exposure. Therefore, if the odor threshold is 3-5 ppm and the STEL is 5 ppm, then if the smell is present in the vehicle for 15 minutes of driving, then the Government standard for exposure has been exceeded. This has occurred multiple times since delivery of the vehicle.
Ref: Safety and Health for Engineers, Roger L. Bauer, ISBN 047128632-X
About myself, I’m employed by XXXXXXXXX in FT. Worth, Texas. While employed here I’ve dedicated a considerable amount of time as a Safety Engineer performing analyses such as this for the various programs. This data used in this analysis is readily available and well documented.
Sincerely,
Stephen XXXXXXXXX
To all that need this, please use it.
At least one reference I've seen suggested that humans are sensitive to these sulfur compounds at concentrations far below those that are hazardous, and that the levels produced by the converters aren't a health problem. If you end up in this kind of argument in a lemon law hearing, I don't know how it would come out.
Well, that's just an opinion to add to the mix. I haven't had the smell much, but when I did I realized how unpleasant it could be if it were inside the cabin much. Good luck, and let us know how your case comes out.
they can fix this if they really want to. it has to get expensive to get them to want to, it would appear. so make the condition expensive.
A while back I posted a suggestion (directed to those that have the problem a lot) that folks try temporary use of a short diverter pipe (could even be CPVC plastic, just taped on) to point the exhaust farther to the back or out to the side, as some other vehicles do. Heck, even a downward redirection (or some combination of side and down, for example) might improve things. It might only take 3-6 inches of pipe and a 45 degree bend, and a successful fix could be cheaply rendered in steel by a muffler shop.
It might work or it might not, but it would sure be a lot less trouble than a lemon law effort. If I had the smell with any frequency, I'd try this in a hot second. Anybody tried this?
You pour a small bottle of this additive into your tank, and as the fuel burns, it emits a smell. The only "flavor" I've smelled is "bubble gum", but they make root beer, pina colada, and 10-12 others. I'm serious, I'm not making this up - I wonder of root beer would coverup rotten eggs?
If you have to keep your windows down, I do think the exhaust extension/bend is a good idea.
I am seriously considering getting the borla dual exhaust system for my 4Runner though (the pipes exit the sides). I think it might keep the exhaust away from the rear window...
No problem so far with mine, but it only has 1,000 miles on it...when did the problem start for those who have the issue?
They designed the cats to work with the fuel the government PROMISED but didn't force the delivery of!
This is why diesels still don't have catalytic convertors the Sulfur in the cheap oil would destroy them fast.
It's NOT just a Toyota thing - I've seen hundreds of complaints on this subject from owners of many brands of vehicles.
mhallack,
The smell was very slight in the beginning. In fact, at delivery I mentioned it and they told me that since this was a ULEV vehicle the converter needed to "break in". I like to think that they were misled as well, but given that their one goal is to get you in the car, I think they intentionally lied to me. It appears to be getting more intense. I hope my hearing goes well.
Consider this. We don't smoke in buildings anymore, right? Why? Because people who don't smoke would be subjected to it. Breathing emissions for 5-6 years can't be good for you. That's apparently why the exhaust pipe is OUTSIDE the car.
Furthermore, I'm a safety enigineer and I do analyses like this daily. Let me educate you. If you smell sulfur on a daily basis, it's dangerous and unhealthy. Prolonged exposure is proven to cause a vast array of cardiovascular problems. I understand that you are some sort of investigator? Before responding, read my previous posts. You'll find links to references that substantiate my claims. Investigate that.
I see no immediate cure for the problem of smelling emissions from vehicles as we drive, especially in close-in traffic.
Just like I see no immediate cure for the problem of smelling the guy's cigarette or cigar in the car next to me.
Considering 4 throat surgeries, I'm extremely sensitive to odors like these, often gagging and losing my lunch over tailpipe emissions or a cigarette - believe me, I "get it".
The only fix I see is beating the smoker with a stick so you don't have to inhale their smoke - unfortunately, it's not the right thing to do and I could get into trouble for it.
I just Toyota's official response to the arbtitration. It's their postion right now concerning the problem. I don't think they even understand the problem. They say the smell comes from the fuel. Well, I think we can all agree the Sulfur is in the fuel. I have explained to Toyota no less that 6 times and even had the customer servie rep write it down as I was saying , then repeat it back. The problem is that the smell is INSIDE the vehicle! I can just see it now....we finally get to the day of arbtitration and the Toyota rep says "ohhh, it's inside the cabin". I'm going to request in writing that they bring all my case documents in from all my phone calls so I can show the guy what's been going on . Toyota is being Extremely evasive. I'm never buying another Toyota.
It's a fuel/EPA issue, not a Toyota issue.
so how is it, then, that we have regressed to bonehead technology that accumulates sulfur from the exhaust and stinks it away under load?
maybe E V E R Y T H I N G !! ought to be recalled that was made with the current technology to be destunk.
A few years later, it seems like 1 in 10 cars smells like that - weird, and nasty.
but I don't think they're doing the job based on the amount of stinkers on the road.
which means they were improvidently approved based on insufficient testing. specifically, the old GM jobs were probably sniffed on the test track, and the new ones aren't. just like the Mack diesel engines about 5 or 7 years ago that were faked up to pass EPA bench testing, and they all blow black clouds like exploding volcanoes when you accelerate under load on those things. it was tricky programming on the injector computer that did it. Mack had to pay a dinky-[non-permissible content removed] fine (some dozen millions or so) and promise their next engines and subsequent rebuilds would pass.
surprise, there was no next engine, they have outsourced engines in the new trucks.
My poor GF following me, immediately smelled the horrible odor, but she didn't know what it was or where it came from. Boy that sucked for her the whole 11mi home.
This was a 3mi new car. In no way was I driving it fast. I was a granny the whole way home.
I'm really hoping this is going to go away soon.
I bought the V6 thinking that everyone said the CLEAN CA gas was not causing sulfur smells. No quite the case.
However, if your windows are up, your air-system is on recirculate and you still have the odor issue, then something is wrong, beyond the presenting symptom.