By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
shifty, I think it's the O2 level and fuel. Remember, sulfur isn't the issue. Toyota has a design flaw here.
aflster, good question.
Zues, where are you?
No smell in the Honda.
Only defect I noted was a bad electric window channel that was binding.
like the TSB bulletins on the board of the dealership. i don't doubt them either - but presumably the other vehicles from other manufacturers don't have an issue with the windows rolled up.
i posed the question before: is it possible these cars are either running rich, have a defective cat convertor, or there's a genuine issue with venting and a vacuum pulling gasses into the cabin??? how about a poor connection in the piping somewhere between the engine exhaust manifold back to the cat, and onto the muffler???
rcgator - i'm no car mech, but i imagine a shop that does mufflers could provide a small length of pipe for the purpose of a test. i imagine you'd look for something of slightly larger diameter than your exhaust pipe and maybe 8-12in long.
then i'd stand it up on end, and use a hack saw, and cut down the middle of the tube (blade across the diameter) about 2-3in so you have something to crimp with a clamp when attaching it to your exhaust pipe.
then i'd use an exhaust muffler "C"-clamp, and i'd carefully attach the temp piece of pipe over the existing exhaust pipe with the clamp, with just enough gripping / crimping to keep the temp piece in place without damaging the exhaust pipe.
another thing i'd try is locating the drain for the sunroof that's been discussed, and also the cabin vent to determine the proximity to the muffler exit. i'd try one or both experiments to either (a) block airflow back up the cabin vent, or back up the drain for the sunroof or (b) a perfume or cologne or essential oil swabbed in the unblocked vent or drain to see if that scent made its way back into the cabin while driving.
Build date - 6/03
I'm in front of my computer.
Originally from Texas, moved to PA three years ago - I live and work (from home) in Lansdale, 25 miles NW of Philly.
Tacoviva, I love my problem free 4runner. I like Honda's as well. Unfortunately, I don't think that an accord will be good offroad or pull my boat. HeHe. Congrats on the Accord. It's a million mile car.
By the way, I hope you (and others) are not under the impression that I doubt the existence of this problem or think it's no big deal. I've experienced the smell on the outside of my vehicle and others a couple of times and if you've got it bad, it's really an ugly smell. One can argue about whether you should have to tolerate it outside of the vehicle and whether it's a health hazard inside the vehicle, but getting any significant amount of that inside the vehicle on a regular basis is just unacceptable.
You've got a Sequoia, but I'm assuming for now that the situation is pretty much the same as the 4Runner. Perhaps the simplest thing to do is to go to an auto parts store or two and ask them about a short tailpipe extension of 6-8" or so. The tailpipe on the 4Runner is a little under 2-5/8" in outside diameter, or about 65mm. The folks in the parts store should be able to sell you a tailpipe extension, straight or angled, that will fit this and clamp on with a set-screw. Many of these folks will be happy to accompany you outside the store with a ruler or calipers to measure your tailpipe.
You can try this and see if your problem improves sufficiently. If so, you can keep this solution or just go to a muffler shop and tell them you want them to weld on something similar. I assume they'd cut several inches off the existing tip and weld on a short extension that goes (preferably) farther back and to the side, getting the exhaust out of the stagnant/negative pressure area at the rear of the vehicle.
Instead of a commercial tailpipe extender, you could go to your local home center and tell them you want a short length of plastic tubing that will fit over the existing tailpipe. I think the exhaust is not too hot by the time it gets to the end of the tailpipe, so you could use CPVC or even PVC or electrical conduit (whatever is cheapest). You just need 8-10" of the stuff, and it needs to have an inside diameter of 2-5/8 or bigger. Many places will cut a length for you, for little or no charge, though you might have to buy a whole 10' length. If you want to try diverting the exhaust to the side, also buy a matching 45 deg. elbow and some pipe cement. Maybe a dollar for the elbow and several dollars for the cement.
For a temporary/trial solution, just wrap some tape (I'd try the blue masking tape or black electrical tape) around the outside of the existing tailpipe, to make it big enough so that the extension fits over it snugly. You might try adding or subtracting 1-2 wraps at a time until you get something that's not too loose. Then fit the extension on and use more tape on the outside to fix it in place. See what happens, and if you like it you can get a muffler shop to make something permanent. It'll be a small job for them, and not very expensive.
My previous posts in this thread have discussed the location of the cabin air exits and sunroof drains (and how to find them), so I won't repeat them here. Whether it's from one or the other, I think this is probably how the smell is getting inside the vehicle, and diverting the exhaust farther away from these locations, especially to the fast-flowing air on the side of the vehicle, should be a real help. Also, using the fresh instead of recirculate air position and keeping the blower going a little, should help.
user777 brings up a good point about these vehicles maybe running too rich too much of the time. They are supposed to run rich under heavy throttle (and that's the only time most of us get the smell at all) and perhaps something is wrong with one or more of the oxygen sensors or the engine computer. That would explain the generation of the smell, and the badly-placed exhaust outlet would explain how it gets inside the cabin. So far, though, nobody has reported their smelly vehicle failing an emissions check or activating the "check engine" light.
You'll need to decide if you just want to extend the tip 6-12" or divert to the side via an angled tip.
Since the same gas goes in both vehicles I think it must be a design flaw if only the 03’s are causing a problem.
an experiment is an experiment...the point is to do it. functionally, both SHOULD work, but like I said, if the pipe diameters are mismatched...in my mind, there's still a possibility the fumes might not exit the pipe as intended.
This may be just an unfortunate combination of factors, which conspire to bring the smell in. Hopefully if we change even one, the situation will improve significantly.
On another note, I was at Toyota again yesterday. They checked the car again, drove it for five miles and did not get the odor (or so they claim), and then suggested that my car has a distinct odor in it caused by dirty diapers (I have an infant seat in there, but no dirty diapers were there at the time and the car does NOT smell of dirty diapers!!). They still claim that they have never heard anyone complain of this before, but they did give me some numbers of people to get in touch with. The regional technical advisor said one of the engineers will be in Miami next week and that he will get in touch with me so he can drive around in it and see if he can figure out what the problem is.
Lastly, I spoke to Mr. Rich at the EPA who says the problem is caused by a buildup of hydrogen suflide in the catalytic converter that is released under certain conditions. He will send me a copy of their form letter regarding this issue, so I will at least have that backing me up when I meet up with the Toyota rep. He also said that they have had numerous meetings with Toyota, and that they sent several engineers from Japan who are trying to come up with a fix. He says not to worry too much about the health threat because sulfur dioxide is easily detectable at very low levels at which toxicity is not yet a problem. Of course, long-term exposure at these levels could still be problematic.
Anyway, sorry to ramble so, but I thought I'd let you all know where we are in the whole mess.
Thanks again for all the help!
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20044runner_s
consumer goods are obsolete as soon as you buy 'em. that's the nature of the market.
grin and bear it, just because it has wear and Blastfire will have a new model on display next week so yours is "behind" doesn't mean its a junkpile. polish it and drive.
After 6,000 miles the smell was worse, the dealer wouldn’t even look at it. Told me to change the type of gas. I did this for 6,000 miles more. No gas was better than the other. Now the interior has a permanent smell.
In addition, the dealer told me it was normal to smell your exhaust at highway speeds, as the vehicle is not airtight.
At 13,000 miles they finally agreed to make an appointment to look at it. They found a loose bolt on some exhaust piece. Then told me the smell of sulfur in the seats and carpet was my problem. Believe it or not this did not fix the problem.
I ran an add in the local paper,” 2003 4-runner, V6, sunroof, power everything, paid 33,000...Must sell cheap due to miserable exhaust smell in the car which Toyota says is normal.” Guess what ....not a single call.
For all of you people that claim its an octane issue, the 2003 v6 4-Runner manual say 87 Octane, I would not have bought a car that gets a poor 16-18 MPG that only uses 91 octane or higher.
I am about to start the lemon process on the “finest SUV on the market”
Oh, what a feeling.
keep it posted if some one finds any solution through toyota.
asif
I took the 2003 dealer demo out for an hour trying different senaros. All windows down, all windows up, fast starts, slow driving, and faster - 75 mph on the freeway. Would occasionally stop, walk around the truck and never noticed the sulfer smell.
I did not drive the 2004's as hard, they had around 10 miles on them. I did notice the smell of the stuff burning off the engine, maybe it masked the sulfer smell?
I realize that this is not enough testing to confirm anything so I have started taking a survey of 4Runner (03 & 04) owners to inquire about the sulfer smell. To date I have asked 3 people about this concern, they each had no idea of a problem and never noticed an odor. All used regular 87 octane and all were 2003's. One was a V8, did not ask the others about engine size but will include that as I continue this survey.
Maybe this is a regional issue? I live in South Jersey, maybe the re formulated gas makes a difference. My 02 Runner has 36500 miles and never, that I have noticed, had a sulfer odor.
I am concerned after reading post #330. Some folks have responded to this topic and never have this problem. I will be purchasing a 04 Limited whenever the dealer locates one.
Does Lexus have a sulfer odor with the GX470? Are people complaining about the Sequoia or Land Cruiser with the 4.7 V8? Why the 4Runner and not other vehicles with the same engine?
If the vehicle I am purchasing has this odor when I test drive, I will keep my 2002 until this issue is resolved. If I do not detect an odor, maybe I will luck out and get one that does not have this problem.
It's been frustrating to me that apparently so far nobody with the problem has seen fit to experiment with fixes themselves. The folks on this board want to help, but so far there's been no chance to do so in this way.
The sulfur smell was THE major reason why I waited for an '04, and I almost didn't buy one because of it. I am keeping track of all my driving and will keep posting as my 4runner gets more miles. If anyone has any sort of testing requests please let me know as I'd like to help anyone thinking about getting one of these. So far I am really happy with it (although there is one annoying rattle coming from the Glove box area- I'm taking this in to get it looked at soon).
http://www.trdusa.com/
I read somewhere that Borla makes the exhaust system for TRD (pre 2003). If so, it may eventually be a TRD option for the newest generation. Advantage is if Toyota installs a TRD accessory at the time of purchase, you will have the full warranty applied to that accessory 3 yr / 36000 mile or be covered by the length of the extended warranty if you decide to purchase it.
Boral does offer a system for the 2003. Does not list 2004 but probably is the same.
http://borla.com/
If this increases HP and Torque 7 - 10%, this is not a bad option to consider.
The vehicle is a piece of crap. Toyota will not stand behind the sulfur problem. All they will do is blame the type and grade of gasoline. Anyone who purchases one of these vehicles deserves what they get.
The only way to correct the sulfur problem is to get rid of it to some poor unsuspecting person, or a dealer. Either way you will take a big loss.
Good Luck
Peace
Yep - because ALL vehicle makes and models see the same issue at times - it's not just a 4Runner issue.
You say "Anyone who purchases one of these vehicles deserves what they get" and I admit it is tempting to say that both you and the rest of us have gotten what we deserved.
That would be uncharitable, though, and I wouldn't want to leave the impression that I consider Toyota blameless in these problems. While I've been very happy with my purchase and I know that lots of different vehicles have problems with sulfur smells, I think Toyots could do more to clear up the smell production and especially the phenomenon of it getting into the cabin. In the meantime, some of us are doing what we can to experiment and learn more about solutions.
I look forward to hearing from you again when you can contribute something useful to these discussions.
Don't just blame the Runner. There are many vehicles that are exhibiting this new trait. As mentioned many times, my V8, build date 2/03, smells just fine and dandy, window up or down.
I agree that Toyota should should take some responsibility about this problem. The smell entering the cabin should be taken a bit more seriously. But it is not.
If other vehicles are experiencing the sulfur problem, I am unaware of it. That is not saying that I haven’t smelt a bad odor from other cars, just nothing like the odor from the new 4runner. Anyway, concerns should be centered on the vehicle that you own, not others. It is of no help.
I understand the defensiveness displayed here when I post a tirade like I did earlier. People made a decision, which resulted in a considerable purchase. They want to stand by it, and that is ok.
But the fact remains, the new 4Runner has a major problem.
Peace
I live in reformulated gasoline MD so the gas should not be an issue.
My coworker has the exact same truck, except his is a limited. We buy gas at the same store and my 4-runner stinks while his doesn’t. I even traded for a week and I didn’t even get a whiff of sulfur.
Rather than buying a tailpipe extender to fix the problem myself, I am renting the billboard next to the dealership for $300 a month. Now I just have to figure out what I can say legally.
How many of you people posting work for Toyota?
As to your question about how many posters here are shills for Toyota, I don't think it's very many. At least a couple of folks have identified themselves as Toyota (typically dealer) employees, but the rest of us are just people who have bought a Toyota (or are considering doing so) and want to learn more or help solve problems. I've read 10,000+ posts on the 4Runner boards, and it sure seems unlikely to me that they are infested with stealth-Toyota employees.
This 4Runner is my 3rd Toyota, and I have simply found that Toyota's priorities in designing and building vehicles fairly closely matches mine in choosing which one to own. My previous Toyotas have been amazingly durable and reliable, and the quality to price ratio is well ahead of anything else I've found.
There are still problems, though, and this smell issue is one where some of us would like to get it figured out. That's why we keep posting and asking questions.
It's like the guy who painted his car yellow and wrote "lemon" on it.
He didn't get any concern from the manufacturer, the dealer wouldn't let him on the lot with it - all he ended up with was a bunch of people laughing at a poor quality yellow paint job. And he was out $500 - for what?
Rent a billboard??? Good GAWD! Get a life.
One guy set his Mercedes on fire because he thought it was defective. It turns out the idle was off a bit.
I don't belittle people with the sulpher problem. It is widespread and not just Toyotas that have this issue. But don't throw the baby out witht he bath water!
In other words, if you are considering a billboard, get a life!