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Honda Accord vs Acura TSX
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Comments
Wayne
"Maybe the TL needs to add some $’s to catch the EX V6’s spec’s after the minimal modifications? The TL is no svelte runway model in the weight department either TL: 3,570 #’s vs. EX V6: 3,384 #’s (both w/ Auto’s) to be exact. "
Yes, there are deals to be had on the Accord. Of course, nobody's paying MSRP for the TSX anymore either. So, if you want to compare apples to apples, you must use MSRP.
tlauro - I don't disagree with you. A few strategic mods can dramatically improve the Accord's performance, and easily meet or beat the TL. And personal taste (styling, features, etc.) plays a huge role in everyone's choice of car.
"All the mods you list added up to under $31k and were not at all difficult to install myself."
I think your $31,000 Accord is impressive. It has TL-like power and is probably a match for the TSX in handling. But how many people will really install this stuff like you did?
"The TSX as I said is nice, but it's nothing more than a very entry level car just like the Integra it replaced."
You're right. Just like the 325i and IS300 are also entry-level cars...
Remember, you can spend money and modify your Accord, but all of the performance upgrades you have done are also available to the TSX.
It's all about how much $ you want to spend...
Do you really want to compare the TSX to the Accord? The TSX has a smaller interior size then that of the Honda Civic!
Acura TSX: Passenger: 91.0 - Cargo 13
Honda Civic: Passenger: 91.4 - Cargo 12.9
The TL and Accord are almost dead wringers for one another in the size department
Acura TL: Passenger: 97.9 - Cargo 12.5
Honda Accord DX/LX: Passenger: 102.7 - Cargo 14
Honda Accord EX + w/ Powered sunroof: Passenger: 97.7 - Cargo 14
With the TL’s extra heft, it appears that the EX V6 is more then a match for it’s slightly more powerful V6 let alone what it loses with its excess weight in the twisties? Personally I like the looks of the TL’s rear end more then that of the TSX or Accord and the Accord’s front end better then the TSX and about equal with that of the TL. These are my own personal preferences however.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
No. I'm the one who's been trying to explain that you can't compare the Accord to the TSX, remember? One's a midsize family car and one's a sport sedan.
"The TSX has a smaller interior size then that of the Honda Civic!
Acura TSX: Passenger: 91.0 - Cargo 13
Honda Civic: Passenger: 91.4 - Cargo 12.9"
Yes, and it's perfect that way:
BMW 325i: Passenger: 90.8 - Cargo: 11.0
Lexus IS300: Passenger: 89.2 - Cargo: 10.0
M-B C-Class: Passenger: 85.5 - Cargo: 12.0
See a pattern here?
"The TL and Accord are almost dead wringers for one another in the size department...
Acura TL: Passenger: 97.9 - Cargo 12.5
Honda Accord DX/LX: Passenger: 102.7 - Cargo 14"
I agree, for people looking for room for the family, the Accord and TL are both fine choices - but why stop there?
Honda Odyssey: Passenger: 171.4 - Cargo: 147.4
The Odyssey is basically just a taller, longer Accord, right? So why limit yourself to 5 seats when the Odyssey has 8? Both are about as exciting as clipping your toe nails.
No. I'm the one who's been trying to explain that you can't compare the Accord to the TSX, remember? One's a midsize family car and one's a sport sedan.
Except when the family sedan owns the sports sedan in the straight line performance game (the TSX’s torque rating show it to be rather gutless imho) and with a few mods, possibly in the twisties as well? It is one thing to show, it is another thing altogether to go ;-)
See a pattern here?
Yes, I do. After 30K miles, you might wish you had purchased a much larger car for much less money.
The Odyssey is basically just a taller, longer Accord, right? So why limit yourself to 5 seats when the Odyssey has 8? Both are about as exciting as clipping your toe nails.
The Ody does share its platform with the Acura MDX and the Honda Pilot. I like the Acura as it has many of the Acura luxuries we would all like to see in our other automobiles including a RES that is very nice on longer trips. Would you like to drive a TSX, IS, or C-class across the country with the family or an MDX Touring w/ RES, ODY w/ RES, or Pilot with the same? They have completely different purposes and given the speed limits, the MDX does just fine in the performance department thank you.
Personally, all it sounds like is that Honda/Acura spent some time detuning the Accord’s handling so that there was some cross over between it and the TSX/TL. With Tlauro’s slight modifications to the Accord V6, it sounds like he has not only out guessed Honda/Acura’s own guesses, he has possibly surpassed the stock TSX/TL platform and for thousands less. Again, I am not a performance buff myself but if the price is right, ($34.00 for a 17 mm rear sway bar and $60.00 for some STB’s to come close to the TL’s ride and handling even on the stock Michelin’s), I am all for it.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
According to C&D:
Accord EX-V6, 0-60: 7.0 - 1/4 mile: 15.5 @ 92 MPH
TSX 6-speed, 0-60: 7.2 - 1/4 mile: 15.6 @ 91 MPH
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article- - - - - - - - _id=2488&page_number=2
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- - - - - - - - id=6742&page_number=2
My Miata takes about 8.5 seconds to reach 60 MPH, and yet it's a vastly superior "performance car" than the Honda Accord.
"and with a few mods, possibly in the twisties as well?"
With enough money spent on the right mods, the Accord can even be made to "outhandle" a stock Miata. Does that mean you've made an Accord that's a better sports car than the Miata? Is it as tossable? Is it as much fun to drive?
The TSX will always outperform the Accord when both cars modified to the same degree, ie: a TSX with H&R coilovers will outhandle an Accord with H&R coilovers. A TSX with Comptech rear sway bar will outhandle an Accord with a Comptech rear sway bar, etc.
Face it, invest enough money and the Accord can be modified into a very respectable canyon carver, but it will always be longer, wider, heavier, and slower steering than the TSX - it will also cost more than a stock TSX that's ready to carve right from the factory.
"Would you like to drive a TSX, IS, or C-class across the country with the family"
It wouldn't be my first choice, but since my other car is a Volvo V70 wagon, I'll never have too.
And that's my point. If you need a safe, reliable car that does everyhing pretty darn well, but does nothing exceptionally well, you can't go wrong with the Accord - so, don't buy a TSX.
Honda only imports about 20,000 TSX'S per year, so please, please...save them for the enthusiasts!
You just compared the TSX w/ a stick to the Accord EX V6 with an Auto and the Accord is still faster. Knock off about a second for the Accord EX V6 w/ a 6-speed.
And now you are bringing up a Miata and a Volvo? The last post you brought up an Ody. The key here is with a $90.00 investment, the Accord EX V6 starts handling like the TL. The tires may or may not need to be swapped out. I know people that spent more then $90 on the mats in their current ride so stating “enough money spent” is a bit over the top in this case, don’t you think?
The TSX will always outperform? It appears as if the Automatic equipped Accord already beats the TSX in a straight line let alone the crushing a TSX would take against a 6-speed. With $90.00 worth of suspension mods, the Accord EX V6 might do some damage to the TSX’s sports car handling in the turns as well. Then you have size, comfort, safety, price OTD and at resale time. Tlauro’s suspension mods (not the HFP kit or 17’s) sounds like a very low cost investment to achieve close to the TL’s handling and if it actually does, it would be $90 well spent. If you want a throw around performance automobile, the upcoming 06 Civic Si will probably beat anything being discussed here and will probably be < $21K when doing so.
Finally, Honda will import as many TSX’s as there is demand. They aren’t going for MSRP and MSRP + around my area anymore and I bet they are doing the same in yours. Fortunately, I won’t be purchasing a TSX as they feel like an over priced Civic with my few minutes behind the wheel of one.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
If you consider .2 seconds a crushing victory, then so be it. Personally, I would not be able to tell the difference.
"...let alone the crushing a TSX would take against a 6-speed."
When Honda decides to sell the Accord EX V-6 sedan with a 6-speed, then we'll have something to talk about.
"The key here is with a $90.00 investment, the Accord EX V6 starts handling like the TL."
And have you ever driven the TL? It's fast, but it's also a soft, overweight barge compared to the TSX.
I've driven the TL, and there's no comparison. The TSX is a much better "driver's car."
You obviously place a lot of value in straight-line speed, so you'll never be able to understand what makes the TSX so special.
Enjoy your boating!
Having said that, I agree that the TSX would be a lot more fun to drive, especially if one had twisty roads (which I don't, living in the midwest). Although subjective, I can't imagine anyone prefering the looks of the Accord over the TSX and it's just ludicrous to compare it to a Civic.
Here's a question: have you (or anyone else) compared the manual 4 cyl Accord to the TSX? The nearest Acura dealer is 100 miles away so I'm wondering if driving a manual Accord will give me a feel for the power. They have very similar torque ratings.
If you consider .2 seconds a crushing victory, then so be it. Personally, I would not be able to tell the difference.
___No, the manual Accord EX V6 would crush the TSX w/ a Stick. I didn’t post the numbers from the Auto, you did.
When Honda decides to sell the Accord EX V-6 sedan with a 6-speed, then we'll have something to talk about.
___Ahhh just to let you in on a little secret that most anyone that has ever looked at an Accord knows, they do.
You obviously place a lot of value in straight-line speed, so you'll never be able to understand what makes the TSX so special.
___Actually, I am far more interested in the Honda/Acura lineups Fuel Economy then any straight line performance number. As it stands, not only does the Accord EX V6 w/ Auto have higher straight line performance, it has an ~ equivalent FE rating from both the EPA and in the real world in a much heavier, larger, and safer automobile. If I ever do purchase another Honda, I will make sure you get a few screenshots of the FCD in the NAVI so you can see what I am actually interested in.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Ooopss. The Coupe has the 6-speed, not the Sedan.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
not so. honda is intentionally keeping supply less than demand for the TSX.
As it stands, not only does the Accord EX V6 w/ Auto have higher straight line performance, it has an ~ equivalent FE rating from both the EPA and in the real world in a much heavier, larger, and safer automobile
i know for sure the tsx is heavier than an accord i4. not sure about the accord V6 though but it's certainly not "much" heavier. the tsx has a more ignot solid feel than the accord.
i second the notion that comparing the tsx to a civic is ludicrous. the tsx roots are all accord. that is a more agile fit domestic accord.
OK, whatever floats your boat.
"...in a much heavier, larger, and safer automobile."
We agree that the Accord is heavier and larger, but safer too?
You need to explain that one to me...
not so. honda is intentionally keeping supply less than demand for the TSX.
So if there are 32 TSX’s on the lot as is the case at my local Acura dealership and they are going out for < MSRP, how is Honda intentionally keeping supply less then demand? Controlling it so it doesn’t get out of hand is one thing, controlling it so it is less then demand wouldn’t allow the above.
i second the notion that comparing the tsx to a civic is ludicrous. the tsx roots are all accord. that is a more agile fit domestic accord.
It sure is except that the Civic has larger interior and almost the same sized trunk. According to those over at TOVTEC, the TSX could not handle the Accord V6’s ICE because it is too small in the width department. This thing is not built off an Accord platform but something else altogether. The Euro Accord platform uses the NA TSX’s but it to is smaller then the NA Accord.
Acura TSX: Passenger: 91.0 – Cargo 13
Honda Civic: Passenger: 91.4 – Cargo 12.9
Fedlawman, it appears the TSX is safer according to the NHTSA side impact ratings
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Torque - The Accord reaches peak torque (161) at 4500 RPM, and then begins it's decline towards redline. By comparison, the TSX has matched the Accord's peak torque at only 3000 RPM, and remains at or above 160 lb-ft all the way to 6000 RPM.
Horsepower - The Accord reaches peak horsepower (160) at 5500 RPM, and then it begins to drop dramatically towards redline. By comparison, the TSX has matched the Accord's peak horsepower at only 5000 RPM, and it continues to surge up to a 200 hp peak at 6800 RPM. Then, even at the 7400 RPM fuel cut-off, the TSX is still making more than 190 hp.
My guess is that, seat of the pants, they probably feel the same from idle up to about 4000 RPM. Then from 4000 RPM to 5000 RPM, the TSX begins to pull more strongly than the Accord Then, from 5000 RPM on, the Accord yawns it's way to redline, while the TSX continues to surge harder and harder towards 7400 RPM.
Wow, I'm getting excited just thinking about it. Hey, I think we're running low on eggs. I better go to the market just in case...
The TSX also stops 25' shorter from 70 MPH, turns a .85 on the skidpad compared to the Accord's .74, and has Electronic Stability Control.
So theoretically, the TSX driver may be able to avoid an accident that an Accord driver cannot.
So theoretically, the TSX driver may be able to avoid an accident that an Accord driver cannot.
Yep.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
I once read that 80% of the car buying decision process is emotional. Not that I 'm calling you guys emotional.
So agree to disagree, I'm going out for a drive.
Hope you enjoyed your drive.
I don’t know about a shortage of TSX’s here in the Chicago area but the far Northern IL. Acura dealer were we picked up the MDX from (Libertyville Acura) has 41 brand new ones on their lot
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Funny, I just checked Libertyville Acura's website. They claim an inventory of 16 2005 TSX's, some of which are probably not on the lot. Libertyville had a grand total of ONE 6MT vehicle and only three with Nav (the more popular model).
I guess they must be hiding those extra 25 brand new TSX's someplace were their customers can't actually find them.
Good Luck,
David S.
Funny, I just checked Acura of Libertyville and they showed 33 TSX’s on the lot. I thought it was 41 because it says 33 on top and 8 on the next page when there are actually only 33 in total. A lot more then 0 or 1 as some must have thought. Maybe you should call them tonight and find how many they have?
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Must be a lot of Edmunds posters in that area. No one wants an auto.
The problem might be that you don't read as carefully as you should. The website lists both 2004 and 2005 TSXes. Unless you believe that the dealer has 16 or 17 remnant TSXs on his lot from 2004, you appear to be counting his demo fleet and some other used vehicles. For one reason or another, that webpage is listing all the TSXes on the lot as "new" and then also reporting that there are no "used" TSXs (which is unlikely). you basically inflated your number by counting any TSX on the lot, and then claiming that it was a new 2005. And, btw, when I called that dealer, I was told there were no new 2004s on the lot.
Either way, your claim that your dealer had 41 new TSXs on his lot turns to be pretty far off. So much for your credibility, eh?
That dealer has 16 new 2005 TSXes, only a few with NAV, and only one with manual. The situation there is basically the same as it is for every other larger Acura dealer.
Good Luck to you too,
David
Funny, I just checked Acura of Libertyville and they showed 33 TSX’s on the lot.
The problem might be that you don't read as carefully as you should. The website lists both 2004 and 2005 TSXes.
Please feel free to read and understand the bolded sentence above before making brash, inaccurate, and mindless statements.
For one reason or another, that webpage is listing all the TSXes on the lot as "new" and then also reporting that there are no "used" TSXs (which is unlikely).
What does that mean? They don’t have 33? They have 33 but they are used? They have 33 but some are used, some are demo’s, some are 05’s, and some are not really there? You have their phone number and their website for confirmation so let us know what you find?
Either way, your claim that your dealer had 41 new TSXs on his lot turns to be pretty far off. So much for your credibility, eh?
Read the first sentence again. It was 33 and they still list 33. My credibility? You just stated that their web site must be off? Did you create the numbers in stock at Libertyville Acura off the top of your head or did you check their web site? Maybe you like making numbers up?
Wayne R. Gerdes
To be frank, this is getting a bit silly. We could argue about what you wrote and what I wrote. But, here is the bottom line: I called your dealer. They don't have 41 or 33 new TSXs. They don't have anywhere near that many TSXs. They actually have very few TSX's and most of the ones that they do don't have the popular NAV option. And, if you don't believe that, call them yourself, and then come here and publically eat crow.
Your claim that dealers in the Chicago area have excess inventory of TSXs is a lot of nonsense. The specific dealer you named doesn't have much inventory, and neither does any other dealer.
And, btw, I am not arguing that the supply of the TSX has anything to do with it being a good car or a better buy than the Accord (which I do not believe). The reality is though that TSX is in short supply, and the Accord is widely available.
Last point: I went to cardirect, and typed in the zipcode for that area - 60048. It returned a target price of INVOICE for your region. In other words, the vehicle is in such short supply where you live that there is little discounting.
Again, so much for your theory.
David
It is silly so please stop making it up as you go. The Libertyville Acura website is the only one I checked at it listed 33 TSX’s. It still lists 33 TSX’s. Does it not say 33 TSX’s? Since you called them, how many do they have as that might be of interest to those looking and picking them up (see Acura TSX - Prices Paid Buying Experiences). As for if they have NAVI or not, wasn’t that kind of a stupid question? What is the exact mix of NAVI TSX’s should they have? All NAVI’s? All Manual’s? Only Manual’s w/ NAVI’s? Maybe you live in Podunk but in the Chicago area, Auto’s are the prevailing transmission of choice. Can you figure out why? I am sure Acura of Libertyville has a far better handle on what sells in this area then you do or are you saying you know better then they?
Secondly, why do you keep making stuff up?
Your claim that dealers in the Chicago area have excess inventory of TSXs is a lot of nonsense.
First off, I didn’t claim it, I only looked at the closest Acura dealership to me. For everyone lese, here are a few recent posts in the Edmunds --> Acura TSX Prices Paid forum.
#1247: Savio,
Sorry for slow response. I don't think I could have gotten it for much lower than I paid...I paid about $330 over invoice which I consider pretty reasonable, and most of the dealers in the NC/VA/SC area would not match it. I put about $20K down and got 3.69%APR on my 36 month loan, which I was pretty happy with (they beat my 4.75% rate from my credit union). My itemized costs are included in a previous post which you can find if you look back a few weeks.
Good luck!
#1255: i bought my 05 tsx black on black non navi for $500 over invoice in chicago with splash guards, trunk tray, mats, and cargo nets all included. i shopped all the local chicago dealers and none that i know of was able to go less than 500 over invoice. i recommed shopping at the largest/volume dealers and bring you credit financing stuff with you. because i thought i got a good deal i may have been stiffed with a 5.99 for 60 months with excellent credit. local credit unions can offer me at least 1% less. so now im in the process of refinancing. i also recommend getting email quotes as several dealers asked to see their competitors quotes in writing. mcgrath in westmont is the largest chicago area dealer and will have the most leeway. mcgrath in morton grove tried to sell me one with 200 miles on it as if it were new.
#1268: I am in Massachusetts and I received a quote of $28,000 with 3.2 financing for a 2005 TSX Auto with Navigation. The wholesale price is $26,123 so that is a 7.5% profit.
#1279: Invoice price is $26,993
#1272: On the 21st I got a quote on 2005 w/navi for $27,100. not including tax, tag, destination. This LA internet manager said he lots of models in stock and was very eager to move them.
#1274: Just got an email quote for a 2005 auto/non-nav with three extras the dealer said were already on the car (splash guards, trunk liner, wheel locks) for $27,200, tax not included. If my math is right, that looks like roughly a $1600 profit for the dealer. With Indiana's inventory tax due on all cars remaining on the lot on March 1, dealers are supposed to be anxious to move their inventory. Am I right to be unimpressed?
Hmmm. I guess all the posts above are theory vs. your facts created out of thin air. Again.
Wayne R. Gerdes
I don't even know what point you are trying to make with all those posts but I can't say I really care.
I think it is funny, btw, that you are even participating in this thread. You essentially paid $40,000+ for an MDX when a $33000 Pilot is nearly identical in performance. You made the same move all the TSX drivers here did - you gave up a little value for more style, comfort, and a brand name. I see nothing wrong with that, but I think it is pretty hypocritical of you to then deride the TSX.
Anyway, to the subject at hand: I still think value is all about what you want from a car, and whether you get it for your money. I would not have been happy with an Accord. I don't like the way it looks or handles, and I hate that there are so many of them on the road. I would rather pay $29,000 for a car I love, than $26,000 for a car that I don't care about at all.
But, I have no illusion about the TSX being a better value for most other drivers. Frankly, I think the Accord is one of the best values on the road and I don't think many other cars match it in bang-for-the-buck. I think it comes down to your own needs. For most drivers, I think the Accord makes more sense.
But, again, just my opinion.
The two of you who are having a personal beef need to take it off line if you want to continue. It does not belong here.
Thank you.
http://www.acuralibertyville.com/en_US/
Quick Search --> New --> TSX then click on search.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
by the way i thought the concept SUV looked great when i saw it the chicago auto show. not that i would ever drive a SUV.
Honda hasn't had that much experience with turbo engines. But, I think a turbo in the TSX would make a lot of sense.
And, yeah, the new SUV looks great.
P.S. The mod asked us to move on from the less-than-productive discussion about the TSX supply. Let's do so - and let me apologize fo the board for getting sidetracked in that tedious direction.
I won't claim to be a marketing guru but it seems to me that Acura has got to maintain a performance gap between the TL and the TSX or risk losing sales of the more expensive model to the cheaper one. Since TSX sales are running almost double the initial projections and demand seems to outstrip supply, there's really no need for them to change the recipe. Time will tell.
if we're to follow your logic then the RL should accelerate better than the TL. it doesn't, just the opposite and the price difference between the TL and RL is much larger than between the TSX and TL.
each of these three sedans have their missions and it involves more than power.
i don't think there was a "new" CRV on display at the chicago auto show. there was a new acura CRV sized SUV on display however. sorry. i can't recall the name right now.
i always thought VW's new 2.0T/DSG would be perfect in the TSX. so it was music to my ears to read about honda's potential 2.0T.
if honda could work out the emissions on their turbo diesel and use it in the domestic accord and put that 2.0T (slightly detuned from the new acura SUV of course) in the CRV then honda would kick some serious butt.
The RDX is slated to be built in the US. So, it would be relatively easy to put a enhanced version of the USDM Accord V6 in that vehicle. But, again, who knows?
I didn't say anything about the RL, you simply inferred (incorrectly) that my "logic" was that performance should increase along with price.
My point was that the TL is the performance sedan in the Acura lineup. If the TSX performance were too close to that of the TL, then it is my opinion that some, perhaps many, potential TL buyers would opt for the TSX, resulting in lower profits for Honda. If Honda ups the TSX power such that the performance gap becomes negligible, then I will happily concede that I was wrong.
given the RL's SH-AWD system, it's the TL that's the least sporty sedan in the acura line-up.
are you saying the tsx is just an acura people get because they couldn't afford a TL?
the reason honda doesn't have a V6 in the tsx is because they want to keep as much weight off the front wheels as possible for better balance.
this is just speculation (perhaps wild) on my part, but if it's true that honda is developing a small turbo engine then it would be ideal for an auto tranny tsx because of the low end torque it would produce.
if anything, an auto tsx should accelerate more than a "little bit better" compared to an i4 accord.
As for acceleration of the TSX vs Accord - I think they'll be similar around town. The 0-60 times are almost the same, in fact. The TSX feels a bit more lively at higher speeds, but that could be just my perception. Overally, I think the HP advantage of the TSX is a bit of an illusion.
The TSX weighs more than the Accord but yet the TSX is approx. 6 inches shorter. What is the reason for this? What is heavier in the TSX than in the Accord?
The V6 Accord is much much faster than the 4 Cyl TSX. The 6-speed Accord V6 is 0-60 mph in 5.9 seconds and the 6-speed TSX is 0-60 mph in 7.5 seconds. That is a difference of 1.6 seconds and that is a hugh difference. Or are you comparing rhe 5-speed 4 Cyl Accord ?
Cheers,
MidCow
I think he was but in either case, unless you are flooring it from each stoplight, practically speaking there's no difference from the V6 either. They can both keep up with traffic.
Only if you increment of measure is in minutes. Get real. Based on that philosophy, A Ferrari is the same as a Toyota Prius, because both can keep up with traffic
Faster and Better, 6-speed V6 Accord Coupe,
MidCow
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=7- 011&page_number=1
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=7- 011&page_number=1
Accord Coupe EX-V6 6-speed 0-60 in 5.9 secs, 1/4 mile in 14.5.
TSX 6-speed 0-60 in 7.2 secs, 1/4 mile in 15.6 secs.
That's 1.3 secs quicker to 60, and 1.1 secs quicker in the 1/4 mile.
I have to ask, why does it matter that the TSX is slower than a 2-door coupe?