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Honda Accord vs Acura TSX
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They also made sure to mention Honda has plenty of hard core R@D on Turbos from F1 racing.
i knew i read that some where. i thought i was going over the deep end for a while.
i think i stand corrected. your reasoning seems very sound.
Honda did run turbos at Indy (pre-IRL) and CART.
Honda doesn't really need turbos. Their history is flush with cutting edge NA designs originating from their motorcycle origins. I still have an '83 Interceptor, a technological tour de force with a water cooled, V-4, yes V-4 that put out 100 hp/liter in 1983! I've always wondered why they never put this configuration in a small, light sports car (the S2000 would be perfect). At 2.4l, this would equate to 240hp without forced induction.
I drive an old '92 4cyl auto Camry. 130 horsepower. I would say it allows me to accelerate as quickly as I need to in 85-90% of around town traffic situations, and maybe 80% of highway situations. I may have to floor it on occasion to achieve those percentages, but that's the exemption, not the rule.
I rented an '04 4cyl auto Mazda 6 for a few days recently, and that car made me look around for the cops! More than enough power with that 160 horsepower engine, even with an auto tranny. As much acceleration as I would ever need in 95% of city driving and 90% in highway driving.
Now, these people who are making a big deal of the difference between the times of the V6 Accord vs. the 4cyl TSX? I look at them the same way I look at people with Christmas tree lights still up in August.. strange breeds! :P
Frankly, you are probably the kind of people I wouldn't want to be driving near, as you are more likely to be someone who is looking to accelerate out of the tightest of spaces with the smallest margins for error, weaving in and out of traffic to gain every possible advantage.
For 90%+ of the population, the TSX has more than enough "get up and go!" To me, engine power should be towards the bottom of the list when it comes to consideration factors between the two models.
exemptions to the above rant:
~ people in mountain states w/ drastic elevation changes.
~ people who have to blast the AC most of the time.
~ people who often carry very heavy loads.
~ people who spend a lot of time at the autocross.
6-speed manual quality important
performance
miles per gallon
Car cost
Depreciation cost
Insurance cost
Ability to use regular gas
Security and remote door lock/unlock
Trip Computer
Safety Air bags: front, side, side curtain
Tires and maintenance cost
Sporty driving feel
Good stereo
Moonroof
Roof Rack that could carry two Kayaks or two bicycles
Good Trunk space
NAV system
Ability to carry at least three people
Handling
Braking: ABS, EBD,
Autoclimate control
New Formula Red or Milano Red color; second choice black
Xexon lights
Heated Mirrors
DRL
TCS
VCS
Front wheel drive
================
And my choice was a 2005 Black Honda Accord Coupe 6-speed with NAV
Someone that is driving a 13 year car maybe is not on the same car enthusiast level that I am. Although I still have a car the is almost that old, a 5-speed Lexus ES300 that still has better fetures than most cars available today, such as a setero that blows away the Mazda3 and Nissan Altima line, heated mirror, autoclimate control, quiet-still no squeaks, sporty handling, crisp acceleration with a 5-speed and only a 185 hp 3.0 L V6.
Again, acceleration and horsepower are important to the car buying public. If it wasn't so than why do all car vendors keep increasing the horsepower.,. Even the Avalon has go to a dual exhaust 280 Hp car that now is stating their 0-60 mph time as 6.6 seconds.
I guess maybe I am just an old manual shift fart from the muscle car era that still likes performance and manual shift. My first car out of college was a 1970 Oldsmobile 442 4-speed manual shift.
So bottom line, I drove a TSX 6-speed and a 5-speed automatic and thought it was two slow. I used to have a 1995 Acura GSR and looked at the RSX-S but I didn't like the red colored gauges. The Acura contender I was seriously looking at as a 6-speed TL w/NAV but I couldn't in my own mind justify spending almost $8,000 more at a significantly higher finance rate.
Okay for the final test, including this occurrence how many times did I mention performance. By the way did I mention that the performance of the TSX is pretty limp.
Good Day,
MidCow
That said, I frankly find the comment that the performance of the TSX is "limp" to be rather ridiculous (not trying to insult you personally -just taking issue with that one particular comment). I have 25,000 miles on mine, and if anything, if feels pretty lively around town. I think that is a particularly silly statement if you are talking about the 6MT version of the TSX (which is fairly quick).
Maybe a better word would be isolated or sophisticated. It felt more like my Lexus IS300 isolated, disconnected and not as sporty feeling.
Yes, the TSX is a fine car, also. I apologize for any offense. But contrary to what poster #271 said, it is not ridiculous to consider acceleration.
Then there is the Borla Cat-Back addition
Cheers,
MidCow
That said, if you felt the TSX was "isolated", I wonder a bit about why you opted for a softer sprung kind of vehicle. I've owned Accord Coupes for years. I loved both of the coupes I had and but a ton of miles on them. But, those cars were not in the least sporty in day-to-day driving. The Accord Coupe is a lot more like a Camry than it is a IS300 (unless, of course, you plan to make some mods).
Honda was getting 120hp/liter from the NA 2.0L inline 4 cyl. in the S2000 from 00-03 (bumped to 2.2L in 04). While not a V configuration, it's still very high hp/liter for a NA engine.
Here's my $.02, having driven neither but having read all the road tests and this forum comments. Yes the TSX is smaller & sportier. You can use regular fuel with a slight drop in performance (per the brochure). You're going to take a pretty big hit on the '03 because obviously depreciation is biggest in the 1st two years.
Is it worth $10,000? Only you can make that judgement. It wouldn't be for me. I would enjoy the Accord for a couple more years then go for used 2005 TSX.
Indy is right. As a TSX owner for about 14 months now, I can attest to the car's qualities. Accords are fine autos (I had one before the TSX), but the fun-to-drive factor is way higher with the Acura, uninformed opinions on this board to the contrary.
The Accord is downright boring by comparison.
I love the car now more than when I bought it.
If sharp handling and a sporty nature are priorities for you, the TSX is a fine choice.
Good luck with the decision.
Johnny
The 6-speed Accord Coupe is sporty and has a lot more power and response than the TSX. A closer comparison is the TL, but I couldn't justify spending about $8,000 more.
Not that the TSX is a bad car, it is just that the Accord Coupe fit my needs and style much better!
YOMV,
MidCow
indydriver - it is possible for a ride to be firm and "well damped" without being stiff - drive a G35 or a BMW 3-series for examples. Honda has never been good at handling/ride compromises. The Accord rides well, but does not offer responsive handling. The TSX handles well, but has a stiff ride.
johnny420 - I agree that the TSX is a very fun car. I just don't think that the folk on this forum who don't agree aren't informed. They're informed - they just have a different opinion than we do.
midnightcowbody- The acceleration on the Accord Coupe is competitive with the TL, and it is far faster than the TSX. But, the handling doens't compare to either vehicle. The Accord is a lot more like a Camry or Altima than it is a TL or TSX (again, assuming you have made no mods). I'm not sure that I'd agree that the Accord Coupe is "sporty" since it is essentially a coupe version of a family car.
my friend has an accord coupe (V6 auto just like mine) so i have a fair amount of road time on the car (as a passenger of course). also, the seats are more to my liking too. tell me again why i got the sedan??? i guess i wanted to blend into the crowd more.
the V6 manual accord coupe has further adjustments to the suspension i believe. still not as agile as the TSX but more on par with the TL.
I have no quibble with folks who have made a concerted effort to go out and test drive a car, more than once, more than twice, and who have then come to the conclusion that a particular cars merits do not suit their needs. That is an individual who is speaking from at least a small positon of knowledge.
My problem is with those who sit at a computer with a sheet of paper in front of them, or an auto mag with a given vehicles performance statistics, and make all manner of proclamations about a particular vehicles attributes, WITHOUT having put in extensive time behind the wheel.
Comments like "the TSX is not a BAD car" strike me as being "uniformed," for lack of a better term, because I know that extensive time behind the wheel of a TSX more than likely will lead one to conclude that it is a fine drivers car. At least for someone who values the qualities that make a car an enthusiasts car.
It's all about balance with the TSX. Not overwhleming horsepower or flashy styling, but synergy, the harmonious workings of all the cars many parts to form a complete driving machine, and experience.
I've learned more about performance driving in the last 14 months than all the years previous. IMO, anybody can gas it from stoplight to stoplight, it's the twisties where the fun and skill comes in to play.
Sorry for the ramble. I realize I'm preaching to the choir a bit here, but I'm pretty passionate about this car, and driving in general. I just needed to make my position clear.
Uncledavid, I've enjoyed reading all of your posts, and those of other car enthusiasts, over the last couple of years. I hope we can continue the dialogue.
Johnny
PS Midcow, enjoy your Accord Coupe. It's a great car. I only hope you got the 6 speed :-). Please, just don't dis the TSX. It, too, is a great car. They're just different.
That said, I never drove the manual version of the coupe. So, that version of the vehicle might handle better. Either way, I doubt that it can reasonably be conceputalized as "sporty." It is basically the two-door version of a soft riding family car. It probably won't match the handling of the TL, let alone be competitive with the TSX.
That said, I understand what you are saying and think you make good points.
Yes "Not overwhleming horsepower and requiring premium gas are my only complaints about the TSX. Otherwise, I would have bought it instead of the Accord. Sorry to come accross as dissing The TSX. Either the Accord or TSX are much much better than most other cars avaialble.
I just put a Borla cat back exhaust, K & N high flow air filter, Sylvania Super Star headlights and Zainoed the black into a deep wet look. Life is good!
Johnny420 hope you are enjoying your TSX. Do you have the 6-speed ? You also have a great car!
Thanks,
MidCow
Sounds like you've made some nice mods to your Coupe. That V6 is definitely sweet.
Alrighty , another manual transmission person! Manual transmission is the only way to go! Honda/Acura makes the smoothest shifting transmissions!
YMMV,
MidCow
If I could get it with the Diesel engine there would be one in my driveway now. CB
Ditto.
Here's the diesel...
http://wallpaper.speedycars.net/honda/Honda_Accord_i-CTDi_European_Version_2004_020.jpg
Don't forget the wagon we don't get here...
http://speedycars.chinacars.com/wallpaper2/honda/Honda%20Accord%20Wagon%202.4T%20European%- 20Version%202003%20-%20003.jpg
Does the TSX absolutely require premium and is there a loss of performance or mpg if you don't?
Is the 22 city 30 highway mileage bear out in people's experience
Good luck. They are all great choices. Honda/Acura makes a very fine manual shifter.
Good Luck,
MidCow
As for price, locally I can get a TSX 05 non-nav are $26.2k. For a v6 Accord non-NAV - 24.2k.
The TL is another choice but is $5 or $6k more and drives a little heavier than either the TSX or Accord.
I love the stick but my wife and I now have a new son so a car we can both drive would be good. This is not a mandatory trade by any stretch BUT might be a nice opportunity to help my dad and get a more flexible car for the family.
I love my i4 Accord but am intrigued by the TSX.
Interior space is best on the Accord. Interior finish is best in the TL. The TSX has the smallest interior, especially in the back seat.
I do appreciate handling more than power. I used to drive a 92 5 speed Prelude which I really liked. But domestic considerations such as auto tranny and interior room are now of greater importance than in the past.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Do what makes your better half happy!
When I briefly became intrigued with the Honda Ridgeline truck I would not have been surprised if her response would have been - "That's great! That truck will come in handy - especially when you MOVE OUT of the house!" :-) Actually she never said that, though I attribute the quote to her since it makes for a better story.
Lets just say driving the Accord till the wheels fall off would be more her speed. It is true that we do not share a love for cars!
So to make the better half happy I would refrain and abstain from car purchases for a longer period than I would independently.
depends on what you want:
having a new car every couple of years, and always driving a good car
or
saving money on transportation, including more frequent repairs and overall more problems once the car gets older
For me, I drive so few miles, it is always age of car that spells the end for my rides. I do all the scheduled maintenance and keep them clean and it tip top shape.
With the 1992 Prelude, it only had 70,000 miles when I sold it in 2002. It ran great and was rust free at the end. There were some failures in switch gear (AC activation switch) and some plastic part failures (like screw cap covers in the door handles).
Of course I am forgetting to mention that the timing belt broke and slagged the head at 60,000 miles, though American Honda paid for half of the repair. Maybe I am proving your point rl81!
I admit I am borderline "chronic car buyer anonymous" material. I think about it ALL the time but pull the trigger every 3 years or so.
Anyway, we got married and are still married many, many years later. And she can drive a standard very well, even though she prefers her Avalon.
Bottom line: Keep the manual tranmission Accord I4 5-speed or pull-the-trigger a get a 6-speed TSX and gently teach your wife how to drive a manual shift car
YMMV,
MidCow -The Manual Shift Man