Mazda RX-8 Problems and Solutions

qbrozen

thought you'd appreciate that.

qbrozen

absolutely they will take it back. trade it in on a nice Mazda6. They'll probably only hit you for a few thousand dollar loss.

but, ya know, you might want to consider that this car is telling you NOW how bad it is to drive any car for just a few minutes each time you start it up rather than telling you 80K miles down the road when it up and dies on you. NO car likes being driven that way. That's what is called severe driving. Without getting brought up to operating temp and without even getting opened up on the highway often enough, any car will be doomed to earlier-than-normal death.

graphicguy

bonnie....check your e-mail....

For those who don't know, qbrozen in responding "tongue in cheek".

While I live in the OH valley, and temps have dropped to the teens, I've never had the starting issue, either. V2 gives a good general procedure to address your issue. Good habit to get into regardless of the type of car you drive.

My dealer didn't give me "the leaflet". But, I know my dealer's master tech since he's also an autox fan and we've met several times at different events. He's been a wealth of knowledge and we share info on a regular basis regarding the RX8. He's not seen any sort of stalling units come through his shop. It is a good idea for any car to bring it to normal operating temps, either by driving it or letting it "warm-up" if you aren't going to drive it distances that will let it get to normal operating temps.

As an aside, I drive my RX8 like I stole it. Never a problem outside of the known ones (which were corrected) in the early North American shipments. If I don't bounce the rev limiter at least once every time I drive, I don't feel like I've appreciated my car.

Indian summer is coming late for me. I may have to wash and wax the car this weekend given it's going to be around 60. Plus, I'm still celebrating the Bengals victory last Sunday.

qbrozen

not everything is tongue-in-cheek.

i am serious about the severe driving part.

but, yeah, ya know I'm just tired of those who pop in here, drop a negative story about what happened to their RX8 (or any car on any of the other boards here, for that matter) and then vanish, never to be heard from again. When it comes to those folks, I don't believe their story for one second. So I figure I'll just keep responding similarly to what I said in post 100. If the poster is for real, then they will come back here and keep us up to date on what is going on. If they are a fake, then at least I had my fun.

It just amazes me how other possible buyers come here and see these negative posts and take all of them for reality without actually reading through to see what happened or if the poster ever came back. So, in reality, the poster has done what they set out to do and falsely deterred someone from buying it.

Don't take this as lashing out against anyone who has real problems with the car. If you do, then please keep everyone here up to date. It could help someone in the future.

graphicguy

qbrozen....you and I are on the same page. I agree with you. There's so much nonsense being posted about the rX8, it's difficult to seperate the truth from the fiction.

bonnie dropped me a personal e-mail asking for advice so I think she's legit.

Fact is, any engine, from any manufacturer, rotary or piston can be "flooded".

docsrx

The responses to your posting from V2pointoh and Gbrozen pretty much match my experience, which I posted earlier this month on this site.
I had one flooding episode after backing out of the garage to clean the car. It started to go back in, but did not start the next day.

There seem to be several variations as to how long to run the car, but since I've madse sure that the engine temp gauge shows some indication of movement, I've not had a second episode.

Glad to hear from V2pointoh that there is a
"Quick Tips" pamphlet available. I'd been old that by Mazda,but some responder to my posting said I was crazy - there was no such thing.

I had my Rx8 in to have snow tires put on yesterday (I live in Wisconsin)and drove a Mazda 6 rental. Could not wait to get the Rx8 back. It's a great handling car! Ihope the snow tires help keep it great car this winter. I expect to drive more carefully, of course, but am determined that it's going to be a year round car.

cheezeboy

Had an interesting thing happen this morning. It was cold out, about 68, (hey that's cold for South Florida!!) and started the car up. All the warning lights came on for a sec (normal) then the "Tire Pressure" warning light came on, stayed on, and the warning sound rang. So I got out, checked all my tires, and found nothing.....I was late for work, so I headed for work....about 3 miles later, the light went off. I then drove to lunch....to the print shop...to a friends place.....leaving the car for long periods of time, and no more warning light....anyone have an idea as to why?

and docsrx....oh my....I left Wisconsin years ago so that I wouldn't have to drive nice cars in the snow any more!! Ya gotta move! LOL!!

bbonnie

I read today on the RX Forum site a tip from a Mazda guy who works on the lots. He said gently rev up to 4000+ RPM, turn off the key while it's reving, and it will not flood. By having it reved, and turning off the key, the rotors spin down while the fuel pump and injectors are shut off. This blows out most of the unneed fuel. He says they move cars on the lot, including the 8s and they rarely get warm, let alone run for five minutes or more. He says they start smoothly every time. I'm not "mechanically inclined." Does this sound reasonable to someone who can verify his theory?

qbrozen

Well, I'll say it again, you should not be shutting off a car when its cold on a regular basis. Once in a blue moon out of necessity I can understand, but this should not be a habit.

As far as that trick, I also don't agree with that. When you're car is cold, it should not be taken above 3K RPMs, let alone 4K. Its just not good for the engine. The oil is not up to temp and, therefore, not flowing as freely as it should and, therefore, you're engine is not getting the proper lubrication to be running at high RPMs. This WILL cause damage to your engine. You may not notice it now, you may not notice it in 6 months, but if you plan to keep this car for a long time, you WILL notice it eventually.

qbrozen

Normally I would say the lower ambient temp obviously let the car think the tire pressure was lower (which, technically, it was due to the denser air at that time). Once the air warmed up and expanded, it gave it the reading it was looking for. HOWEVER, 68 degrees just ain't that cold. So I dunno. that could still be the explanation, but I got a problem with 68 causing that light. You sure you are running high enough pressure? Do you have maybe a 2nd guage you can verify with?

graphicguy

bonnie...what you read makes sense, but given the way you drive, I would think the better solution is to let your car "warm up" for about 5 minutes before you drive off. That way, by the time you drive to your destination (about a mile), you'll have brought the car up to operating temps....no more flooding.

qbrozen....while I agree it's not a good idea to do high revs with a cold engine, 4K revs in the RX8 aren't really that high. I usually don't even shift until I hit at least 4K RPMs...even on a cold engine.

Cheez....gotta agree with q about 68 degrees not being that cold. The low air pressure sensors (on each wheel) will light up if one of your tires doesn't have the same pressure as the other tires. My guess would be one of the tires has marginally less/more pressure than the others. As you drove, and the tires warmed up, the pressure went up. Get a good tire guage (not the "spindle" types which are notoriously inaccurate) with a digital read out or one with a heavy duty analogue reading.

redrpm

Have taken car in for 3rd time to have them address the pinging at midrange and severe cutting out above 6,000. Service tech told me this morning that they'd just gotten out of a department meeting and they were told Mazda IS aware of the run rich ECU problem and IS working on a fix. However it will be at least January before it's released...it obviously has to go thru the whole battery of emissions tests again.

She also said that until then there's nothing they as a service group can do. She said they could try the "brake 20 times in 8 seconds" routine again, but since that didn't work the previous 2 times it was pretty pointless. I said they needed to do it again, to add to my own documentation if nothing else. She agreed.

So her news was bittersweet: it has Mazda's attention, and I think I believe the word that they will work towards an ECU solution...but all owners suffering this issue will continue to have to live with it for a number of months more.

Beginning to think an S2000 would have been the better choice.

qbrozen

well that is interesting news. but why should that be the problem with your car? I mean, if all the ECUs have the same program, then why is not everyones' RX8 having the same problems as yours? I think they are missing something.

graphicguy

Something doesn't sound right. As qbrozen said, all ECUs would be affected. Now, if they're talking about reprogramming the PCM, then there is a TSB about that. Simple procedure!

First I've heard of the cars cutting out at 6K RPM and pinging.

It almost sounds like a bad fuel quality issue.

What octane fuel are you using? I know I've had pinging issues in other cars I've owned due mainly because of running poor quality/low octane fuel. That could also explain the cut outs, too.

redrpm

I follow the dialog on rx8club.com and there have been a fair number of owners experiencing the run rich problem and its various manifestations. In my case (as well as others) it's been the problems above 6,000. First time I took my car in for that problem, another 8 pulled in behind me with same problem (2nd time for him in as many weeks), and two more in their garage for same. I'll admit I've been fishing (here and on other sites) for other owners who are having this issue...and been a bit suprised there haven't been more. There WAS a reflash at port...but you'd think it would result in more owners with the SAME issues. Puzzling.

As for gas...that ain't it (unfortunately). With 1600 miles (and the frequent fill ups due to the poor mileage) I've been thru enough gas sources to rule that out. However that's the best way to describe, or understand, how it acts when it does cut out.

Canzoomer at rx8club has reversed mapped the fuel/air mix part of the program extensively and will be producing a bridge to address the run rich problem, and will also improve the power and mileage...they're all related. And as mentioned above (at least as quoted to me by my dealer) Mazda may step in with a fix of their own in coming months.

FWIW, I've now taken my car to two different dealer's service departments, who have BOTH acknowldged the software problem, and both prescribed the same make-do for now: pump brake pedal 20 times in 8 seconds. Tells me the problem is at least universal enough that various dealerships, and now Mazda, is aware of it.

beacon2

graphicguy, great advice back there in #87. I spoke with the service manager, who has been great up to this point and told him about some suggestions. They just got my 8 back with a replaced charcoal canister. They also replaced some of the air filter housing. I do not know why they did this because they actually did a smoke machine test on mine and another sitting on the lot prior to replacing the part and found mine to be the same as the unit on the lot. I guess they were being pro-active.

Glad to here guys are staying positive on the 8,we all kinda get down when our very own break. But they are wrinkles that can be ironed out.

redrpm

I follow the dialog on rx8club.com and there have been a fair number of owners experiencing the run rich problem and its various manifestations. In my case (as well as others) it's been the problems above 6,000. First time I took my car in for that problem, another 8 pulled in behind me with same problem (2nd time for him in as many weeks), and two more in their garage for same. I'll admit I've been fishing (here and on other sites) for other owners who are having this issue...and been a bit suprised there haven't been more. There WAS a reflash at port...but you'd think it would result in more owners with the SAME issues. Puzzling.

As for gas...that ain't it (unfortunately). With 1600 miles (and the frequent fill ups due to the poor mileage) I've been thru enough gas sources to rule that out. However that's the best way to describe, or understand, how it acts when it does cut out.

Canzoomer at rx8club has reversed mapped the fuel/air mix part of the program extensively and will be producing a bridge to address the run rich problem, and will also improve the power and mileage...they're all related. And as mentioned above (at least as quoted to me by my dealer) Mazda may step in with a fix of their own in coming months.

FWIW, I've now taken my car to two different dealer's service departments, who have BOTH acknowldged the software problem, and both prescribed the same make-do for now: pump brake pedal 20 times in 8 seconds. Tells me the problem is at least universal enough that various dealerships, and now Mazda, is aware of it.

beacon2

Glad to get on a chat line with so many owners and here the amount of cars delivered. My dealer up here has only sold a handful and only rec'd a handful to sell. I think the more that hit the streets the better, just wished my dealers in the area have seen as many vehicles as yours, redrpm...your service dept has seen more cars then my fairly big dealership has delivered total!

cheezeboy

For years I have been trying to convince people 'up North' that 68 degrees IS cold...hmmm....oh well...maybe it's me!...anyway, I have to purchase some other supplies, so I will get a new pressure gauge as well....an update: I drove all day today, same weather conditions, no tire pressure warning light...gremlin?...I think of it as a computer hiccup!!......thanks for the info and advice - as always, you all rock!

graphicguy

Mazda engineers have done a good job in setting up the RENESIS. I've read about the ECU remapping from the outside source.

Personally, I think it will cause problems.
  
But, 3rd party tuners are working overtime to come up with "performance enhancing" parts they can sell to RX8 owners. In general, they're finding some tough going, though. I think that's a testament to Mazda's engineers.

redrpm...I have to disagree. I don't think your issues are at all universal. Matter of fact, as one of the owners that received one of the first batches off the boat, yours is the first I've heard of with the cut out problem.

The only "software" issue I'm aware of is to reprogram the PCM due to false CEL tripping.

If you're cutting out out 6K RPMs, then that most certainly is a fuel issue or at the very least a fuel cut out issue. Maybe just one tank of "dirty" gas which causes gas filter clogging? What does the dealer say about the fuel pump? Is it working properly? What are the codes your dealers get when they hook up to the diagnostic computer?

beacon....I can't for the life of me understand why your dealer just doesn't replace the EVAP unit. I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that would take care of your issue once and for all. Instead, for whatever reason, they are replacing everything but the most obvious. Are they trying to rack up warranty repairs to get some Mazda reimbursement?

Folks, there are nearly 20,000 of these on the road by now. I've been following this car's development for over two years. At least locally, I've participated in just about every gathering of rotary afficianados for the better part of a decade. Aside from a smattering of "quirks" here and there, this is a well turned out, built and engineered car. Is it going to be an MPG champ? No! Did Mazda have to do some last minute "tuning" due to catalytic converters (that may have or may not have been neccessary)? Yes! Mazda chose to error on the side of conservatism, which is OK by me.

I give Mazda credit for stepping to the plate without being forced to (as Toyota had to with the sludge issue or Honda had to with their automatic transmission issue in Odys, Accords and Acuras or that Nissan had to do with their brakes and tire chewing suspensions in both the G and Z cars).

I do believe many dealers have not invested in qualified techs and/or diagnostic equipment to properly take care of the RX8. And that is the root cause of the vast majority of people's issues. Don't discount the fact that there are some folks that own competing makes that love to spread disinformation about the RX8, too.

I suppose it should be considered a "back handed" complement that the RX8 has caused the stir that it has.

I've yet to see a professional review of the car that isn't overwhelmingly positive.

carliker

I said the same thing about how too many Mazda dealerships do not have the rotary educated techs to service the RX-8s. This seems to be the root cause from the problems being discussed on these threads. However, if these problems remain after several months go by, then one will have to wonder if they are more common.

Anyway, I haven't heard about those manufacturers (Toyota, Acura, Honda, etc.) you listed actually being forced to address certain issues. That's to say I'm not aware of those issues other than the Honda mini-van you mentioned. The RX-8 is Mazda's flagship and the car desperately needs to be a success for the company to survive. I would hope that Mazda would step up to the plate since the situation is so critical. I wouldn't give them any special credit for doing so.

graphicguy

I think the amount of positive press the RX8 has received have caused some, for whatever reason, to find ways to "downgrade" the RX8.

I've seen posts in other forums of people who blame the RX8 for some strange things.

One person blamed the RX8 because theirs was rear ended....that's hardly the car's fault. I saw another rant how bad the car was because they didn't like the carpet in the RX8...can't figure that one out.

The most recent has been a couple of people who denegrate the car because they flooded it. Any car can be flooded if started/stopped improperly.

Others have downplayed it because of the HP issue. My 17 year old son put it best when I had the choice to keep my car or sell it back. He said, "....this is the fastest, most thrilling car you've ever owned....how much faster can you possibly want to go?..."

I couldn't disagree with him.

Thousands of automatic transmissions were replaced by Honda in Odys, Acuras and Accords after they started failing. Nissan just announced recalls on the 350Z/G35s. Plus, it turns out that there is a suspension issue with these cars. Nissan has some of their own HP reporting "bugaboos" that they refuse to acknowledge with the 3.5L engine they use in both Nissans and Infinitis.

Toyota fought vehemently not to admit to any sort of issues with their V6s until the uproar became so loud, they were forced to finally admit that their oil filtering wasn't "up to snuff" and caused "sludge" in the engines. They ended up offering extended warranties. Time will tell as these engines pile up the miles how many engines Toyota replaces.

Point is, Mazda stepped up and offered those that pre-ordered RX8s based on "pre-release" figures a very strong resolution for a minor reporting error.

swiftnet

I know some owners have encountered flooding and power loss problems. Flooding and power loss seem to be tied to the way the car is used. I drive the car in the 4k to 8Krpm range, all the time. I never take little 2 minute trips in it. It is not a grocery store kinda' car!
My RX8 has been flawless. I've never had a car that I look forward to driving as much as the RX8, my wife feels the same way and she never thought anything about cars other than "it's transportation". I speak to my Mazda tech every once in a while and he hasn't seen any real problems to date. One car was flooded out of 16 they sold, 4 came in with low oil levels at 2500 miles (rtfm). The HP numbers really don't mean much. 238 Flywheel HP is decent. The car isn't a dog and if we, as drivers, did not notice the deficit in hp when we test drove it, what does it really matter? I drove the 350z, the S2000, the Acura TL and a G35. I chose the RX8 because it felt the best. The Z felt the fastest, but wasn't as comfortable and visibility sucked. The S2000 is the fastest (of the bunch), but is way too loud (inside) and not very comfortable, the G35 wasn't as exciting to drive, although it wasn't a dog either. The Acura was the least exciting to drive but the roomiest. The RX8 had the best balance of performance, handling, looks and driving pleasure.
Speed is relative, I have a street bike, a Suzuki Bandit 1200 that will smoke just about any car out there. The Bandit isn't even near top of the heap in sportbike performance. It is fast enough for street duties. The RX8 is also fast enough for the street and its handling is awesome. How much faster do you really need to go? If you want to fly - get a 1000cc or larger sportbike - it'll smoke any production car out there in everything but top speed.

cheezeboy

well....2 bad things happened. It was bound to happen sooner or later, but it still saddens me. One of my 'lovely' neighbors in my complex decided to not pay attention when they opened their car door and, yes, I have a nice "ding" on the passenger side suicide door. Oh the pain! Then I went to use the driver's side sun visor and it made a slight 'click' sound. I looked at it and noticed it came apart at the seam; right where the plastic visor connects to the metal arm from the ceiling. Just a slight, molded plastic separation, but still bums me.

My question: It has been suggested that I call DENT WIZARD for the ding and I am planning on having the dealer look at the visor. Does that sound good to you all?........

(both the visor and the ding are minor issues, but , man, that ding just irritates me! is it that hard to pay attention when you open you car door???)...[thanks for letting me vent]

golf_nut

Cheese, I had DW fix two dings in my passenger side door last week. Shopping cart must have got me when I was getting a haircut I think.

After 20 minutes and $109 the dings were gone and I was happy again. No paint and no big bill.

mazdafun

I think that was due to an overly constricted line (coolant or oil, I forget which) that was supposed to help get the engine up to an efficient temperature more quickly. This had the unfortunate effect of overheating the engine oil, causing it to sludge, even when owners changed oil & filter every 3000 miles. It took a few years for them to implement a "customer satisfaction program" where they would replace damaged engines if owners complained loudly enough, but only after several thousand owners banded together (using the web) and started getting some attention from the general press (I still have hard-copy printouts somewhere at home about this). They still don't acknowledge the root cause of the issue (which they fixed in their current engines, so shouldn't be an issue anymore) and refuse to accept blame for it. I'd call this behavior disappointing.

bigmike5

I agree with golf nut. These pop a dent guys can be fabulous and quick, and they don't charge an arm and a leg for what is usually a repair that can't be found later. We had some gigantic hail storms in our area a year ago and the various insurance companies sent in 3-4 of these guys to our area. On balance they did great. I also had a couple of door dings on my 300M, and when I got clipped in a parking lot [no note, thank you]and it was in for that repair I decided to see what they could do on the door dings on my own dollar. Guy did several for $75 and you cannot even tell where they were. I now have a tiny door ding on the wife's Eldo and am trying to schedule a day when the ding guy will be at the Caddy dealer to do a few. Now if the Caddy dealer uses them....

graphicguy

While I've never used DW, I've never heard a complaint about them. A neighbor had a large, deep ding in his Navigator. He thought for sure it was a $750 body shop job.

He called DW....$150 later and you can't even tell there was any work done. I was impressed.

cheez...those "dings" are heart breaking. You already know what to do about the sun visor...warranty....

mazdafun...thanks for the "sludge" details. Point I was trying to make, even though Toyota is highly respected for their reliability and high quality, they still wouldn't admit to any problems. At first, they tried to dismiss it as a "poor owner maintenance" issue, instead of a design issue. Honda did the same thing with their transmission issue...pretend like it's not a problem and hope it goes away.

Mazda, in pretty short order, said "whoops, we goofed in stating the HP...Minor issue, but here's $500 and free maintenance."

They didn't play the "let's sweep this under the carpet" game like some of their more well regarded auto manufacturering bretheren did.

While it shouldn't have happened in the first place, they stepped up, admitted their error and took care of their customers.

What's Nissan done with their HP discrepancies? Notice they don't even acknowledge them.

carliker

I'm glad someone brought this up since it is one of the most irritating and disappointing things to happen to a brand new car - the door ding. How does the Dent Wizard service work? I would be interested in this if it ever happened (hopefully never). Some people are just careless and have no appreciation for automobiles. I see this at the grocery store parking lots most often. I seldom took my car to the grocery store (went with someone else) or I would park really far away. It's funny that no matter where you park, there is always an idiot that will find the space next to you irresistable. I always look for the parking space next to another car which the owner is just as concerned about the appearance of his/her vehicle as I am.

 Cheeseboy - I think you are showing extreme control for not going off on your neighbor. That would have made me so angry. Dings really bother me and I feel awful after just finding one -- even if I had the vehicle for awhile. This Dent Wizard seems like a good idea and reasonable for the peace of mind it gives car owners.

Graphic - Every manufacturer has recalls and is obligated to take care of them in a decent amount of time. I don't know about the Toyota situation enough to have an opinion on that, but being upfront about a mishap is hardly going over and beyond what is expected from a car manufacturer. I would hope Mazda would step up to the plate -- especially when they aren't as reconized for resale and reliability as Toyotas and Hondas. It's for their own good that they control even rumors of problems for the sake of reputation. It's hard to say if anything would have been mentioned or protested if Mazda decided against disclosing the HP issue. There doesn't seem to be a group forming or suing Nissan because of a misrepresented amount of HP. For all owners of concern, the HP is 287, and therefore without actual evidence from various reliable sources, the HP is 287. I have no ties to Nissan, just trying to be objective. I felt that the RX-8 lost some of its integrity as a sports car when I heard of the HP error. It wasn't the amount of HP, but the timing of it. It was obviously serious enough for Mazda to offer a buyback. If it wasn't, why would they feel obligated to do so? Like you graphic, I waited for several months on pre-order.

golf_nut

You drive up to DW. They look at the damage, give you an estimate and fix it while you wait.

I went and had lunch while they fixed mine. I had two small dings in the door and it was done before I got back from McD's!

I asked the tech to show me how he fixed it so quickly and he showed me the tool he used. Didn't even need to take the door panel off to do the job. I was happy, paid the bill and zoomed off!

dtran2149

I had a guy fix two dents on my old Miata. The first one was in the driver wall. The second one was in the rear quarter panel. He had multiple tools that are like various lengths of rod that look like the dipstick in the engine (metal rod with a slight crook or bend at the end). He would find easy entry points into the panels for his rods and insert one (sometimes two) at a time together. He would slowly knead out via both back-and-forth motions as well as in-and-out motions on the back side of the panels till the dents became creases and then became flat again. It took about 15 minutes per panel and he charged me $60 for two dents. He has all the tools in his car (including the a large lighting panel to illuminate the work area). It's definitely worth it to visit one. I have that contact in Dallas if anyone is interested.

graphicguy

carliker...I agree and I disagree....sort of (how's that for being a "fence sitter"?).

While I do think car manufacturers owe their customer base correct info, anyone can manipulate the numbers to make them look how they want them to look. Using your Nissan HP example...there has been plenty of dynos and circumstantial evidence that shows it would be next to impossible for the same 3.5L V6 that Nissan uses in so many venicles to have such a disparity regarding HP ratings just by changing the timing and/or exhaust plumbing. A year ago, when the 350Z was released, many made an issue about it. Nissan ignored it and and the issue went away.

Where I disagree with you is that Mazda made what amounts to a "clerical error" with the HP that had no bearing whatsoever on its performance. If they had followed the footsteps of all the other car companies, they could have said the car was "within spec" and rode the storm for a few months until the issue went away.

They took the opposite tact...they admited to the error and offered us owners some very tangible solutions....give the car back and we'll give you your money back, or keep the car and we'll give you $500 and free maintenance for your trouble. To me, that's unheard of in the auto industry.

If anything, their credability went up when they did that....not down. Regardless of resale figures of any manufacturer, Mazda is putting out some excellent vehicles these days.

I can't tell you the amount of "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" I've gotten from some well regarded brands (a hint--it's the ultimate driving machine) that have jerked me around in dealing with problems...pretending like they don't exist. I actually had my ultimate driving machine bought back under the lemon law. Now that was a car that had great resale value, got all the great trade rag write-ups, but ended up being worthless to me.

Go ask the guy who had to have his auto tranny replace by Honda how he feels about his Accord? Do you think he/she cares one iota about his resale?

Given how Mazda has treated me, I can safely say that they will be at the top of my list when I'm looking to buy another car.

carliker

graphic - I just wish I had a relationship like you have with your local dealership. They seem to genuinely take care of you after you buy the car -- just not before it. My experience has really soured my interest in cars all together. Most of which had more to do with the salespeople (or dealership) and not the cars I was interested in buying. The stereotype will not change soon concerning car salespeople. An actual decent one is still an exception rather than the rule.

graphicguy

Can't disagree with you about "good/bad dealers". They can make all the difference in the world with your ownership experience.

As bad as Saturns are, they typically have great owner satisfaction based on how well their dealers treat their customers.

If you have an honest dealer that doesn't jerk you around in the service dept, you won't mind a couple of glitches here and there.

Take another dealer that tries to downplay your "problems" and take two-three trips to fix the same problems, I don't care if you're driving a Rolls, you are not going to be happy camper.

My Mazda dealer has me in and out of the service dept in less than 30 minutes. I don't care if it's a simple oil change or a warranty issue. I'm either driving my car home serviced or they are putting me in a loaner car to use until it's fixed. There is no "well we can't diagnose your problem yet....or, your issue isn't covered under warranty...or, can you bring it back another time."

I'm either in my car that's been correctly serviced or driving their car while they fix mine, one way or the other with no hassle.

cheezeboy

WOW!...I am both glad and sad that I brought this subject up....so helpful and insiteful but saddens me to learn that you all have been 'ding'ed....I will, after Thanksgiving, seek out a DW for a fix!

on a cleaner note, what do you all use to wash your RX8's?...or any car for that matter?....an ex-detailing guy suggested I use Meguiar's Soft Wash Gel for the car and Meguiar's Hot Rims All Wheel Cleaner for the wheels. And then just a gentle soap and water mix for the interior surfaces. Any suggestions for the tires themselves? oh, and he made me buy an ABSORBER towel - holy cow does that thing suck up the water!!....pretty darn cool, I think, then again I am easily distracted by shiny objects and such!!

bigmike5

For what it is worth. I have had my 300M for 5.5 years now and the paint still looks great. I wash the car twice a week usually. I only go thru the touchless car wash, never the kind with brushes or rollers. If I can do it by hand, I do. I use a bucket and a squeeze of Dawn dishwasher liquid, which is very mild stuff. On the racing stripes and pin stripes I use a carefully applied and buffed off vinyl conditioner about twice a year. Currently, I am using some stuff I got from Autotrim Design who put the striping and window graphics on about 2 years ago. It also is holding up well. On the wheels, which are chrome Razorstars that were factory equipment, and still look like brand new, I use the bucket with warm water and the Dawn again. While I sometimes miss a week washing the car, I always do the wheels twice a week. I finish the wheels off with Armor All window cleaner. It doesn't work all that great on the windows, but it does a great job on the chrome wheels, and it leaves a mirror like shine. I think the way I have handled the care of my M would work just as well with the RX-8. Good luck.

graphicguy

You might want to look here....

www.zainobros.com

I'm a big proponent of using Zaino.

I would only use Dawn once to wash. Dawn has a high alkyline content which strips your car's surface of all the "stuff" that's already on the there from the dealer and any old wax. Once you do that, here's my procedure....

--initial Dawn wash (do this only once)
--dry with 100% cotton towels or high quality microfiber towers (anything else with polyester threads running through will scratch your clear coat, which over time will cause swirling)
--optional, but highly recommended, clay your car
--rewash with Zaino Z7 car wash
--apply Zaino Z2/ZFX mixture very thinly
--wipe off wax
--optional, but again highly recommended, apply and remove Z6 shine enhancer

You'll have one of the shiniest, longest lasting finishes you can get. The good news is, the more layers of Zaino you use, the shinier your car will get. Plus, maintenance of that shine is a breeze.

bigmike5

I also agree with graphicguy's approach. I don't use the Zaino products only because Sal told me [when I e-mailed em to ask] that the stiping I had could absorb some of the Zaino material if it came in contact with the stripes and that would not be good. At my age, I don't have the patience to be so careful in the application of the product especially with a 8" and 1" stripe side by side the entire length of the car and pin striping on the doors, so I opt not to use the Zaino program. Having said that, the Zaino stuff is rated at the top by all the 300Mers who have used it. It is a really good product line for all accounts.

mazdafun

I'm with you. I like the way Mazda handled the lowering of the Miata and RX-8 engines' outputs, as opposed to Nissan's of theirs. Let's see how MNAO handles the issues with some 6 made at the AAI plant. They've made some effort, but it appears that more 6 may be affected than they state in their TSB. However, someone from MNAO has already responded on the 6 boards saying they will adjust the scope if they get information from their dealers that more vehicles are affected (so they encouraged owners to report any related issues ASAP to their dealers).

Toyota and Mistubishi have lost a lot of credibility in my eye from their trying to cover faults in their products, even though I think Toyota has fixed their engine sludge issue. I'd give Mitsubishi another 3-5 years to prove they're honest about reporting problems with their vehicles, instead of trying to cover them up (they were caught doing this a few years back...it was quite big news in Japan, with raids on Mistubishi corporate offices etc...it made a small splash here).

graphicguy

I loath having to take my car through the "touchless" places. But those of us who live in winter climates don't have much choice when it's 35 degrees outside.

I put plenty of Zaino on in the spring, summer and fall. It carries me through 3-4 "touchless" washes during winter months. Come spring, I do a complete Zaino detail and my finish comes back to new again.

audia8q

if everyone paid full MSRP like saturn...I bet mazda would have similar customer satisfaction ratings...anytime you haggle money there is going to be a CSI issue brewing. Remove haggling over money out of a sale and now the quality of the dealership becomes a strong point....not price....Many consumer would buy a car from charles manson if he could save them $25. over the quality dealership.

cheezeboy

I can see it now....."The Charlie" Sport Package!... Comes with special decal 'tatoos'..black shag carpet...concealed weapons nooks......and a really loud 22 speaker sound system that plays only his songs!!...sign me up!.....

oh...I used the Mequiare's Soft Wash Gel....not only did it work well (except for one thing - see below), but it had lots of suds and, I am embarrassed to say, smelled great!.....I think the people watching me 'smell' my RX8 must think I've lost it.....But she looked great for Thanksgiving dinner at the Aunt's house!

one concern - I've been trying to get the 'glue' from the protective plastic wrap, off my car....in a few spots, there are little, thin lines of that sticky adheasive. Each time I wash her I try to gently remove the goo, but it sticks like crazy. Any suggestions? most of the goo is located close to the window edges, not really noticable, but still bothers me......

graphicguy

I do think a major part of owner satisfaction begins with the sales process (Saturn...no negotiations, everyone pays the same price, but recently, it does seem they are doing some "stealth" discounting). Once the papers are signed for that new car, then it's the service dept's reponsibility to keep that customer happy.

I do see your point. If someone isn't happy with their price (I'm sure you run into the "grinders" who will never be satisfied with the price, regardless how good the deal is), they are probably more likely to be unhappy with their car, regardless of how good the car is in reality.

swiftnet

Peanut butter works great to get the remnants of stickers or tape off of your car or motorcycle.
Put it on with your finger, let it sit for a few minutes and use a terry cloth to remove it and the tape/sticker glue.

dcaslin

I dropped my car off a few weeks ago to get my check engine light fixed. I left a note on the service request referring the CEL TSB that Mazda released, given that my car was in the VIN range. Picked it up the next day with this description of the fix from the service dept:

"803 CODE 2402 IN SYS TEST EVAP SYS CHECK HOSES AND LINES FOUND NO DEFECT CLEAR CODE TEST DRIVE"

Now 1 week later, the light's back on again. I'm gonna presume this is because they just reset the PCM rather than upgrading it as described in the TSB.

Anyway, I'll be taking it back again this week and hoping they get it right this time. This isn't an encouraging start to my relationship with this service department. Does anyone here know of any Mazda dealerships that they would recommend in the Baltimore area?

carliker

I don't think customer satisfaction is mostly based on how good of a deal you can get for a car. It's how you are treated and how you get to that price without having to make a mission out of it. People who buy Saturns are suckers. Anybody can pay list price for any car out there. That Saturn philosophy wouldn't even exist at all if salespeople knew how to treat people in a respectful manner and didn't have that bs reputation. I would find it rather patronizing anyway if a bunch of dealers surrounded me and started clapping after I bought a car (like Saturn dealers do). What? Did I just accomplish a life long goal of mine? Nonsense! That's an easy out for any salesperson to say that haggling for a buying price is actually what determines customer satisfaction. I'm aware of those lethal car hunters that don't want a dealer to make a dime, but I'm not one of them. I know everyone has to make a buck. All I want from a car salesperson is to give it to me straight. Let me tell you what I want, give me the lowest price quote you are allowed, and let me decide on it. Simple. None of this...ten times back to the sales manager, none of this...last minute add-ons (ex. rust protection plan) to the deal after agreeing on a price, no stories about how rare a certain kind of a car is. Either you can sell a car at my price or not. And please, know at least as much about your vehicles as I do.

yosarian

I just picked my new RX-8. And I owe a debt of gratitude to all the good folks who posted here.

I wasn't faced with a lot of choices, it was mainly between a used BMW (where I work) and the RX-8. All of the postings, both of positive and negative experiences, helped me make up my mind. And, oh yeah, the test drive helped a bit too.

So far it's been absolutely flawless -- every light, switch, gauge (even the silly oil pressure gauge) work perfectly. And I was lucky enough to get a car whose VIN fell outside the range of those affected by the service bulletins for the engine oil pan baffles, and the check engine light. Cooll

If anything happens that's worth posting, I'll be back. Till then yeehaw!

graphicguy

...congrats...."enjoy the ride".

clowngirl

Bought my titanium gray RX-8 in July of 2003 and experienced the dreaded "engine flooded-won't start" dilemma. Had to have the car towed last Friday and just picked up my -8 this afternoon. Dealer had to replace all spark plugs ($70 each), re programmed PCM to 188881-K (per TSB 01-024/03). This experience had left a bad taste in my mouth until I started reading a lot more about rotary engines & this RX-8 bulletin board. My husband is the real culprit since he was the last one in my RX-8 before it "wouldn't start" on Friday. Turns out that he had backed the car out of the garage (without letting it warm up), quickly shut it off to do some work in the garage, then turned it on (w/o warm up), pulled it back in the garage and turned the car off. The next day I go to drive it and it would not turn over. The weather has gotten down into the 30's at night the last week so that might also be a factor. Lesson learned: do not drive RX-8 until it the engine is warmed up! And a MUST if only driving a very short distance. Knock on wood that this doesn't happen again because it was a major inconvenience with holiday/family get together. Also really looks bad on Mazda (gee, brand new hot sports car getting towed back to the dealership... NICE!!)

cheezeboy

ok...it's happened twice now...the "Low Tire Pressure" light and alarm came on again. And after 5 miles of driving, it went off. I got out and checked the tires again - nothing abnormal. Unlike last time, where the temperature got down to 'cold' (70 degreesish!), this time it was an 'unbearable' 55 degrees!!!..[hey - that's bad for us wimpy Floridians]...so I am thinking that the cold has something to do with this little glitch...must be the contraction of air, rubber, sensor parts, etc...I will let the dealer know!....just an update for those who are following along!