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I live in Calgary and would like to contact you for info on a new Mazda. My email is jhopps@telus.net. Serious interest!
Thanks Hoppy1
For the letter to be effective, it's important that it be sent by courier or registered mail and that you have a receipt for it. Also, the "DO GOVERN YOURSELVES ACCORDINGLY" line, in addition to be in all caps, is also bolded for added effect.
Have fun!
===
Montreal, October 31, 2007
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Transport Canada
330 Sparks Street
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0N5
Registrar of Imported Vehicles
405 The West Mall
Toronto, Ontario
M9C 5K7
Sir/Madam:
I am the attorney for [removed]. My clients intend to import into Canada a 2008 model Toyota Prius purchased in the United States. They have been told by representatives of both Transport Canada (TC) and the Registrar of Imported Vehicles (RIV) that they will not be able to import and register this vehicle in Canada because Toyota’s 2008 models do not appear on the list of admissible vehicles published on the RIV and TC web sites.
TC’s policy is to not list a vehicle on the admissible list unless they have received a letter from the manufacturer stating that the vehicle in questions meets Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (CMVSS). My clients have contacted Toyota USA and they have stated flatly that they refuse to supply such a letter as their policy is to restrict exports of their vehicles from the US into Canada.
The responsibility of RIV and TC with respect to the import process is limited to ensuring compliance with Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (CMVSS). My clients submit that the 2008 Toyota Prius meets all Canadian standards with the exception of Daytime Running Lights, which is a simple modification. The vehicle they intend to import is otherwise identical to those being sold by Canadian Toyota dealers in Canada.
This letter constitutes formal notice that you are required to either:
a) allow my clients to import and register a 2008 model Toyota Prius in Canada, or
b) specify in writing, within three businesss days of your receipt of this letter, the specific Canadian safety standards that the 2008 Prius does not meet.
Otherwise, legal action may be taken against you immediately and without further notice. Be advised that such action may include a demand for reimbursement of legal fees, costs incurred by my clients due to your delay or refusal to allow the import and registration, as well as punitive and exemplary damages.
DO GOVERN YOURSELVES ACCORDINGLY.
Signature
Your address and telephone number
I had planned a trip shortly to a US dealer to purchase a Saturn Sky. The dealer tells me that it has Onstar, lojack, and the electronic key to prevent starting.
Does anyone know if the 2008 Saturn Sky made after Sept1 meets the guideline or if it doesn't can an after market immobilizer be installed.
Do you think they don't have legal council prior to publishing the list?
I was told the same by RIV on thursday, but not given the letter
could you please forward it to me?
email is clintb at gmail.com
I had an opportunity to cancel my sale but proceeded with shipping after the RIV promised me an exemption would be guaranteed (not probable)
have the conversation on a recorded line.... will have to make sure i save that recording!
thanks
Brilliant letter, I copied it to Red Flag deals. A few thousand of these should wake up the Minister of Transport.
Vive le Quebec brilliant.
Actually, an easier way is to not start the registration/titling paperwork in the first place. I can't swear by it in Washington, but I paid a visit to the Oregon DMV website prior to my relative buying me my '07 Tundra and it says a purchaser has the option to either A) have the dealership start the registration/titling process prior to the vehicle leaving the lot (in which case you wait for the title to come through from the state) or
As an aside, I spent the better part of the morning chasing my tail trying to get answers on how I can get my wife's '08 CR-V across the line. We ordered it in mid-October and put a deposit down then. It is supposed to arrive at the dealership by the end of next week and we're basically up the creek. Started with RIV and asked about an exemption letter as we have money down on the vehicle prior to Nov.1 and, after waiting on the line on hold hold for 20 minutes, was told they were no longer issuing the letters as of today with the reasoning that CBSA wasn't letting the vehicles through even with the exemption. My next call was to a contact with CBSA at the local border crossing and told her the story I had been given. She called BS and said they were allowing the vehicles in with the exemption. Called RIV back and, again after waiting almost 1/2 hour to get through, explained to a different representative (notice how you never manage to get the same person twice? No accountability for BS answers that way) what I had previously been told and the response I got from CBSA. The new rep said the letters weren't being issued as of today because they had been instructed by TC not to give them out (see a trend here? "Pass the buck" is the name of the game). She said she couldn't help me (imagine that, eh?) but gave me a phone number at TC to call. Called the TC number and got busy signal after busy signal until finally it rang me through..... only to get put through to a voice mail box which, now wait for it...., was FULL. Talk about the run around. Waiting patiently for some new news next week after the holiday now - hopefully someone pulls their heads out of their arses and gets this fixed.
I checked with th Minnesota DMV and they give a 31 day Non-resident temporary permit to allow you to move vehicle from state to place of residence.
This will be great if I can get dealer to sell to me.
Its worth a shot and will certainly save time and money.
Thanks
I have to get an aftermarket immobilizer put on after I cross the border. RIV says that at the inspection a recognized aftermarket system that meets the intent of CMVSS 114 has been installed.
See my earlier post about Mastergard.com.
I am going to the border in a couple of hours and I will get the story as to whether I can do this.
Tom
I'm not sure what MSO means.
Thanks
Tell your US dealer you will give him the check once u have the plates on, or arrange some kind of deal to flip it back if you fail. Smart dealers in the US would offer this service...
Then take pictures for the border folks ( if required) when I went Thru they didn't need to inspect or look at the car... Just give me form 1 and I will pay the GST when I pass thru.... with My form 2.
Just a thought
Collin999
Got my plates the other day,but it could be the new year before the title comes.Anyone know if its legal for a US citizen to deliver my Rav across the border.I would feel better if the car was at least in my garage
Good luck with the CRV,that was my other choice
Chevy Aveo
Cadillac Catera
Saturn Astra
Pontiac Vibe
This has to do with CMVSS 114, which is the standard set by Transport Canada for the manufacturer's electronic immobilization system in a vehicle (the car alarm).
The Canadian government has very specific requirements on how long it will take to physically get to vehicle ECU's so that they cannot be modified or replaced to steal the vehicle. There are some weird aspects to the rules though that make them a pain for the design engineers, as well as the service centers who might have to remove parts that were intentionally designed to be difficult to remove easily and quickly.
GM has made all 2008 US cars and trucks, with the exception of the ones listed above, with a different security system then the 2008 cars and trucks in Canada.
To me, it doesn't make any sense. This is an insurance issue, not a safety issue so Transport Canada really shouldn't be involved.
It does, however, provide GM with a great way to get nearly all of their 2008 US cars and trucks on the RIV inadmissibility list.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety...n/VAFUS/list/VAFUS.pdf
I expect the other car brands will follow this method of making it impossible to bring up new cars and trucks to Canada, forcing anyone who wants to by a new vehicle to fork out the additional cost that Canadian dealer are told to list their cars at.
is the following headline,
Auto-Industry exports
record September gain.
Exports 37.7 Billion
Imports 35.1 B
SO WHY THE BARRIER ????,
I believe that it is simply the manufacturers telling TC that their US vehicles do not meet Canadian safety standards, with no explanation...while they probably do meet the standards!
If it was simply the immobilizer that was stopping people from importing vehicles, there would be no problem as we could just fork out the extra $500 and get an aftermarket one installed. Whether it voids the warranty or nor is another story...
Paul
Unless they just want to stop new vehicles from being imported to Canada.
I Paid $24800. US for the Sienna LE (about $23,800 cdn) and it has all the same features as the Canadian LE model which retails for $38,750.cdn. Even with a lot of negotiating it'll be tough to match that in canada.
Since Transport Canada would now be requiring all new vehicles to contain immobilization in one form or another (setting aside the degree of effectiveness), why bear the cost of an in-house expert?
A resonable person would conclude that this also means we shouldn't hold our breath that:
a) IBC would add any more aftermarket systems that it recognizes
b) IBC would continue recognizing the aftermarket systems it already recognizes
c) We'd be hearing anything substantal from IBC on CMVSS 114 and the way Transport Canada/RIV is 'administering' matters...
Yup, I'd suspect this entire fiasco is at the feet of our Feds...
The plot sickens...
what does the Oct Listing say about 2008 Acura MDX?
It was under the MPV section... i thought it said "all are admissable"
could you send me the Oct VAFUS? clintb at gmail.com
.
I checked at Cdn Customs and the RAV4 Limited can pass thru Customs and be fixed with an aftermarket immobilizer before the final Inspection. Mastergard also said the Warranty would not be affected.
I also ordered a Remote Start from the Dealer. Mastergard said Cancel it as it would create problems. So I'm having it installed at the time of installation by the Certified Mastergard technicians. In my case it is at CAA.
Customs also told me that they had a vehicle come thru with an aftermarket immobilizer that was installed in the US and it met the standard. Don't know who did this but a search should find it.
I'll make another call and question them on the MSO.
Do you still have to wait until the State gives you Title before you go RIV ?
I'm still not sure how this works.
Once you have title you just have to go thru the RIV hoops to change the Registration to Canadian and get your plates. Am I correct in this?
Wednesday: found out about letters of exception, or amnesty. Called RIV and was told no problem there's a grace period, you don't need a letter. Called RIV 6 more times and had my brother in law do the same and collected names. Every one said amnesty or grace period. I asked numerous times for a letter and was told they'd fax one to me - never recieved.
Thursday:Picked up the 2008 Sienna XLE AWD Limited and drove to the border, arrived late, access denied. Customs refused to recognize RIV's authority and knew nothing about an amnesty - inadmissible and turned back.
Friday: morning shift at customs refused to call RIV and called TC. TC knew nothing about amnesty. Access denied. They got pushy and threatened to impound the vehicle. They would not call RIV. I held my ground and appealed for empathy (not a customs strong point). My brother in law and I started calling RIV on the pay phone since the border does not have cell coverage!!! People at RIV stated grace period, customs agent wouldn't walk across the desk to the pay phone. He wanted a direct line - they couldn't give one because they're an inbound call centre. Asked them to fax the letter as the agent finally said he would accept only something in writing. RIV agent wanted to email, customs agent didn't have email - I'm on the edge of a stroke but with customs you can never let them see you sweat - so nice as pie I'm eating it up talking to customs and RIV agents who can't understand why they can't talk directly - finally I get the RIV supervisor and he tells me he'll get me the letter and fax it to the border in 20 minutes. After a lot of persuading he gives me his direct line which I provide to the agent. The agent then calls him and gets the verbal but he still insists on something in writing. 2 hours go by, I'm now at the border for 12 hours, still nothing. The border superintendent is nice and I seem to be winning over the customs agents with my staying power. Still no letter. I call RIV, the supervisor won't take my call. The story gets scary now - the agent on the line tells me that TC has put a stop to the amnesty and that there's a big anouncement on Tuesday that inadmissible cars will not be allowed in no matter what. I die inside a little bit but the customs agents are watching so I hold it together and pretend it's all good - but I'm sick. I gently demand to speak to the supervisor but he won't take the call even though I hear him in the back ground. I refuse to get off the phone or be transferred and I guess the agent could hear the pain in my voice and she showed empathy. They are telling her that the letter was faxed twice and if the border didn't get it then they can't fax it again because TC has tied their hands. I plead and reason and plead. Finally the RIV guy goes out on a limb and faxes the amnesty letter to customs for me. The customs guys finally accepts RIV's authority and at 13 hours I'm sure they wanted me gone so they stamp my form 1 and away I go. I a copy of the letter and the cover sheet (since the letter is so generic) just to prove that RIV sent it to me and it's not a forgery.
About 2 hours later the phone rings and it's the superintendent at the border telling me we should not have gotten through and that they have been slapped by TC for letting me through.
About an hour later some guy at TC calls and essentially says good luck RIV'ing the van and that 99.9% it's going to have to go back to the U.S. - I have no idea who the guy is but he's mad the vehicle made it across.
Now I'm scared, even though I finally have the letter from RIV and a stamped form 1 from customs. I fax my recall letter my form 1 my amnesty letter, and my bill of sale.
Saturday: RIV has my payment but have not processed my forms. They don't process on the weekend. No sleep for me.
So here I am, I have the van in the country, I have a stamped form 1, I have a letter of amnesty from RIV but I still feel anxious. I have a feeling letter or no letter RIV is waiting for the TC announcement Tuesday to do anything. They tell me they are processing the forms on Monday so I guess I'm back to pleading and reasoning and pleading some more. This is crazy but I don't have a good feeling about the impending TC anouncement - I think it will be very bad. Has anyone called for a letter from RIV recently or called and asked about amnesty? I'd call myself but I've called so many times I've probably spoken to every agent. I'm saving my calls and my strength for Monday's battle.