Lexus ES 300/ES 330 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • wood3585wood3585 Member Posts: 7
    You are absouletly right. By the way, after doing the numbers, after all fees and taxes are included, I get 93%. Before all that stuff is added, I'm getting about 90%, which appears to be within the range of what people have been getting. Any way, thanks for your advise and opinion. It's been very helpful to me.
  • tankslovertankslover Member Posts: 1
    Just Drive an ES 330 with NAV and without the ML. MSRP was 36384.00. Actual price paid was 32423, right on the invoice. Also $75 accessories as a gift. Is this a good deal?
  • charliegooddogcharliegooddog Member Posts: 11
    It sounds as though you negotiated a great deal. What is the name of the dealer and where is the dealer located? I am just starting to look for an ES 330 and the local dealer in Bellevue, WA seems reluctant to come down anywhere near factory invoice. Perhaps the problem is that I want the Black Garnet color and the dealer does not have that color on the lot.
  • charliegooddogcharliegooddog Member Posts: 11
    I thought that it might be helpful to let people know what some dealers in Washington State are doing. The State imposes a Retail Sales Tax on the purchaser of an automobile. The State also imposes a smaller Business and Occupation Tax ON THE SELLER. Some dealers in Washngton try to charge the B & O tax to buyers as a separate line item. This is an outrageous deception and to the best of my knowledge no other industry has the nerve to attempt to charge B & O tax to a buyer as an additional line item charge. I encountered this tactic several days ago when my wife purchased an automobile (not a Lexus). We walked out of the dealership and the salesman ran after us to let us know that they would agree to delete the B & O tax.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    which is about the mid range of deals that folks on this site have been posting for the past couple of months. Also, the vast majority of folks have been getting around 89%

    The lowest has been about 88% and the highest was about 93%, which was very, very high.

    You got an average deal, I'd say.

    I would not worry about invoice or dealer charges, so long as I received about 88 - 90% MSRP not including government charges, like tax, license, etc, which is going to vary by state and locality.
  • pierapiera Member Posts: 8
    I'm moving to Sacramento CA in June, and will buy a new ES330 then . Here are some questions:

    1,Does the NAV system need subscription fees (yearly paid? and How much?)? Some guy told me if I drive to different city, i have to download the local map which charge a fee as well. (sounds ridiculous to me).

    2,any experience in Sacramento/Bay area?

    3,If I only want a base model without any option, is it likely for me to get a deal around 88~89%MSRP?

    4,Does Lexus has a seasonal incentive/discount? If it does, when is the best time to buy? One guy told me ES will start to sell 2005 model in October, ---but I would not wait that long.

    Any answer or advise will be appreciated.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    piera,

    The NAV system requires no monthly/yearly fees and the entire US is located on the DVD discs that come with the vehicle. Of course not every single street is in the system. The only thing you have to pay for is system upgrades when they come out if you want to upgrade the DVD discs.

    "3,If I only want a base model without any option, is it likely for me to get a deal around 88~89%MSRP? "

    First of all, good luck finding a ES330 with no options. The produce very few base ES330's.

    "4,Does Lexus has a seasonal incentive/discount? If it does, when is the best time to buy? One guy told me ES will start to sell 2005 model in October, ---but I would not wait that long."

    For the best deals on 2004's you would need to wait until August or September of 2004. But even right now they are giving good deals on ES330's. The entry level luxury segment is extremely competitive currently, and you can generally buy a ES330 for less than $1K over invoice.
  • charliegooddogcharliegooddog Member Posts: 11
    A local Lexus dealer has shown me the Factory Invoice on an ES 330. The invoice totals up the Base Price, Destination Fee and Options and shows that sum as a subtotal. In addition to the subtotal the dealer has added a $397 Lexus Dealer Advertising charge. I offered the dealer $500 over the Invoice not including the LDA add on charge. By the way, the price that I offered is 89.45% of the MSRP, which seems in line with current prices that other Town Hall members have achieved.

    Is the LDA a legitimate part of the Factory Invoice, or is the dealer just attempting to justify a higher price than that which I have agreed to pay?
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    ... I think for the purposes of this board, we should decide which is a better benchmark by which to compare prices.

    First of all, where does one obtain invoice? Is invoice listed anywhere on the sticker?

    How much can the dealer cludge the invoice?

    I know that invoice is supposed to be kind of a rock bottom price, but what the heck is it really, and does it have dependency on geographical region of the dealership?

    I am very much interested in hearing debates on why invoice is a better comparison basis than MSRP and am open to changing my opinion.

    I like MSRP because it does not vary by geographical region, is set by the manufacturer, is posted for all to see in a format that is retainable by the buyer, and can't be cludged by the dealer.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    .. the dealer can add any fees in that he/she wants to, and they can even charge as much as they can get for a car.

    That being said, the dealer is trying to welch on your original deal, I'd say.

    For an apples to apples comparison with what other members have reported receiving, you would get about 89% of MSRP including whatever that LDA is.

    I think that MSRP comparison should include everything except taxes and fees that have to be paid by the BUYER (not the dealer) to a government entity.
  • charliegooddogcharliegooddog Member Posts: 11
    Thanks to atoews for the many informative posts on this Board.

    I agree that for the reasons you state, in most cases, a percent of MSRP is the better way to go. Unfortunately, in my case I was the one who initially offered a flat dollar markup over Invoice. Please note that the Dealer did not try to welch on an original deal. We had no original deal because the dealer never accepted my proposal of $500 over Invoice.

    However, a case can be made for using a markup over Invoice where the percentage MSRP markup on options is higher than the percentage MSRP markup on the vehicle base price. For example, chrome wheels are marked up 100% Invoice is $850 and MSRP is $1,700.

    In my situation I have decided that the best way for me to go is to purchase a car in California where I can buy at 89% of MSRP and have the car trucked up to Kirkland, WA where I live. I have talked with autopurchaseconsultants.com, an internet auto broker, who may assist me with the transaction for only a $100 fee. Since I am not in iminient need of a new car, I think that I might special order exactly what I want so that I can eliminate some of the options that I will never use such as heated seats (I have them in my present car and never bother to use them) and adjustable foot pedals (something that I can live without). Eliminating the heated seats and adjustable pedals will pay for almost all of the shipping costs. The California dealer won't have to worry about flooring charges and can retain all of the dealer holdback. After shipping costs I will still save about $1,500 over the best verbal offer that I have received from the dealer. It seems to me to be a win -win situation. I don't understand why the local dealer won't at least match the deal. If I was the dealer I would figure that a smaller than anticipated profit is better than no profit at all and it would make sense to me to keep my local buyers happy. This is paricularly the case where a car is special ordered. I guess that's why I don't sell cars for a living.

    I just won't feel good about buying the car from my local dealer if I know that I can buy the car somewhere else for a savings of $1,500.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    and you are correct. I have noticed that the dealers "play around" a lot with chrome wheels, for example. I suspected that using % MSRP on chrome wheels would not be accurate.

    The % off MSRP probably works better on options that are normal options, ie. not gold package, black pearl package or chrome wheels.

    Good luck on your purchase.

    Why not make a trip to Ca while you are at it?
  • peachypeachy Member Posts: 3
    Having only checked with two dealers in the Midwest, I have not been able to get the pricing discussed on this board. Any suggestions for specific dealers in the Midwest (Chicagoland)?
  • rick1rick1 Member Posts: 12
    Considering a 2000 ES 300 w/ 29K miles for $23,000 at carmax. Appears to be in good shape - would you recommend buying this vehicle? thanks
  • sarahsarah Member Posts: 19
    I was offered a base price of 31,500(MSRP$35174)by a local dealer in westchester that includes all except for the ND package, is this a good deal? He also gave me a lease option that includes 15,000 mi and 36 mos term of $474/mo. with all the fees included. The acquisition fee(same as bank fee?) was quoted as $1250 which I thought was very high. I know that it's not a bad deal but I'm not sure if I can get a better deal.
  • kiiwiikiiwii Member Posts: 318
    I'm in TX and looking for an ES with premium package + VSC. The sales lady told me no cars in the southern reagion has VSC unless I get every option. She said I can only get an ES with premium + VSC thru special order. She also said that special order cars will be sold at MSRP. There is no discount.

    Is it true that dealers can't offer discount to special orders?
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    will be added to the 31,500 price, and you will end up paying 32,750, plus license and tax, then you are getting a 93% of MSRP, which is significantly higher than board members posted between November - January.

    If your 31,500 includes the $1250, then your final quote before license and tax is 89.5% MSRP, right in line with what other board members have been getting.

    Were I in your position, I would push for not paying any more than 31,500 not counting license and tax.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    however, they are not as motivated to give you a discount on vehicles that are not currently part of their inventory,

    Many dealers have to pay the manufacturer for vehicles on their lot. Special orders don't help them move their inventory.
  • sjmurray3sjmurray3 Member Posts: 90
    What is the base money factors and residuals for the ES330 for 36/15000 and 48/15000?
  • charliegooddogcharliegooddog Member Posts: 11
    If your local dealers are gouging the price, try autopurchaseconsultants.com. They are an auto broker that will shop the best price for you all over the country if necessary. The cost of shipping when added to the price they can get for you should be much less than a local dealers price. Plus, they can special order if you want. The problem is if the car arrives with minor cosmetic damage, but that type of damage is generally not very expensive to fix.

    I have talked to them and read their materials, but have not used them yet. I probably will use them when I decide to pull the trigger and buy. If you use them, please post your experience so that I and others will have a better idea of whether they perform as advertised. Good luck.
  • pierapiera Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for maxhonda99's answer, I also read some other posts which are very helpful as well.

    Here are more questions:

    1,Given no significant difference in quote, what advantage do we have if we choose local dealer instead of some one a bit far away? I know some guy in N.CA even took plane to pick up his car from S.CA, because of a deep discount.

    2,What's the car tax rate in N.CA? I'm moving to N.CA, where the sales tax is 7.5%.

    3,What's the typical package? Is that the base + PM (Premium package) ? Since I have a preference on the EX.color and In.color, I want to know which package are most available or less worried about dealer's inventory.

    Thanks!
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    1. In my experience, there is little impact on choosing one dealer over another. A dealer provides its level of maintenance service regardless of whether you bought your car from that dealer or not.
    Also, dealers (at least in So Cal) are cooperative with one another, often swapping inventory to meet a particular client's needs. For example, I wanted Mystic Sea with Charcoal interior and my dealer only had the ivory interior. My dealer swapped with another for the car I wanted.

    2. Don't know the answer to your 2.
    3. You can find the typical package for your area by going to www.lexus.com and "building" you car. When you "build" a vehicle, it asks for your zip code, and then it brings up the typical packages for the zip code, along with MSRP for those packages.

    In my experience, it is toyota that limits the packages by region. The dealers have little choice in what they get. Makes sense when you think about it. For example, I have never seen a Starlight Pearl color in So Cal, and neither have many of the So Cal dealers. However, in Texas, there seem to be a lot of Starlight Pearl.

    Another example, when I bought my car, in the So Cal region, heated seats were not included on the lowest end premium package. However, in Michigan, heated seats were in all premium packages.

    By the way, they tend to call all packages that are not the "base", premium, unless they have NAV/ML. But the base models are seldom available, making virtually all packages either "premium" or "NAV/ML".
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I'm just wondering right now, how much are ES330's going for? Sticker? Invoice? Somewhere in between?
  • sarahsarah Member Posts: 19
    I was just offered an ES330 with everything except the NAV system for $30,900 excl. tax and license. The MSRP is $35,174. Did I get a good deal?
    I have to thank the board here for helping me negotiate for the price, I have read a lot of posts regarding the prices they paid, it helped me figure out my target price($30,500)which will be ideal. The sales rep.was not budging beyong $31,200 until I told him that I saw people paying $30,000 range from this site . He then went to talk to his manager and offered me the final price.

    Is there anything else other than license,and taxes that they may charge me in closing? I'm going to close the deal on monday.Thanks for any advice.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    You might post your dealer's geograhical location.

    You seemed to have received one of the best quotes on the board at 87.8 MSRP. Even his higher quote is 88.7 of MSRP, which is not bad at all.

    Sounds like a fantastic deal, provided they don't add other charges.

    Based on info from this board, it seems that a buyer can get a vehicle for 89% MSRP with no haggle.

    However, if the potential buyer is willing to walk out, etc. etc., he/she might be able to do quite a bit better.

    Sure wish we had thought of this method when I was purchasing my car!!

    At least I know what to do next time I buy one!!
  • sarahsarah Member Posts: 19
    That's why I thanked this board for helping me get this deal. I would not have any idea what to negotiate for if I had not read all the posts from people who got good deals. I actually told the sales rep. that I've researched a lot from this site and I know my target was in the ball park,and that I was not talking nonsense, he took note of that. Thanks again to this board!

    BTW, the dealer is in larchmont, westchester.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    ... to go to a dealer set on not paying more than 89% MSRP.

    I would offer the dealer 87% to begin with, and see where it goes from there.

    Be sure and post your deal to this board.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Were you asked to 'commit' to $30,900 on the spot in order to keep it. Just as buyers'd use walk-out technique, sellers usually demand you buy it 'today' to keep a negotiated price. Sounds like you'd still have time to check the price here b4 you commit on Mon. Good deal, and/or a nice salesperson?
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Is the navigation system worth the price?
  • charliegooddogcharliegooddog Member Posts: 11
    I just ordered an ES 330. My local dealer in Bellevue, WA and the other Washington dealers are selling cars at much higher prices than the SoCal dealers. The lowest price offer I received from Bellevue was $32,900 for the mid level Northwest Package (MSRP $35,314).

    Frustrated with the reluctance of Northwest dealers to negotiate a "reasonable" price, I turned to the Internet. I sent out proposals to seven dealers - one in Colorado and six in California. I picked the California dealers from posts on this Board. The response I received was overwhelming. Within two hours I received proposals from all of the dealers. Virtually all of our communication was by E-mail so I didn't have to listen to the local salesmen whining about how much money they would lose if they sold me a car (funny how the owners of dealerships are all multi-millionaires). The E-mail communication was terrific.

    After letting the dealers know that there was healthy competition in the marketplace, I received several quotes from California dealers at $30,700 for the California mid level package (MSRP $34,734). I have a feeling that if I had bargained hard and waited until a few days prior to the end of the month that the price would have dropped to $30,500 (but $30,700 was the low offer I actually received in writing). All of the dealers were prompt, courteous and pleasant to deal with (unlike my face to face car buying experiences).

    I finally placed an order with Stevinson Lexus, the Golden, CO dealer because the Colorado Package had VSC Brake Assist which the California packages did not. In rainy Washington it is a good to have VSC Brake Assist.

    The Colorado dealer was not the lowest price, but it was reasonably close and I have a very good feeling about the person I am dealing with and I am getting VSC.

    My car will be trucked to my home address. I must admit that I am a little fearful that something may go wrong (I tend to worry about things) but I feel that the cost savings justify taking a risk that there might be delivery damage or dealer insolvency issues.

    Many thanks to the people who have posted their experiences. Without this Board, I never would have held out for such a good deal. In particular I wish to thank atoews who has spent a considerable amount of time helping the rest of us novice buyers.

    When I actually get the car I will let this Board know and will update my experience. Thanks again.

    - charliegooddog
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    What was the MSRP and what price did you pay at the CO. dealer? Were there any other costs other than TTL?
  • charliegooddogcharliegooddog Member Posts: 11
    MSRP was $35,314. There were no other costs. No documentation fees, environment fees or other imaginative fees tacked on. The price I paid includes delivery so it is difficult to compare. My best guess is that excluding the delivery component I paid appx 88.75% of MSRP.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I just "built an ES" on the Lexus website for So Cal and all options offer VSC.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    They are most useful in metropolitan areas that you are unfamiliar with. Beware, however if you want to use it outside of the areas advertised in the owner's manual.

    I bought my car in 2002, and the NAV version then did not even show a McDonald's that has been here for years in the Point of Interest.

    I went to a dealer to see if the new NAV version has more of my area, but no dice!!

    Oh, well, I drove to Portland and the thing was worth its weight in gold.
  • pierapiera Member Posts: 8
    atoews--thanks for your #404.

    Charlie--in #412 you did not mention the North Cal dealers. Did you try them, or found them not offering compettive price? And, how much does the delivery cost (from CO to WA), roughly?
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    I've found that most of these built-in NAV don't show chained stores very well (fast food, groceries, dept stores...). When it finds it it might tell you to drive 100 miles for a merger. That's the same in Honda/Acura's as well, whose NAV is said to be first rate too.

    BTW, anyone bothers to get an updated NAV DVD from Lexus? How much would that cost? Wonder if it's worth it -- may not show a close place for a big Mac anyway.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Wel, interestingly enough, the maps themselves come from a single map data base, not the individual auto manufacturer.

    If you think about it, it would not be cost effective for each auto manufacturer to be in the map business.

    So, if you get screwed up in the driving directions, it is probably because the maps are screwed up. I noted that the same problems that are in the NAV are also problems on Yahoo Map Quest, which probably gets their maps from the same source, too.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    That may be it. Anyone knows where's the map/POI source from? I also wonder why they can find a MacD. 100 miles away, but not around the block.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hey folks? This conversation should move to our general Lexus ES 300/ES 330 discussion since this one is specifically about the prices paid and how the actual buying experience progressed.

    Let's meet up over there to continue the navi discussion... see you there. :)
  • charliegooddogcharliegooddog Member Posts: 11
    All of the SoCal dealers gave me quotes based on cars without VSC. I followed up the VSC issue with three of the SoCal dealers and each one told me that the standard SoCal package did not include VSC or power foot pedals, but did include a power sunshade (not very useful where I live).

    The Northern Cal dealers I dealt with all quoted prices higher than the SoCal dealers. I believe that the delivery cost from Colorado will be $550 but I can't really tell because delivery is a part of the total price. I received various quotes from the SoCal dealers on delivery costs. Low was $525 and the high delivery cost was from a Northern California dealer - $700.

    My Colorado dealer contacted me today and told me that they think that my car will be delivered to their dealership on Wednesday. It is possible that I will accept delivery here in Kirkland, WA on Saturday. I can't wait. But, I might not get the MSO until after Saturday and I can't drive the car until I get it titled in Washington, which I can't do without the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin. Oh well, I can park it in my garage and read the manual while I wait for the MSO.
  • sarahsarah Member Posts: 19
    I test drove my car(which I am scheduled to pick up on Sat.)today, and I'm quite surprised at the first step on the gas,the car did'nt seem to respond, I drove out of the dealer's lot and I felt like I was pushing the car from behind,the gas pedal was pressed hard enough and I drove around the area and I thought maybe there was something blocking the tires from running,it was so slow, I thought maybe the brake was onbut there was no indication of that.I turned back right away to the dealer and asked the sales person. He opened the hood and showed me the label on the engine marked VHH(orVVH)He said that the car's transmission is driven by computer sensor, it senses how the driver drives the car and he said that it will take about 15 miles before the car would respond to my way of driving,he even had an engineer explained to me. I was really puzzed. I decided to try again and drove out of the parking lot again,this time ,the car seemed to respond better. Am I just not used to this new technology or was I too tight because I was nervous or is that sign of transmission problem that some people talked about? Please give me some of your opinions. I still have time to back out although I think I'm way too far into the deal. I signed the financing application today
  • willwwillw Member Posts: 2
    Keep us posted. I am in Bellevue area as well. Thanks.
  • phkckphkck Member Posts: 185
    The ES 330 was a close 2nd to my purchase of an 04 TL. I had the same experience with the ES 330. It felt as though the parking brake was on. Similar to the Acura it will pick up on the way you drive, slow and easy off the line or like a jack rabbit. It just takes a little time.
    So enjoy the Lexus, nothing but praise for it. For me it was more biased toward the luxury than the sport side of the equation.
  • sarahsarah Member Posts: 19
    Did you say that you bought the TL instead of Lexus? Are you satisfied so far?

    I've a dilemma which a lot of people would love to have. I have very good offers from both dealership because of the end of month rush. Both cars are fully loaded except for the NAV. Lexus offers $30900 with 3.49% financing,TL offers 30,000 with 2.9%. I like the comfort ride of Lexus but like the pick up and handling of TL,it looks like TL has the better deal here but I'm biased towards the Lexus because it's better known to me. I have to make my final decision in 2 days. My concern with the TL is the type of gas it needs(91) while the Lexus only needs regular. Does anybody have any opinion to share?
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Lexus recommends 91 for the ES300. They say regular is OK, but you'd hate to get the car based on that and then find that you prefer premium gas.

    I use premium in my car. I'd wager that most people use the premium in their ES300s, even though Toyota advertises that regular is usable.
  • charliegooddogcharliegooddog Member Posts: 11
    The Colorado dealer E-mailed me yesterday to tell me that my new car was shipped and that I should receive the car at my home sometime after 1:00 pm tuesday. The communication from Stevinson Lexus has been terrific.

    The best price quote that I could get from Bellevue Lexus was $32,900 and that quote was from the General Sales Manager who told me that he didn't have a mid level Black Garnet Pearl car in stock.

    If you continue to deal with Bellevue Lexus, my advice is to skip working with anyone except for the General Sales Manager. Working with anyone else is simply a waste of time. Also, you should insist that the price include everything except for retail sales tax and license and there be no documentation or other fees.

    I'll post again when the car is delivered.
  • ronn1010ronn1010 Member Posts: 6
    Phkck, where did you get the best price on your TL and Lexus. I am in SF Bay Area and trying to decide which car to buy. The Bay Area are quoting higher prices. Best price so far for TL w/o nav. is $34,500 OTD including T&L. Which is about 31,600 for the car.

    What price did you get and what dealer for Lexus and acura. Also, what options did you consider for your Lexus?

    I am ready to buy now because the end of month is in a few days.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.
    Thanks
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    $30K for TL? Either you live in an area where few buy (near) luxury cars, or you are a super negotiator, or salespersons all hit on you. I might pay you to get a deal for me! In choosing one the other person said it right. TL is sportier while ES is more luxy. Lexus might have a better brandname if you care about that. Good 'deal' either way.
  • charliegooddogcharliegooddog Member Posts: 11
    Mike, the driver of the truck that is delivering my car, called me today to confirm directions and to coordinate delivery. I asked him to "be gentle with my baby" and he told me that my car was on the top rack where it would be away from the road dust and debris. Mike will be in Portland, OR this evening and will see me tomorrow afternoon. So far so good.
  • fourizonlyfourizonly Member Posts: 17
    I got a fantastic quote from a So. Cal dealer today on a mid level ($34,734) ES330. The price quoted was $30,270 (87.1% of MSRP) plus tax & license.
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