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Comments
The lowest has been about 88% and the highest was about 93%, which was very, very high.
You got an average deal, I'd say.
I would not worry about invoice or dealer charges, so long as I received about 88 - 90% MSRP not including government charges, like tax, license, etc, which is going to vary by state and locality.
1,Does the NAV system need subscription fees (yearly paid? and How much?)? Some guy told me if I drive to different city, i have to download the local map which charge a fee as well. (sounds ridiculous to me).
2,any experience in Sacramento/Bay area?
3,If I only want a base model without any option, is it likely for me to get a deal around 88~89%MSRP?
4,Does Lexus has a seasonal incentive/discount? If it does, when is the best time to buy? One guy told me ES will start to sell 2005 model in October, ---but I would not wait that long.
Any answer or advise will be appreciated.
The NAV system requires no monthly/yearly fees and the entire US is located on the DVD discs that come with the vehicle. Of course not every single street is in the system. The only thing you have to pay for is system upgrades when they come out if you want to upgrade the DVD discs.
"3,If I only want a base model without any option, is it likely for me to get a deal around 88~89%MSRP? "
First of all, good luck finding a ES330 with no options. The produce very few base ES330's.
"4,Does Lexus has a seasonal incentive/discount? If it does, when is the best time to buy? One guy told me ES will start to sell 2005 model in October, ---but I would not wait that long."
For the best deals on 2004's you would need to wait until August or September of 2004. But even right now they are giving good deals on ES330's. The entry level luxury segment is extremely competitive currently, and you can generally buy a ES330 for less than $1K over invoice.
Is the LDA a legitimate part of the Factory Invoice, or is the dealer just attempting to justify a higher price than that which I have agreed to pay?
First of all, where does one obtain invoice? Is invoice listed anywhere on the sticker?
How much can the dealer cludge the invoice?
I know that invoice is supposed to be kind of a rock bottom price, but what the heck is it really, and does it have dependency on geographical region of the dealership?
I am very much interested in hearing debates on why invoice is a better comparison basis than MSRP and am open to changing my opinion.
I like MSRP because it does not vary by geographical region, is set by the manufacturer, is posted for all to see in a format that is retainable by the buyer, and can't be cludged by the dealer.
That being said, the dealer is trying to welch on your original deal, I'd say.
For an apples to apples comparison with what other members have reported receiving, you would get about 89% of MSRP including whatever that LDA is.
I think that MSRP comparison should include everything except taxes and fees that have to be paid by the BUYER (not the dealer) to a government entity.
I agree that for the reasons you state, in most cases, a percent of MSRP is the better way to go. Unfortunately, in my case I was the one who initially offered a flat dollar markup over Invoice. Please note that the Dealer did not try to welch on an original deal. We had no original deal because the dealer never accepted my proposal of $500 over Invoice.
However, a case can be made for using a markup over Invoice where the percentage MSRP markup on options is higher than the percentage MSRP markup on the vehicle base price. For example, chrome wheels are marked up 100% Invoice is $850 and MSRP is $1,700.
In my situation I have decided that the best way for me to go is to purchase a car in California where I can buy at 89% of MSRP and have the car trucked up to Kirkland, WA where I live. I have talked with autopurchaseconsultants.com, an internet auto broker, who may assist me with the transaction for only a $100 fee. Since I am not in iminient need of a new car, I think that I might special order exactly what I want so that I can eliminate some of the options that I will never use such as heated seats (I have them in my present car and never bother to use them) and adjustable foot pedals (something that I can live without). Eliminating the heated seats and adjustable pedals will pay for almost all of the shipping costs. The California dealer won't have to worry about flooring charges and can retain all of the dealer holdback. After shipping costs I will still save about $1,500 over the best verbal offer that I have received from the dealer. It seems to me to be a win -win situation. I don't understand why the local dealer won't at least match the deal. If I was the dealer I would figure that a smaller than anticipated profit is better than no profit at all and it would make sense to me to keep my local buyers happy. This is paricularly the case where a car is special ordered. I guess that's why I don't sell cars for a living.
I just won't feel good about buying the car from my local dealer if I know that I can buy the car somewhere else for a savings of $1,500.
The % off MSRP probably works better on options that are normal options, ie. not gold package, black pearl package or chrome wheels.
Good luck on your purchase.
Why not make a trip to Ca while you are at it?
Is it true that dealers can't offer discount to special orders?
If your 31,500 includes the $1250, then your final quote before license and tax is 89.5% MSRP, right in line with what other board members have been getting.
Were I in your position, I would push for not paying any more than 31,500 not counting license and tax.
Many dealers have to pay the manufacturer for vehicles on their lot. Special orders don't help them move their inventory.
I have talked to them and read their materials, but have not used them yet. I probably will use them when I decide to pull the trigger and buy. If you use them, please post your experience so that I and others will have a better idea of whether they perform as advertised. Good luck.
Here are more questions:
1,Given no significant difference in quote, what advantage do we have if we choose local dealer instead of some one a bit far away? I know some guy in N.CA even took plane to pick up his car from S.CA, because of a deep discount.
2,What's the car tax rate in N.CA? I'm moving to N.CA, where the sales tax is 7.5%.
3,What's the typical package? Is that the base + PM (Premium package) ? Since I have a preference on the EX.color and In.color, I want to know which package are most available or less worried about dealer's inventory.
Thanks!
Also, dealers (at least in So Cal) are cooperative with one another, often swapping inventory to meet a particular client's needs. For example, I wanted Mystic Sea with Charcoal interior and my dealer only had the ivory interior. My dealer swapped with another for the car I wanted.
2. Don't know the answer to your 2.
3. You can find the typical package for your area by going to www.lexus.com and "building" you car. When you "build" a vehicle, it asks for your zip code, and then it brings up the typical packages for the zip code, along with MSRP for those packages.
In my experience, it is toyota that limits the packages by region. The dealers have little choice in what they get. Makes sense when you think about it. For example, I have never seen a Starlight Pearl color in So Cal, and neither have many of the So Cal dealers. However, in Texas, there seem to be a lot of Starlight Pearl.
Another example, when I bought my car, in the So Cal region, heated seats were not included on the lowest end premium package. However, in Michigan, heated seats were in all premium packages.
By the way, they tend to call all packages that are not the "base", premium, unless they have NAV/ML. But the base models are seldom available, making virtually all packages either "premium" or "NAV/ML".
I have to thank the board here for helping me negotiate for the price, I have read a lot of posts regarding the prices they paid, it helped me figure out my target price($30,500)which will be ideal. The sales rep.was not budging beyong $31,200 until I told him that I saw people paying $30,000 range from this site . He then went to talk to his manager and offered me the final price.
Is there anything else other than license,and taxes that they may charge me in closing? I'm going to close the deal on monday.Thanks for any advice.
You seemed to have received one of the best quotes on the board at 87.8 MSRP. Even his higher quote is 88.7 of MSRP, which is not bad at all.
Sounds like a fantastic deal, provided they don't add other charges.
Based on info from this board, it seems that a buyer can get a vehicle for 89% MSRP with no haggle.
However, if the potential buyer is willing to walk out, etc. etc., he/she might be able to do quite a bit better.
Sure wish we had thought of this method when I was purchasing my car!!
At least I know what to do next time I buy one!!
BTW, the dealer is in larchmont, westchester.
I would offer the dealer 87% to begin with, and see where it goes from there.
Be sure and post your deal to this board.
Frustrated with the reluctance of Northwest dealers to negotiate a "reasonable" price, I turned to the Internet. I sent out proposals to seven dealers - one in Colorado and six in California. I picked the California dealers from posts on this Board. The response I received was overwhelming. Within two hours I received proposals from all of the dealers. Virtually all of our communication was by E-mail so I didn't have to listen to the local salesmen whining about how much money they would lose if they sold me a car (funny how the owners of dealerships are all multi-millionaires). The E-mail communication was terrific.
After letting the dealers know that there was healthy competition in the marketplace, I received several quotes from California dealers at $30,700 for the California mid level package (MSRP $34,734). I have a feeling that if I had bargained hard and waited until a few days prior to the end of the month that the price would have dropped to $30,500 (but $30,700 was the low offer I actually received in writing). All of the dealers were prompt, courteous and pleasant to deal with (unlike my face to face car buying experiences).
I finally placed an order with Stevinson Lexus, the Golden, CO dealer because the Colorado Package had VSC Brake Assist which the California packages did not. In rainy Washington it is a good to have VSC Brake Assist.
The Colorado dealer was not the lowest price, but it was reasonably close and I have a very good feeling about the person I am dealing with and I am getting VSC.
My car will be trucked to my home address. I must admit that I am a little fearful that something may go wrong (I tend to worry about things) but I feel that the cost savings justify taking a risk that there might be delivery damage or dealer insolvency issues.
Many thanks to the people who have posted their experiences. Without this Board, I never would have held out for such a good deal. In particular I wish to thank atoews who has spent a considerable amount of time helping the rest of us novice buyers.
When I actually get the car I will let this Board know and will update my experience. Thanks again.
- charliegooddog
I bought my car in 2002, and the NAV version then did not even show a McDonald's that has been here for years in the Point of Interest.
I went to a dealer to see if the new NAV version has more of my area, but no dice!!
Oh, well, I drove to Portland and the thing was worth its weight in gold.
Charlie--in #412 you did not mention the North Cal dealers. Did you try them, or found them not offering compettive price? And, how much does the delivery cost (from CO to WA), roughly?
BTW, anyone bothers to get an updated NAV DVD from Lexus? How much would that cost? Wonder if it's worth it -- may not show a close place for a big Mac anyway.
If you think about it, it would not be cost effective for each auto manufacturer to be in the map business.
So, if you get screwed up in the driving directions, it is probably because the maps are screwed up. I noted that the same problems that are in the NAV are also problems on Yahoo Map Quest, which probably gets their maps from the same source, too.
Let's meet up over there to continue the navi discussion... see you there.
The Northern Cal dealers I dealt with all quoted prices higher than the SoCal dealers. I believe that the delivery cost from Colorado will be $550 but I can't really tell because delivery is a part of the total price. I received various quotes from the SoCal dealers on delivery costs. Low was $525 and the high delivery cost was from a Northern California dealer - $700.
My Colorado dealer contacted me today and told me that they think that my car will be delivered to their dealership on Wednesday. It is possible that I will accept delivery here in Kirkland, WA on Saturday. I can't wait. But, I might not get the MSO until after Saturday and I can't drive the car until I get it titled in Washington, which I can't do without the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin. Oh well, I can park it in my garage and read the manual while I wait for the MSO.
So enjoy the Lexus, nothing but praise for it. For me it was more biased toward the luxury than the sport side of the equation.
I've a dilemma which a lot of people would love to have. I have very good offers from both dealership because of the end of month rush. Both cars are fully loaded except for the NAV. Lexus offers $30900 with 3.49% financing,TL offers 30,000 with 2.9%. I like the comfort ride of Lexus but like the pick up and handling of TL,it looks like TL has the better deal here but I'm biased towards the Lexus because it's better known to me. I have to make my final decision in 2 days. My concern with the TL is the type of gas it needs(91) while the Lexus only needs regular. Does anybody have any opinion to share?
I use premium in my car. I'd wager that most people use the premium in their ES300s, even though Toyota advertises that regular is usable.
The best price quote that I could get from Bellevue Lexus was $32,900 and that quote was from the General Sales Manager who told me that he didn't have a mid level Black Garnet Pearl car in stock.
If you continue to deal with Bellevue Lexus, my advice is to skip working with anyone except for the General Sales Manager. Working with anyone else is simply a waste of time. Also, you should insist that the price include everything except for retail sales tax and license and there be no documentation or other fees.
I'll post again when the car is delivered.
What price did you get and what dealer for Lexus and acura. Also, what options did you consider for your Lexus?
I am ready to buy now because the end of month is in a few days.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks