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Acura TSX vs Acura TL
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Basically...both are very accomodating cars. The TL has a little bit more rear seating room...but the TSX is great for the kids. The one feature the TSX has over the TL is that the rear seats fold...so it can haul goods when needed.
The TL does not have folding rear seats because the car is built with reinforcement beams to stiffen the rear box...for improved torsion stability...hence the improved performance ride. The TL trunk is not small....very capable and well laid out to accomodate most typical items.
And yes...the TL is built in the USA. The '05 TSX built in Japan.
Bzzzzzzzzzt! Wrong answer! You define performance as stoplight-to-stoplight speed, others actually like to know what happens when the car has to turn. You know, real-world driving.
In this category, the TSX wins hands-down. Tighter chassis, better steering, less weight, better handling car. In short, a more tossable package. There's much more to performance than HP.
Mrdj, the AT TSX will probably get better highway fuel economy because of its taller gearing. I can say that the 6 MT TSX performs very well at the speeds you describe. I will get over 30 MPG @ 80 MPH, and the car feels very stable.
:shades:
I believe Acura did this intentionally, targeting certain segments of the market: TSX for those who like a more tossable, sharp-handling, high-revving feel, and the TL for those seeking a plusher, larger and more powerful package.
Admittedly, when I test drove both, I couldn't get past the HP differential
This is an interesting comment, because I think the TSX's attributes are a little harder to quantify. It may not be until you drive it for an extended period of time that its qualities really start to emerge and you began to appreciate its balance. That's when you start to worry less about things like straight HP numbers.
Both are great cars, and excellent values in their respective segments. And both can be had with sweet-shifting six speeds.
Am I saying that the TSX drives like a dog? No. It just has a difference characteristic. A good character (and yes the TL will blow the doors off of a TSX from a stop-light to stop-light and in accelerating in and out of curves).
As for mileage....both get excellent mileage. The TL easily gets over 30mpg on the highway also.
My recommendation is for all to test drive both vehicles over various road conditions. Both are fine cars.
'torque steer' - none in the automatic tranny. And the 2006 manuals have a compensator to mitigate. Not an issue.
Once again...both are great cars.... Test drive both and make an educated decision.
I've felt it, all the car mags that tested it felt it, yet you don't. Try a little experiment. Dive into one of your favorite turns at a good rate of speed, then give me a WOT exit on said turn. If you don't end up in the ditch, I will surely defer to your superior driving skill.
Message #207 was attempting to explain that the horsepower difference as inconsequential as real world driving isn't stop-light to stop-light drag racing. Yet now you are saying that it is necessary to drive the car hard and non-real-world?
Yes car magazines have indicated torque steer and it is a simple matter of physics of any FWD car. However my real world driving have not encountered torque steer which you would find in a Maxima or others. And if you should go back into other postings in these forums...many others have not encountered fatal torque steer as you are attempting to portray.
In fact...torque steer is much more evident in the TSX than the TL as it is also a FWD car....in real world conditions...without pushing the car hard. I am not sure how you could declare that the TSX is immune to torque steer when it is a FWD.
My point. Both cars are great. I highly suggest any persons interested in purchasing a car to drive both and make up their own personal selection. Don't listen to anyone (including me)....but make up your own minds. Get off the keyboard and test drive the cars!
(Or was that in some other TSX-related discussion, who can keep track?? :confuse: )
IMO, I can't bring myself to concur with your opinion. That being said, reading the literature on the improvements for the 06 TSX, I really feel that the TSX is a whole lot of car for under 30k
Yes....the TL 2006 reported horsepower changed from 2005 reports because of the method of measurement and not because of a decline in output.
No....the 2006 TSX horsepower altered from 2005 because of a change in output (they changed the engine configuration) measured with the new reporting method.
Since both the TSX and TL switched to the SAE standard for 2006, it appears that the TSX gained about 17 HP on the TL - that's significant!
When I got new tires, it was important for them to be very good in rain, snce here in FL, we have a long and hard rainy-season. I decided on Goodyear Eagle F1s, which I got from Tirerack for something like $145/tire, if you include shipping. I saved some $$$ by not getting them in the highest speed rating available (now I can only go 110 mph instead of 140 or something like that - not an issue for this driver who maxes out at 85!!!). The car still handles fantastically, but it's a lot more comfortable now (still have significant road feel) AND my torque steer is reduced.
Apparently, torque steer is caused by a twisting motion used to generate power that generally pulls the car to the right (at least when starting from a stop). Good tread on your left front tire helps reduce torque.
So that's my summer-tire story. Any questions?
For illustrative purposes, only to show how I view significant changes in hp, consider
2006 BMW M5 w/ 500 hp vs. 2000+ BMW M5 w/ 400 hp
2005 Mercedes E55 469hp vs. 1999+ E55 w/ 396 hp.
At the very least there is a 70hp difference and I view that as a significant change in hp.
Whether I am correct or not in distinguishing significant changes in hp is one issue, I just can't see how this is significant enough to bridge the gap between these two cars. :confuse:
For instance.....the BMW 3 series sedan is 255hp vs the 2006 TL 258....so is the TL a better performer than the BMW? Or is the Buick Lucerne with 275hp a better performer than the TSX because it has 70hp more?
The reasons is that there are many other factors other than the raw single measurement of horsepower. Horsepower is a contributing factor...but not the sole measurement of performance.
Where the heck are you getting this from? My main point is that the difference in power between the TSX and TL is not nearly as significant as many claim. A common tendency is to compare HP ratings on paper and extrapolate from that one spec that one car is superior to another, in all areas of performance, SIMPLY BASED ON HP RATINGS ALONE!
If other TL drivers are not experiencing TS, then they don't drive in an enthusiastic manner. My 2000 EX V6 with 200 HP exhibited it, but TL's don't? No one is claiming that TS is experienced when tooling around town.
In fact...torque steer is much more evident in the TSX than the TL as it is also a FWD car....in real world conditions...without pushing the car hard. I am not sure how you could declare that the TSX is immune to torque steer when it is a FWD.
Wow. This is a new. First of all, show me where I indicated that the TSX is immune to torque steer. I have not done a search, but I don't recall ever typing the word "immune" on this forum. Second, congratulations, delmar! You are singlehandedly rewriting the laws of physics! First the heavier, 270 HP FWD TL exhibits no TS, and now the lighter, 200 HP, 166 lb-ft TSX exhibits much more TS than the TL. Who's being inconsistent now?
Whew! This is more than my brain can handle before my morning coffee! :P
Both cars target a different market segment. Both, IMO, are outstanding. On this we agree. I just like the TSX better. Thanks for the spirited discussion. Enjoy your cars.
Have a nice day.
As for torque steer...if you look at others posts that do mention such...they basically have to jump on the accelerator from a dead stop with a manual tranny. A rabbit start. Yes...I don't do that often so that is why I am not encountering noticable torque steer.
I really couldn't tell if I was at all satisfied. Any comments or comparisons.
Otherwise, I prefer the size of the TSX and handling over the TL, though
I think the TL wins on looks and certainly speed.
http://www.audioworld.com/news/0403/15.acura.els.audio.challenge.shtml
Rather than wasting my money on a navigation system (I didn't need one - you might), I took that same amount of money and spent it on upgrading the front speakers and the 6x9"s (bass only) in the back with MBQ's, a new amp, and sound dampening material in the doors (they sound quite German now when they close - heh). I left the head unit alone, so my entire sound system looks stock rather than being a thief magnet.
YMMV
Yup. There is a big difference. The TSX's handling, road feel and steering blows away the TL. You ol' stoplight drag queens crack me up
Dude, you're just a walking cliche aren't you? You break out the Euro Accord line three years into the cars run here? What a talent. Really, we haven't heard that one around here in at least a week.
Don't have to buy the TSX, I own it outright. Enjoy yachting in your gussied up USDM Accord. Then try to get a clue.
Neither car is diminished, imho, one bit by it's relatives or shared underpinnings. Had either been "gussied up Cavaliers or Ions," well that would certainly be a different story...
Why is it, and you see this in almost any thread you choose, that people feel that they must denigrate another person's choice in autos? Sure, you can explain why a certain car was not the best choice for you, but that in no way reflects the suitbility of that car for anybody else.
Thanks, I truly enjoy yachting around in my Uber-Accord. And I haven't had a clue since I got married!
Enjoy the Euro-Accord, great car!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
If I wanted a high revving Japanese FWDer I'd go with the Mazdaspeed6 instead.
I'm a TL owner who's not interested in bashing the TSX and just want your honest response to my question on your comment, above:
I think the TL handles great - I drove the TSX as a rental car for several days and thought it handled well, but not as well as the TL. Might be b/c the TL is wider and sits lower. Why do you feel otherwise? As for road feel, I thought they were very similar.
It has about 50 more HP and torque (significant, but not "lots"). Unfortunately, the TL needs much of that just to overcome the extra 350 lbs it carries.
"has better tires"
Nope. They both come standard with Michelin all-seasons.
"sits lower"
Put a 350 lb man in the passenger seat of the TSX, and it'll sag 0.3" closer to the ground too...
"better brakes"
Wrong. They both come standard with 11.8" ventilated front rotors.
"better suspension"
Wrong again. They both have the same suspension - double wishbone in front, multi-link in back.
"better handling"
Wrong. The TSX weighs less, has the same suspension and tires, and has better weight distribution. The TSX feels more nimble and lighter on it's feet compared to the TL, whose extra pounds result in more weight transfer during transitions. The TL takes a set more slowly, but feels more planted once settled.
"better seats"
I thought they both felt great, but I suppose that's personal preference. Whatever.
The TL is George Foreman and the TSX is Sugar Ray Leonard. There is no winner or loser here - just personal taste.