Acura TSX vs Acura TL

delmar1

I own both the 2005 TSX and 2005 TL. Actually amazingly enough...my TL is getting about the same mpg as my wife's TSX. However...it could be because we both drive mixed mileage and she is running shorter driving distances....which tend to suck more gas.

Basically...both are very accomodating cars. The TL has a little bit more rear seating room...but the TSX is great for the kids. The one feature the TSX has over the TL is that the rear seats fold...so it can haul goods when needed.

mrdj

The one thing I fell to mention is that when I'm in the car alone travelling to and from work, I average between 80 and 90 MPH. At those speeds, I don't expect fantastic mileage from any car, but I'd expect either of these to much better than my Bimmer or Stang. I noticed the automatic is rated slightly better in fuel consumption, but I would guess the 6sp would be better and freeway speeds. Has anyone driven the 06 TSX. Under the new HP rating sysem, the TL is down to 258, while the 06 TSX is actually up a bit from the 200 under the old rating. I read that the new model recieved the bump people asked for in performance. Also, since I'm in the states and can't quite remember, how's the trunk layout in the TL compared to the TSX? I do remember it being quite small. And are fold down rear seats not an option? Also, is the TL built in the US?

delmar1

Don't be fooled by the change in the TL's horsepower. The change is caused by a different measurement standard. Basically...same 'power' as in the the 2005.

The TL does not have folding rear seats because the car is built with reinforcement beams to stiffen the rear box...for improved torsion stability...hence the improved performance ride. The TL trunk is not small....very capable and well laid out to accomodate most typical items.

And yes...the TL is built in the USA. The '05 TSX built in Japan.

bodble2

Change in HP rating system notwithstanding, I think the TSX has significantly closed the HP gap between it and the TL. I didn't consider the TSX before because I thought it just didn't have the low-end grunt for city driving. I haven't driven an '06 TSX yet, but I think it may have closed the HP gap with the TL by as much as 20. It may be a viable option now.

harrybush00

I think either the TSX or the TL would both be fine choices for you. With that said, it seems like it's just a matter of how badly you want to save your dollars. Sure, the TL offers more power and possibly a nicer interior (imo), but the TSX is such a fun car. I'm sure you could get 30+ mpg and have the pleasure of shifting the sweetest manual tranny available in a sedan for less than $29K with a navi. You should definitely test drive the TSX and TL on the freeway. I have not yet tried out the TL, but maybe the higher weight of the TL will yield a better highway ride and high-speed stability.

billyperks

Didn't the TSX hp rating went down also with these new measurements?

johnny420

The TL beats the TSX in the performance category hands-down.

Bzzzzzzzzzt! Wrong answer! You define performance as stoplight-to-stoplight speed, others actually like to know what happens when the car has to turn. You know, real-world driving.

In this category, the TSX wins hands-down. Tighter chassis, better steering, less weight, better handling car. In short, a more tossable package. There's much more to performance than HP.

Mrdj, the AT TSX will probably get better highway fuel economy because of its taller gearing. I can say that the 6 MT TSX performs very well at the speeds you describe. I will get over 30 MPG @ 80 MPH, and the car feels very stable.

:shades:

taxesquire

good retort, Johny. You drove both and like the TSXs handling better? Admittedly, when I test drove both, I couldn't get past the HP differential. That was in '04.

johnny420

Yes, this is my impression of the two cars after owning the TSX for 21 months and taking the TL on several test drives. Don't get me wrong, I think the TL is sweet, and I considered buying one before settling on the TSX. Yes, the TL is faster in a straight line, but there are things you give up by going to a larger, softer car. There's no get-around for the physics of the situation. Torque steer is also an issue for the TL.

I believe Acura did this intentionally, targeting certain segments of the market: TSX for those who like a more tossable, sharp-handling, high-revving feel, and the TL for those seeking a plusher, larger and more powerful package.

Admittedly, when I test drove both, I couldn't get past the HP differential

This is an interesting comment, because I think the TSX's attributes are a little harder to quantify. It may not be until you drive it for an extended period of time that its qualities really start to emerge and you began to appreciate its balance. That's when you start to worry less about things like straight HP numbers.

Both are great cars, and excellent values in their respective segments. And both can be had with sweet-shifting six speeds.

delmar1

Johnny...I own both the TSX and TL. Now...can I say definitively which car is a better real world car...no. Does the lighter weight make a difference...kinda....but at the same time the TL drives with the feel of a much lower center of gravity. And the suspension of the TL is more 'sports tuned' so that there is more sports handling (not just around cones...but as you sweep across curves).

Am I saying that the TSX drives like a dog? No. It just has a difference characteristic. A good character (and yes the TL will blow the doors off of a TSX from a stop-light to stop-light and in accelerating in and out of curves).

As for mileage....both get excellent mileage. The TL easily gets over 30mpg on the highway also.

My recommendation is for all to test drive both vehicles over various road conditions. Both are fine cars.

delmar1

'larger softer car' - Nah....the suspension on the TL is stiffer...along with a stiffer frame (check out the stability bar near the firewall and behind the rear seats of the TL). In fact....the TSX seating position is where you feel like you are riding high in the car...and not low like the TL.

'torque steer' - none in the automatic tranny. And the 2006 manuals have a compensator to mitigate. Not an issue.

Once again...both are great cars.... Test drive both and make an educated decision.

taxesquire

Johnny, I am really enjoying your insights (yours too delmar). Did you compare 6MT to 6MT? Only b/c I have a 6MT TL, which has a tighter suspension, and I have the summer tire options, which stiffens the suspension even more.

johnny420

Yeah, taxesquire, I drove 6 MT versions of both cars.

johnny420

Hmm...delmar, while I can attribute less torque steer in the AT TL to the presence of an LSD (it's generally acknowledged that the 6 MT version, which doesn't have an LSD, experiences more TS) , the fact that you claim a FWD 270 HP (258?) car has no torque steer leads me to one conclusion: you don't drive your cars very hard. Certainly not an insult, most people don't. I'm positve your reply will be quite colorful.

I've felt it, all the car mags that tested it felt it, yet you don't. Try a little experiment. Dive into one of your favorite turns at a good rate of speed, then give me a WOT exit on said turn. If you don't end up in the ditch, I will surely defer to your superior driving skill.

johnny420

Summer tires would definitely make a difference in the ride and handling of either car. Which tires are you running and how do you like them?

delmar1

I am not attempting a colorful reply. But the simple response is that you are being rather inconsistent in your comparison approach.

Message #207 was attempting to explain that the horsepower difference as inconsequential as real world driving isn't stop-light to stop-light drag racing. Yet now you are saying that it is necessary to drive the car hard and non-real-world?

Yes car magazines have indicated torque steer and it is a simple matter of physics of any FWD car. However my real world driving have not encountered torque steer which you would find in a Maxima or others. And if you should go back into other postings in these forums...many others have not encountered fatal torque steer as you are attempting to portray.

In fact...torque steer is much more evident in the TSX than the TL as it is also a FWD car....in real world conditions...without pushing the car hard. I am not sure how you could declare that the TSX is immune to torque steer when it is a FWD.

My point. Both cars are great. I highly suggest any persons interested in purchasing a car to drive both and make up their own personal selection. Don't listen to anyone (including me)....but make up your own minds. Get off the keyboard and test drive the cars!

bodble2

The 2006 TSX is rated @ 205 HP. So combined with the reduced rating for the TL, the gap has closed by a significant factor.

pat

Didn't someone already ask this? Given that the reason the reported horsepower declined for the TL is the new way of measuring it, not any change in the engine itself, didn't that also happen to the TSX?

(Or was that in some other TSX-related discussion, who can keep track?? :confuse: )

ggesq

Would you really consider a 5 horsepower increase from 200 combined with a 12 horsepower decrease in the 06 TL to be a significant gap filler between these two fine vehicles :confuse:
IMO, I can't bring myself to concur with your opinion. That being said, reading the literature on the improvements for the 06 TSX, I really feel that the TSX is a whole lot of car for under 30k

delmar1

Pat... the answer is 'yes' and 'no'.

Yes....the TL 2006 reported horsepower changed from 2005 reports because of the method of measurement and not because of a decline in output.

No....the 2006 TSX horsepower altered from 2005 because of a change in output (they changed the engine configuration) measured with the new reporting method.

fedlawman

So in 2005, the gap was 270 - 200 = 70 HP. For 2006, the gap is 258 - 205 (SAE) = 53 HP.

Since both the TSX and TL switched to the SAE standard for 2006, it appears that the TSX gained about 17 HP on the TL - that's significant!

taxesquire

I like them very much, thank you. They came with Bridgstone Potenza 17s (I think 18s came with the A-Spec), and frankly, I was happy with those - cornered like on rails. Now I bought my TL used, and it turned out the tires were shot 5 mos after I got the car. I think it was due to the prior owner riding them with too little air and then I accidentally overfilled them. Anyway, the tires handled great until the end, but the ride was very harsh. The tires lasted me about 18000 mi.

When I got new tires, it was important for them to be very good in rain, snce here in FL, we have a long and hard rainy-season. I decided on Goodyear Eagle F1s, which I got from Tirerack for something like $145/tire, if you include shipping. I saved some $$$ by not getting them in the highest speed rating available (now I can only go 110 mph instead of 140 or something like that - not an issue for this driver who maxes out at 85!!!). The car still handles fantastically, but it's a lot more comfortable now (still have significant road feel) AND my torque steer is reduced.

Apparently, torque steer is caused by a twisting motion used to generate power that generally pulls the car to the right (at least when starting from a stop). Good tread on your left front tire helps reduce torque.

So that's my summer-tire story. Any questions?

ggesq

Far be it from me to try and dissuade you in thinking that a <20 hp "gain" or loss for that matter, between the two cars is not significant. We all view these things differently.
For illustrative purposes, only to show how I view significant changes in hp, consider
2006 BMW M5 w/ 500 hp vs. 2000+ BMW M5 w/ 400 hp
2005 Mercedes E55 469hp vs. 1999+ E55 w/ 396 hp.
At the very least there is a 70hp difference and I view that as a significant change in hp.
Whether I am correct or not in distinguishing significant changes in hp is one issue, I just can't see how this is significant enough to bridge the gap between these two cars. :confuse:

billyperks

I agree.

delmar1

Is 17hp significant? It is on a single numeric basis...but may not be on a driveability basis.

For instance.....the BMW 3 series sedan is 255hp vs the 2006 TL 258....so is the TL a better performer than the BMW? Or is the Buick Lucerne with 275hp a better performer than the TSX because it has 70hp more?

The reasons is that there are many other factors other than the raw single measurement of horsepower. Horsepower is a contributing factor...but not the sole measurement of performance.

johnny420

Message #207 was attempting to explain that the horsepower difference as inconsequential as real world driving isn't stop-light to stop-light drag racing. Yet now you are saying that it is necessary to drive the car hard and non-real-world?

Where the heck are you getting this from? My main point is that the difference in power between the TSX and TL is not nearly as significant as many claim. A common tendency is to compare HP ratings on paper and extrapolate from that one spec that one car is superior to another, in all areas of performance, SIMPLY BASED ON HP RATINGS ALONE!

If other TL drivers are not experiencing TS, then they don't drive in an enthusiastic manner. My 2000 EX V6 with 200 HP exhibited it, but TL's don't? No one is claiming that TS is experienced when tooling around town.

In fact...torque steer is much more evident in the TSX than the TL as it is also a FWD car....in real world conditions...without pushing the car hard. I am not sure how you could declare that the TSX is immune to torque steer when it is a FWD.

Wow. This is a new. First of all, show me where I indicated that the TSX is immune to torque steer. I have not done a search, but I don't recall ever typing the word "immune" on this forum. Second, congratulations, delmar! You are singlehandedly rewriting the laws of physics! First the heavier, 270 HP FWD TL exhibits no TS, and now the lighter, 200 HP, 166 lb-ft TSX exhibits much more TS than the TL. Who's being inconsistent now?

Whew! This is more than my brain can handle before my morning coffee! :P

Both cars target a different market segment. Both, IMO, are outstanding. On this we agree. I just like the TSX better. Thanks for the spirited discussion. Enjoy your cars.

Have a nice day.

delmar1

Wait....you are taking it too literal. I do not mean to indicate there is absolutely NO torque steer in a TL. I meant that I have no meaningful torque steer that would prevent me from enjoying my everyday drive and that it in inherent in all FWD. I have not encountered where I would be driving into a ditch. And no...I do not drive around cones looking for that pull when I first launch from a dead stop. As I said...the TSX torque steer is much more evident than the TL. (not rewriting the laws of physics as you like to portray).

As for torque steer...if you look at others posts that do mention such...they basically have to jump on the accelerator from a dead stop with a manual tranny. A rabbit start. Yes...I don't do that often so that is why I am not encountering noticable torque steer.

fedlawman

I never said that 17 HP would "bridge the gap." I simply consider narrowing the gap by 25% to be significant.

joemale

The sound system on the TL is amazing, but with my test drive of the TSX,
I really couldn't tell if I was at all satisfied. Any comments or comparisons.

Otherwise, I prefer the size of the TSX and handling over the TL, though
I think the TL wins on looks and certainly speed.

delmar1

Here is an article comparing the TL's sound system to other premium car sound systems.....

http://www.audioworld.com/news/0403/15.acura.els.audio.challenge.shtml

johnny420

I think there's no question that the TL's sound system is superior to the TSX's, but the TSX does have an adequate stereo. If you're any sort of audiophile, though, you won't be satisfied with the TSX stereo.

bodble2

My point exactly! :shades:

vitocorleone

Yes, the TSX stereo is adequate for most people. That beings said, the worst thing about it is the integrated head unit, because it can't be replaced with an aftermarket - you have to put an aftermarket in one of the other compartments. No thanks.

Rather than wasting my money on a navigation system (I didn't need one - you might), I took that same amount of money and spent it on upgrading the front speakers and the 6x9"s (bass only) in the back with MBQ's, a new amp, and sound dampening material in the doors (they sound quite German now when they close - heh). I left the head unit alone, so my entire sound system looks stock rather than being a thief magnet.

YMMV

triload

Being very familar with the TL, because of my line of work, I have to say the TL definitely has torque steer. It shows up more in the 6-speed. Let go of the wheel, punch the gas, and you will start turning to the left.

richey02hg

hey I was just wondering what the differences are in the interior for like the gadgets. Like are there any extra toys that come on the TL, that I would have to pay extra for on the TSX

jdelabre

I drove both, and its a big difference. Torque from the v-6 blows away the 4 cyl!!!!!!!!

johnny420

I drove both, and its a big difference. Torque from the v-6 blows away the 4 cyl!!!!!!!!

Yup. There is a big difference. The TSX's handling, road feel and steering blows away the TL. You ol' stoplight drag queens crack me up

jdelabre

Then go buy it. I now own a 07 TL-S. Go buy the little european accord :surprise:

pat

Good thing you can each choose the one you like best, eh?

johnny420

Then go buy it. I now own a 07 TL-S. Go buy the little european accord

Dude, you're just a walking cliche aren't you? You break out the Euro Accord line three years into the cars run here? What a talent. Really, we haven't heard that one around here in at least a week.

Don't have to buy the TSX, I own it outright. Enjoy yachting in your gussied up USDM Accord. Then try to get a clue.

laurasdada

Johnny owns a "gussied up European Accord." Which is a great car. I own a "gussied up USDM Accord." Which is a great car.

Neither car is diminished, imho, one bit by it's relatives or shared underpinnings. Had either been "gussied up Cavaliers or Ions," well that would certainly be a different story...

Why is it, and you see this in almost any thread you choose, that people feel that they must denigrate another person's choice in autos? Sure, you can explain why a certain car was not the best choice for you, but that in no way reflects the suitbility of that car for anybody else.

Thanks, I truly enjoy yachting around in my Uber-Accord. And I haven't had a clue since I got married!

Enjoy the Euro-Accord, great car!

nj2pa2nc

I agree with you 100%. That is why I decided to get a tsx-my own decision and I love it. Happy new year

jimmy81

Is there really any competition between a TL and a TSX (except for price)? Both FWDs based on the Accord, but the TL will flat out bury a TSX.

If I wanted a high revving Japanese FWDer I'd go with the Mazdaspeed6 instead.

nj2pa2nc

test drove the mazdaspeed 6. was not impressed with the way it shifted. I think it is AWD.

jdelabre

I agree, I like the torque of the TL. And the new TL-S 3.5 Big time. You like the TSX, I like the TL-S. Have a great day. I won't until 6 p.m. Working today.

johnny420

Bury it how? In a drag race? There's more to driving than straight lines.

meateater

The TL has lots more torque and hp, has better tires and sits lower, better brakes, better suspension, better handling, better seats..... yea... it'll bury the TSX....and it does.... and it should.

nj2pa2nc

it also costs more. i prefer higher,thank you and i am no longer into racing so the tsx is just great for me and what i want. I put 5,000 miles on it in one month-highwaydriving. Nothing wrong with the tsx. love it happy new year there is nothing wrong with the tl either if you like get it My tsx is milano red with ebony int-can not get it in a tl

taxesquire

TSX's handling, road feel and steering blows away the TL

I'm a TL owner who's not interested in bashing the TSX and just want your honest response to my question on your comment, above:

I think the TL handles great - I drove the TSX as a rental car for several days and thought it handled well, but not as well as the TL. Might be b/c the TL is wider and sits lower. Why do you feel otherwise? As for road feel, I thought they were very similar.

fedlawman

"lots more torque and hp"

It has about 50 more HP and torque (significant, but not "lots"). Unfortunately, the TL needs much of that just to overcome the extra 350 lbs it carries.

"has better tires"

Nope. They both come standard with Michelin all-seasons.

"sits lower"

Put a 350 lb man in the passenger seat of the TSX, and it'll sag 0.3" closer to the ground too...

"better brakes"

Wrong. They both come standard with 11.8" ventilated front rotors.

"better suspension"

Wrong again. They both have the same suspension - double wishbone in front, multi-link in back.

"better handling"

Wrong. The TSX weighs less, has the same suspension and tires, and has better weight distribution. The TSX feels more nimble and lighter on it's feet compared to the TL, whose extra pounds result in more weight transfer during transitions. The TL takes a set more slowly, but feels more planted once settled.

"better seats"

I thought they both felt great, but I suppose that's personal preference. Whatever.

The TL is George Foreman and the TSX is Sugar Ray Leonard. There is no winner or loser here - just personal taste.