You need to reread the posts from agent and get them straight before replying. As far as "young" getting this Avolon I've seen a very Hunky guy driving one.
I picked up my white XL after a surprise call from the Toyota dealer. What wasn't a surprise was that they didn't want to give me the $1,200 below MSRP I'd insisted upon. So I said to return my refund. Ten minutes later a call back. How 'bout $600 below sticker? Nope. Send me the refund. Five minutes later from the dealer: "Okay, $1,200 below MSRP." So we drove over yesterday and bought the car. The test drive was fine with none of the few problems I'd noted on an XLS I drove a few weeks ago. And the graphite fabric interior was even better than we'd hoped for. The wide dash top is black and most of everything else is in medium and darker grays, subdued and tasteful in my eyes. Best of all is that the plastic trim (which I consider kind of tacky on all the Avalons) matches the aluminum color of the console, so the color scheme is nicely consistent and not at all jarring. The 16" tires are Bridgestone Potenza RE92's. (Tirerack.com has review after review that excoriates them, unfortunately.) Here's my question. Both the handbook and the sticker in the inside door panel say 29 psi for the tires. I've never had a tire that needed so little pressure. But maybe the RE92's are getting a bad rap (mainly for hydroplaning)because users are inserting too much air. I've got 32 psi in them now but will drop to 29 after I post this. Any thoughts based on real information? Other point: The rear window is wildly warped, at least if viewed for more than the usual glance through the rearview mirror. I don't know if it's worth making a fuss about. Everything else is just fine and ergonomically very impressive. I love the controls for audio and air on the steering wheel.
perico1, I reviewed your posts and replies and so far you seem to be the only one reporting water accumulation behind the plastic on the tail lights. Did you reply to avalonturing05's question in post #4700 -- is there water inside the plastic housing?
Next time I wash my car I'll watch for any remaining soapsuds or persistent dripping down the bumpers.
Thanks tunin, I did consult the Owner's Manual (Mackabee's Rule #1), but found no mention or warning at all. There are clear warnings about never to try to shift into P or R while the car is moving, but the manual is silent about shifting between D and N. It actually doesn't say much at all about N.
Is anyone aware of whether this is a mechanically safe or unsafe practice? Obviously this is an important thing to clarify.
Congrats on sticking to your agreed price, ronharv.
To follow up on your observation about distortion through the rear window: when I look through the rear view mirror, the top 1-2" of the rear glass appears quite distorted, but I don't think it's a serious issue while driving.
There is also some distortion in the windshield when I look through the far right region. This is only noticeable when moving your head back and forth but it is not of consequence, since the images of objects tend to move a lot more while driving.
I have noticed a large blind spot behind the right outside mirror. This matters most when about to turn right onto a steep downhill road, because it can obscure the view of pedestrians who may be standing at the corner. I would have preferred that the side mirrors did not project as much to the sides as they do; or since they do, that the mirrors themselves were made wider than they are. There is a fairly large space between the inside edge of the mirror and the window that serves no purpose and obscures the view behind the mirror.
I think this blind spot problem is worse in the 2005 Avalon than it was in my 1997 Camry because of the higher shoulders in the Avalon, that cause the outside mirrors to sit relatively higher than in cars with lower shoulder level, and therefore interfere more with lateral visibility. This probably also happens in other new cars with similar body styles. Something to be aware of, when you trade after 8 or so years.
photoquests, really nice photos, indeed! And I just noticed something in the one you posted in #5086. From the angle you took this photo, it is clear that the driver's side mirror fully blocks the bottom half of the driver's view in that direction. The camera seems to have been at about the height of a small child? I think this supports my point that the side view mirrors sit quite high and therefore interfere more with side visibility than in cars with lower shoulders, where the mirrors sit in relatively lower positions.
Perico1... I don't have my '05 Avalon yet but this happens to the front right headlight on my 95 Avalon. I never really gave it any thought and it never caused a problem. Then again I don't wash it too often.
Thanks havalongavalon!! Well up till now I have been riding in the front seat where I can stretch out and almost fall asleep if I put the seatback down slightly. I will have to try out the back seat to see how comfortable they really are. I was going to mention to all who might be interested, that I had asked my dealer for the instructions on replacing the oil filter element in my new Avalon. He had his service dept print out a copy of the section under lubrication, pages 3119 to 3121. However there is no mention of how to reset the vehicle's computer. I am going to have to ask the dealer how to do this. After the dealer does my first oil change, I plan to do future oil and filter changes myself. I will have to obtain the kit which has the pipe and hose which is inserted into the oil filter cap to drain the filter housing. If I had a scanner I would copy and post these instructions online, however your dealer should be able to copy these instructions for you. Take care!!! gladiator99
Well the problem with shifting into neutral when going down a hill or at other times, is that you won't be able to accelerate if you need to. Its considered unsafe to shift into neutral. How much gas is it going to safe anyway?
"Is anyone aware of whether this is a mechanically safe or unsafe practice? Obviously this is an important thing to clarify?" (coasting in neutral)
I tried coasting once in my 2002 XLE Camry and the Engine Warning Light came on and wouldn't reset. I took it to the dealer and was told this practice could harm the transmission. I don't know if this would apply to the new Avalon or not but I think I'll play it safe just in case for the minimal savings involved.
Your post is definitely a wonderful marketing tool for Toyota. I enjoyed reading it. You sure are an intelligent young man that has his head on right. Good luck in whatever ever car you wind up buying, be it an Avalon or if something else, you did your due diligence and make a lot of sense. All the seniors should read your post.
dmarcus48, absolutely, when you are coasting in Neutral you need to be aware that you need to shift back into D in order to accelerate. The question is, is it mechanically unsafe to coast in N? Will the transmission be damaged, as has been hinted? Or is it simply the equivalent of driving in neutral with a manual transmission?
Depending on terrain the savings can be considerable, of the order of 15% in my test consisting of boulevard and low-traffic street driving at 30-60 mph, with the elevation changing up and down by as much as 1200 ft at a time.
OK, joedbob, thank you very much for this advice. I will wait until the final word is out before I decide whether to adopt this technique. No warning lights have turned on, but I'd rather know for sure if it this can or cannot be done safely.
Anyone else who read my first post on this topic, please take note of these additional comments!
dan41,thanks for you suport, from now on i`ll be on guard to see if we can improve this great car , for example i`m 38 and i like to show the car moscle some times , it`ll be good IF THE PRICE NO CHANGE THAT MUCH" a swich botton to change VSC at will, like i have in the x5, but again if price is not to high, i don`t think we can ask nothing more for the prices,let`s give them a brake to toyota ,that always is over pricing their product because their sale their very well positioned brand, but not in this case ,lets keep it voice down, so they can`t hear us
Actually the Toyota manual does describe how to re-set the oil maintenance light. Sorry I don't recall the exact page number, but I believe all you have to do is depress the trip odometer push button on the display as you turn the ignition to on and hold for 5 seconds.
In that case, I guess I'll have to scrap my plans on getting the 2005 Avalon. After all despite the fact that all my friends find this car to be very attractive, I can't possibly consider getting it if bwia doesn't like how it looks.
No, as a lad that's fresh out of college, I should be guzzling gas like their is no tomorrow. In which case an Infiniti M45 at 17 mpg/23 mpg sounds ideal. I mean let's face it: I should be getting a car that will allow me to blaze down the highway at 120, with my M.C. Hammer stormin' through the sound system. That should fit nicely in the groovy retro look inside the Infiniti sedans.
But, why should I care about reliability? Maybe, I should get myself a slick new BMW and watch my bank account balance drop as I have to take it in the shop every other week. So never mind that Toyota's reliability blows all of the other manufacturers out of the water (with the sole exception of Honda).
Thanks bwia for the refreshing view. It will surely have an impact on my decision.
And yes, it's definitely a looker. On one instance, I literally saw one of the Lexus LS's two cars behind the Avalon 2005, and at that point I realized how much the Avalon 2005 looks like the Lexus LS.
As far as the Camry goes: yeah, it's a great car but there are just so many on the road. Seeing only a handful of the new Avalon's on the road - it will be great to have a car that is more unique.
Also, it turns out that I have my eye's on getting a Phantom Grey Limited. Plus, I like rear spoiler. Unlike many cars, where the spoiler sticks out to much (e.g. the Subaru's), it adds an additional touch of sportiness to the car. By the way, one quick question: the local dealership here likes to load their Avalon Limiteds up (and that includes the spoiler, floor-mat package, and remote starter). Well, I would like all of that, except possibly the remote starter (I just don't need it enough to pay an extra $500). You think I could ask them to remove it?
I appreciate the kind words. Of course, I don't mean to be advertising for Toyota here: it's just from my careful research, this car sticks out from the rest. And it's not like the car is huge by any means. We aren't talking about a Ford explorer or an old-school buick here.
At any rate, asides from being my commuting vehicle, I plan to take it on plenty of trips to the coast (I live in San Jose) and even down to Oregon, at some point. So, the fact that the Avalon Limited is so comfortable will make this very pleasurable.
You seem to forget that everybody isn't a bwia clone! Yes, I am 64, and yes, I purchased a Avalon LTD but it replaced an Infiniti FX45 which replaced a Volvo V70 T5 and an Infiniti G35. My second car is a Nissan 350Z with 19" wheels. I really think that my opinion is more important than demographics when I purchase a car. The other cars I considered before I purchased the Avalon was the Lexus 400h, Acura TL, Infiniti G35 Coupe, Volvo V70R and many others even a Hummer H2. We live in a democratic society!
I know you don't mean to be advertising for Toyota, thats why I thought what you did say was from your honest due diligence and why it would be a great marketing tool for them. Also because of your thoughtful research as a young man who did the time analyzing what you think would be a great car only shows how bright and thoughtful you are, and not being carried away by a name plate that you don't think is worth any extra 10 grand or more. So yes, your are thoughtful and very mature for your age, and I respectfully mean everything I said.
BWIA has a right to say what he did. It's just too bad that he doesn't realize in stating his opinion that "Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder". So his talking about protoplasm etc and denigrating the Avalon for it's looks with such criticism took away from any objectivity he could have displayed by just stating his feelings pertaining to facts,
Hi Havalong: Very thorough analysis of the automatic transmission "neutral coasting method" (NCM). I used to do this a lot before I became more of a "car guy" after college and learned that each time you switch from drive to neutral or from neutral to drive, you engage or disengage the automatic clutch inside your transmission, putting extra wear on that part of the transmission.
Brake pads and rotors are cheap to replace - removing the auto tranny, opening it up and replacing the automatic clutch is not. The cost of gas saved may never exceed the costs of brake wear (pads/rotors/caliper wear), transmission wear (auto clutch) and the inevitable inconvenience and downtime of having your Avalon in the garage while such work eventually has to be done.
Another method I selectively used to maximize mpg (when it won't substantially interfere with surrounding traffic flow) is to drive at slightly slower speeds around town so as to minimize brake usage. When approaching a traffic light (knowing its daypart light cycles during weekdays and weekends helps), do so at a speed low enough so that when you've reached the intersection or the last car in front of you at that light, the light will have already changed. As such, any car in front of you has already started to move so you benefit from your car's existing momentum without having had to shfit your transmission manually into neutral and then back again into drive to get your car back up to speed.
Obviously this won't work at all lights or even at most lights, but for those lights with which you're most familiar, you'll find this method will save you some gas, and timed properly, won't annoy too many people or put any undue wear on your Avalon. Comments anyone?
Hi Ryandse: You don't need to make any apologies for wanting an Avalon at any trim level. I've got two kids, I'm 36, (but 19 at heart accoring to my wife), and I've owned my XLS for almost a month. It has few faults, matches the G35 in HP, slight betters it in reliablity, has a much more cavernous and slightly nicer-looking interior, will likely have a better long-term resale value than G35, but loses in the handling department (Tokico struts/suspension bushings will do much to remedy that when they start making stuff for the '05 Avalon).
As to the others, TL's reliability has nose-dived (check consumer reports and the TL "problems" forum herre on edmunds), and the Audi is a beautiful, well-screwed-together piece of fine furniture that will likely have electrical problems (again check CR and the Audi forum) and can be left in the dust any time an Avalon owner decides to leave one there.
Enjoy the Limited, but don't pay anywhere near MSRP - at your age, the extra grand or two you'll save by being patient and negotiating wisely could mean a lot in the long run (put that $$$ into a 401K or IRA and see what it'll do in 10,20,30 yrs). Enjoy. Hope I've helped. Regards, Deanie
Hi CC: I've already put more than my two cents in on your questions about XLS vs. Touring, but one thing I haven'tmentioned was the recent Cnsmr Rprts article on VSC - very illuminating and essential for anyone who has the intelligence to comprehend the implications of having it vs. not. Again, I love the Touring - slightly cheaper, better suspension, xenon lights, but w/o VSC it was a no-sale because safety is too important to me. Regards, Deanie
We have a 2000 Avalon XLS. We bought it in April 2000 for about $750 over invoice. It had most everything you could get inclduing VSC. In the first few months it had a few nickety problems, a squeak here, a rattle there. Toyota was VERY responsive, fixed everything to our satisfaction. We bought a platinum extended warranty from Springfield, VA Toyota some time later for $750.
I watched many of the discussions then about dealers and deals. There were shortages here and there for the XLS - prices varied a lot. Lots of questionable dealer add-ons in the Southeast and Gulf States zones were discussed - like fabric sealer packages and add on wheels.
But after a few months, things calmed down. Initial market demand was sated and Toyota worked out many production bugs.
Toyota is going to be making this version of the Avalon for typically 5 years. If you are patient you are likely to get a better deal and lower level of bugs on your new Avalon.
Yeah, my "confession" was intended more as a concession as opposed to an apology. And yes, I'm in agreement with you when it comes to the Infiniti G35. As far as the TL: I do remember reading about that in CR (although, I didn't realize that their quality issues were getting that much worse.
Also, the Audi's potential for electrical problems has troubled me as well. Yes, it's definitely beautiful. If there were an Audi that had sufficient horsepower (around 250 HP), more space inside, and a level of reliability that I could trust: I'd definitely be considering it.
And yes, I am going to do my best at negotiating a better offer. I will actually be buying the car between mid October and mid November (which is when I will have a sufficient down payment saved up), so I will have more than enough time to play my cards right.
And thanks for the advice on the 401K/IRA. Even after I have begun monthly payments on the Avalon Limited, I'll be in decent enough shape to begin investments.
>I know you don't mean to be advertising for Toyota, thats why I thought what you did >say was from your honest due diligence and why it would be a great marketing tool for >them. Also because of your thoughtful research as a young man who did the time >analyzing what you think would be a great car only shows how bright and thoughtful >you are, and not being carried away by a name plate that you don't think is worth any >extra 10 grand or more. So yes, your are thoughtful and very mature for your age, and I >respectfully mean everything I said.
Ah, ok thanks then. I must admit though, that I really do wish the European cars were more reliable, because they really do look nice. But, it is apparent that both Toyota and Lexus are starting to make their cars look more visually appealing. The new Avalon is a testament to that.
Hi Ryandse: With Toyota quality/reliability as its second biggest asset (280hp is first), the Avalon is almost a no-brainer. Some might argue, "Hey, I owned a BMW or Audi and never had a problem", but so what. Its all about probability. The odds of getting a reliable (extremely minor if any problems) european car are substantially less than if you buy Totoyta/Honda/etc. That's a fact, and smarter consumers have, over time, voted with their checkbooks.
The Europeans are going to have to repond to their well-publicized quality/reliability problems as Lexus is setting up shop in Europe. If Daimler-Chrysler, Volks/Audi, BMW, etc think that they'll be "okay" when Lexus invades, they've got another thing coming. Companies such as Lexus, Acura and Infinity grew and developed into what they are today here in the U.S. almost completely at the expense of the European brands. They may turn a blind eye now, but it'll only get poked out later.
What Europe needs to do is extend their respective current offerings one additional model year than originally planned, and invest most of the freed up financial resources in R&D, Tearing down Hondas/Toyotas/etc to see why they are more reliable (and preferred by wiser consumers here in the U.S.), and then have their engineers adapt or change such systems (probably electrical wiring harnesses, computer hardware, and software) to accommodate the superior and more reliable Japanese branded products.
Has anyone seen a 2005 Avalon XL with the JBL stereo option?
My wife and I have contracted to buy a model that supposedly has this, but both the Avalon brochure and Toyota website indicate that it is not possible to order the JBL option on the XL model.
I appreciate your comments on the potential wear and damage to the automatic transmission that the "neutral coasting method" could cause. That does it -- I won't use the NCM any more!
I'm really glad that we had this discussion earlier today and want to thank again tunin, dmarcus48, joedbob, and now Deanie for taking the time to raise your concerns. You may have saved me from an expensive transmission repair someday and, more immediately, you probably saved me from getting a speeding ticket this afternoon!
Right after our forum exchanges earlier today, I was starting to come down a long hill. This time I was in Drive (not Neutral) and about to test the D+/D- mode, when a BMW coming up the hill seemed to flash his/her headlights at me. At first I thought it was his/her self-leveling headlights, but soon after, I saw two police cruisers off the road to the right, an officer holding a speed gun and another officer by a stopped yellow two-seater convertible (that I recall having left in the dust on another occasion...). Naturally, they were hiding at the steepest part, where the road also turns and you couldn't see them until you were pretty much next to them. Had this happened yesterday, when I was still testing the "neutral coasting method" I would have been going way too fast to reduce my speed discreetly at that point. But today I was testing the "manual" option and was coming down the hill in 3rd gear, not that fast, so I bumped it to 2nd which allowed me to quickly reduce my speed to something acceptable without even touching the brakes. I was able to politely nod at the officer as I drove serenely by her. I saw in the mirror that she turned to look at me/my car; I was a bit worried to be mistaken for a 7-series BMW, but nothing happened. Whew...
So you see, Deanie, you have helped a lot. And I agree, who cares if this method uses up a bit more gas!
hi there paul_P its available but I dont think so in the states!! we have it here in Bahrain (Persian Gulf) the XL trim with the 12 speaker JBL sound system
With Toyota quality/reliability as its second biggest asset (280hp is first), the Avalon is almost a no-brainer.
Personally, I would rank them in reverse order. But, other than that, no disagreement here.
Some might argue, "Hey, I owned a BMW or Audi and never had a problem", but so what. Its all about probability. The odds of getting a reliable (extremely minor if any problems) european car are substantially less than if you buy Toyota/Honda/etc.
Right, these folks are often falling a victim to taking these successful instances as "false positives". And I just love how people will defend these European cars euphemistically by saying they are "expensive to maintain". Such folks will never admit that all this "maintenance" wouldn't have to happen if they were probably engineered in the first place.
What Europe needs to do is extend their respective current offerings one additional model year than originally planned, and invest most of the freed up financial resources in R&D
Interesting, that's good thinking. Honestly, I think they are in the best position to do this: given that they seem to have relatively extensive product lines. I'd like to see them get past their egos and actually do this, but that remains to be seen.
Tearing down Hondas/Toyotas/etc to see why they are more reliable (and preferred by wiser consumers here in the U.S.)
Yes, I think this would help. But, in order to do this, as you basically mentioned: they need to invest more in Quality Assurance. This includes expanding their testing into countries that are importing their vehicles. Why is this important? Well, Audi's A6 Wagon had to be recalled due to the fuel gauges malfunctioning because of the large amount of sulfur that is often present in US gasoline.
... electrical wiring harnesses, computer hardware, and software ...
Actually, one thing that concerns me (a little) is that the Toyota Avalon Limited has perhaps the most sophisticated collection of electronics than their other vehicles, thus increasing the chances of electrical failure. Granted, such is a lot better than having the transmission blow itself out of its misery, while traveling on the freeway (yes, I've been in a Mercury Sable that did this), but it is still something to think about.
So, yes, I have faith in Toyota's reliability: but with the level of complexity in the Avalon Limited and the fact that I am a believer in extended service plans, I will probably get Toyota's "Platinum" plan with mine.
"owned my XLS for almost a month. It has few faults "
Hi its a 05 right? what kind of faults? is it big or minor faults? coz im planning to buy 1 but I wish we can get the option list that u guys have in north america!! we have it here in Bahrain (Persian Gulf) in 2 trims XL & limited they cost $ 27G & 33G respcitivly we dont have the DVD navigation , Dyanmaic laser cruise control nor VSC but we can have the XL trim with the JBL sound system & HID lights as standard option
Congrats. on your purchase. Your car's interior is grey, right? I just noticed on the Toyota website that there are 2 fabric choices, grey and beige. I would go with the grey personally. Ronharv, I also liked the pictures of the vehicle from the other person that posts here. Did you see it?
Anyway, I'm still waiting towards the end of this month if I pull the trigger at all.
Havalongavalon, Here's another issue to mention that I have experienced, as well as read about on this message board. On my 05 Avalon Limited... There seems to be a squeak on or about where the right passenger side of the dashboard meets the windshield. In the early morning when I first get in the vehicle it's cooler outside and I do not notice any squeaks from that area on the commute to work. I park my car in a garage for the day and once I get underway for the commute home and hit a few bumps it starts squeaking. I assume it must be due to the expansion of the dash from being cooler in the am and warmer in the evening after sitting in a warm garage all day.
For the tiny band of '05 XL owners, I've got a tire query: What brand of 16" tires came with your car (they vary around the country), and what is Toyota's recommended tire pressure? From what I've been reading about tires, the manufacturer's recommended tire pressure for a given vehicle remains the same regardless of tire brand, as long tire size remains consistent. That'd mean all XL's would have 29 PSI recommended (as with my Bridgestone Potenza RE92's), regardless of tire brand. (And I must say that 29 PSI delivers even a smoother ride than the several pounds more that issued from the dealership.) My puzzlement derives from the fact that different tires are built differently, so the one-PSI-fits-all reasoning doesn't seem exactly logical. (My calls to tire outlets have produced little more than a "We use 35 PSI on all tires regardless.") I consider this a fairly important question because tires have so much to do with ride quality, noise, safety in weather, handling, and braking.
That really would be a great option; I'm hoping to find out that they added that option too. I'd also like leather wrapped steering wheel on this. Otherwise, if the darker gray fabric looks nice (anyone seen this who could offer an opinion?), the XL seems great to me.
That really would be a great option; I'm hoping to find out that they added that option too. I'd also like leather wrapped steering wheel on this. Otherwise, if the darker gray fabric looks nice (anyone seen this who could offer an opinion?), the XL seems great to me.
Honestly, I think you would be hard-pressed to get either of these options on the XL trim, especially given the price-break that you get with the XL. But, given I have actually seen both the Limited and the XL, I have to say that the XL is quite nice. Even though I prefer the leather seats (feel free to call me a snob), the cloth seats are quite comfy. One thing that dissapointed me a little is that even though the XL seats are adjustable but they aren't power adjustable. At any rate, If you are happy with what the XL provides, I say go for it. Of course if you really want the JBL Stereo option and leather wrapped steering you could always go for the Touring.
We ordered a 2005 XLS with the JBL upgrade, rear spoiler and floor mats. Everything else was standard. Ordered it in Blizzard White Pearl with Titanium Gray leather. Beautiful car. Came in with 4.6 miles on the odometer. This is my wife's retirement car. She absolutely loves it! Everything she wanted. And this comes from a woman who sold her 2001 Ford Explorer Sport Trac. I haven't driven the car (she keeps insisting that I drive it, but this is her car). I'll move it long enough to put Mobil1 5W-30 and WIX filter on it when it is time. Should last her a long time - since work is only 1, that's right, 1 mile away. I'm very happy for her. Got some really thick clear plastic floor mats to protect the carpeted floor mats. Overall, a good choice - even though we didn't get a discount.
Comments
You need to reread the posts from agent and get them straight before replying. As far as "young" getting this Avolon I've seen a very Hunky guy driving one.
mmg1
The 16" tires are Bridgestone Potenza RE92's. (Tirerack.com has review after review that excoriates them, unfortunately.) Here's my question. Both the handbook and the sticker in the inside door panel say 29 psi for the tires. I've never had a tire that needed so little pressure. But maybe the RE92's are getting a bad rap (mainly for hydroplaning)because users are inserting too much air. I've got 32 psi in them now but will drop to 29 after I post this. Any thoughts based on real information? Other point: The rear window is wildly warped, at least if viewed for more than the usual glance through the rearview mirror. I don't know if it's worth making a fuss about. Everything else is just fine and ergonomically very impressive. I love the controls for audio and air on the steering wheel.
Next time I wash my car I'll watch for any remaining soapsuds or persistent dripping down the bumpers.
havalongavalon
Is anyone aware of whether this is a mechanically safe or unsafe practice? Obviously this is an important thing to clarify.
Thanks again,
havalongavalon
To follow up on your observation about distortion through the rear window: when I look through the rear view mirror, the top 1-2" of the rear glass appears quite distorted, but I don't think it's a serious issue while driving.
There is also some distortion in the windshield when I look through the far right region. This is only noticeable when moving your head back and forth but it is not of consequence, since the images of objects tend to move a lot more while driving.
havalongavalon
I think this blind spot problem is worse in the 2005 Avalon than it was in my 1997 Camry because of the higher shoulders in the Avalon, that cause the outside mirrors to sit relatively higher than in cars with lower shoulder level, and therefore interfere more with lateral visibility. This probably also happens in other new cars with similar body styles. Something to be aware of, when you trade after 8 or so years.
havalongavalon
I took the liberty to copy your image below.
havalongavalon
Well up till now I have been riding in the front seat where I can stretch out and almost fall asleep if I put the seatback down slightly. I will have to try out the back seat to see how comfortable they really are. I was going to mention to all who might be interested, that I had asked my dealer for the instructions on replacing the oil filter element in my new Avalon. He had his service dept print out a copy of the section under lubrication, pages 3119 to 3121. However there is no mention of how to reset the vehicle's computer. I am going to have to ask the dealer how to do this. After the dealer does my first oil change, I plan to do future oil and filter changes myself. I will have to obtain the kit which has the pipe and hose which is inserted into the oil filter cap to drain the filter housing. If I had a scanner I would copy and post these instructions online, however your dealer should be able to copy these instructions for you.
Take care!!!
gladiator99
I tried coasting once in my 2002 XLE Camry and the Engine Warning Light came on and wouldn't reset. I took it to the dealer and was told this practice could harm the transmission. I don't know if this would apply to the new Avalon or not but I think I'll play it safe just in case for the minimal savings involved.
Thanks for all your great posts.
Depending on terrain the savings can be considerable, of the order of 15% in my test consisting of boulevard and low-traffic street driving at 30-60 mph, with the elevation changing up and down by as much as 1200 ft at a time.
havalongavalon
Anyone else who read my first post on this topic, please take note of these additional comments!
havalongavalon
Good luck.
Ed
Under (n) Engine Oil Replacement Reminder Light ( For Vehicles sold in U.S.A )
In that case, I guess I'll have to scrap my plans on getting the 2005 Avalon. After all despite the fact that all my friends find this car to be very attractive, I can't possibly consider getting it if bwia doesn't like how it looks.
No, as a lad that's fresh out of college, I should be guzzling gas like their is no tomorrow. In which case an Infiniti M45 at 17 mpg/23 mpg sounds ideal. I mean let's face it: I should be getting a car that will allow me to blaze down the highway at 120, with my M.C. Hammer stormin' through the sound system. That should fit nicely in the groovy retro look inside the Infiniti sedans.
But, why should I care about reliability? Maybe, I should get myself a slick new BMW and watch my bank account balance drop as I have to take it in the shop every other week. So never mind that Toyota's reliability blows all of the other manufacturers out of the water (with the sole exception of Honda).
Thanks bwia for the refreshing view. It will surely have an impact on my decision.
And yes, it's definitely a looker. On one instance, I literally saw one of the Lexus LS's two cars behind the Avalon 2005, and at that point I realized how much the Avalon 2005 looks like the Lexus LS.
As far as the Camry goes: yeah, it's a great car but there are just so many on the road. Seeing only a handful of the new Avalon's on the road - it will be great to have a car that is more unique.
Also, it turns out that I have my eye's on getting a Phantom Grey Limited. Plus, I like rear spoiler. Unlike many cars, where the spoiler sticks out to much (e.g. the Subaru's), it adds an additional touch of sportiness to the car. By the way, one quick question: the local dealership here likes to load their Avalon Limiteds up (and that includes the spoiler, floor-mat package, and remote starter). Well, I would like all of that, except possibly the remote starter (I just don't need it enough to pay an extra $500). You think I could ask them to remove it?
At any rate, asides from being my commuting vehicle, I plan to take it on plenty of trips to the coast (I live in San Jose) and even down to Oregon, at some point. So, the fact that the Avalon Limited is so comfortable will make this very pleasurable.
Tom
Very thorough analysis of the automatic transmission "neutral coasting method" (NCM). I used to do this a lot before I became more of a "car guy" after college and learned that each time you switch from drive to neutral or from neutral to drive, you engage or disengage the automatic clutch inside your transmission, putting extra wear on that part of the transmission.
Brake pads and rotors are cheap to replace - removing the auto tranny, opening it up and replacing the automatic clutch is not. The cost of gas saved may never exceed the costs of brake wear (pads/rotors/caliper wear), transmission wear (auto clutch) and the inevitable inconvenience and downtime of having your Avalon in the garage while such work eventually has to be done.
Another method I selectively used to maximize mpg (when it won't substantially interfere with surrounding traffic flow) is to drive at slightly slower speeds around town so as to minimize brake usage. When approaching a traffic light (knowing its daypart light cycles during weekdays and weekends helps), do so at a speed low enough so that when you've reached the intersection or the last car in front of you at that light, the light will have already changed. As such, any car in front of you has already started to move so you benefit from your car's existing momentum without having had to shfit your transmission manually into neutral and then back again into drive to get your car back up to speed.
Obviously this won't work at all lights or even at most lights, but for those lights with which you're most familiar, you'll find this method will save you some gas, and timed properly, won't annoy too many people or put any undue wear on your Avalon. Comments anyone?
Hope I've helped.
Regards,
Deanie
You don't need to make any apologies for wanting an Avalon at any trim level. I've got two kids, I'm 36, (but 19 at heart accoring to my wife), and I've owned my XLS for almost a month. It has few faults, matches the G35 in HP, slight betters it in reliablity, has a much more cavernous and slightly nicer-looking interior, will likely have a better long-term resale value than G35, but loses in the handling department (Tokico struts/suspension bushings will do much to remedy that when they start making stuff for the '05 Avalon).
As to the others, TL's reliability has nose-dived (check consumer reports and the TL "problems" forum herre on edmunds), and the Audi is a beautiful, well-screwed-together piece of fine furniture that will likely have electrical problems (again check CR and the Audi forum) and can be left in the dust any time an Avalon owner decides to leave one there.
Enjoy the Limited, but don't pay anywhere near MSRP - at your age, the extra grand or two you'll save by being patient and negotiating wisely could mean a lot in the long run (put that $$$ into a 401K or IRA and see what it'll do in 10,20,30 yrs). Enjoy. Hope I've helped.
Regards,
Deanie
I've already put more than my two cents in on your questions about XLS vs. Touring, but one thing I haven'tmentioned was the recent Cnsmr Rprts article on VSC - very illuminating and essential for anyone who has the intelligence to comprehend the implications of having it vs. not. Again, I love the Touring - slightly cheaper, better suspension, xenon lights, but w/o VSC it was a no-sale because safety is too important to me.
Regards,
Deanie
I watched many of the discussions then about dealers and deals. There were shortages here and there for the XLS - prices varied a lot. Lots of questionable dealer add-ons in the Southeast and Gulf States zones were discussed - like fabric sealer packages and add on wheels.
But after a few months, things calmed down. Initial market demand was sated and Toyota worked out many production bugs.
Toyota is going to be making this version of the Avalon for typically 5 years. If you are patient you are likely to get a better deal and lower level of bugs on your new Avalon.
Also, the Audi's potential for electrical problems has troubled me as well. Yes, it's definitely beautiful. If there were an Audi that had sufficient horsepower (around 250 HP), more space inside, and a level of reliability that I could trust: I'd definitely be considering it.
And yes, I am going to do my best at negotiating a better offer. I will actually be buying the car between mid October and mid November (which is when I will have a sufficient down payment saved up), so I will have more than enough time to play my cards right.
And thanks for the advice on the 401K/IRA. Even after I have begun monthly payments on the Avalon Limited, I'll be in decent enough shape to begin investments.
Thanks a bunch,
Ryan
Ah, ok thanks then. I must admit though, that I really do wish the European cars were more reliable, because they really do look nice. But, it is apparent that both Toyota and Lexus are starting to make their cars look more visually appealing. The new Avalon is a testament to that.
With Toyota quality/reliability as its second biggest asset (280hp is first), the Avalon is almost a no-brainer. Some might argue, "Hey, I owned a BMW or Audi and never had a problem", but so what. Its all about probability. The odds of getting a reliable (extremely minor if any problems) european car are substantially less than if you buy Totoyta/Honda/etc. That's a fact, and smarter consumers have, over time, voted with their checkbooks.
The Europeans are going to have to repond to their well-publicized quality/reliability problems as Lexus is setting up shop in Europe. If Daimler-Chrysler, Volks/Audi, BMW, etc think that they'll be "okay" when Lexus invades, they've got another thing coming. Companies such as Lexus, Acura and Infinity grew and developed into what they are today here in the U.S. almost completely at the expense of the European brands. They may turn a blind eye now, but it'll only get poked out later.
What Europe needs to do is extend their respective current offerings one additional model year than originally planned, and invest most of the freed up financial resources in R&D, Tearing down Hondas/Toyotas/etc to see why they are more reliable (and preferred by wiser consumers here in the U.S.), and then have their engineers adapt or change such systems (probably electrical wiring harnesses, computer hardware, and software) to accommodate the superior and more reliable Japanese branded products.
End of rant. Regards,
Deanie
My wife and I have contracted to buy a model that supposedly has this, but both the Avalon brochure and Toyota website indicate that it is not possible to order the JBL option on the XL model.
Thanks in advance,
- Paul
I appreciate your comments on the potential wear and damage to the automatic transmission that the "neutral coasting method" could cause. That does it -- I won't use the NCM any more!
I'm really glad that we had this discussion earlier today and want to thank again tunin, dmarcus48, joedbob, and now Deanie for taking the time to raise your concerns. You may have saved me from an expensive transmission repair someday and, more immediately, you probably saved me from getting a speeding ticket this afternoon!
Right after our forum exchanges earlier today, I was starting to come down a long hill. This time I was in Drive (not Neutral) and about to test the D+/D- mode, when a BMW coming up the hill seemed to flash his/her headlights at me. At first I thought it was his/her self-leveling headlights, but soon after, I saw two police cruisers off the road to the right, an officer holding a speed gun and another officer by a stopped yellow two-seater convertible (that I recall having left in the dust on another occasion...). Naturally, they were hiding at the steepest part, where the road also turns and you couldn't see them until you were pretty much next to them. Had this happened yesterday, when I was still testing the "neutral coasting method" I would have been going way too fast to reduce my speed discreetly at that point. But today I was testing the "manual" option and was coming down the hill in 3rd gear, not that fast, so I bumped it to 2nd which allowed me to quickly reduce my speed to something acceptable without even touching the brakes. I was able to politely nod at the officer as I drove serenely by her. I saw in the mirror that she turned to look at me/my car; I was a bit worried to be mistaken for a 7-series BMW, but nothing happened. Whew...
So you see, Deanie, you have helped a lot. And I agree, who cares if this method uses up a bit more gas!
Take care,
havalongavalon
Personally, I would rank them in reverse order. But, other than that, no disagreement here.
Some might argue, "Hey, I owned a BMW or Audi and never had a problem", but so what. Its all about probability. The odds of getting a reliable (extremely minor if any problems) european car are substantially less than if you buy Toyota/Honda/etc.
Right, these folks are often falling a victim to taking these successful instances as "false positives". And I just love how people will defend these European cars euphemistically by saying they are "expensive to maintain". Such folks will never admit that all this "maintenance" wouldn't have to happen if they were probably engineered in the first place.
What Europe needs to do is extend their respective current offerings one additional model year than originally planned, and invest most of the freed up financial resources in R&D
Interesting, that's good thinking. Honestly, I think they are in the best position to do this: given that they seem to have relatively extensive product lines. I'd like to see them get past their egos and actually do this, but that remains to be seen.
Tearing down Hondas/Toyotas/etc to see why they are more reliable (and preferred by wiser consumers here in the U.S.)
Yes, I think this would help. But, in order to do this, as you basically mentioned: they need to invest more in Quality Assurance. This includes expanding their testing into countries that are importing their vehicles. Why is this important? Well, Audi's A6 Wagon had to be recalled due to the fuel gauges malfunctioning because of the large amount of sulfur that is often present in US gasoline.
... electrical wiring harnesses, computer hardware, and software ...
Actually, one thing that concerns me (a little) is that the Toyota Avalon Limited has perhaps the most sophisticated collection of electronics than their other vehicles, thus increasing the chances of electrical failure. Granted, such is a lot better than having the transmission blow itself out of its misery, while traveling on the freeway (yes, I've been in a Mercury Sable that did this), but it is still something to think about.
So, yes, I have faith in Toyota's reliability: but with the level of complexity in the Avalon Limited and the fact that I am a believer in extended service plans, I will probably get Toyota's "Platinum" plan with mine.
Hi its a 05 right? what kind of faults? is it big or minor faults? coz im planning to buy 1
MikeS.
Anyway, I'm still waiting towards the end of this month if I pull the trigger at all.
Here's another issue to mention that I have experienced, as well as read about on this message board. On my 05 Avalon Limited...
There seems to be a squeak on or about where the right passenger side of the dashboard meets the windshield. In the early morning when I first get in the vehicle it's cooler outside and I do not notice any squeaks from that area on the commute to work.
I park my car in a garage for the day and once I get underway for the commute home and hit a few bumps it starts squeaking.
I assume it must be due to the expansion of the dash from being cooler in the am and warmer in the evening after sitting in a warm garage all day.
Honestly, I think you would be hard-pressed to get either of these options on the XL trim, especially given the price-break that you get with the XL. But, given I have actually seen both the Limited and the XL, I have to say that the XL is quite nice. Even though I prefer the leather seats (feel free to call me a snob), the cloth seats are quite comfy. One thing that dissapointed me a little is that even though the XL seats are adjustable but they aren't power adjustable. At any rate, If you are happy with what the XL provides, I say go for it. Of course if you really want the JBL Stereo option and leather wrapped steering you could always go for the Touring.