The Avalon is NOT a Pronard. A Pronard is an Avalon! Exported to Japan. You guys are overlooking the fact that the Avalon is about as American as a car can get. It's not just built here, it is "drawn" here! All we have to do is make sure the Toyo engine fits under the hood. I look forward to a new design too, but keep this in mind when we're guessing! -nomad56-
Is it possible that by the fall of 2004 that Toyota Avalon fans will be smiling?......Is it possible that our Avalon will look and be equipped anything like that one?......Somebody please say yes
That Australian model is the same basic design as the 95-99 US generation. Compare the interior door panels (very clear) and the exterior window shapes. I find it odd that this generation is still sold in Australia.
Yes, I agree with coolguy, this is the previous generation Avalon. Some car companies do that, meaning that they put out a "new" car into a foreign market that was a previous generation car her in the U.S.
Coolguy is right. The Ausie Avy is a generation behind the US. It is a variation on the US model, that is built in Australia. Their version is designed there! Incidentally, it does not sell very well in AU.
Though it may be the next Avalon, it may not be. It may just be the new US Toyota Crown. But that doesn't exactly mean it is coming here. First, I don't think Toyota would like to lure customers away from the upcoming GS. The new Crown in Japan shares many parts with the Aristo. They also have the same engines and same V8s available. The interior look too nice, even for Toyota. But, you never know what's going to happen!
Avalon is the only car that Toyota does not have to offer any rebates or special finance deals on to the public. Go into a dealer, all the specials don't apply to Avalon (rebates, finance deals). The car is a winner, good profit maker, with little need to over advertise or market. Consumer Reports does a fine job of this for them. Toyota will soon displace one of the big three this year. Fleets are buying in droves over Ford's and Chevy. They won't let this model go. Great resale, great warranty, great dependability. This is their new niche. Love my 2004. Style is somewhat dated, drives like a DeVille, but Toyota will keep upgrading and improving the style. Its a nice cush mobile, great company car! My choice was Avalon, Chrysler 300M, Pontiac Bonnevile or a Ford Explorer (through my employer leasing company). Also the Cadi CTS was in there, but the company thought it was too showy (the lease was less than Avalon). Had to go with the Avalon. Would have took the Caddy if they let me. Good ride to give to the kids when done. After learining the GPS, its great. I'm 46, and feel like the target market may be a bit older, but I still love it, probably be 56 when it leaves the house.
Thats a very broad (and incorrect) statement about Toyota and incentives. Depending on region, time of year, market conditions, and model... Toyota may or may not offer incentives.
Its the other way around, Japan gets a reskinned version of the Avalon, which was designed and originally developed for the American market. The new Avalon will be on the current generation Camry platform, whereas the current Avalon is on the 97-01 Camry platform (which itself was a pretty extensive revision of the 92-96 version of the Camry).
Is Toyota going to save anything for Chicago or New York? To make it more exciting (since I go to N.Y. every year) it makes sense that Toyota might showcase it. You're probably saying.. .how did you know that? Well, look what happened. The Aveo was released at Chicago, and I got no word once so ever that it was coming or going to be released there. We wouldn't of known...
I'm guessing not that many people care about the Aveo. Except Enterprise Rental, whose Aveos (two of 'em) are the only ones Ive seen on the road here in Central Jersey.
There is a new Tacoma that Toyota will need to debut SOMEWHERE, given that Nissan just released the skinny on the new Frontier. Redesigns for Corolla, Camry, and Avalon (along with Hondas Civic and Accord) are typically hush-hush, with little autoshow fanfare.
I just returned from a two week vacation (Christmas and New Year) in Singapore. Over there the Crown is considered a status symbol. The Crown Majesta comes with the same 4.3L V8 found in the Lexus LS430 and GS430. All other Crown models come with the 3.0 Liter Inline 6 found in the Lexus IS and GS300. The Majesta is rated at 270 Hp while the six cylinder versions are rated at 220 Hp. My uncle, who lives in Singapore owns a Majesta. Beautiful car. Wonder why Toyota doesn't see it fit to sell it here?
well i guess this post should have been made a few posts before but i just felt like i had to say this anyway
It seems that Australia is almost ALWAYS getting the old versions of cars/specs and not staying up-to date with the Toyota in the US. Things such as 5 Speed ECT-i and 3.3L engines in our camrys, it just really bugs me that we're SO behind in all this stuff.
This is my first time here at edmunds.com. I noticed a discussion of the new avalon body style. I currently drive a 1995 Avalon XLS. I'm patiently waiting to see what the 2005 Avalon will look like. That announcement may be coming to the Chicago Auto Show in February. Here is an excerpt from the 2004 Chicago Auto Show "The remainder of the morning will feature world introduction product reveals from Toyota". Key words here are "world introduction". I'm hoping that world introduction product will be the 2005 Avalon, by the way, I live in the Chicago area.
Ah the Crown - what a beautiful car! Just to clarify, I think you were talking of the previous generation Crown which ended its model year for 2003. The 04 Crown (known as the Crown concept on toyota.com) is the newest Crown in Japan. The Crown and GS are both on the same platform (from what I've heard) but the Crown is supposed to have more luxury. In Japan, the Crown is offered with a 3.0L inline 6 (same as the GS here) but with twin turbos producing more than 250HP. It also has a V8 available. Crown is known as Japan's ultimate luxury car, even though it is not the most luxurious. I guess it's their version of the "American Cadillac". I wish it came here though!
as a Yank who lived in your beautiful country for a few years (70's), I agree that you are being screwed re availability of some options on cars being sold both north and south. That said, the U.S. is importing a Holden virtually unchanged as the new Pontiac GTO, a sacred name in U.S. muscle car history, and which has already been minimized by some U.S. auto magazines. In my humble opinion, neither the U.S. nor Australia has a monopoly on "good". We may have more auto options (we have 10X population), but you have MANY more places to exercise the horses you are granted. I recall driving the Adelaide to Alice road and not seeing ANYTHING/ANYONE for more than 300Km at a stretch. You CANNOT do that in the U.S. no matter where you are (and could not even in those times). Good luck and good on ya, mate....
anyway, its pretty frustrating seeing all this good stuff overseas while we get this "last generation" stuff. Just makes me wanna import one, although servicing might be a problem.
If Toyota does not plan to bring the Crown Concept (or a *reasonable* facsimile) to America, what was the point of featuring the car on the Toyota USA website?
The Crown has a 50/50 chance of coming as a Toyota to North America. I, personally, think it won't come to America because it's more luxurious than a Lexus GS, which it shares most of its components with.
Why are they calling this car the "Concept"? It has been around for almost 30 years. If this replaces the Avalon as Toyota's flagship sedan it would be great. Right now, the Crown is only sold in the East Asian markets. Toyota should also consider bringing the Crown Majesta to North America. It could be a lower priced alternative to the Lexus LS 430 just like the Camry is to the ES300/330.
This is ALL I know: It is called THE Concept. It is NOT "A" concept car. "Concept" was used because it had not been named and is part of the rollout of the "LEXUS" brandname in Japan. I don't know if it will be a Toyo, or Lexus???? At the 2003 Tokyo auto show, Toyota displayed the Concept as "..returning to the export markets!" ...in 2005. Which export markets, however, were NOT indicated?????
Some listed ammenities:
... 3.3-liter V6 with VVT-i and six-speed automatic transmission (Sequential Shiftmatic)...
...vehicle-movement control based on VDM, pre-crash safety system, lane-keeping assistance, radar cruise control...
A rear view picture of the 2006 Avalon is in the latest issue of Motor Trend. Can't tell much except that it has dual tail pipes and backup lights integrated with the tail lights. Although it is listed as a 2006, the article says it will likely be an early intro in 2005, as it looks well along in the disign
Well, the rumored '05 redesign is not listed for either the Chicago or NY auto shows. I'm beginning to doubt whether the redesign will even happen for '05.
Toyota, historically, does not introduce its mainstream vehicle redesigns at major auto shows that are many months prior to the models introduction. It risks cannabalizing sales of its top brand recognition models. Take for example, the redesigned 2003 Corolla which did not hit the auto show circuit with fanfare, nor did the redesigned 2002 Camry. Honda takes similar measures with its Civic and Accord. Finally, the redesigned 00 Avalon was not introed at an auto show either.
All I'm saying is that just because the redesigned Avalon is not scheduled to make an auto show intro, does not mean you will not see a new one in the Fall. In fact, I dont believe the MT blurb about introduction as a 2006 model. This seems not to make sense to me.
For all intents and purposes, it is logical to believe that the next Avalon will use the 3.3L from the Camry SE V6, Solara V6 models, etc. Toyota already produces this engine, and makes the current Avalon alongside those cars at TMMK. I can't imagine there would be any production/manufacturing limitation to introducing the Avalon in the Fall as an 05 model.
Certainly, I may be wrong, but it doesnt seem to make sense to delay the intro, with the current Avalon behind the curve in terms of power, safety, features, etc, especially with the impending introduction of the able Ford Five-Hundred/Mercury Montego, Chrysler 300, and the bargain hunters delight, Kia Amanti.
Looks Ok, but the powertrain is a dud. Same 200 Hp and ft-lb like the Taurus. Why didn't they just called it the Taurus anyway? They could at least have used the higher output V6 from the Lincoln LS. Given that the car is big and heavy (around 3600 lbs) acceleration probably won't be the car's strength. It is kind of hard to imagine this car competing against the Avalon.
Anyway, the new Ford 500 will have a new 6-speed tranny or a CVT, and AWD option. Also, next year Ford will introduce a brand new engine with much more output than the current Duratec.
You can read more about that in the Ford Five Hundred future models message board.
I believe MT made a mistake about the redesigned Avalon coming out as a '06 model. Currently Toyota is selling the '03 Avalon as a '04 Avalon as it prepares to release the redesigned '05 Avalon in the fall.
production on the Avalon starts January 3, 2005. This i know for fact. My understanding is that the vehicle is gonna have dual exhaust and will be running approximately 270hp, from a 3.5. I believe one of the upcoming Lexus' will be utilizing this engine.
Not being a forecaster, not gambler, those last two posts seem dreamlike. While, anyone would say very nice, the Toyota Corp. I know would more likely use the engine they are using in the Lexus 330 and probably would not have true dual exhausts, more like exhaust tips or tailpipe and muffler backs. A true dual exhaust would be very costly, to purchase and replace.
You may be right, but I am hard pressed to see Toyota making the Avalon out to be a different auto than it is targeted for, and that is for a full size (large) sedan, not a premium sports sedan.
Dual exhausts, a decrease in fuel economy, no bench seat,premium gas, and you are starting to compete with the mid size Acura instead of the Crown Vic, or Park Ave Ultra. In my humble opinion, they should use the same engine, and put better quality struts, tires, rotors, etc in the model to stay ahead of the pack.
Two reasons come to mind 1. The auto shows come out around the same time, as the car is the "halo" car for Toyota they want to make as big as splash as possible. 2. Toyota has been utlizing a mid year production start for some of their new cars. They will also be able to call it an 06, since 05 comes out in the fall.
Sienna production started Jan 2003 Corolla/Matrix March/April Spyder April Scion XA/XB April Scion TC June
You get the idea. Something new in different months so that the cars do not get stuck in the fall like all the other cars.
I called a Toyota dealership yesterday, he told me that a lot of the information is true in regards to the dual exhausts, and the 270 hp engine. What go my attention is the fact that he said the car would be coming out next year as supposed to this year. He also told me that no one has seen concept or spy photos of the car, but the salesman talked to his general manager, and his manager said think of the 2005 Avalon as a cross between a BMW 745 and a Lexus GS 300
>> I called a Toyota dealership yesterday, he told me that a lot of the information is true in regards to the dual exhausts, and the 270 hp engine.
I'm surprised the current Toyota 3.3 is such a small increase in capacity and horsepower. We now have the Nissan 3.5 engine and Honda's reply with increased horsepower. I can just see someone comparison shopping and being told by competing dealers that the Avalon is underpowered.
"The 400h hybrid powertrain combines a powerful electric motor with the highly efficient 3.3-liter V6 engine found in the RX 330 to significantly improve low to mid-speed acceleration and overall fuel efficiency. The system is a "full hybrid," meaning that the RX 400h is capable of operating in separate gas or electric modes, as well as a mode that combines power from both.
The RX 400h will develop a peak system output of approximately 270 horsepower and deliver combined fuel economy significantly better than the current average compact sedan rating of 27.6 miles-per-gallon. Zero-to-sixty acceleration will also improve over the current RX 330's sub-8 second time. The RX 400h with optional all-wheel-drive, which features a rear-drive electric motor, will accelerate quicker yet."
So it looks like Toyota has the technology. I'm not suggesting that the Avalon will be a hybrid, but there's a 270 hp engine available.
I talked to the New Car Sales Manager at the local dealership (who is using a 2004 Avalon) where I bought my new Sienna re the 2005 Avalon, and he just referred me to the Concept Crown on the Toyota website, without specifics. Where is this new info coming from? Earlier posts were talking 230 hp, 5 speed auto like the current Camrys. Is Toyota thinking of competing with the new Acura TL? My wife's one concern is that they don't "design out" that spacious back seat!
Buy I'm going to go with my gut and not believe the 3.5L 270hp V6 rumor until its confirmed by an official Press Release, or something very similar. How could Toyota put a better engine in this vehicle than in the ES330, and the heavier RX/Sienna?
If the Avalon is going to continue to be built in Kentucky, would they move to producing 2.4s, 3.0s, and 3.3s for the Camrys/Solaras, and a 3.5L for the Avalon? That seems like a lot of engine assembly lines in one plant, that hasnt been expanded in a good number of years now. Or will the 3.5Ls be shipped to TMMK from another plant? Seems cost inefficient that way, no?
I can't believe no one has noticed this at all. To start with, Toyota is NOT coming out with a 3.5L engine, but instead a 3.0V6 to replace the 3.0 inline6, and will produce 245 hp instead of the 6's 215-220hp. This is CONFIRMED because the 2006 Lexus GS 300 is coming with is engine along with the 2005/6 Toyota Crown. This new V6 will replace all engines in the Toyota/Lexus stable which are rear-wheel drive and are using the current 3.0L inline 6. Other previous (or still) vehicles with the OLD 3.0L V6 are being replaced by the new 3.3L V6, such as the Lexus ES 330, Lexus RX330 and the Toyota Sienna. The 3.3L V6 will replace the 3.0LV6 vehicles that are front-wheel drive. And the new 3.0L V6 (245hp) will replace 3.0L inline6 vehicles that are rear-wheel drive.
Also, higher output vehicles are also probable for Toyota vehicles and certain for Lexus vehicles. This is because Lexus is confirmed to come out with a division similar to AMG from MB to compete with European supertuned cars. However, Lexus might not choose the familiar route of turbo/superchargers but use hybrid systems which can produce similar results but with lower fuel economy. This is why Toyota might also come out with SOME high performance vehicles.
Comments
There's this car:
http://www.avalon.toyota.com.au/Avalon03/HomePage/0,,,00.html
http://www.avalon.toyota.com.au/Avalon03/Portal/Article/0,1225,18- 4-248-5331,00.html
I still dont see why the Crown concept on www.toyota.com cant be a viable option/possibilty.
~alpha
Love my 2004. Style is somewhat dated, drives like a DeVille, but Toyota will keep upgrading and improving the style. Its a nice cush mobile, great company car! My choice was Avalon, Chrysler 300M, Pontiac Bonnevile or a Ford Explorer (through my employer leasing company). Also the Cadi CTS was in there, but the company thought it was too showy (the lease was less than Avalon). Had to go with the Avalon. Would have took the Caddy if they let me. Good ride to give to the kids when done. After learining the GPS, its great. I'm 46, and feel like the target market may be a bit older, but I still love it, probably be 56 when it leaves the house.
~alpha
~alpha
There is a new Tacoma that Toyota will need to debut SOMEWHERE, given that Nissan just released the skinny on the new Frontier. Redesigns for Corolla, Camry, and Avalon (along with Hondas Civic and Accord) are typically hush-hush, with little autoshow fanfare.
~alpha
It seems that Australia is almost ALWAYS getting the old versions of cars/specs and not staying up-to date with the Toyota in the US. Things such as 5 Speed ECT-i and 3.3L engines in our camrys, it just really bugs me that we're SO behind in all this stuff.
anyway, its pretty frustrating seeing all this good stuff overseas while we get this "last generation" stuff. Just makes me wanna import one, although servicing might be a problem.
Some listed ammenities:
... 3.3-liter V6 with VVT-i and six-speed automatic transmission (Sequential Shiftmatic)...
...vehicle-movement control based on VDM, pre-crash safety system, lane-keeping assistance, radar cruise control...
All I'm saying is that just because the redesigned Avalon is not scheduled to make an auto show intro, does not mean you will not see a new one in the Fall. In fact, I dont believe the MT blurb about introduction as a 2006 model. This seems not to make sense to me.
For all intents and purposes, it is logical to believe that the next Avalon will use the 3.3L from the Camry SE V6, Solara V6 models, etc. Toyota already produces this engine, and makes the current Avalon alongside those cars at TMMK. I can't imagine there would be any production/manufacturing limitation to introducing the Avalon in the Fall as an 05 model.
Certainly, I may be wrong, but it doesnt seem to make sense to delay the intro, with the current Avalon behind the curve in terms of power, safety, features, etc, especially with the impending introduction of the able Ford Five-Hundred/Mercury Montego, Chrysler 300, and the bargain hunters delight, Kia Amanti.
~alpha
You must be kidding...
Anyway, the new Ford 500 will have a new 6-speed tranny or a CVT, and AWD option. Also, next year Ford will introduce a brand new engine with much more output than the current Duratec.
You can read more about that in the Ford Five Hundred future models message board.
Ralph
A toyota audi a6...
http://www.motorcities.com/contents/02KIF090037210.html
Ralph
You may be right, but I am hard pressed to see Toyota making the Avalon out to be a different auto than it is targeted for, and that is for a full size (large) sedan, not a premium sports sedan.
Dual exhausts, a decrease in fuel economy, no bench seat,premium gas, and you are starting to compete with the mid size Acura instead of the Crown Vic, or Park Ave Ultra. In my humble opinion, they should use the same engine, and put better quality struts, tires, rotors, etc in the model to stay ahead of the pack.
Maybe, but I can't see it.
abfisch
1. The auto shows come out around the same time, as the car is the "halo" car for Toyota they want to make as big as splash as possible.
2. Toyota has been utlizing a mid year production start for some of their new cars. They will also be able to call it an 06, since 05 comes out in the fall.
Sienna production started Jan 2003
Corolla/Matrix March/April
Spyder April
Scion XA/XB April
Scion TC June
You get the idea. Something new in different months so that the cars do not get stuck in the fall like all the other cars.
I'm surprised the current Toyota 3.3 is such a small increase in capacity and horsepower. We now have the Nissan 3.5 engine and Honda's reply with increased horsepower. I can just see someone comparison shopping and being told by competing dealers that the Avalon is underpowered.
"The 400h hybrid powertrain combines a powerful electric motor with the highly efficient 3.3-liter V6 engine found in the RX 330 to significantly improve low to mid-speed acceleration and overall fuel efficiency. The system is a "full hybrid," meaning that the RX 400h is capable of operating in separate gas or electric modes, as well as a mode that combines power from both.
The RX 400h will develop a peak system output of approximately 270 horsepower and deliver combined fuel economy significantly better than the current average compact sedan rating of 27.6 miles-per-gallon. Zero-to-sixty acceleration will also improve over the current RX 330's sub-8 second time. The RX 400h with optional all-wheel-drive, which features a rear-drive electric motor, will accelerate quicker yet."
So it looks like Toyota has the technology. I'm not suggesting that the Avalon will be a hybrid, but there's a 270 hp engine available.
If the Avalon is going to continue to be built in Kentucky, would they move to producing 2.4s, 3.0s, and 3.3s for the Camrys/Solaras, and a 3.5L for the Avalon? That seems like a lot of engine assembly lines in one plant, that hasnt been expanded in a good number of years now. Or will the 3.5Ls be shipped to TMMK from another plant? Seems cost inefficient that way, no?
~alpha
To start with, Toyota is NOT coming out with a 3.5L engine, but instead a 3.0V6 to replace the 3.0 inline6, and will produce 245 hp instead of the 6's 215-220hp. This is CONFIRMED because the 2006 Lexus GS 300 is coming with is engine along with the 2005/6 Toyota Crown. This new V6 will replace all engines in the Toyota/Lexus stable which are rear-wheel drive and are using the current 3.0L inline 6.
Other previous (or still) vehicles with the OLD 3.0L V6 are being replaced by the new 3.3L V6, such as the Lexus ES 330, Lexus RX330 and the Toyota Sienna. The 3.3L V6 will replace the 3.0LV6 vehicles that are front-wheel drive. And the new 3.0L V6 (245hp) will replace 3.0L inline6 vehicles that are rear-wheel drive.
Also, higher output vehicles are also probable for Toyota vehicles and certain for Lexus vehicles. This is because Lexus is confirmed to come out with a division similar to AMG from MB to compete with European supertuned cars. However, Lexus might not choose the familiar route of turbo/superchargers but use hybrid systems which can produce similar results but with lower fuel economy. This is why Toyota might also come out with SOME high performance vehicles.