2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

alpha01

Yea, you should try not to lace your posts with know-it-all overtones. I do know exactly what you've stated, which is why I expressed my contentions with the speculation that the Avalon will have a 3.5L V6.

"However, Lexus might not choose the familiar route of turbo/superchargers but use hybrid systems which can produce similar results but with lower fuel economy. "

I assume you mean similar results but with higher fuel economy?

~alpha

fatguycar

I'd like to see a full complement of nighttime illumination for switches inside the car, particularly door handles and window switches. The 1999 base Caravan we owned had this.

And please, PLEASE, keep yellow directionals. I can't believe with the focus on safety in the U.S. that cars flash the brake lights to show a turn. You can't tell whether the driver is braking (and one brake light doesn't work) or it's a turn signal. Big boos to Honda and Audi for using red directionals on models that have yellow directionals elsewhere in the world.

samnoe

Unfortunately, Toyota does not offer lighted controls for power windows, locks & mirror controls. On some Lexus models they do us a "favor" to illuminate the word "Auto" on drivers side power window control. I wonder for what reason they're ignoring that, while Ford's & Chrysler's cars DO have them very nice.

I also agree with the Yellow/Amber signal lamp. It's much safer. I once followed a car with the rear red brake lamp signaling, and I almost hit it - I did not realized he is about to turn. Yellow lamp should be a must.

But so many cars are switching to red signal, as the toyota Sienna (the old generation DID have a yellow light), and so are most Ford models, dropping the yellow and adopt the red. And so are Chrysler & GM.

No idea why. Somebody told me that red is easier for the eyes. But if you're falling asleep while driving, a yellow light flashing in front of you would wake you up, so it's a safety issue.

Unless, of course, you got big LED lamps, like the Cadillac DeVille, then the red lamp is fine.

fndlyfmrflyr

My Avalon has lights for the window switches and door lock switch on the driver's door. No lights for the mirror controls

My PT GT (Chrysler) has lights only for two of the six window switches. No lights for power door locks or mirror controls

My MDX (Acura) has lights for all window switches and the power door lock switches, but none for the mirror controls.

To be candid, I've never missed the lights except for the rear seat power window controls in the PT. They are not located on the door. Until I read post 105 this evening, and then went out and checked the cars, I didn't know all of the control didn't have lights. Manufacturers apparently have figured out that there are enough people like me, that don't look at the switch if it is placed where one expects to find it, to make the decision to save the switch light money.

fatguycar

>> No idea why. Somebody told me that red is easier for the eyes. But if you're falling asleep while driving, a yellow light flashing in front of you would wake you up, so it's a safety issue.

As far as I can see it's simply a cost-saving measure. A cover for the rear lights costs more with three colors than two.

Incidentally, the Dodge Caravan (and presumably other cars) has a rear light that appears to do nothing other than show a turn signal. This may be that the Caravans sold in Europe have a yellow part of the cover, but in the U.S. it's red.

>> Manufacturers apparently have figured out that there are enough people like me, that don't look at the switch if it is placed where one expects to find it, to make the decision to save the switch light money.

The first U.S. car I drove was a Ford Taurus (the first version). It was my mother-in-laws, and in broad daylight most of her friends could not find the interior door handle because it was colored the same as the trim instead of being chrome plated.

abfisch

Forum:

I know this is a 2005 Toyota site, but the posts other than the last page, are so ridiculous that the forum wasn't worth contributing. Finally, the last posts have some meat.

In addition to those parts, you will notice the following.

1. Cruise controls buttons are also not illuminated. Cost must be the issue unless you can see in the dark.

2. In the Lexus, all the window buttons are auto, but in the Avalon just the drivers side. Does it matter??? Depends on how much you want to pay for that.

3. Reading the new CR April 04 issue noted only SLIGHT improvement in performance and mileage of the new Toyota 3.3L engine versus our 3.0L. Not enough in my mind to rush out and buy the latest and greatest.

4. How many of you have the compass in the auto dimming mirror and find it useful. I did not get that option and regret it a little. But the new Lexus 430 has the compass right near the speedo, in the center of the dash pod. Sweet.

"Feed the forum"

abfisch

fndlyfmrflyr

Decontenting. a small item, when multiplied thousands of times adds up to a lot of dollars.

The passenger side door key locks are no longer on some cars. Some tailgates have no key locks either. Fewer switch lights, the second horn, the wear pads for the driver's shoes, and more are examples of little missed items that potentially save the manufacturers $$$.

alpha01

CR's opinions and testing, I never look to their performance data, other than MPG. In that respect, the 3.3L offers 1 MPG better overall, perhaps not much, but none-the-less, an improvement. Drive an 03 ES and then an 04 ES, and the difference in acceleration, especially in passing manuvers, is IMMEDIATELY apparent, and I'm not sure why Consumer Reports calls a half second better to sixty and improved quarter mile, and passing times "only slight". I am waiting for a real magazine, like Car and Driver, to publish its Street Start, QM, and passing times to see just how beneficial the superior 3.3L is.

~alpha

fatguycar

>> Decontenting. a small item, when multiplied thousands of times adds up to a lot of dollars.

As GMC found when they dropped the ABS as standard on many models.

However, people buying an Avalon or a Lexus expect to find a great deal of stuff that is an optional extra on other cars. If you sell a car on the basis that it's fully equipped (as high-end Toyotas and Lexi are) then it had better show it.

I notice that Honda's aim is to have more standard equipment on its models.

andy71

I read in Consumer Digest that the ES330 does 0-60 in 7.2 seconds. The 2002 ES300 they tested did 60 in 8.1 seconds. That's more like a second quicker than the ES300. I think CR steps on the gas like an average owner would which is moderate accleration, while CD really floors the throttle.

alpha01

Does anyone even read that? Why not rely on a REAL car magazine for performance information? (Seriously, I thought Consumer Digest went out of publication? Perhaps you mean Consumer GUIDE? Thats still not the best auto journalism out there....). They are notorious for misinformation. When the Solara debuted for 1999, they touted it as the Celica replacement. yea, right...

~alpha

andy71

You are right Alpha. I should have said Consumer Guide. I think Consumer Guide gave a more positive review of the ES330 than Consumer Report. CG's own test showed a 7.2 second for the ES330 and 7.0 second for the Camry SE.

fndlyfmrflyr

CR does their zero to times from an idle start while most car magazines will use a brake torque (auto transmission) or high rev (manual) start. I find it hard to get the car magazine times. The places they use for drag times usually have very good traction compared to regular streets where I drive. In addition, it is not unusual for car magazines to get cars from the manufacturer that have been tweaked to perform better than ones that people buy. CR buys their cars from regular dealers.

There are too many variables in testing to compare one magazine's results with another's However, comparing cars tested by one magazine usually gives an idea of how one car performs relative to another. Keep in mind that temperature and altitude play a significant role in performance. Also, changes in weather between one car's test and another can leave one with misleading information.

The new Avalon will probably have at least a 5 speed transmission or maybe a six speed or cvt. All would give the car better maximum performance than the four speed in mine, even with the same engine used today. However, many of the cars today, even high performance ones, are dogs in high gear while my Avalon is not. The quest for that last mpg seems to have a negative effect on performance without a downshift. A non-cvt hybrid could fix that. A cvt hybrid would give better acceleration, but with more noise.

alpha01

Car and Driver's Street Start is a replication of just stomping on the gas while rolling with the car in drive and the engine idling. It is an easily attainable figure for the everyday driver, and in my observation and experience, the measure that is most reliable. I dont know that CR even "floors" the vehicles- I remember reading once that they claim not to "brutalize the machinery". Their acceleration figures are for naught IMO, except with respect to making broad comparisons within a test. Such as "The Cadillac SRX V8 is quicker than the Lexus GX470".

~alpha

fndlyfmrflyr

Not to argue, but the C&D technique is hard to duplicate. My cars' speedometers don't show the 5 mph that C&D says it uses. In addition, rolling starts usually give better times from idle than a standing start. Car magazines tend to get the best times by turning off traction control also. Most people will leave it on all the time. All three of my traction control cars will give better times with traction control turned off, but not every time.

I find reasonably quick initial go, like my Avalon has, is fine. My Avalon does not have traction control and there is very little wheel spin. I can count on a very consistent standing start performance. When the 05 comes along it will probably have quicker potential acceleration with T/C off, but the first 30 mph with T/C on will probably be similar.

While my Avalon has good passing performance I hope the new one does significantly better. Passing performance is what I look for, along with the ability to climb hills without a transmission downshift. Right now my old Avalon climbs hills in high gear. I hope the new one does too.

With gasoline prices approaching $2.50 per gallon around here, and expected to go higher this summer, fuel economy enters the picture too.

I've seen 30 mpg on trips with the Avalon, but the overall average is more like 21. I hope it doesn't take Toyota too long to offer a hybrid version. I'd like to replace my current 'trip' car (not my Avalon) with one that averages close to 30 mpg overall and has the room and comfort of the Avalon.

alpha01

BUT I dont see how its hard to duplicate nailing the accelerator while in rolling in idle (warm engine).

"Passing performance is what I look for, along with the ability to climb hills without a transmission downshift."

Completely agree with you on passing performance. But, I think you are in left field with respect to not downshifting when climbing hills. Thats an incredibly broad, vague statement. What percent grade are you talking about? And what is wrong with a downshift anyway. I can assure you that the 7 speed auto Mercedes S500 has tons of power, but will probably downshift from 7th gear when climbing a moderate grade. Whats your point?

~alpha

abfisch

Forum:

I have to agree with fndlyfmrflyr and disagree with alpha01. While I am not into bashing any publication, I take CR take on car reviews before anything C&D, R&T, automobile, etc. has to say. They are more thorough and have real world criticism as well as docuemented numbers to back their pros and cons up. Actually, the others pubs. promote 0-60 times, and handling and really don't focus on other vaiables, such as safety, reliability, resale value, etc.

We can see what you are getting for your money when the new Avalon arrives. My expectations would be the same drive train components and engine as the ES330, with the suspension and brake componets of the Camry. At what cost, we will see. In a car that most of us do not treat as a second car, but rather an everyday vehicle, I cannot see how the cons of excessive dive, secure but not precise handling should not be addressed rather than if it has a bit more power.

CR recommedation are much more inclusive and exhaustive than the men/women that still get their kicks out of mashing the accelaration to see if you can knock off a half a second. Some of us who drive this type of vehicle (aka Crown Victoria, Buick Park Ave Ultra, etc) have graduated high school a couple of decades ago. Some of the reviews in the "sport" mags used to be great high school reading, but seem dated and childish for a large sedan and its purposes.

abfisch

fatguycar

I find that the car magazines seem apt to overpraise whatever's offered. They are better than they were ten years ago, with some comparison tests that have losers (gasp!) as well as winners.

But you have to wonder about their impartiality. I saw one of those year-end "what car should I buy" guides from a car magazine. I recall looking at the review for the Ford Escort where it was described like a car salesman would, using words like "nippy" and "economical." Later in the year Ford introduced an Escort that was a major revision, and the same magazine in its monthly edition said that a new Escort was needed because the old model was "agricultural." In fact there wasn't a word of praise for the old model.

I can understand that two different writers can have two different opinions of the same car, but the difference between the year-end guide and the monthly magazine was remarkable.

But I guess Ford was happy.

Kirstie_H

Let's stay off the discussion of the merits of various automotive publications - that's a discussion for News & Views, and I think there's already an active discussion on that board. Thanks!

alpha01

What I said was that I valued the car mag's performance numbers over those of Consumer Reports, I did NOT make a broader statement evaluating which of Car and Driver or CR does a better overall job of assessing a vehicle in the consumer's interest.

Say what you will about the car mags being High School reading.. but the fact is that many of their mainstream comparos focus on more than just performance numbers. You're right, they dont address reliability- but thats the beauty of being able to factor more than one critical opinion, aside from that of your own- in a vehicle purchase.

~alpha

fin

Perhaps these thoughts from my Toyota service guy, "Slick Eddie" Overbill, will get us back on topic:

  New Avalons will have 240 hp max. The suspension cannot safely handle more power without changes that might make the overall ride unacceptable to traditional Avalon purchasers. Comfort prevails over speed. Expect the 5 speed auto. Also expect to lose a little headroom or trunk space for the sake of appearance (style). And the price goes up about 1k per car compared to the 2004 model.

  And if the Toyota service department says it, then we all know,......hmmmm..

fatguycar

I find that the car magazines seem apt to overpraise whatever's offered. They are better than they were ten years ago, with some comparison tests that have losers (gasp!) as well as winners.

But you have to wonder about their impartiality. I saw one of those year-end "what car should I buy" guides from a car magazine. I recall looking at the review for the Ford Escort where it was described like a car salesman would, using words like "nippy" and "economical." Later in the year Ford introduced an Escort that was a major revision, and the same magazine in its monthly edition said that a new Escort was needed because the old model was "agricultural." In fact there wasn't a word of praise for the old model.

I can understand that two different writers can have two different opinions of the same car, but the difference between the year-end guide and the monthly magazine was remarkable.

But I guess Ford was happy.

fndlyfmrflyr

Because none of my speedometers show 5 mph. They all start at 10. Just wondering how they know they start at 5 mph (and not 2 or 8 or...).

Any freeway incline. There may be an occasional one that is too steep, the temperature too warm that day, or the load to much in the car for the car to make it over in high gear. I find it an annoyance to have the tranny shifting on incline after incline while driving with the flow of traffic.

My four cylinder Volvo, my four cylinder Mazda, and my four cylinder PT had/have no trouble with hills and stayed/stay in high gear no matter what the grade (so far). My Avalon stays in high gear. My Jag had trouble staying in high gear on the South bound Grapevine grade, but that's all. OTOH, my Acura shifts on half or more of inclines, even little ones. Strong head winds also make the car shift a lot even on level ground while at freeway speeds.

In short, if repeated shifting while at cruise doesn't bother someone then there is no problem. For me, it is a major annoyance. To each his/her own I suppose. Other things don't bother me that do bother others, so I guess it evens out.

My hope is the new Avalon keeps the attributes that make the Avalon so nice while adding a few to make it even nicer.

Quiet and long ride comfort, along with ease of entry and exit have become more important the older I get. Utility has become important too, but a big enough trunk and roomy back seat is all I need. There is still some boy racer left though, so power still counts too, as does handing and stopping. I'd love an Avalon with the comfort, space, and quiet of mine combined with some of the fun and utility of my PT GT. Maybe the 05 Avalon will.

abfisch

Forum:

I could agree more that a nice revision to the new Avalon, might be more low end torque, to decrease the downshifting on moderate-severe grades. I drive over a very steep mountain, adjacent to the Hudson River in NY state, and wind up just taping the button for O/D OFF. It does hunt just a little on grades where it should have enough low end power to make it up. Not bad, but perhaps the new engine might make a little difference, not so much in upper end HP but in lower end torque..That would be a nice improvement.

It the new one decreases head room, that is going to bum me out. I enjoy too, the ease of entry/exist, relatively good MPJ, interior space as well as trunk space. I couldn't enjoy any "boy racing" properties, until I changed the shocks, sway bar bushings, and front rotors. Now much better although a mild decrease in ride comfort.

Will see what happens. A decrease in trunk capacity would not be welcome. Any increase in fuel tank capacity would be welcome (IMO).

"Feed the forum"

abfisch

alpha01

Toyota seems to be on target with consumer needs in so far as major redesigns, so I'll bet most of your desired, and very reasonable, IMO, revisions will come to fruition with the advent of the new Av.

Toyota's V6s arent Honda-like high HP/ moderate torque designs, and the current 3.3L offers very substantial low-end pull. 242 foot pounds at 3600 RPM. The danger is Toyota's somewhat unimpressive 5 speed auto and drive by wire throttle. I recently drove an ES330 and floored from a stop, acceleration was quite impressive. Not TL-like, but strong and confident nonetheless. However, the car felt dumpy in "around town" driving, because to me, there was too much "thinking" going on by the throttle and transmission. Note of course, this is not something either of my parents would notice, as they are not car nuts.

Allegedly, this "thinking" is something that owners get used to, and the transmission is supposed to adapt to repeated similar driving behavior- certainly impossible given that I was driving a DEMO model.

Finally, I do understand your reasoning behind not liking excessive downshifts, but for me- if the downshifting is imperceptible, I probably wouldnt care about it.

~alpha

andy71

Being the owner of a 04 SE V6. I think the problem if you want to call it that is not the transmission but the electronic throttle control. Instead of a cable linkage, computer sensors control acceleration input. My question is what happens if the electronic sensors fail? Is there a backup system that will take over?

nomad56

andy71-you are in good hands. EVERYTHING about ETC is better. Fewer, lighter parts, leaves more real estate under the hood, with infinite controllability. ...which is more fuel and emission efficient, etc. The technology has been around for years (even Vettes have it), and you will probably see it applied to steering as well. I went to the Society of Automotive Engineers Detroit expo in the mid/late 90's and asked about the safety of "computerized throttles"... "Redundancy" was the answer. Engineers know what that means. I had it explained... There are multiple switches and sensors at every stage of the process. ie) If it requires ONE switch, they put in THREE or FOUR. It is a self monitoring system, and knows when a switch or sensor is NOT doing its job. I am sure today, 7 or 8 years later, it is even better, though I am not as involved in the technology as I once was... Knowing this, I did NOT hesitate to get Vehicle Skid Control on my Four Runner. Hope this helps. -nomad56-

fatguycar

I've started reading "The Toyota Way" which is a book on Toyota's business methods. To show how Toyota applies these principles there is a chapter on the development of the Prius. This is presented as "Developing a new method of developing and manufacturing cars for the 21st century."

Reading between the lines, it's more a question of Toyota differentiating itself from other manufacturers. If hybrid engines will fit in the space current gas-only engines use and give considerable improvements in gas economy this would give Toyota an advantage that can't be matched.

When this hits the Avalon, no one knows, but the ability to put this in the Lexus RX330 and the high sales of the Prius make it likely.

solara00

We sure got off the topic, or else I keep hitting a wrong link. I thought the topic was the new body style for the 05 Avalon. What has that got to do with ETC and Hybrid engines?

I don't mean to spoil the party, but shouldn't the moderator keep the messages on topic as much as possible?

fatguycar

>> I don't mean to spoil the party, but shouldn't the moderator keep the messages on topic as much as possible?

It's turned into a more general discussion because that's what people are more interested in. If you have something to say on the body shape no one's stopping you from saying it.

alpha01

Take away all the posts on the definitive use of ETC in the next Avalon, and the hope for a hybrid engine in the next Avalon, and there would be no posts to complain about at all. Theres just not that much info out there yet on the 05, and so people speculate and share ideas, which is precisely the purpose of these boards. For not meaning to be spoiling the "party", you seem to be doing a good job of it. Nobodys forcing you to read this, you know?

~alpha

solara00

you are forcing me to read them. Because the title would naturally bring a person looking for information on "NEW BODY STYLE FOR 2005 AVALON" to this topic. It's not a topic on sludge, or 6 vs. 4 cylinder. So why waste everyone's time by starting a topic and then no post is germane to the freaking topic?

I guess if I went to your file cabinet, I'd find information on refrigerators in the TV folder. Wow, that makes sense. Or maybe I should post Acura complaints in the Toyota forum. Yeah, that works. The moderator ruins forum topics by not keeping them on-topic.

The purpose of title-specific forums is to direct people to topics that interest them. If I wanted to read about hybrid engines, I'd go to that forum. Or start one. But I wouldn't muddy this TITLE-FREAKING-SPECIFIC topic up with posts like that.

Why don't you start a new topic if the purpose of this one doesn't interest you? Why ruin this one? And how would I know what stupid messages you are cluttering up this topic with if I didn't read them? We're not all Kreskin you know.

Keep the forum on topic, or don't waste the time of old AND NEW visitors who may actually think you have something to say about the actual topic.

To Alpha1: Ask yourself, do your speculations about ETC, hybrid this or that, blah, blah, blah have anything to do with the TITLE of this topic?

No, I didn't think so either.

gteach26

Is that there is little or no info on the new Avalon. I'm sure once more details start coming out the topic will stay tightly focused. In the meantime relax folks -- this is supposed to be a fun endeavor remember?

solara00

But I don't think people should beat up on me for hoping that posts will be germane to the topic. If there is no news about the New Avalon Body Style, that's certainly to be expected and understandable.

But I just wish people would not post into a topic with a message that has no relevance to that topic. Why should we have to filter through 100 off-topic messages to find a few messages about the topic?

It would just make all the forums (and this isn't the only one guilty of this problem) a lot more meaningful for those of us who want information on that topic only. If someone doesn't police this, the next thing you know we'll be talking about Zaino Car Polish in the New Avalon Body Style forum. Do we really want that?

gteach26

and I'm willing to bet we'll all be getting a slap on the wrist soon enough.

Personally, I prefer when the hosts lay back and let the topic twist and turn a bit.. to me it's more interesting that way. I'm sure others want it more "tight" -- I don't envy the hosts when it comes controlling the line because it can get quite blurry at times.

To piggy back on examples from above, what if I'm hoping the avalon gets a hybrid engine for '05 (yeah right), or I want to talk about how I plan to put a thick coat of Zaino on my '05 avalon as soon as I get it... am I off topic? Its a stretch, I know.

In any case, the last I heard someone mention the avalon it was predicted that the new one won't be showing up 'till next year?! Any "official" confirmation on that? I was sure hoping to see it come the fall. I'll be buying a new car in January and was hoping to add the 05 avalon to my list. Fingers crossed.

solara00

I was hoping that the new Avalon would be out this fall, because I need to replace an aging vehicle badly. The Camry is not quite what I want and I don't see too many advantages in the Lexus ES330 over an Avalon -- other than the nameplate. I don't particularly like the current Avalon body style, but I hate to go another winter with an older vehicle. If the 05 exterior changes according to some of the ideas I've seen here (Luxury with a little Sport?), then the Avalon would be my first choice.

If Toyota could lift the veil a little, it might make me wait a few months for an improved body style, a Navigation system location lower on the dash, etc.

We'll see.......and I appreciate your post.

alpha01

My only points were that the Avalon will use electronic throttle control, and that the possibility of a Hybrid version is distinct. You called the posts on these issues off topic, while offering no additional value to this forum. Given that, as I and gteach have pointed out, information is scarce on the 2005 Avalon, I dont really see the harm in discussing features that people here expect to be incorporated to the Avalon line at some point in the near future. I personally agree with gteach, and like the twists and turns in converstaion. If the only thing you want to see here is hard info on the next Av, this thread is going to be dead for at least the next month or so. (Maybe there will be some info presented or leaked at the NYIAS in mid April).

~alpha

fatguycar

>> I don't see too many advantages in the Lexus ES330 over an Avalon -- other than the nameplate.

I'm driving a 45,000 mile 2000 Avalon after giving my 150,000 mile 1997 Lexus to my wife. I'd rate them around equal - Lexus better in some things, Avalon better in others.

The Lexus is a lot more than just a nameplate, and when I test drove a then-current ES300 and a then-current Avalon XLS a year or so ago, the Lexus was more refined.

waraka

Has anyone ever noticed that the grill of the Volkswagen Phaeton looks exactly like the 2004 Avalon XLS?

I don't care for this old-school grill, but I do like the Phaeton's rear end. So, I have a simple wish for Toyota, would you design the 2005 Avalon's rear end to look exactly like the VW Phaeton?. I know it a lot to ask for but it would be a big improvement over the previous Avy models. Just wishing or remote possibility?

coolguyky7

Very Priusy-Avensis....apparently they've heard of the 3.5 V6, also.

gteach26

HUH?! Make that a double HUH?!?!? The article states that the pic is an artist rendition but it sure looks like a real car pic to me. First thing I looked at was the car's backside -- let's just call it "different" for now. I'm reserving judgment 'till I see more but I am getting worried.

Thanks for the pic samnoe... your's is the first one I've seen anywhere.

alpha01

Is one ugly vehicle, and I'd imagine if it comes to market looking anything close that that "rendition", it will alienate most of its prospective buyers. That rear end! AHHHHHHHHH!
I seriously cannot understand the mentality of bringing this car to market with a 270hp V6, when the next $45,000 Lexus GS is going to debut with a 245hp unit. What the hell is Toyota thinking. I am personally keeping my fingers crossed that none of the information in that article is true. Nice fodder for this forum though.

~alpha

coolguyky7

The GS and Avalon are completely different kinds of vehicle. The Avalon needs to be a cheaper LS, while the ES is a smaller, more luxurious vehicle.

andy71

That's a lot of power going to the front wheels. If they are serious about 270 Horspower and I am guessing close to 250 lb-ft of torque than it definitely should be RWD or AWD. Looks like an oversized Prius from the sides. 270 Horspower in a Granny mobile doesn't make much sense.

solara00

Even if the rendition is close, it's still too hard to really know without a closer inspection - especially of the tail end.

I do think it is an improvement over the current Avalon generation. Definitely sportier than the current version, IMO. That color sure doesn't do anything for it. Silver, black or white might look nice.

Thanks for the pic.

samnoe

Yeah.. it doesn't make sense to me, too... Toyota was never the kind of putting in much hp. Is this to compete, ammm..., with Nissan Maxima? it will for sure have torque steer...

I don't believe Toyota should release this vehicle - it's not that ugly, but not special. Seems that people are that crazy about the Prius, so they copied styling a bit. The only advantage can be a HUGE trunk. but limit rear visibility.

After all, people, that's just a spy shot. Could be it isn't the real one...

I just posted the pic to hear what you guys have to say about that, and not to argue anymore on-topic or off-topic :-)

jjpcat

Whoever writing that article must have limited auto information.

Rear-seat legroom is said to be equal to or more than the big Lexus LS430

Give me a break. Avalon has much larger rear legroom than LS430. I have ride in both. The spec also confirm my impression: 40.1":37.6"

kendall

Yes 270 horsepower does sound like a lot. The new Maxima has 265 and I noticed a great deal of torque steer during a test drive recently. The new Acura TL has 270 hp; it too is said to have a lot of torque steer - but in the manual transmission only. It has some sort of limited slip differential which is said to contribute to this. The review of the TL recommended the automatic transmission for this reason. The automatic was said to have no serious torque steer (even with 270 hp and front wheel drive like the new Avalon may have).

gteach26

I also had a picture link deleted on another board a few days back because it had another forum associated with it. I THINK Edmunds is currently re thinking this policy. I think there's certain apprehension that we'll be "snapped away" by other competing forums or unscrupulous sales people if links are allowed -- personally, I belong to most other major forums out there so I'm "snapped away" all over the place anyways!

Bottom line, I love Edmunds (we all do or else why are we here). I feel they don't need to be so jittery towards competing forums -- but hey, it's not my ad $$ I'm talking about.

It is a shame about the pic being gone -- this board LIT UP after it was posted. Oh, and as to the '05 avalon pic -- I hope it is a fake, because that car certainly looked awkward.

Kirstie_H

We know there are other forums, and we're happy that you enjoy participating in them as well. But, if you read Sylvia's recent note in the Ask the Town Hall Hosts discussion, you'll see the history behind management decisions, and where we're trying to go in the future. Thanks, and let's continue talking about the '05 Avalon.