2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

hylyner

And I'll be the first to agree with concerns about "lawyers out to get you with oil analysis results........", PROVIDED anyone anytime shows irrefutable evidence that any such thing has ever happened!!
(That being said, I'm sure somebody'll dredge up a "link" to some cock and bull anecdotal report of it happening somewhere in the world, just to support their claim!!)
All I can say about that type of concern is that it rates about the same level as the "aliens have landed and it's doomsday" prediction.
In terms of any such claim being "a negative aspect of buying an Avalon"---that's equally ridiculous.
Like I've said several times 'Look, if you want to express an opinion about how/why you don't like Toyota, that's fair ball." Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
But no one has a right to use opinion in support of claims when the facts don't agree.

just__me

I have been changing my oil every 3,000 miles on every car I've ever owned for the past 40 plus years. I also change my oil after the first 1,000 miles even though it's no longer necessary, but it's an old habit of mine. I have never had sludge in any of my Avalon's or other cars other then a Mazda once owned. But then I had over 180,000 miles on that car. The engines of my cars have held up very well. My XLS Avalon is the best car I have ever owned and after 13,000 plus miles it is still problem free, and surprisingly no nicks yet on my hood. But then again I stay back of the cars and trucks in front of me like never before as I've become a more defensive driver.

mackabee

I got to chime in on this one. I was employed at a Toyota dealer that will remain nameless to protect the innocent back when the "oil sludge fiasco" as some have called it ocurred. At that time there were some Sienna, Avalon, Camry, and some Lexus vehicles (that use Toyota's V6 3.0L engine) that were sludging up. Most were caused by customer neglect (and I have the proof) and other's were not(which Toyota attributed to a design "defect" which was later modified as per the technical bulletins to correct this "problem"). All oil filters installed at the factory have a grease pencil mark on them. At that time some of these vehicles still had the original oil filters on them and some had upwards of 25k miles on the engine. There was an Avalon in our shop that had the valve covers removed and the oil was so badly sludged that it looked and had the consistency of chocolate pudding. The customer insisted and swore up and down that the oil and filter had been changed in accordance with the manufacturer's recommended maintenance schedule but had no written proof and there was no record of it having been done at any of the local Toyota dealers. Now I'm not saying all dealers are saints by any means but some will work with you if you want to be worked with. This customer had to pay for a brand new engine. Other's were given new given new engines and new warranties or the warranties were extended. At that time the recommended intervals were 5k or 7.5k miles based on your driving habits. Those intervals were changed to protect the ignorant, I mean the innocent and to protect Toyota's sterling reputation as a world class leader in the automobile manufacturing business. Now back to my book; "John Wooden on Leadership"

Mackabee

wwest

Well, the car now has ~20,000 miles and the oil has been changed once a year except I skipped 04 entirely.

havalongavalon

Ok, wwest, let's see... 2001 Porsche, 20,000 miles... changed oil once a year, except in 2004... Assuming you bought it new in 2001, changed oil 3 times so far: in 2002, 2003, 2005... So, changed oil roughly every 5,000 miles, then. Correct?

Alternatively, you skipped 2004 but changed oil early in 2005, so the car is due for another oil change about now. This would mean changing oil roughly every 4,000 miles. Which one is correct?



havalongavalon

jaxs1

It's no surprise that some people do not do any maintenance.
25K miles is a lot different from 5-7500 miles.

nimimi

I've searched through my 2006 Owners Manual, Maintenance Schedule and Warranty booklet (all the manuals I received with the car) and can find no reference to a 3,000 mile oil-change interval for any reason whatsoever. Where does the literature discuss this and, especially, where does it define "severe?"

jjr1

n0v8or....Thank You for your thoughts. I'm sure I will use some of you ideas. Also thanks to everyone else who responded. I'll post the outcome. Thanks again.

hylyner

I'm certain your story about ignoring oil changes is not uncommon. This guy I knew who had 2 engines replaced was a good example of how it often happened. His first Camry, a 98, went over 30000 miles with no oil changes before it seized up. He swore up and down the oil was changed "religiously" and conned the dealer into a new engine. Then he traded for an 01 Camry, drove it 25000 miles with no oil changes, and finally a rod went thru the block. The engine had no oil left in it and just hatched. By this time Toyota had a replacement policy if you could show that an oil change was done, so this guy somehow managed to get fake receipts, produced them for the dealer, and another new engine was put in for free.
This guy freely boasted about his accomplishments and seemed to think nothing of the fact that he cheated big time. In his mind, "those big car companys can afford it!!"
Last I heard (earlier this year), he was working on the line at a car company(not Toyota), and he got busted along with some other guys for stealing GPS Navigation units out of the plant!!
I often wonder how many engines Toyota replaced which were for people who felt "Those big car companys can afford it so why should I care"

hylyner

And a loud voice was heard from afar saying "gotcha"!!
Thanks havalongavalon! Dang it tho', I'll never see the money from my bet!

scoti1

nimimi,

I am not sure where the 3000 interval came from either, however, that is the interval usually recommended by the ones changing the oil (dealer service dept, Jiffy Lube, wherever) because it means more money for them.

Earlier model Toyota/Lexus' had two intervals recommended: normal at 7,500 miles and severe at 5000 miles with some very specific criteria defining severe. It was my understanding, that at least partly due to the sludging issues and much confusion about the definition of severe driving, they eliminated the 7500 interval and now just recommend 5000 miles regardless of driving conditions. Toyota/Lexus made this change in 2003 or 2004.

tkevinc1

I had a 2001 Sienna that had the sludging problem. I changed the oil within the recommended intervals and had proof. I checked the oil one week and it was fine. When I went to change it two weeks later it was a quasi-solid. I took it to the dealer and the shop manager told me that there was a design issue with the gear running the timing on the engine not receiving a constant flow of oil and "grinding" what was fed to it resulting in a complete breakdown of the oil. They told me don't sweat it and $2800 worth of work was done at no cost to me. Both the dealer and Toyota were great and they never offered any resistance at all. Much better than the service I have recevied from another well-known japanese car company.

pat

let's kinda try to wander back in the direction of the discussion topic ...

jaxs1

Hard to believe since he was putting himself at risk of paying it if they didn't fall for fake receipts.

hylyner

Evidently he was willing to take that risk, and got away with it. He certainly had lots to gain by trying. No doubt many others were able to get away with it too. I'm convinced there were a whole bunch more scams like that one!
However, like the Host says, maybe it's about time we moved back into Avalon stuff. This sludge business is ancient history anyway, and obviously it was more mass hysteria than anything else. Why keep talking about it?? It's a "no win" topic anyway.

tstrick320

I can confirm that both 12v power outlets turn OFF when the ignition is off. I agree that even if they didn't there's not much chance of running the battery down with a cell phone. My Suburban's power outlets remain live with the ignition off and I routinely leave my cell phone plugged in overnight to charge it -- sometimes with my PDA-based NAV system on too -- never a problem.

I WISH there was an option to leave one of these outlets on all the time. Might have to re-wire mine.

alan_s

The discussion on oil is really amazing because it really is so trivial in the grand scheme of things.
Compared with the cost of the car and the cost of repairs if oil changes are neglected, an oil-change is a bargain. Oil is the lifeblood of an engine and considering the abuse oil has to take, I still abide by the old rule of thumb of 3,000 mile oil changes and I use synthetics. I want to provide my engine with the maximum reasonable protection.
The manufacturers may have set unrealistic expectations by promoting "No tune-ups needed for 100,000 miles" when they started using platinum-tipped plugs and I guess some people figure that meant they could run the car for 100,000 miles without MAINTENANCE which resulted in engine damage etc.
Anyway aren't frequent oil changes very cheap insurance?

tstrick320

I'm sitting in the airport after putting 1450 miles on a 2005 XLS that I rented from Hertz in St Louis. The car had 16960 miles on it when I picked it up and appears to have been "rode hard and put away wet" as we used to say in the southwest. A shame to see such a fine car treated so badly but typical, I guess, for rentals. Basic equipment -- no NAV, laser cruise, or heated seats (would have been nice in the 9 degree weather we have in Tulsa this morning!)

Demographics: I'm 48, male, 6'3", 280lbs, married, with college age kids. Previous cars: 71 Beetle, 73 Regal, 81 Supra, 83 Cressida, 81 Corolla, 83 Cressida (liked it so much I had to have another one), 87 Land Cruiser, 93 Suburban plus a hundred rentals of various types during my "road warrior" days.

Here is my take on the "Velvet Rocket":

This is unquestionably the nicest car I have ever driven. Nothing else even comes close to this Avalon. I found it to be comfortable, quiet, and powerful (wow!) and so did ALL of my passengers -- both front and back.

Now I'll try to address the issues that have been raised in this forum:

1) Horsepower - I'd be afraid to have more. I completed a few passing maneuvers only to look down and see I was going faster than I've been since I was 18 years old (and foolish). This thing needs a safety that prevents triple-digit speeds unless you mean it!

2) Rattles - none except the passenger seat belt buckle that got caught between the seat and door pillar a few times. Could this be the passenger seat/door rattle that others have talked about?

3) Transmission - yes, it "hunted" a bit at times but nothing serious and certainly no worse than other "modern" engine/tran combos I've driven. In general, the drive by wire computer seemed to know what I wanted and delivered it promptly. I'm sure the transmission "personality" of a rental has to be weird in the extreme so I'm not worried about the minor indecision I experienced at times.

4) Rear window distortion - yes, it's there. No big deal and after a few hundred miles my brain didn't "see" it anymore.

5) Pulling to the right - nope. Mine pulled left but I expect alignment jobs are low on Hertz' maintenance list.

6) Seat comfort - as good as any I've been in and I had some LONG days of driving during the last week.

7) Stability/Traction/etc. - I drove in both dry sunny conditions and in 2 snowstorms. This car did NOT have VSC but I felt secure in every situation I faced. Will add VSC when I buy one but very stable with good traction even without it.

All in all - FANTASTIC CAR! I suspect I will only realize just how good it was when I get back home to my Suburban.

I may post more later but wanted to get my immediate impressions down.

Sign me,
Saving my pennies to buy my own soon!

hylyner

"Anyway aren't frequent oil changes very cheap insurance?"

Absolutely! No question about it. Best way to ensure engine longevity, especially with today's lower displacement/higher output engines. Evidently some have a hard time accepting that piece of advice though. Maybe it's got something to do with how much better most cars are today than a generation ago, and people are lulled into complacency.
Another big reason for not paying attention to maintenance is the increased popularity of "leasing", where people tend not to take care of cars which don't really belong to them. Although the lease business is getting more stringent about enforcing maintenance schedules, and perhaps this will reduce past levels of apathy shown toward leased cars.

jaxs1

That's dumb. He had more to risk because they may not believed the fake receipts and he would have been stuck with the bill himself. By going 25K miles without a an oil change, he saved 5 oil changes at a 5K interval and risked a $2800 repair. The repair was not really a "gain" since the car would not needed the repair at 25K miles if he didn't skip all the oil changes.
That's the same as puncturing your tires on purpose so you can collect on road hazard coverage so you can get a free tire repair you wouldn't have otherwise needed.
Sounds like a made-up story or someone with mental problems.

jaxs1

People have a comprehension problem if they take "no tuneups" for 100K miles as meaning no oil changes for 100K miles.
However, 3,000 oil changes on synthetic oil is quite over the top.

pat

Since the Forums are just about to go read-only, maybe that'll get you folks to give up the sludge talk.

scramblinman

Missing features at this price point –

6. Tilt & telescoping steering on memory recall.

That was one that really stuck in my craw. The Avalon's manual tilt and telescope controls also struck us as awkward and inconvenient to use.

For us it came down to a choice between an Avalon Limited and a Maxima SE. Amenity-wise, we either had to forego the cooled front seats with the Max or the memory steering wheel with the Av. The only car we looked at with everything we wanted was the Infiniti M35x, but we weren't too keen on paying $50K OTD right now. Truth be told, if the dealer would have come down to $38K OTD for that beautiful Phantom Grey Limited with everything but laser cruise, there would be a new Avalon parked in our garage right now. But they didn't, we took a closer look at the Max (which my wife had leaned towards anyhow), and decided to go that route with absolutely no regrets.

I don't recall the Av having a heated steering wheel, either. Seems frivolous, but my how nice it has been during our latest cold snap.

fragmire

I still say this is a case for Toyota to protect themselves. Consider that to be a warning label where manufacturers attempt to ward of stupid lawsuits (e.g. the scums who don't do oil change and ask for engine replacements). Toyota can require oil change every 5 miles even though the engine can go on 10k miles without oil change. When was the last time you saw manuals that actually read out the limitations of a product?

A lot of electronic products require the use of 110V power source, but most are capable of withstanding anywhere between 95V to 135V. Now say another product comes out and advertise that it can withstand 100V to 120V, does this mean it's a superior product to the one that recommends 100V? NO! It's simply the manufacturer's choice (or perhaps their lawyers' choice) as to what to say.

Another example is to look at some of the warning labels on products out there. Like:

"Do not use in shower." -- On a hair dryer.
"Battery may explode or leak." -- On a battery.

Does this mean that you can get away with using a hair dryer in a shower? Sure. Does this mean the battery may not explode or leak? Sure. These labels are put on there to ward off abuser and stupid lawsuits just so the manufacturers have something to fall back on.

hylyner

"Sounds like a made-up story or someone with mental problems."
Definitely the latter, IMO. Typical sociopath!!
No wonder so many people are skeptical about ripoffs in the sludge thing. That scenario appears to be a common thing these days. It almost seems epidemic in our society.
Meanwhile, back to Avalon stuff. Has anyone had any probs with heated seats? Just after delivery, the driver's side seat heater quit on our Av. That's the only problem we had. Dealer replaced the entire seat assembly, no questions asked, and no problem since. Never did get the story on what went wrong. Any Ideas??
BTW, we live in the Ohio Valley area. Got a TON of snow last night, and the Av performed really well. Lots of cars got stuck, but we managed just fine. (michelin M&S)

johnj3

Any idea when the 2007 Avalon will be released and what if any changes there will be for that model year? :confuse:

motownusa

One change that you certainly can expect is a new 6 speed automatic transmission since the 07 Camry V6 is getting it. I will be surprised if they won't offer the 6 speed auto on the 07 Avalon. Also the horspower might be tuned up by 10 to 15 to set it apart from the Camry.

just__me

Toyota Ranks Highest in Dealer Satisfaction for 11th Consecutive Year
TOKYO: 8 December 2005 ­ J.D. Power Asia Pacific 2005 Japan Dealer Attitude StudySM released today.
The Toyota brand ranks highest in overall satisfaction among dealers for an 11th consecutive year with an index score of 121 points. BMW makes its debut in the 2005 study and follows Toyota with a score of 108 index points. Honda, Mazda and Volkswagen tie to rank third at 102 index points. Get the whole story here.
http://www.autospectator.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2785

ron6

The December 8 WSJ lists the eleven new cars that are flying off the dealers' lots the fastest. Of the eleven cars listed, seven are made by Toyota/Scion. Number nine on the list is the Avalon with an average of 16 days on the lot. Others listed were the Honda Civic, a Land Rover and then two BMWs were in the tenth and eleventh place. Apparently lots of people think the Avalon is a great buy!!

captain2

Or the Camry detuned a little - to maybe 250 hp, would also expect the Camry to remain a smaller car (190" length), one of the probelms that Toyota always had with marketing the old Avalon was that there wasn't much to differentiate it from a full boat Camry. It will be interesting to see if they do this again

captain2

appreciate your comments, reading through some of these posts you wouldn't think that any of us Av owners actually understand how well off we really are.
An Avalon in a rental fleet - at 16k, I surprised it had any tires left - sure is easy to 'abuse' that power. I also left a Suburban which I always thought to be one of the best highway vehicles made - until my '05 Touring, and doubling my gas mileage!
Avalons do require lots of pennies though.

jackerussel

Hello WWEST:

Thank You for your reply. I found out that as of today Toyota has no winter wiper blades available for the 2006 Avalon. This icing problem with the wipers is obviously a design defect. We will try your suggestion of turning up the heat.

Regards

Jack

bahraini_zupra

hi guys

iam so happy today cuz when i toke the car to the dealer in the morning and i toke her in the sunset with fixed rear shelf rattle i dunno how they did it but it feels so good :P

just loved to share this and to day the car is perfect till this day after the rattle fix its little bumpy but its good cuz our streets is like hell .

cant wait to chose my sets or rims

limiteddriver

IIRC no one has mentioned a time to change oil instead of mileage. I, for years, have used 4 months or 4000 miles as a guide with dino oil and have had no engine problems. On my previous BMW, which came from the factory with synthetic, you got a free oil/filter change at 1 year or 15,000 miles during the warranty period. I changed at 6 months or 7500 miles and never had trouble. Another thing, IMHO I believe the OEM oil filters are better than after market filters, especially Fram. Just my $0.02.

cms1528

I got an email from R&H toyota in Baltimore MD and they are offering 750 over invoice on 06 Limited. Someone may wish to look into it for themselves or another.

abfisch

Jack:

I live in way Upstate NY and have done so for sometime along with winters in Vermont. I have found that winter blades add very little to the quality of clearing the windows. I have found the following other measures helpful. Some are obvious, some are not.

Garage the car.
Use of Rain-X windshield wiper fluid, or pouring some Rain-X into the existing fluid retards ice from adhering to the front window.
Bronze windshield scrapers are superior to any plastic scraper.
Flip up your SUN VISORS towards the window. This will keep the warm/hot air on the front window longer and help deice it.
Coating the blades with silicone may help retard icing as well.
Replace them during the fall yearly(at least) before the start of the winter season.
I use a product called "Snuggies", available at the local NAPA store. They are basically external wiper arm springs that cause more downward pressure to clear the windshield. A word of caution is in order cause I do not think they will fit the new Avalon, because of the wiper arms, clearance from the hood. They also might affect wiper motor longevitiy, so I would NOT recommend using them on the high setting . Nevertheless, for my old Civic and 02 Avalon they work well along with the other measures.

Good luck.

abfisch

abfisch

Alan S:

Whose ole rule are you referring too?? Without starting a conflict, I would have to disagree with you somewhat, not totally. 3K are oil companies and oil change places rules and possibly yours. However, while they advertise $18.95 and the like, walking out of these places with that as a total charge is not very likely. There is always state Tax, and the oil disposal charge in little print. So then we come to do you do your oil yourself??? I did mine last month in the driveway, and I only run synthetic 0W-30 during the very cold winter months. It took me approx. 30 minutes, but I have gotten effecient at it. Reaching for that oil filter under the manifold exhaust is the least favorite part. Why they put it there is beyond reason.

Synthetic oil is very costly. And you know that they dont use them for the $18.95 price. Or if they do, it would be slgihtly used (just kidding).

Clearly 3K mile intervals are as you relate cheap insurance but are UNecessary for most of us. Actually, factually and objectively CR(Consumer Reports) did a extensive study approx. 5-7 years ago. They took NYC taxi cabs, ran them to 200K, had different groups changed at 3K, 5K, and 7.5K I beleive. They took apart the engines, and measured the wear with micrometers.

The bottom line, was there was no demonstrable difference in wear at the 200K mark, between the 3K and 5K group. No so with the 7.5K group from my recollection.

Additionally, IMO, I notice NO difference in the difference in synthetic versus organic oils with the EXCEPTION of very cold weather at 5K intervals. To back up my statements, my last 90 Honda Civic had 236K upon private sale to another soldier, burned less than 1/2 quart every 5K, and never gave me any trouble. The difference in time, never mind cost of 3K versus 5K intervals is my dispute.

Past Avalon owners, like myself, bought this vehicle for many reasons, one of them low maintenance. The big bang for the buck appeals to many of us, since funds are not unlimited. Nor time for constant 3K oil changes.

My 04 BMW 325ci requires oil intervals every 15K with synthetic oil (BMW oil or Castrol which makes it for BMW). While I abid by this for now, they just don't want people probably messin with the frequent oil changes, since so many shops cannot even get that right, and the synthetic properties do last longer, albeit at a price.

Unless the new Avalon has changed, 5K intervals seems reasonably exceptable for most without the worry or constant expense.

How many vehicles are bought and then kept past 200K?? I bet not too many.

abfisch

tstrick320

ENOUGH ABOUT OIL CHANGES!!! Pat, please move this discussion to a more appropriate forum.

I read this forum to learn about the TOYOTA AVALON! I'm tired of trying to wade through all of the tedious whining about oil changes to get the the FEW messages that are about the CAR!

Come on folks, give it a rest!

alan_s

I agree! Time for a subject change, not an oil change! We're on a slippery slope so let's grease the skids and move on to sump-thing else.;)

jaxs1

It's easy enough for someone to start another subject they want to talk about.
If someone would do that, it would all take care of itself.
Looks like the oil change situation is what people were interested in at the time, but that stops no one from starting a different subject if they wish.

hylyner

There is an excellent Oil info topic at the Maintenance and Repair forum entitled "Oil-A Slippery Subject"
Everything you need to know and were afraid to ask is there.
All those who want to beat the oil subject to death, or flog Toyota about sludge, please feel free to go to that topic.
Let's not keep trying to derail this one into another one of those "I don't like Toyota" crusades.
Can't speak for everyone, but I'm getting tired of hearing about why Avalons don't please the vocal minority. As a satisfied owner, I would rather hear more about the majority who are also satisfied.

denali1

....if your spouse or significant other needed/wanted a new vehicle? In other words, would you want two Avalons at the same time? The reason I ask is, my wifes SUV is nearing the endof the road (at least the end of the road on spending money on repairs). She likes my 06 Limited a lot...Seems to me if there are problems down the road you could have them on both vehicles. On the other hand, if they are making you happy.....

stlmo

denali1: My wife loves her 05 Bliz Pearl LTD so much I rarely get to drive it and am stuck with the 03 EB Explorer which is not nearly as fun and comfortable, & gets worse mpg to boot. I wouldn't mind having an Av Touring or Acura TL for myself but then I lose ability to haul larger items or tow if needed. I take it you have a GMC Denali so I guess it all depends on if your wife, or you, need a SUV. Our newspaper today covered the new RAV 4 & it looked interesting as it is over a foot longer than the current version and can be had with a high horse 6 cyl that still gets much better mpg than the truck based SUVs. As for having the same problems down the road if one had 2 AVs, the problems reported here so far are various and for the most part minor. I don't think this would concern me much.

jackerussel

Wondering if any fellow Avaloners are having a problem with their wipers freezing up. Also the bottom corners of the windshield. This happens when lots of snow and 10-15 degree temperatures. Major problem and very unsafe. Weather has been extreme up here in N.E. Ohio, so the Avalon has been sitting. Will try a suggestion of turn the heat up all the way, but know this will be uncomfortable. Dealer will look this Sat. 17th.

Regards

Jack

endovit

For the life of me, can't figure it out. Went to the manual and did exactly what it said with both smart keys to set both my wife's smart key and mine to different seat locations. Read somewhere in this forum that you can use your smart key to set the set locations back to the memory locations. Just can't figure out how. Any help?

algee

As an owner of a 2006 avalon limited I'd like to know where are the statistics that say the majority are happy?

I am not happy with its slip and slide transmission, road noise almost as bad as a 1960's car and far worse than my 2002 XLS.

A nav, system that cost $1900 and works only as well as a $300 Garmin hand held. The voice system is a joke.

The seats are as hard as an old Ford compact car. Unbeliveable poor quality seats for a $38000 car.

Won't be in this forum much longer as I intend to trade in this mistake for a new Buick Lucerne even with a big loss. I can't stand this car for 4 years of a loan.

signed,

Another screwup in my life.

hylyner

C'mon now, it can't be as bad as that!! Then again, you're not the majority either.
"Statistics" are overwhelmingly positive about the Avalon. Positives posted in this thread vastly outnumber negatives. Consumer surveys show the same. Sales exceed supply. Resale value exceed others in class. Any more evidence required?
Proof is there there for those who don't see everything in life as a negative. It sometimes helps to look at what you've got versus what you think you don't.
Truth is they're as good as any, and better than most.
Merry Christmas!! Attitude is everything.

captain2

about the 14th time you've told us how miserable your Avalon is - enough already - hitail down to your local Buick dealer and get your Lucerne.. Other than you may want to review complaints/reliability stats on that car too, hope that it meets your expectations. Guess the rest of us will have to live with our superior 'mistakes'!

imidazol97

>you may want to review complaints/reliability stats on that car too,

According to JDP the Buicks do well, better than Toyota.

pat

If someone is having problems with an Avalon, they are free to post them here and they should not be assaulted for doing so.

If you don't have something helpful to say, there's no point in making a post.

Problems happen - be glad they haven't happened to you and let it go.

Thanks.