2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

hylyner

"According to JDP the Buicks do well, better than Toyota."

Just curious about the authenticity of this statement.
Is there a link to JDP comparison between Buick and Toyota?
Which models are being compared in making this claim?
For example, the JDP site shows "No Data" as yet for Avalon in comparing it to similarly priced Buick LeSabre.
(Although comparing the two in "Performance" and "Appeal", the Avalon comes out way ahead--five stars, where the Buick has only two.)

hylyner

Just curious Pat. Please, no disrespect intended.
How helpful is it to continually remind others that you don't like your car? Does it really help anyone by doing so time and time again?
Here's something constructive. Why not direct people who feel they must continually grouse about problems that Edmunds has a place to air them--in the Maintenance and Repair Forum, where there are "Problems and Solutions" boards for every make and model. Who knows, there may actually be solutions discussed there to solve some of those problems.

pat

Well, if it's okay for people to post over and over how wonderful their Avalon is, it must be equally okay for people to post over and over about their problems.

This is not an Avalon adoration society. It is a discussion about the attributes and the features - and any issues with - the vehicle.

There is no reason why people cannot and should not be able to talk about their problems here without being jumped on because of it.

hylyner

I agree completely with your reasons for allowing anyone to post about problems-even multiple times if they see fit.
You're absolutely right, this isn't a love-in for Toyota, and shouldn't be.
That said, I haven't seen any instances where the same person has repeatedly posted over many months about their affection for Toyota either--or maybe I've missed it.
However when the same negative things are said by the same person for many many months, perhaps a case could be made that it's excessive, and maybe there's another agenda at work besides "just talking about problems"?

3puttmax

Read somewhere in this forum that you can use your smart key to set the set locations back to the memory locations. Just can't figure out how.

endovit -

Once you've gone thru the process of associating each smart key with a different seat position setup, then when you unlock the car, whichever smart key you use to unlock it, the seat will be set accordingly. If you just walk up to the car when it's already unlocked, the seat won't move to "your" position.

I'm assuming you've already set the driving positions onto the smart keys, for each of your 2 keys, as outlined on page 61-62 of the manual.

Good luck - mine works fine.

Max

alan_s

I have a fix for the road noise problem. It is called Bridgestone Turanza LS-V in size 225-55-17 or 225-50-17. They make a HUGE difference compared with the noisy OEM tires. Your new Av will ride as quietly as the old XLS with these. I was also bothered by the road noise until I switched to the Turanza LS-V's - I have the 225-55-17 because I didn't want to risk a harsher ride with the lower aspect ratio 225-50-17.
Going to the Toyota dealer tomorrow to take a look at my idiosyncratic slushbox... I don't expect much though - probably just a lot more slush from the dealer...

captain2

and you're right, Buick is about the only 'US' brand that consistently ranks up there with the Japanese makes. Buick only produces 2 cars these days, the LaCrosse and Lucerne, and they are both new models likely subject to some of the same teething pains that Toyota has had with the Avalon. The new Avalon does rank lower (in reliability) than the earlier Camry related cars, and Toyota's other models - as could be expected. Buying a first year issue of any vehicle (including Buick and Toyota)- not generally a good idea from a reliability standpoint.

captain2

did you switch out the Michelins? If this is the case, I find this interesting - because, even in my Touring (also Michelins) find the road noise remarkably subdued. My wife's Altima 3.5 which is certainly much noisier than any Avalon, replaced the OE Bridgestones EL42 with Hydroedges (same tire size) with some noise reduction. Maybe the old ears not what they used to be. Guess you'll have me taking a look at the LSVs when the time comes - must be a different tire.

pat

I think the same thing could be said about someone posting and reposting how wonderful they think their car is and if you have not seen that here, yes, you have "just missed it."

I'm not going to debate this here. If you want to continue this conversation, feel free to email me. Otherwise, please let me deal with posts that are out of line. If you do not feel a post is appropriate, the best thing to do is just skip on by it.

If you feel it requires intervention, just drop me an email - I'll be glad to review it. Please do not take it upon yourself to tell others what may or may not be posted.

Thanks.

alan_s

Hey Captain...
I had the Bridgestone Turanza EL400 as OEM tires on my XLS. The EL400 is a relatively new tire for Bridgestone and very noisy. I asked the dealer to switch them out for the Michelins off their demo, after I had the car a day and 20 miles, and they flatly refused. Called Toyota Corp and they laughed in my face. This is service? They had my money by then...
Anyway, the LS-V is a very different tire than the Turanza LS-V and is a top-rate tire on tirerack.com. I wish tire manufacturers wouldn't use the same name for very different tires - it gets confusing.
I had the LS on my '02 Av and have them on my wife's Sienna. VERY QUIET riding tire although I would like it to be a little softer riding. It is more sporty than boulevard...

tmeframe

I became enamored with the Lucerne when I saw it at the Dallas Auto Show, and then the Texas State Fair.

I have an Avalon, but took the Endeavor to test-drive the Lucerne. I was able to drive the V6. You'll definitely feel the lower horsepower and weight of the car. The Lucerne is 6 inches longer than the Avalon, and is a comparable product. The only thing that could stop my purchase besides the fact that I have and love my Avalon is the reliability of GM products. If Toyota can have significant teething problems on a new model like the Avalon, I don't even want to ponder the same with a GM car.

Steve

captain2

good to know about the LS-V's, after my experience with the EL42s on the wife's car, never considered a different Bridgestone tire. Those EL400s you didn't like, very poorly rated - it surprises me that Toyota would put them on a car so renowned for ride and quiet. Am happy with the MXVs on my Touring, but it sure looks like the LS-Vs have 'em beat. Maybe another year away for me, maybe 30k, tires lose effectiveness well before the treadwear bars show.

captain2

GM does have teething problems all the time, look up first year stats on about anything with a Cadillac nameplate, Chevy, and Pontiac. And that subpar reliability (relative to the Japanese brands) will continue through later issues. Look through CRs best bets, you will see a predominance of Japanese mfgrs. -and some Buicks.
Even though many of these GM cars are pretty much identical mechanically, Buick seems to do a better job with assembly or something. From what I understand, the Lucerne to get is the one with that 275hp V8, taking care of the power shortage and a generally well thought of engine. V8s always a American strength, doing a smooth powerful V6, or even a solid 4 banger - not nearly as well.

alan_s

I heard that the MXV's wear pretty quick on the new Av. I guess any tire would with all that power and weight up front. The only Bridgestone tire I like is the LS series. All the other Bridgestones seem to ride a bit too hard and sporty for me. Just a word of caution though - the LS-V 225's don't fit in the spare wheel well unless partially deflated. I carry around a portable inflator anyway.
'Later.

sgchili

I've had my Avalon for 10 days. I have driven roughly 50% city, 50% highway.

I have not had more than 20.5 MPG on any trip yet. It has been snowy here in Ohio and I'm thinking I need to be patient. Has anyone else experienced either stretches of low mileage, or low mileage out of the gate like this?

imidazol97

>LaCrosse and Lucerne,

The ranking was earned when they had Century, Regal, LeSabre, and ParkAve (Was Rendevouz included since it's a truck?). Hopefully they've improved which they would have to do to keep up.

I fully agree that a new model is touch and go. There are things that will be changed even midyear by the factory as they learn. Sort of like Beta testing for software. It's fun but it's touchy.

alan_s

I know this is a bit off-topic but it is almost amusing... makes programming the Avalon door locks seem like child's play.

I read this in Automobile Magazine "How to switch off VSC on a Lexus GS430". Needs to be done within 30 seconds.

1. Make sure the car is in Park and the parking brake is disengaged before you start the car.
2. Start the engine.
3. Engage the parking brake.
4. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.
5. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.
6. Disengage the parking brake.
7. Fully depress and hold down the brake pedal.
8. Engage the parking brake, then disengage it (while holding down the brake pedal).
9. Engage the parking brake, then disengage it (while holding down the brake pedal).
10. Release the brake pedal.
11. Engage the parking brake.
12. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.
13. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.

When “Check VSC” is displayed in the multifunction display along with the “Trac-off” icon indicator, you’ll know that you have successfully completed the procedure.

Lexus must have consulted with Microsoft on this one!
I guess if you miss a step, the whole car explodes just in case.

blackdog4

I recently read that one of the Lexus models has an all wheel drive option. As engine and drive train components of the small Lexus have been shared with the Avalon in the past, have any of you car enthusiasts seen any rumors about AWD in future Avalons?

mackabee

Good thing the forums went "Read only" as I was just about to add another "oil" related post to this thread.
Mackabee

jackerussel

sgchili;

I have averaged 28-29, until the icy cold weather hit. Now averaging around 23. Have you had any problems with your wipers icing up? Have had my 2006 since Sept. and am happy to report all systems are a go, other than the wipers freezing up during subzero temperatures mixed with snow.

Regards

Jack

alan_s

blackdog4:
I doubt it. Even though the V6 engines are shared with the Avalon, the Lexus IS and GS models are rear wheel drive platforms with longitudinal mounted engines. As you probably know, the Avalon is a FWD platform with a transverse engine. This configuration does not lend itself easily to AWD adaption and would require different componentary than used on the Lexus models.
... and imagine how many programming steps it would take to turn AWD off!!!

havalongavalon

Also, think of having a rear driveshaft protruding through the flat floor. And it would increase weight, reduce acceleration, reduce mileage. Nope. I don't think so, either.

havalongavalon

denali1

stmlo: Thanks for your reply. You make some really good points. I would hate to lose the ability to haul larger items by not having an SUV. Of course the mpg is an issue, as you point out with your Explorer. I wasn't aware the RAV 4 was larger. Very interesting, and worth looking at.
It is true that reported AV problems here are in the minority, and for the most part, they seem mostly minor.
BTW, your Bliz Pearl is an awesome color. Mine is silver pine mica, and is very attractive....though your color would have been my first choice had it been available.

imidazol97

But they're not read only?... am I missing something?

ange

There is an easier way to switch the VSC on-off. Check the 2006 Dodge Diplomat--push a button on the dash . ange1

alan_s

Why would you do that when all you have to do is go through 13 easy to remember steps in 30 seconds?

tmeframe

I'd rather go through the 13 steps than own a Dodge anything.

Steve

captain2

I thought you had mentioned that you had a pending trip to your friendly dealer to get, if I recall, some slush about your slush. Did they do anything for you?
Although I can honestly say that I have not experienced the same tranny control issues you have, I also share some concerns about all this electronic/computer stuff (maybe the wrong word) that has made it into our Avs.

alan_s

Captain, just got back from the dealer. I took the Av to another dealer not the second rate "outfit" I bought it from.
Anyway, they didn't find any problem but they reset the transmission computer. They explained that if the car is used in a lot of stop and go traffic or driven passively, the computer decides that the driver is not "aggressive" and it develops a conservative shift pattern which makes the transmission very reluctant to upshift and affects engine response - the perceived hesitation.
It was much more responsive driving it home after setting to default. I guess I'll have to burn some rubber now and then to wake the flipping transmission computer up and get it to realize that I'm not really an old granny.

mstem

I just wanted to state that I am having a rather jolly good time training my '06 Avalon Limited's transmission to be "agressive!"

Mike

captain2

sorry situation that we have to reset computers to get a car to operate right. Guess your explanation is why I haven't experienced similar problems - all that power and the grin factor - even though I do at least look like a granny.
did they say anything thing about 'retraining' as a fix and/or is it possible for a user 'reboot' as opposed to the dealer reset? you had better be careful though, those new tires of yours will be left behind you.
really do think that this is akin to that fabulous (and frequent) Windows message 'Windows has encountered a problem, cannot continue, and must quit this application'. After a little reading up on these 'drive-by-wire' systems, it seems that problems like this are not unique to the Avalon, and will become 'standard' - the price we pay for the 'safety' systems that the market seemingly wants. Price of progress?

mem4

Just wait and see what your gas mileage drops to as you lead foot around town.

tmeframe

I've been watching my gas mileage very closely.

On the "leadfoot" method - Average 20.5 MPG
On the "save the planet" method - Average 23.5 MPG

Not a whole lot of difference. On the lead plan, my starts tend to be sorta jack-rabbit, with strong stops. On the save plan (when gas was over $3 per gallon), I just sorta slowly build speed, with well-planned stops.

Interestingly boring results.

Steve

endovit

Computer on my 06 Avalon says 22 mpg normally after the wife has driven it - mostly in town. When I get the chance behind the wheel (rarely), its mostly interstate driving and goes up. I bought mine out of town and had to drive home 4 hours. During that first trip - with only about 1 mile on the car, we got 30mph - all interstate driving with the AC on during summer. Computer said 30 mph and when I filled it up - same result.

captain2

would think that you must do mostly around town and/or city driving - your mileage seems low - I end up 27-28 but at a 70% or so highway mix. There is an interesting article in CR, a survey of gas mileages compared to EPA ratings finding that on the City side ratings were almost universally way high (to the tune of 30-50%) for almost all cars. EPA highway, however, mostly accurate. Left to city driving only, the Avalon may have trouble getting above 20.

alto

i average use to average 13.9-14.3 in the city while i was driving slow breakin it in in the city now i'm more like 12.9-13.3 drivin regular. Highest i got on the highway was 33.9mpg but that will never happen again 50 mphs to slow.

alto

lead foot for me drops down to 7-8.0mpg

alan_s

I asked the dealer and no user reset is available. Disconnecting the battery apparently won't cause the transmission computer to lose it's memory. Either need the dealer to enter into enhanced mode on the OBDII diagnostics and reset, or "drive aggressively" for a while so that it relearns your driving behavior. I guess now we'll know that when we see a crazed lunatic all over the road driving an Avalon, we'll know that it is not a case of Road Rage but merely an attempt to reset the computer.
BTW I drove a new '06 Sienna yesterday and it's transmission was worse than the Avalon's. There was so much lag time between pressing the throttle and the car moving it was horrible to drive. The engine would rev and the tranny had "slip" much more than the Avalon. It felt very sloppy and non-responsive. Yuk. Our '02 Sienna dives much better than the new one.
This is not progress!

sgchili

I want to take a survey of JBL Synthesis owners...

Do you have a "favorite" combination of settings to produce what you consider the optimal sound combination?

What's yours? Mine is..

Bass 4
Center-Mid 4
Treble 5
Fader R-3 (to get fuller surround-sound effect)
Balance 0

I would be interested to try other combinations without driving off the road experimenting too much. What combinations have you found?

Steve

justgreat47

the reset or reboot of the "intelligent" transmission in the avalon and lots of other cars is simply removing the one of the battery terminals for a few seconds and then re-connect. the memory for the tranny is volatile.

the use of drive by wire is not for safety but for meeting federal or local emmissions requirments, the software for drivetrain computer determines (within certain limits) how much gas it will allow you to apply under certain conditons such as engine temp, engine load...lots of paramters being monitored by the computer; all in the name of lower emmissions.

the problems with the "smart' transmissions is dependent on the driving "style" of the driver and the type of driving that we do: stop and go versus hiway, quick starts versus slower launches...all these factors contributre to how the transmission will react and perform.

some months back one the female owners of an avalon with the tranny issues discovered that she can defeat the mapping software simply by putting the gear selector into 4th gear and when she needed the extra cog, she simply shifted into 5th. of course, when she got off the interstate, she would have to drop back to 4th to negate the mapping issues...but that's an easy and quick solution to a problem, that for some drivers, will NOT go away...no matter what dealer you take it to. the only real "fix" will be much greater complexity to the software mapping which would accomodate a greater number of variations in driving styles.

this is progress.

captain2

I will certainly grant you that without the engine computers we don't have our 280 hp or, for that matter, the clean burning engines. Routing everything through a 'mastermind', however stupid, is also about the only way that these new safety systems (VSC for example) can work. How else can we slowing throttle/trans responses, shoot sume juice to specific brakes, slow steering responses etc. without drive-by-wire? I just had a near miss that I am convinced that my (no VSC) Avalon would not been able to avoid with that electronic interference. The fact is, that these systems do interevene at some level below the car's actually dynamic capabilites. From my perspective, these systems are well short of perfected, can actually be dangerous and I guess you would have to pry my cold dead toes off my accelerator before I let some computer make driving decisions for me.

wwest

There is no automotive computer that "remembers" more than the past three minutes of the driver's "style" and even that memory is erased, in preparation for the next victom, when the ignition is turned off.

How else do you suppose the rental fleet could work?

06graylimited

I felt like adding my comments regarding the vehicle stability control on my 2006 Limited. Although I have not had the opportunity to "test" the VSC on my new Avalon, I had the VSC on my 2002 Avalon. One Summer evening, someone decided to cross 4 lanes of highway traffic at 55 - 60 MPH, without looking of course. I made a panic manuever which is still frightening to recall. I am convinced that the VSC helped me to keep my car in control far better than I could have done on my own. I said to myself after my heart slowed down "it does EXACTLY what it says it will do!" I consider myself an experienced and careful driver (48 year old), but I welcome "computer intervention".

ange

Has anyone had their dealer reprogram the navigation system. My system tried to take me over a zig zag route about 50 miles out of my way on a 25 mile trip. My wife, with a much lower type a level than me, told me to turn the darn thing off. The wrong directions were a bit annoying.

My dealer tells me they will reprogram the unit. I hope they use the 2006 version.

johndjr

What my wife and I have found to please us is "ON' or "OFF", volume set at 25 and one of our old tapes or CDs of our old music.
But then, we are both very hard of hearing. Comes from being married 53 years and learning to tune each other out.
We have the Park Pilot to warn us when backing up. I was going to [non-permissible content removed] that it didn't work---then my wife says she hears it just fine. I haven't heard it yet, not even with my hearing aids in. Just that freq. that jet pilots become deaf to.

alan_s

justgreat:
Thanks for your interesting response. I don't see why more software patterns are even required to accomodate variations in driving styles. Factory default seems to work just fine and the adjusted mappings over time only make things worse. I can't see any advantage whatsoever to having complex systems and multiple patterns that just add expense and get in the way, and don't have any real advantage over a conventional system.
I have driven the Maxima and the Accord which also have drive-by-wire systems and sophisticated transmission logics, and their engineers seem to have done a far better job at implementing a seamless system. They don't exhibit these software-induced anomolies.
Perhaps Toyota should add a $5 "Off" button for those of us who want it to stay at factory default.
I will try disconnecting the battery if the problem reoccurs, and then reset the window and moonroof computers per the manual - yet another layer of unnecessary complexity.

regis

"I am convinced that the VSC helped me to keep my car in control far better than I could have done on my own."

I was starting to believe I was the only one . . . I had a similar experience with my previous 00 Avalon four years ago. During a snow storm and invisible "black ice" conditions, cars all around me were spinning out of control resulting in multi-crashes. I hit my brakes and we continued in a perfect straight line. I'm convinced my VSC saved us that day.

hylyner

Quote: "have driven the Maxima and the Accord which also have drive-by-wire systems and sophisticated transmission logics, and their engineers seem to have done a far better job at implementing a seamless system. They don't exhibit these software-induced anomolies." Unquote.

WRONG!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!! One or two test drives by one admittedly biased individual is by no means indicative of anything, and cannot support those kinds of condemnations.

Search both Maxima and Accord forums for hundreds of references to DBW anomalies. Complaints similar to those you speak of are common to all DBW equipped makes and models.
Not only that, but Honda is noted for transmission problems/failures in general over the past 10 years. Warranty periods were extended to 100K miles following huge numbers of tranny failures.

havalongavalon

hylyner, on another occasion I came to your rescue, but I can't this time.

You said, "Search both Maxima and Accord forums for hundreds of references to DBW anomalies."

Since transmission hesitation is our issue here, I did a search for "hesitation" in the three forums and found:

200 entries out of 10662 for Avalon (200 is the cap, there are likely many more),
76 entries out of 18344 for Accord, and
44 entries out of 8754 for Maxima.

And many of those Accord and Maxima entries actually read ",,,I would not hesitate..." or "...don't hesitate..."

havalong

hylyner

Thanks much for the last one, but there's no need for you to come to my rescue this time. I searched the "Maintenance and Repair" forum plus this one, and used a variety of search terms in addition to just "hesitation". That way, a whole lot more related info can be found. It's a common topic. I also looked at a couple of other manufacturers. It's discussed there too.
DBW transmission and electronic throttle control systms are universally described as "different" by many reports in a good many forums in addition to this one.
Toyota seems to be hit on more than most, but for some peculiar reason, it also seems it's mostly the same people commenting on it in those Toyota forums. The only reason I can think of for that anomaly is that there must be a few individuals who have it in for Toyota and are more vocal than most. Then again, competitive strategies get pretty nasty sometimes, and when you're on the top of the heap, everybody else is after your butt.